PDA

View Full Version : Firearms Questions



quixote100104
11-01-2009, 09:30 AM
Greetings :-),

1) Back when they were in production (1968-84), would it have been possible to produce a conversion kit to allow an HK4 to fire 9x18mm ammunition?

2) In that same period, assuming someone had the idea and resources, is there any practical reason why a J-frame version of the Medusa revolver couldn't have been produced?

3) Does anyone out there have any solid information on when and how Paris Theodore's original ASP pistol was marketed? I've only been able to find sketchy information on it that sort of implies that availibility was sharply limited and the weapon was introduced in the 60s or 70s.

Thanks :-),

jeseymour
11-02-2009, 08:24 PM
To 1 & 2, it's your book, go ahead and do what you want. Just explain it well enough to make it plausible. For 3, I assume you've seen the wikipedia article? Have you read the books and magazines referenced in that article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Theodore

Sorry I can't be of more help, that Paris Theodore guy looks fascinating.

Smiling Ted
11-02-2009, 11:05 PM
When it comes to questions like this, my recommendation is always "Go To The Source!"
One of Theodore's kids (Paris Kain) is a documentary filmmaker - they're not hard to find or contact. And Heckler & Koch would be the place to go for the other questions.

The best part about going to the original people is that they will always come up with even more info than you expected - fascinating stuff that you'll be able to use.

Summonere
11-02-2009, 11:40 PM
1) Back when they were in production (1968-84), would it have been possible to produce a conversion kit to allow an HK4 to fire 9x18mm ammunition?

This may be a yes or no kinda answer.

On the “No” side:

I suspect not, at least not as the pistol was originally conceived. The “4” of the HK4 designation meant that the pistol could be converted readily to any of 4 calibers, from .22 LR to .25 ACP to .32 ACP to .380 ACP, simply by swapping magazines, barrels, and the attendant recoil springs wound around those barrels. If it had been possible to fit yet another caliber in there, HK would have called the pistol the HK5, instead.

That design criteria in mind, I suspect that the operating pressures of the 9x18 were too high to fit a barrel of sufficient strength (and consequent diameter) into the slide. The 9x17 operates at a maximum pressure of about 21,500 psi, while the 9x18 operates at about 24,100. Building a pistol to accommodate that extra 2,600psi may have put it beyond the intended size and role specifications. Additionally, the extra 1mm case length may have been a factor, too, if the maximum case length differences (0.68 for .380 and .713 for 9x18) meant having to cut an ejection port wide enough that the change in slide mass created timing or other reliability problems. (Interestingly enough, the maximum overall cartridge length of the .380 and the 9x18 are the same, at least according to Speer, so fitting rounds into the grip would not have been a problem.)

On the “Yes” side:

If the kit completely replaced the upper and could be made to fit the lower receiver, sure, I don't see why it couldn't work.



2. In that same period, assuming someone had the idea and resources, is there any practical reason why a J-frame version of the Medusa revolver couldn't have been produced?

Don't see why not. If sufficient resources are available, “practicality” is rarely a consideration. Both are capable of firing .357 Magnum and smaller ammunition, and the operational heart of the design is largely in the cylinder and extractor, which at first glance looks like pretty normal cylinder lockup.


3. Does anyone out there have any solid information on when and how Paris Theodore's original ASP pistol was marketed? I've only been able to find sketchy information on it that sort of implies that availibility was sharply limited and the weapon was introduced in the 60s or 70s.

Nope. Sorry. But there's a little information about it here

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg147-e.htm

which states that from 1982 to 1983 only about 250 to 300 of them were sold on the American market by Armament Systems and Procedures company. In its original trim, though, the pistol wasn't marketed but rather developed specifically for use by those in clandestine services.

hammerklavier
11-03-2009, 06:34 AM
For #1, I think it would work. The 9x18 is about a 9.2 mm bullet, while the .380 (9x17) is right at 9mm. Of course the chamber sizes are different. So you would need to replace the barrel. Magazine and all else would be the same. Case in point. Makarovs (9x18) can be converted to .380 (and back again) by only changing the barrel. Even the recoil spring remains the same. Unless I'm missing something about the HK4 design, I would think the increase in pressure would be handled in the new barrel and chamber (as they are one piece, right)?