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AZ_Dawn
11-05-2009, 02:01 AM
I'm double-checking my name lists and sooner or later I'll get to the Scottish names. I remember that one of the surnames (Isbister, I think) was either native to the Shetland Islands or very common there, but fairly rare in Scotland Scotland. That brings up a good question. For purposes of giving characters obviously Scottish names, would Shetland Islanders been considered Scotsmen. What about Orkney Islanders or any other outlying islands that I haven't thought about? If they are considered Scotman for naming purposes, should I warn that the names are rare outside those islands? Thanks!

waylander
11-05-2009, 03:33 AM
Shetland belonged to Norway for a long time and my guess is that they feel themselves to be Shetlanders first and Scottish second.
The Western Isles are very definitely Scottish - still Gaelic speaking

Sarpedon
11-05-2009, 03:35 AM
Oh no! Not another "No True Scotsman" argument!

eyeblink
11-05-2009, 04:10 AM
I've been to Shetland a few times - there's a definite sense that they feel themselves as much Vikings as Scots. Administratively Shetland and Orkney are certainly part of Scotland. Lerwick, the main town, is a quite busy port, but if you move northwards, especially to some of the smaller islands, you might find more enclosed communities. Some of the smaller islands have populations in double figures.

The word for people from Orkney, by the way, is "Orcadians".

I wouldn't have thought you'd have a problem - people from both islands have been known to travel south, to Glasgow or Edinburgh, say, or even London. (To give you some idea of distance, Milan, Italy, is nearer to London than Lerwick, Shetland.) If someone has an unusual surname, it might provoke comment but most people probably wouldn't immediately recognise it as Shetlander or Orcadian. Another one you could use is Linklater - as in the novelist Eric Linklater, born in Wales but of an Orcadian father. He lived in the islands for many years.

AZ_Dawn
11-05-2009, 04:40 AM
Thanks, guys!

Oh no! Not another "No True Scotsman" argument!
:o Sorry, didn't realize I was about to open a can of worms here. I was just wondering if they would be considered Scotsmen for naming purposes. Would their names be considered Scottish or would they merit a list of their own? Hope that clears things up.



Shetland belonged to Norway for a long time and my guess is that they feel themselves to be Shetlanders first and Scottish second.


So does that mean my shelties barked with a Norwegian accent? ;)



The Western Isles are very definitely Scottish - still Gaelic speaking

Helps to know that.



I wouldn't have thought you'd have a problem - people from both islands have been known to travel south, to Glasgow or Edinburgh, say, or even London. (To give you some idea of distance, Milan, Italy, is nearer to London than Lerwick, Shetland.) If someone has an unusual surname, it might provoke comment but most people probably wouldn't immediately recognise it as Shetlander or Orcadian.

And if somebody did recognize a name as Shetlander or Orcadian they'd just assume the bearer was/had ancesters from there. Got it. :Thumbs:

BigWords
11-05-2009, 06:29 AM
Remember also that once you get out to the islands, accents become much, much thicker, and the dialect is very different to the kind you would hear in Aberdeen, Glasgow or Edinburgh. I can testify that there are islanders who are difficult to understand, even to other Scots ("Can you repeat that... slower please... did you mean...") who are blessed with accents inpenetrable to lowlanders.

pdr
11-05-2009, 11:22 AM
Shetlander friends are definitely Scots second and can relate their lineage back to early Norse sagas, as apparently can most genuine islanders.

girlyswot
11-06-2009, 10:30 PM
There are definitely some surnames which are found on Shetland and Orkney (distinct from each other) which are not commonly known on the mainland. And although some more traditional Scots surnames are found on the islands, they are Scottish and not Shetland or Orcadian.

Sarpedon
11-06-2009, 10:41 PM
Don't feel bad AZ, it was just one of the more obscure jokes I pepper these forums with.

IanMorrison
11-06-2009, 11:35 PM
:o Sorry, didn't realize I was about to open a can of worms here. I was just wondering if they would be considered Scotsmen for naming purposes. Would their names be considered Scottish or would they merit a list of their own? Hope that clears things up.

Don't worry, he was joking. The "No true scotsman" argument he was referring to is a type of logical fallacy, not anything related to your question. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

AZ_Dawn
11-07-2009, 12:00 AM
Thanks again, guys!


Remember also that once you get out to the islands, accents become much, much thicker, and the dialect is very different to the kind you would hear in Aberdeen, Glasgow or Edinburgh. I can testify that there are islanders who are difficult to understand, even to other Scots ("Can you repeat that... slower please... did you mean...") who are blessed with accents inpenetrable to lowlanders.
Wasn't thinking about accents, but I'll keep that in mind for just in case.



Shetlander friends are definitely Scots second and can relate their lineage back to early Norse sagas, as apparently can most genuine islanders.



There are definitely some surnames which are found on Shetland and Orkney (distinct from each other) which are not commonly known on the mainland. And although some more traditional Scots surnames are found on the islands, they are Scottish and not Shetland or Orcadian.

So beware the blatantly Norse names and double-check the birthplace of anyone without a Mac attatched to their names?



Don't feel bad AZ, it was just one of the more obscure jokes I pepper these forums with.



Don't worry, he was joking. The "No true scotsman" argument he was referring to is a type of logical fallacy, not anything related to your question. :)

I thought so, but I've only been here for a few years, and there might've been a big True Scotsman Drama that I hadn't know about. Better safe than sorry. (Where's a sweat-wiping smilie when you need one? :) )

RobinGBrown
11-09-2009, 02:10 PM
Rational Wiki: No True Scotsman

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/No_True_Scotsman