How much material would I need to find an agent?

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Carole

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I am in the process of writing my first nonfiction book and after all these years I suddenly have the urge to continue after this one is complete.

For years I pondered the idea of being a writer for a living, so to speak, but never persued it. I do not have a formal education besides a smattering of college, but I have always been complimented on things I have written. Sometimes it is just a friend who picks up a journal of mine with random thoughts who asks me this question, and sometimes it comes after my husband passes a short story of mine around at work. I hear the same thing time and again: Why on earth don't you do this for a living?

I have been doing a bit of research and the first thing I have learned is that most publishers I have found require that I have an agent. I do not know anything of the protocol in regard to finding an agent, so I am wondering what I would need. It seems that there are many rules regarding what I would need to have ready to present and also how to go about contacting an agent. I am completely clueless and don't want to shoot myself in the foot before I have a chance to begin.

Can anyone offer suggestions?

Thank you,
~~Carole
 

Cathy C

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Well, if you have a "smattering of college" then you graduated high school, correct? Congratulations! You have a "formal education!" That's all I have, and am currently writing for a living (albeit not a great living at the moment. But it's an adequate beginning.)

To get an agent at this stage, you need a book --- a whole, completed manuscript so the editor can see that you know your subject and have a solid beginning, with research and chapters and a suitable ending.

BIC, Carole. (That means, Butt in Chair.) Sit down and write, and finding an agent will follow when you're done with your brilliant work! :)

Good luck!
 

Jamesaritchie

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Agent

For fiction, you need a completed, polished novel. For nonfiction, however, you need a good book proposal. The actual book does not have to be written before you contact an agent.

You need to look around and find some articles on how to write a good book proposal. Or better, buy a book on the subject. Writer's Digest Books did have at least a couple on the subject. Your local librray might also have such a book. Mine has at least three.
 

Carole

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Cathy C, here you are again to help! Thanks so much! Actually, you took my intent out of my words. I wasn't clear, but you got my meaning anyway.

I am working on that nonfiction piece we spoke of before...LAWD how that one is turning into a Behemoth, and a scary one at that. New *issues* have arisen with that company and now I have to find out how to incorporate that into all my other thoughts, and I am almost getting to the point where I am scared to finish it! Gonna be looking over my shoulder, I fear. BUT, I posted this time about writing fiction.

The more I write, the more I remember just how I love to write! I have been thinking about digging up old half-finished fiction I have had for years and getting rolling with them again. Just what I need. Another project! I do like the BIC thing. Hubby laughs and tells me he is going to chain me to my desk sometimes. He laughs because I practically live at my desk as it is.

I am really encouraged hearing that I am not alone in not finishing college. Marriage and babies do that sometimes.

Jamesaritchie, thank you for your thoughts. When you say a completed, polished novel, that brings another question to mind. I have read about sending your work to a third party editing service to have them, for a fee, rework your finished book before submitting it to an agent or a publisher. I have heard that this is a good idea, particularly if you have never been published. What do you think about this? Is it really necessary?

~~Carole :)
 

Cathy C

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I'm not a huge fan of paid editing services, although I know that many on the forum have both used the services, and provide such services. What you have to consider is, if you have to pay someone to edit the book to begin with, what are you going to do when your edit letter comes from the publisher? Pay someone another fee to make those edits too?

Really, it's best to learn how to edit your own work right out of the gate, because you'll be expected to do so multiple times before it sees print. For now, there are critique groups all over that will help you with this for free.

See, while an editor at the publisher does indeed edit, they're closer to comments that YOU'RE responsible for turning into text. An edit would look something like:

"The scene in the coffeeroom doesn't really work. The fight between the hero and villain doesn't provide enough motivation for the villian to later trash his car."

You would then have to go back into that five pages in the manuscript and cut it out and make that scene stronger, or make the fight for a different reason or have it become physical, etc. See what I mean?

Yeah, you can have it polished for a fee, but NO book will actually appear on the shelf as it did in the original manuscript. Just a thought... ;)
 
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Jamesaritchie

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Editors

I think paid editors are almost always a horribe idea, despit ethe fact that I do one or two such jobs each year. But I only do such jobs for people I know, and for novels that are already very, very good, and I charge very little, as such things go. And I always try to talk the person out of it.

The kind of editing you pay for is also the kind of editing that it's essential for a writer to be able to do himself. Editing is part of writing. Grammar, punctuation, storyline, character development, etc., are all part of good writing. Hiring these things done is just not smart, and in all truth, not things agents or publishers want to see writers do.

Publishers need writers who can do these things themselves, not writers who have to run off to another editor everytime something needs done.

The track record of fee edited novels is simply horrible, and with good reason. . . No editor can turn an unpublishable novel into a publishable novel, and a publishable novel doesn't need the services of a paid editor.

In my oppinion, using a paid editor is not only the lazy way out, it also means the writer isn't going to learn the things he needs to know in order to be a good writer.

I've seen an awful ot of manuscripts over the years that were edited in such a manner, and I've never yet seen a single one helped to any degree at all. Those that went on to success were just as good before the paid edit as after. The edit was justed wasted money on the writer's part. Those that were bad before the edit were just as bad after.

If you book is anywhere close to professional quality, any good agent, or any editor emplyed by a publisher, will help you bring it up to speed. If a book isn;t near professional quality, all the paid editors in the world can't help it.

It's crucial that a writer learn how to do all these things for himself. That's what good writing is. You can't hire grammar or punctuation done because without having a grasp of these things yourself, whatever you write simply isn't going to say what it is you want it to say, so fixing these things after the fact isn't going to make a difference in publishability.

You can't hire storyline and character development done because without being able to do these things yourself you have no story and no good characters.

The things a paid editor can do well, such as pointing out plot holes, spotting typos, etc., are things you can either do yourself, or can have beta readers do for free. The fees most paid editors charge are many, many times higher than can ever be justified by the things they can help you with. And in truth, the things any beta reader, agent, or editor at a publishing house will do for free.

The reason you hear so much about paid editors being a good idea is because there are so many people out there who are willing to take anyone's money, justified or not, and so many new writers who are willing to do anything if they think it means getting published.

A much, much better use of the money is finding a class, or a professional writer, who will teach you how to do all these things for yourself.

If you do put your manuscript in the hands of a paid editor, be extremely selective. Only an insane writer puts his manuscript in the hands of an amateur. And an amateur is anyone who hasn't been an editor for a major publisher, or who hasn't sold a number of novels himself, or who hasn't been a very successful literary agent.
 

Carole

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Very good. This is valuable information! As an unpublished writer, I am trying to take it all in and learn quickly. I hadn't even thought about paying someone else to edit for me until I read about it while researching. I totally agree that these are skills I must possess on my own.

My mother was a manual proofreader for a small newspaper for years, and she pounded grammar and punctuation into my head. Actually, she still does to this very day! Invariably she will red-pen any letter I write her. It is a joke at this point. Being raised in Southern West Virginia, it was very important to her that her children have a good grasp of communication skills, spoken and written. "My children are going to be educated!", she told me for years.

While I can't even begin to say that I have a command of the English language, I believe I can learn what I don't already know. And I agree. I wouldn't want it any other way!

~~Carole :)
 
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