Typesetting

zpeteman

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I've spent a large chunk of time lately typesetting my book as I get it ready for the printer. Just about everyday someone asks me what exactly typesetting means. So I put a post up on my website describing in some detail what I've been working on and included some examples in screenshots as well as a .pdf of a finalized passage.

Since poor typesetting is an incredibly common thing in self-publishing, I thought I'd mention it here in hopes that this little slice of information might save someone else's book from becoming just another self-pub stereotype.

If you're interested, here's the link.
 

nitaworm

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This is a great thing to share. I always wanted to know the details of this.
 

Vomaxx

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I haven't reached the typesetting stage yet. I'm still cutting down the trees I'll use when I begin pulping the paper for my truly "self-published" book.

--------------------
That was a joke. ;)
 

valeriec80

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Vomaxx--I just got your joke but I had to read it like three times. I'm going to blame that on the fact that it's Friday and I'm tired.

Still. Cute. :)
 

GraysonMoran

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Yow. That's scary.

So why do you have to do all this to publish when you can just upload a MS Word doc to Lulu and have it come out as a book?
 

StephenJSweeney

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So why do you have to do all this to publish when you can just upload a MS Word doc to Lulu and have it come out as a book?

Because otherwise your book will look like a Word doc you've uploaded and printed ;)

No, in all seriousness, the interior of the book needs to look aesthetically pleasing - drop caps, a nice readable font, scene breaks, etc. all in the right places.

There are also practical considerations: your margins need to be correct so that the text doesn't run into the gutter and makes the book hard to read.

Type setting is easy, though. There are loads of examples on the web and, if in doubt, you can also just pick up a book from your own shelf and take a look inside.
 

ResearchGuy

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. . . the interior of the book needs to look aesthetically pleasing - drop caps, a nice readable font, scene breaks, etc. all in the right places.

. . . your margins need to be correct so that the text doesn't run into the gutter and makes the book hard to read. . . .
Which can be done in Word. But one has to know what to do and how to do it, which is the hard part. (Word does not allow for every adjustment that a real page layout program will, of course, but it has more options than most folks know.)

--Ken
 

zpeteman

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It's possible to make things look fairly good in Word but you've no where near the flexibility or options that you do in a real layout program. And Lulu's conversion process, while workable in the most basic sense, leaves a lot to be desired.
 

GraysonMoran

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Yeah, I was gonna say. You can do everything Steven mentioned in Word. And I don't notice any margin trouble with Lulu. If there is, you just do it again. It's free.

But I hear what you're saying, zpeteman.

I guess there's a tradeoff between the expense and results? And probably makes a difference where you're publishing. I doubt you're doing this for Lulu? :)
 

StephenJSweeney

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Personally I'd recommend using something like Open Office - You can set it all up the way you want it and then export it to a PDF via it's built-in export tool.

Results should be absolutely spot on (they are for me).
 

ResearchGuy

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. . . And Lulu's conversion process, while workable in the most basic sense, leaves a lot to be desired.
I typically upload the pdf, just the way I want it. Results always (excluding occasional printing errors) look as expected. The fonts have to be embedded, of course.

--Ken
 

ResearchGuy

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True, uploading a PDF does give better results. You're still stuck with a POD book, though, unfortunately.
Which, as much as you question this, can look as good as or better than an offset-printed book. I have seen plenty of both. Offset printing confers no magic. As in so many things, "it depends."

--Ken
 

GraysonMoran

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True, uploading a PDF does give better results. You're still stuck with a POD book, though, unfortunately.

And here I thought one of the advantages of POD books was that you don't get stuck with them.

I agree completely on the quality of POD books. I've seen a lot from Lightning Source and I'd defy anybody to point out a difference between them and standard trade paperbacks.
 

zpeteman

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It's easy to spot the difference. There's nothing wrong with a POD book, it functions, it just doesn't offer any aesthetic value because POD hasn't reached the point yet where it provides many options for paper weight/color, cover stock, laminates, embossing, spot gloss, inserts, bleeds, etc. The result is that all POD books pretty much look like POD books, same glossy (eww) coverstock, same paper.

If you are printing non-fiction. None of that is of much concern. For fiction, the look and feel of the book can be a large part of the experience.

On top of that, it costs 2-3 times as much, or more.
 

GraysonMoran

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Please. How many novels go out with embossing and spot varnish and inserts and die cuts and all that jazz? Very few. Outside the horror ghetto damned few.
You go to a store, pick up a trade paperback off the first shelf you hit and compare it to a good quality POD book and you're not going to see a difference.

And those things have nothing to do with the typesetting.
 

ResearchGuy

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.. . For fiction, the look and feel of the book can be a large part of the experience. . . . .
Now you are being silly.

The indulgent design, paper, printing, binding of the original hardback edition of Everett Fox's translation of The Five Books of Moses (Schocken), gold leaf and all, was part of that experience. But a novel? Come on. Spoken like a printing snob, not a reader.

--Ken
 

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Spoken like a printing snob, not a reader.

--Ken

Err Ken? Those of us with visual impairments can have a hard time reading bad typography--especially if the kerning is off. Tracking the text in a single line can be very difficult if there are lots of rivers.
 

zpeteman

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You go to a store, pick up a trade paperback off the first shelf you hit and compare it to a good quality POD book and you're not going to see a difference.

I'm not here for a debate, but I do suggest take your own advice. Go to the bookstore and spend a few minutes paying attention to which books catch your eye and make you want to pick them up. You might be the sort of person that's drawn to the POD looking sort of books. Most people aren't. Check out the 'new in paperback' shelf, or the bestseller shelf. How many of those look like cookie cutter POD's and how many are well-designed, pleasing to look at, to hold, to feel.

I have a keen appreciation for the aesthetics of book design. McSweeney's books are especially gorgeous. I don't think it's snobbish to expect my own book to meet my own standards, it's just good sense. I want to publish a book that people will love, and that love affair needs to start with the cover and design before they ever get around to the reading.

I love the service that POD offers. I use Lulu from time to time to print up proof or review copies and for a lot of folks, that service is going to be exactly what they need. Personally, though, I'm not willing to give up both cost efficiency AND quality in order to print a book. I could be tempted to give up one or both but right now POD doesn't offer that option. So until they can print a higher quality book, or offer the same book at a vastly lower price, off-set is the only real option for me.
 

ResearchGuy

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Err Ken? Those of us with visual impairments can have a hard time reading bad typography--especially if the kerning is off. Tracking the text in a single line can be very difficult if there are lots of rivers.
A. Which has nothing to do with digital printing (POD) vs. offset.

B. And what makes you think I have 20:20 vision? I've worn glasses for nearly 60 years, and the eyes are not getting any better.

--Ken
 

ResearchGuy

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. . . So until they can print a higher quality book, or offer the same book at a vastly lower price, off-set is the only real option for me.
Often the real choice is between an offset-printed book that never exists because the barrier of up-front costs is too high, or a digitally printed book that does.

Offset printing per se is no guarantee of perfect production. Digital printing has its uses and can be done well. And offset printing has its uses and can be done badly. It all depends.

--Ken
 
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GraysonMoran

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Go to the bookstore and spend a few minutes paying attention to which books catch your eye and make you want to pick them up. You might be the sort of person that's drawn to the POD looking sort of books. Most people aren't.

I can only agree with Research Guy. You're being silly. You want your work to be really vital and are grasping at straws, maybe? Bringing in embossing and cover art and all that. There's no difference. If this was in a bar instead of internet I'd quckly bet you a thousand dollars you'd fail a test at picking out the POD books from shelf books in a test.

What you're doing with your time and expensive program is great, really. And adds to your product. But you're going way overboard in trying to pretend like not using it yields jumk and the clues should be that you're broad-brushing and tossing in irrelevant things to the discussion.

Too bad, because the typesetting thing was interesting. This whole "POD can't compare" thing is silly
 

zpeteman

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I'm a bookseller. I spend a LOT of time looking at books and considering what works and what doesn't. I'd take that bet in a heartbeat :)