Kindergarten Admissions Nervous Breakdown

MsGneiss

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Talk me off the ledge, people.

I live in NYC, and people take Kindergarten admissions very seriously. My 4 year old is in pre-school now, and we are applying to K next year. I never thought this process would be so stressful.

There are two options for us - public or private. Both my husband and I are fundamentally opposed to private schools (we are both products of the NYC public school system, and damn proud of it). Still, wishing to cover all my bases, I went to a bunch of private school open houses, and I was unimpressed. The kids were snobby, the teachers were obnoxious. The other parents carried on discussions about the superiority of one area code over another and how inadequate their nannies are. This is just not my life, and I know that my son will NOT fit in with kids like that. But whenever I mention that I am not applying to Collegiate/Trinity/Dalton, I get looks of horror. "You mean you are not applying to ANY of them?" (Also, I would feel like a total dunce paying 30,000/year for Kindergarten!) Am I wrong about this? Am I just arrogant and snobby in my own way by looking down on these obviously prestigious schools?

Then, there are public schools. We have several citywide "Gifted & Talented" schools, and to get into those, the kid has to be in the 99th percentile (nationally) on the OLSAT, which is a very inadequate IQ test. As an academic with a focus on cognitive psychology, I am totally opposed to IQ tests like this. As a parent, I realize that I need to play the system to give my son the best shot at a good school. Has anyone gone through this sort of process? So far, my son is pretty cool with the prep we are doing (about an hour of work books every day), and is very enthusiastic about it. But, I do feel bad about what many others would call "robbing him of his childhood," aka "just let him be a kid."

Rant over. Opinions? Advice? Words of wisdom and comfort?
 
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Sweetleaf

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I wouldn't bother with the gifted schools unless it's clearly obvious that he's not being challenged and is above the expected level for his age. I think testing him now would just amount to conceit. (You know the type - 'my kids so smart, he's in this school, blah blah blah)

I think you should go with what you feel comfortable with, i.e. the public schools. Those kids do get into good colleges too! ;)

He'll be fine either way. He has good parents who give a damn, and that what they really need. :Hug2:
 

C.bronco

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I know that my own can't sit through more than 45 minutes of homework on any night, and he is 7.

Sometimes the public schools can provde more services than the private. I'm not in NYC, but I'd say don't sweat it as long as he is in a place with nice kids where he can have fun, get excited about going to school, and have fun learning.

This is when they establish attitudes about school and learning. If it is happy, then it is good.


Those other parents will give their kids breakdowns when they have to apply to college.
 

chevbrock

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So long as he is enthusiastic about sitting at the books for an hour a day, I say, "go for it!" You know he's learning, but maybe he hasn't worked it out yet (which is good for you).

I think your instincts are correct if you have checked out the private schools and found nothing there that yourselves or your child has connected with. Go with the school you and your kid likes. You'll know it when you get there.

And echoes for the above about how the fact that he has two very caring parents behind him, and how that is going to put him way in front of the pack no matter how much you spend on school fees a year.
 

MsGneiss

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So long as he is enthusiastic about sitting at the books for an hour a day, I say, "go for it!" You know he's learning, but maybe he hasn't worked it out yet (which is good for you).

True, but a sensitive four year old is likely to be enthusiastic about anything that he observes is pleasing his mom. So, I wonder how much of it is really him, and how much of it is his innate desire to please. He says things like "let's study already, I want to get smarter," and "learning things is very important." Either I'm blessed with a really studios child, or I'm projecting, and that isn't good.
 

darkprincealain

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In the whole private vs. public thing, if you checked out the private schools and didn't find anything you thought you or your child would attach with, your instincts are probably correct. They're not for everyone.

That said, in the U.S., we have become subject to what I like to call "education inflation." The college degree is the new high school diploma, and lower grades are getting more viciously competitive than ever. Personally, I think unfortunately if this is the way it is going, 45 minutes to an hour of workbooks a night for a four-year-old might not be out of bounds... but I don't know. It's tough at that age to identify if they really are enjoying things, or learning to enjoy things because they want to please mom.

I didn't have any "homework" at that age but watched a lot of educational tv shows and mom would only buy educational toys until I got older, so I think the best approach may be different for every child, too.
 

StoryG27

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True, but a sensitive four year old is likely to be enthusiastic about anything that he observes is pleasing his mom. So, I wonder how much of it is really him, and how much of it is his innate desire to please. He says things like "let's study already, I want to get smarter," and "learning things is very important." Either I'm blessed with a really studios child, or I'm projecting, and that isn't good.
Hey, if that's all you're projecting, cut yourself a break. Maybe he is studios, maybe he really loves it. Give him days off. Just pick a day of the week to be his choice, and see what he chooses to do. Most parents encourage their children, in academics, in sports, in music, something, but pushing them until they break is something entirely different, something from the sounds of it, you're not even close to. He's four. Relax. Encouraging a love of studying, no matter what his motivation, is a good thing. Encouraging other interests is too. If he likes sports or music, encourage him in those too, so he sees you are proud of him for more than just one aspect of his life, so he sees no matter what his passion (which he won't even likely find out for years) as long as he tries and has fun, he has your support. You sound like an excellent involved parent. That kid is as good as gold, as long as he has you. So again, relax a little, and don't beat yourself up when there's even the slightest chance you might be doing something wrong. Parents, even the most well intentioned and loving, screw up occasionally raising their kids, it happens. The kids survive and still thrive. I think nurturing a love learning is wonderful, and hopefully something that will benefit him his entire life.
 

WendyNYC

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Then, there are public schools. We have several citywide "Gifted & Talented" schools, and to get into those, the kid has to be in the 99th percentile (nationally) on the OLSAT, which is a very inadequate IQ test. As an academic with a focus on cognitive psychology, I am totally opposed to IQ tests like this. As a parent, I realize that I need to play the system to give my son the best shot at a good school. Has anyone gone through this sort of process? So far, my son is pretty cool with the prep we are doing (about an hour of work books every day), and is very enthusiastic about it. But, I do feel bad about what many others would call "robbing him of his childhood," aka "just let him be a kid."

Rant over. Opinions? Advice? Words of wisdom and comfort?

Are you certain he has to score 99% on the OLSAT? I thought that was just for schools like Hunter and Anderson and maybe Lower Lab, and for most of the others you have to score above 90. There are many good G&T programs, as well as general ed in NYC. Where are you looking?

But yes, unless you are signing up for your neighborhood school, you are forced to play the system here in NYC. And even then, you'll have to do it for middle school because (please correct me if I'm wrong) everyone is placed somewhere based on the city-wide 5th grade test. My very good friends are going through this now with their son. He goes to a G&T program on the UWS and they love it, now he's looking for MS and they are 10 kinds of freaked out.

Don't worry too much about the damage done from testing a 4-year-old. So long as you are not stressed out, it should be fine. Both my girls took the ERB and it was no big whoop. An hour of workbooks seems like a lot to me, but if he's enjoying it, I don't think it's a problem.

Anyway, I'm no expert on NYC public schools, but I can give you my thoughts based on second-hand info from friends with older kids. Feel free to PM me.

(And I promise you there are normal families in NYC private schools, but I totally understand not wanting to pay the crazy tuition, especially for lower school. He will get a good education wherever he goes.)
 
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backslashbaby

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It sounds a little batty, to be honest ;)

But I think that period in a child's life is a great time for learning, absolutely. Are there programs that have field trips and guest teachers and things? Those are great.

I'd think you could find enough material/programs without that huge pricetag, myself. And I'd be very concerned about the snobbery, just because you don't want your child to pick up certain, um...paradigms, about the world. I went to school in places where this was a huge problem. I am not anti-rich, at all. But think about what kids are told to hold as important, you know? Especially at young ages.

Good Mommy, in any case :D I've seen too many kids told that learning isn't fun when clearly they thought it was. Anything that encourages kids to enjoy learning things is a good way to go, imho.
 

Dicentra P

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The thing about this test prep is it becomes a never ending cycle. Since you know the OLSAT is not a good measure you are cramming in a way that is not really giving life skills or knowledge that is to his benefit. Step back and think if you are setting him up for an endless cycle of cramming for tests that don't measure anything meaningful. I don't know the NYC schools so I don't know if that is the case but if you send him to a "regular" school and give him the tools and enrichment to learn in that environment he may be better off in the long run.
 

MsGneiss

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Are you certain he has to score 99% on the OLSAT? I thought that was just for schools like Hunter and Anderson and maybe Lower Lab, and for most of the others you have to score above 90. There are many good G&T programs, as well as general ed in NYC. Where are you looking?

You need 99% on the OLSAT to be eligible for the lottery to the 5 City-wide G&T schools. We are in Brooklyn, and I don't think it's reasonable to commute for 2 hours a day with a 5 year old, so there's only one such school that's close to us. A score of 93% or above qualifies you for placement in a G&T program in your district, and there are quite a few excellent programs in our area, so that'll be a good option for us.[/QUOTE]

(And I promise you there are normal families in NYC private schools, but I totally understand not wanting to pay the crazy tuition, especially for lower school. He will get a good education wherever he goes.)

It's not just the tuition (although that's definitely a major factor). It's also the travel time. As I said, we live in Brooklyn, and even the privates that are in Brooklyn are still a good drive / train ride away. I think it's unfair to do that to a small kid. I had to commute a lot when I was in high school, and I recall how awful that was. It must suck even more for a 5 year old.
 

MsGneiss

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Hey, if that's all you're projecting, cut yourself a break. Maybe he is studios, maybe he really loves it. Give him days off. Just pick a day of the week to be his choice, and see what he chooses to do. Most parents encourage their children, in academics, in sports, in music, something, but pushing them until they break is something entirely different, something from the sounds of it, you're not even close to. He's four. Relax. Encouraging a love of studying, no matter what his motivation, is a good thing. Encouraging other interests is too. If he likes sports or music, encourage him in those too, so he sees you are proud of him for more than just one aspect of his life, so he sees no matter what his passion (which he won't even likely find out for years) as long as he tries and has fun, he has your support. You sound like an excellent involved parent. That kid is as good as gold, as long as he has you. So again, relax a little, and don't beat yourself up when there's even the slightest chance you might be doing something wrong. Parents, even the most well intentioned and loving, screw up occasionally raising their kids, it happens. The kids survive and still thrive. I think nurturing a love learning is wonderful, and hopefully something that will benefit him his entire life.

Thanks! That is really encouraging. The thing that concerns me is that we are cutting back on a few other activities that we used to spend time on, to make time for this prep. We used to spend a couple of hours each evening reading books, or playing chess. That was never seen as "studying" but I acknowledge that both tasks present a cognitive strain for a kid so small. But now there's this pressure to prep prep prep, so we have to cut back on the other stuff, which also adds to my guilt big time. But as long as he doesn't complain about the workbooks, I'm going to keep at it, since he is learning new things through them.

Reading back on that, I realize that I may sound a tad psychotic.
 

WendyNYC

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Oh yeah, don't do a long commute. Location is key.

My friends (with the 5th grader) were kind of meh about the school when their son first started at the G&T, but they really ended up loving it. Nice teachers, nice kids, small class size. There are some great options.
 

C.bronco

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Every child has a different age when he is ready to make a big jump. There is the "readiness" factor that only you can know. You know your child best of all, and will have the best sense for where he will be happy.

Good luck!

Parenting is only easy when the parents put themselves first. ;) Whatever you decide, it will probably be the right decision because you have put so much time and thought into it.