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Zoombie
10-28-2009, 03:31 PM
So...spoiler warning. Huge huge huge spoiler warnings

















A video was leaked recently, then yanked off by Activision. I saw it...and...I really wish I hadn't.

There is a level, fairly early on (possibly the first level) in COD: Modern Warfare 2. You play as what appears to be a terrorist. You walk into a crowded airport with a machine gun.

And...you...shoot people. And you keep shooting people until you get to the exit of the airport, wherein you yourself get shot and die. Presumably, the game goes on to let you play as the guys hunting down the other terrorists.

Reactions? Is this a bold new step in video game storytelling or...just...disgusting?

I think its both.

MGraybosch
10-28-2009, 06:10 PM
A video was leaked recently, then yanked off by Activision. I saw it...and...I really wish I hadn't.

There is a level, fairly early on (possibly the first level) in COD: Modern Warfare 2. You play as what appears to be a terrorist. You walk into a crowded airport with a machine gun.

MW2 is a FPS, right? So how do you know that the guy who made the video was playing as a terrorist, and not simply trying to prove that you can go nuts and kill civilians if you want to?

BigWords
10-28-2009, 10:56 PM
I remember when a video of a survival game was released onto YouTube. The plot had a plane flying into an office in a skyscraper and the characters had to escape before the building collapsed. Turned out that it was a mod created by someone with too much time on their hands and a sick sense of humor. If a video doesn't have some kind of authority behind it then I automatically dismiss it as a sham.

However, if the footage is actually taken from the game, then I am interested in what they hope to accomplish. Is this a publicity stunt gone horribly wrong? Maybe. Games companies have been known to release really, awfully stupid things in the past...

Zoombie
10-28-2009, 11:22 PM
I found the video.

http://www.gamedat.blogspot.com/

Go here scroll down, the video is in French, but its either one of the *best* hoaxes I have ever seen, or IW has massive massive MASSIVE balls. The exact video is "Modern Warfare 2 leaked single player gameplay w/ sound."

Right now, its the video right after the first video.

Tzalaran
10-28-2009, 11:37 PM
can't watch the video as i'm at work...

but...

iirc, the opening sequence of CoD 4 showed a general or other officer getting shot by a sniper, and you in the car going to meet them. i see having an opening sequence showing the bad guys making a terrorist move as no different than a movie using that to set the stage for the hero to enter.

Video games are entering a time when their graphic capabilities are crossing into the realm of film quality, and their storytelling aspects are starting to become a focal point. This is just another step in their evolution, and the reaction to this may determine the direction video games take in the future.

Zoombie
10-28-2009, 11:57 PM
The reason why this is so...creepy is that it is putting you in the shoes of a terrorist, and YOU control the actions, shooting the innocent civilians as they run screaming from the hail of bullets.

clockwork
10-29-2009, 01:45 AM
It's real:


“Yes it is. The scene establishes the depth of evil and the cold bloodedness of a rogue Russian villain and his unit. By establishing that evil, it adds to the urgency of the player’s mission to stop them.

“Players have the option of skipping over the scene. At the beginning of the game, there are two ‘checkpoints’ where the player is advised that some people may find an upcoming segment disturbing. These checkpoints can’t be disabled.

“Modern Warfare 2 is a fantasy action game designed for intense, realistic game play that mirrors real life conflicts, much like epic, action movies. It is appropriately rated 18 for violent scenes, which means it is intended for those who are 18 and older.”

Linky (http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/700280/Leaked-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2-Footage-Features-Playable-Terrorists.html)

I get it and I don't get it. I'll play it but probably skip it the next time. It won't bother me because I know it's not real but I anticipate the media firestorm with marshmallows and bread on sticks. (I feel like tipping off The Daily Mail myself just to see the headline.)

Zoombie
10-29-2009, 01:50 AM
Wow...

Infinity Ward is both brave and wise...I mean, its pretty amazing that they're getting away with this. The skip option is nice.

clockwork
10-29-2009, 01:57 AM
**COD 4 MW 1 spoilers within**

Yeah. I did love some of the beats they played in the first one that really made you think. I mean, being the leader led to his execution at the beginning is horrible because there's not a damn thing you can do and similarly, the death of the soldier (useless with names) during the nuclear explosion is just effing heartbreaking. I knew he was going to die every time and yet, every time I crawled out of the damn helicopter and hopelessly tried to get as far as I could.

I think it's brave of them but even if it turns out to be a genius move in terms of getting players to emote more with the story and the broader themes, it still simply will not make sense to most people who don't play games. Naturally, it's a pretty nifty way to get the game to make headlines, especially given this leak is coming in the 2 weeks before the game's release but they're not that shallow are they? ;) (I'm not saying it's an outright publicity stunt but I do think it'll help shift a few more copies - even if it's just amongst the morbidly curious. Like me!)

clockwork
11-10-2009, 07:40 PM
**COD MW 2 Spoilers**

So I've played the level. It's not much different to any other level really aside from most of the people don't shoot back. It's certainly not pleasant but I can't help but think it would have been more impactful if you were one of the civilians trying to escape the attack rather than someone perpetrating it. You're unarmed, all you can do is run and hide and then, at the end of the level, you're shot and killed. That would be truly devastating, especially if it was clear there was no chance of survival. As it stands now, it's a lot of flash and noise and it's all a bit... bleh. The ending to the level is a nice twist but, again, more neat than shocking which seems to go against the idea. It is an important plot-point though. I don't know. The game isn't there to remind people terrorism is bad but since IF and Activision have made political/cultural statements about it, I think it could have been done more effectively. VMMV.

Beautiful-looking game though. Can't wait to play the rest.

Ehab.Ahmed
11-10-2009, 09:59 PM
I don't understand what's the fuss is all about. You play as a terrorist the first level? Big deal! It sets the stage for whatever they wanted you to feel. It's no different than movies, imo. Media is just too fixated on games and their bad effects on kids that otherwise have no business playing an M rated game in the first place. Parents can't obviously blame themselves for their obvious lack of parental guidance, and easily dump the blame on video games.
I'm buying this game day 1.

clockwork
11-10-2009, 10:49 PM
Well, no-one's really talking about kids having access to it as being any kind of problem, at least not here. We're discussing the actual content of the game and how agreeable or disagreeable that is to a person's individual tastes. Day 1 is today, by the way.

MGraybosch
11-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Well, no-one's really talking about kids having access to it as being any kind of problem, at least not here.

That's because most of us are grown-ups here, or at least less susceptible to the yellow journalism surrounding video games in the US.

clockwork
11-11-2009, 01:25 AM
Right. Here (UK) it's classified 18. And that's not some pansy-ass European recommended guideline. It's law. You can't buy the thing unless you're 18 so it's clearly not intended for anyone who isn't an adult. Kids will obviously get their hands on it, I sure as hell would if I was 13, but that's not the developer's problem. They've done what they can to restrict access to it so media outrage is largely useless and any debates about content (as in the OP) should be able to play out at an adult level without some journalist yelling, "please think of the children!"

The kids & games debate can be had but it's hard to seriously make a point about it without inevitably coming around to the fact that kids shouldn't be playing it in the first place.

DVGuru
11-11-2009, 07:08 AM
I just played the level and didn't think it was that big of a deal. Maybe it's because so many years of playing Grand Theft Auto has desensitized me to killing innocent civilians in video games.

Ehab.Ahmed
11-11-2009, 07:26 AM
Well, no-one's really talking about kids having access to it as being any kind of problem, at least not here. We're discussing the actual content of the game and how agreeable or disagreeable that is to a person's individual tastes.
Yeah, I know that. I just meant to insinuate that being over the age restriction (18 in most countries) it stops being an issue after years of playing such games and watching movies like Saw. There are some exceptions of course.

Zoombie
11-12-2009, 10:04 AM
I am very disappointed with this game. It does not look astoundingly better than Modern Warfare 1, but it runs like crap on my PC.

Fah.

Zoombie
11-12-2009, 12:11 PM
Well, I've gotten it to work better and still look nice and am enjoying it quite a bit more.

Salis
11-12-2009, 12:55 PM
The reason why this is so...creepy is that it is putting you in the shoes of a terrorist, and YOU control the actions, shooting the innocent civilians as they run screaming from the hail of bullets.

OH DEAR LORD, we might not be able to dismiss them as psychotic murdering soulless monsters then!

Quick, ban this game. No need to understand our enemies.

Zoombie
11-12-2009, 12:57 PM
Um...

How to break this to you...

But you play as a C.I.A operative infiltrating the terrorist cell, and they are portrayed as soulless, psychotic murderous monsters.

Sarpedon
11-12-2009, 06:47 PM
Sounds like a fair description of the CIA. How are the terrorists portrayed?

Jcomp
11-12-2009, 06:52 PM
ZING!

MGraybosch
11-12-2009, 07:03 PM
Sounds like a fair description of the CIA.

OWNED!

LOG
11-12-2009, 07:18 PM
I've seen the 1st level played in person. You're a deep-cover CIA agent while this is happening.
Besides, I don't know what you're complaining about, in GTA you can walk around slaughtering whole cities, same with Mercenary and a few other games. Killing innocent civilians is hardly ground-breaking.
The only difference here is that you're pretending to be a terrorist while you do it, instead of an actual criminal or a mercenary who'll do anything for a buck.

clockwork
11-12-2009, 08:06 PM
There is a difference, IMO. In this game you're directly involved, (and can participate) in a shooting spree which is carried out for the sole purpose of promoting terror. It's not free-play messing around that you come up with yourself, it's a bona fide, self-confessed terrorist act which tonally, visually and thematically, is designed to be as realistic and harrowing as possible. You can do similar things in GTA IV but murdering civilians isn't as central to the level/game or as specifically rendered as it is here (at least on this one level). GTA IV, in my opinion, is also far more cartoonish and goofy. I love that game too but it's hard to take anything perpetrated in that universe seriously.

Understand, I actually don't have any problem with the COD airport level or the game whatsoever, but I do think it's reasonable to suggest that some people might. It's not the notion of killing civilians, it's the realistic portrayal, circumstances and execution (:rolleyes:) that's different. It doesn't deserve media outrage or censorship but it won't be everyone's cup of tea and I can understand why.

Zoombie
11-12-2009, 11:30 PM
Hey, I'm not complaining, I found the level incredibly disturbing...which is good. Its SUPPOSED to be frekken disturbing!

LOG
11-14-2009, 01:12 PM
It may be something we'll have to deal with more often as tech progresses. Eventually you may be able to stand right where a terrorist could and commit those acts.

Skye Jules
11-14-2009, 09:35 PM
I'm not too much of a fan of first-person shooters. Those games aren't for me. My fiance played it, and I was horrified by it, but at the same time, no one is promoting terroristic acts, so I don't see why it should be such a problem.

I have an even more controversial game for you to pick at. I don't have the link, but you could probably type key words in google.

Amazon had to recently (I believe recent) ban a game from its website because the game is one of those freaky Japanese hentai things where you play a person who goes around and rapes women. And the entire game is just about raping women--the pivotal point. And these women are obviously not enjoying it, either.

BigWords
11-14-2009, 09:35 PM
It may be something we'll have to deal with more often as tech progresses. Eventually you may be able to stand right where a terrorist could and commit those acts.

When a real-life holodeck or Danger Room is created (or IF one is ever created) I doubt that those kinds of programs would be seen immediately. Pornography directs all new forms of communication and entertainment, so we would likely be deluged with lots of interactive exploitation "games" before some bright spark decides to do something which challenges the user so directly.

By-the-by, has anyone heard anything from Jack Thompson on this game? I know he had some legal troubles of his own, but he always seems to have something or other to say about controversial games? His tirade against GTA was one of the funniest / most depressingly misinformed things I have ever read, and hearing him rage in futility against this will bring a smile to my face...

Zoombie
11-14-2009, 10:34 PM
Amazon had to recently (I believe recent) ban a game from its website because the game is one of those freaky Japanese hentai things where you play a person who goes around and rapes women. And the entire game is just about raping women--the pivotal point. And these women are obviously not enjoying it, either.

...Japan is...Japan.

I have no fucking clue, frankly.

Anywho, the Modern Warfare 2 controversy for me is that it is not very good.

In fact...I really wish I hadn't blown sixty bucks on it. Shows me, huh?

Basically, the problems I have are threefold.

The biggest and most noticeable problem is the graphics. They are not significantly better than Modern Warfare 2, and yet the game runs like total crap on my machine unless I turn said graphics DOWN to the point where it looks WORSE than the FIRST GAME which runs FINE.

The second and second most noticeable problem is the graphical glitches. Oh yeah, even with the graphics turned down, any time I use something that has a laser sight, which you HAVE to use on some missions, the entire screen flips out and it only returns to normal after I turn said laser sight off. Or when I die, which is more likely.

The third and least noticeable but most important problem is the story. Yeah, I know, playing MW2 for its story is kinda dumb...but, frankly, MW1's story was actually good, and more than that, it was compelling and within the realm of plausibility.

MW2? Well, by the fifth mission I was rolling my eyes so hard they were popping out of my skull. The Russians INVADE the UNITED STATES.

With paratroopers. After disabling our ENTIRE DEFENSE GRID with the codes they stole from A SINGLE SATELLITE.

i...

tH.


Do I even have to make fun of this!? You're telling me that HUNDREDS of massive cargo airplanes flew over the Pacific AND Europe AND the Atlantic with NO ONE NOTICING. Not a single person in Britain, who are our ALLIES noticed the fucking airplanes on THEIR radar? Their non hacked, non out of commission radar?! And what about our bases in Japan!? THEY SHOULD HAVE NOTICED SOMETHING! And even if you disable our satellites, our radar was still functional, but the operators ignored the mysterious bogeys flying in perfect formation directly at the USA just because they didn't show up on the satellites?

No.

Fucking.

Way.

And even if you could ignore all that and focus on the emotional impact...there's almost none! America is completely devoid of civilian life in the level I played. There is NO ONE, just a bunch of suburban houses from the nineteen fifties.

Like...is this Red Dawn? Did someone play a practical joke on me and sell me Freedom Fighters instead?

This is just...moronic!

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!




Guess that's the downside of buying something on Steam, eh.

clockwork
11-14-2009, 10:59 PM
The story is rather full-on. I mean, there's little room for future games when your A story is the invasion of the US. Tonally, it feels more futuristic than modern in that regard.

The first one felt very real. This one feels very silly. I still enjoyed it though and didn't have any graphical problems that I noticed.

Zoombie
11-14-2009, 11:04 PM
it also does not help that the game crashes every other five minutes.

<Sigh>

I want my frekken money back.

clockwork
11-14-2009, 11:29 PM
Yikes. No-one I know has had any major problems but Steam was the culprit in what problems I did hear about. Some people had a thing whereby even when the game was installed, Steam didn't detect it and so tried to download the thing from the server - all 13 gigs of it. But that seems to have been resolved now.

Hope you get yours fixed. They usually patch the PC versions to all hell eventually.

Zoombie
11-14-2009, 11:37 PM
Ah well...at least I've got 25 times the gameplay from Dragons Age.

That is, five hour long campaign in Modern Warfare 2 versus over 107 hours in Dragons Age.

clockwork
11-14-2009, 11:40 PM
My brother was annoyed because amazon dropped the price right after he bought it but then was pleasantly surprised when they refunded the difference a few days later without any prompting. Guilty conscience maybe. :)

But yeah. 6-8 hours for me to finish it. And I'm not quite ready for the desk-pounding frustrations of Veteran difficulty yet.

MGraybosch
11-15-2009, 12:41 AM
Ah well...at least I've got 25 times the gameplay from Dragons Age.

That is, five hour long campaign in Modern Warfare 2 versus over 107 hours in Dragons Age.

That's what you get for buying FPS games instead of renting them.

Zoombie
11-15-2009, 02:19 AM
Good news!

My friend fixed the visual errors and the slowdowns and hitches and crashes. Turns out you have to turn off the automated texturing and set it to manual, then turn the textures from "extreme" to "normal".

Ta da!

AMCrenshaw
11-15-2009, 12:11 PM
I noticed in this controversial level that you don't actually have to shoot anyone.

Zoombie
11-15-2009, 02:00 PM
Yeah, you have to shoot the cops when they show up to kill you.

SPMiller
11-15-2009, 02:42 PM
Yeah, you have to shoot the cops when they show up to kill you.Do you have to, or does the game force you to do so in order to "win"?

DVGuru
11-15-2009, 06:57 PM
Ah well...at least I've got 25 times the gameplay from Dragons Age.

That is, five hour long campaign in Modern Warfare 2 versus over 107 hours in Dragons Age.

Never buy a FPS for the single-player. Most of the time you'll be disappointed. Call of Duty, like all FPS, is about the multiplayer.

MGraybosch
11-15-2009, 06:59 PM
Never buy a FPS for the single-player. Most of the time you'll be disappointed. Call of Duty, like all FPS, is about the multiplayer.

Multiplayer? Meh. I'm glad Irrational/2K didn't ruin Bioshock by including multiplayer.

Zoombie
11-15-2009, 11:58 PM
Do you have to, or does the game force you to do so in order to "win"?

You have too, cause if you don't they will shoot you and you will die.

DVGuru
11-15-2009, 11:58 PM
Multiplayer? Meh. I'm glad Irrational/2K didn't ruin Bioshock by including multiplayer.

I agree. But Bioshock is more of a RPG with a first person perspective, like Oblivion and Fallout 3. I consider games like Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, and Perfect Dark to be first person shooters.

LOG
11-17-2009, 01:41 AM
Your graphic problems seem more like PC issues than game requirement issues.