Origin of antagonistic love?

I don't know what you mean, exactly. Could you expand on that? Give an example or two?

The trope of "people fight all the time, must mean they're in love" is as old as Shakespeare's Beatrice and Benedict.

I can't think of any examples myself (maybe because my brain has already gone to bed), and I haven't read any of the ones you've cited. But seeing as inappropriate loves are a pretty common human experience, it just doesn't seem all that surprising that it makes it into books.

Oh wait, how about Wuthering Heights? I doubt that was the first example, mind you, but at least it puts it back a ways.

Samson and Delilah.

Or maybe, earlier, Adam and Eve.

caw

JJM said:

Never read Wuthering Heights, hope I never do.

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If you've missed reading the Brontes, then you've missed some of the most subtle and yet dramatic writing in the English language. If you write anything with action, despair, or fear going on in it, then you owe it to yourself to read Wuthering Heights at the very least, but Jane Eyre and The Tenant of Wildfell Hall would do you well, too.

Gothic Romance is after all the parent of sword and sorcery, and the Brontes did Gothic Romance like none others. In fact, you may have missed the beginnings of "antagonistic romance" right there, although we will probably get an argument from the Jane Austen clique regarding Pride & Prejudice on that score - another one I'd guess you haven't read, but the story is so compelling, I would certainly recommend it to you.

And if you're going to read Jane Austen, go for the heavy Gothic and fun, fun, fun in Northanger Abbey.

These books might seem like they are out of your genre, but so many literay devices and sound ideas are trans-genre. So if you are looking for the roots of a romantic device, I recommend digging in the fields of the Romantic writers.

JJM said:

Never read Wuthering Heights, hope I never do.

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That's a bit close-minded, don't you think? Also, Kate Thornton has a point.

Wuthering Heights, etc, isn't for everyone. Personally, I can't stand that style of writing. I've attempted WH, I've read Jane Eyre (which I almost liked), and frankly if I don't read anything of that style again, I won't feel like I've missed anything.

(But, I did at least try.)

Kudos to you, dempsey, for trying. I know it's not for everyone, and neither is Shakespeare, Tolkein, or Carl Hiassen, but I think you gotta be familiar with writers and writing (all styles) if you wanna be one.

Kate Thornton said:

Gothic Romance is after all the parent of sword and sorcery, and the Brontes did Gothic Romance like none others.

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Really? I LOVE Sword and Sorcery! So this Wuthering Heights, it's full of wizards and demons and sword fights?

Shadow_Ferret said:

Really? I LOVE Sword and Sorcery! So this Wuthering Heights, it's full of wizards and demons and sword fights?

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Yes, and the hero is a big orange cat.

Oh. That Garfield? Bah.

JJM said:

Is there a piece of literature or some other influence that can be pinpointed for being the start or origin of having the/a protagonist having a relationship with an antagonist? Or vice-versa?
I was just wondering after I read D. Gray Man again.

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Pretty much old as time, I think. But the oldest example I can think of off the top of my head is Shakespeare - The Taming of the Shrew - though I'm sure the concept of that thin line between love and hate predates even Shakespeare.


~suki

JJM said:

Then I had to read Sister Carrie for a class...my hatred for non-fiction is at an all time high at the moment

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Sister Carrie is fiction.

"Non-fiction" is about stuff that actually occurred, like a biography of Abraham Lincoln.

JJM said:

Is there a piece of literature or some other influence that can be pinpointed for being the start or origin of having the/a protagonist having a relationship with an antagonist? Or vice-versa?
I was just wondering after I read D. Gray Man again.

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In The Odyssey Odysseus slept with both Calypso and Circe. I don't know how much that counts as a relationship, since it was kind of just the goddesses demanding it and him not really having much recourse to refuse. Though, I'm not sure how much he really wanted to refuse...

Maybe someone else with a better memory will know.

Yes, I wouldn't count the Odysseus stuff as 'love' so much, but the legend of Theseus and Hippolyta definitely qualifies (at least the version where Theseus and Heracles defeat Hippolyta and her Amazons in battle, Theseus marries Hippolyta, and she is heartbroken when he dumps her for Phaedra).

So, yeah, thousands of years old.

I'm sorry I can't think of an older example but a modern one (about Stockholm Syndrome) is "The Effect of Living Backwards" by Heidi Julavits.