WHEN DOES FAN FIC CROSS THE LINE INTO PLAGIARISM?

My view is that lifting entire sentences, paragraphs, etc. would be plagiarism. If someone used my characters and my world to tell a new story, that would be a fanfic. If someone quoted my writing word-for-word without proper attribution, that would be plagiarism.

We've had a lot of threads on fanfiction in the past, but usually from people who are writing it. It's interesting you're on the other side.

Really, all fanfiction is copyright infringement, not necessarily plagiarism. If you hold the copyright on your original work, you have the right to create any derivatives of that work. But a lot of authors, like JK Rowling, choose to ignore fanfiction of their work. Furthermore, I believe some contracts state if the author becomes aware of a fanfiction work, they're obligated to report it to the publisher. So even if you don't mind people are out there writing fanfiction, it can put you in an awkward position. Fanfiction has almost become a "norm," and I think most people are okay with ignoring it UNTIL someone tries to profit. That most definitely crosses the line.

I would never grant anyone permission to write fanfiction, because the legalities of that could get very messy. Just ignore those e-mails.

Like katiemac says, I don't think fanfic should ever be officially "approved" by the author. That gets into all kinds of weird legal territory. As long as the fans are doing it for fun and not making any sort of profit, and you don't have any sort of intense moral feelings against it, I'd say ignore it. Absolutely DO NOT read it, though. Ever. If you do that, then anything you may write in the future may be subject to fans saying "I thought of that first!"

I know that the creator of the Gargoyles animated TV show basically gave silent approval to a group of fanfic writers (I was once among them) to "continue" the show after it was cancelled. It was a group effort to continue the storyline in written, episodic form. He would answer all sorts of questions we put to him about what he had planned and envisioned for the future, but he would never, ever read anything we had written. Basically his position was that if he ever had the opportunity to contribute more to the universe, he did not want it influenced by fan work. Anyway, the fan effort benefitted him because it kept the fan base alive even after the show went away - and a decade later he got to do some more in comic form because the audience was still seen to exist.

katiemac said:

But a lot of authors, like JK Rowling, choose to ignore fanfiction of their work.

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Just a correction that she didn't ignore it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3753001.stm

CupofDice said:

Just a correction that she didn't ignore it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3753001.stm

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Which is just as well when you think of the number of recent fantasy authors who got their start writing Harry Potter fanfiction. Cassandra Clare, Jaida Jones, Sarah Rees Brennan, etc. (I'm hoping that the amazing Sam is next.)

Not that I read fanfiction. Ahem.

CupofDice said:

Just a correction that she didn't ignore it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3753001.stm

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You're right, I'd forgotten she'd done this. However, in terms of ignoring, I doubt she read it, for reasons Jo said. I'm forgetting the author's name where a fanfic writer claimed the author stole the storyline for a published novel from a fanfic work.

Author approved fanfiction can actually help your legal position if you do like mercedes lackey who has the author sign that their work is set in an AU, and they agree not to use her characters, just the world setting.

katiemac said:

I'm forgetting the author's name where a fanfic writer claimed the author stole the storyline for a published novel from a fanfic work.

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I believe this happened to MZB but it falls under the general category of frivolous/crazy lawsuits--you can't stop those from happening no matter what you do.

veinglory said:

I believe this happened to MZB but it falls under the general category of frivolous/crazy lawsuits--you can't stop those from happening no matter what you do.

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Yep, that's who I was thinking.

What's an MZB?

JimmyB27 said:

What's an MZB?

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Fantasy writer Marion Zimmer Bradley.

I always wondered about this. I see 100% of fanfic to be plagiarism. Why isn't it? If I was asked the OP question, I would say it crosses the line into plagiarism the second somebody else uses one of your characters. I don't get why this isn't the case. I have zero tolerance for fan fiction. I JUST DON'T GET IT.

I'm amazed that they asked permission. Fanfic generally operates on a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of system. The next time it happens tell them that since they've brought it to your attention, you are contractually obligated to inform them that writing such material will force you to take legal action against them so your publisher won't take legal action against you for not defending your copyright.

veinglory said:

I believe this happened to MZB but it falls under the general category of frivolous/crazy lawsuits--you can't stop those from happening no matter what you do.

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Except in her case, it was her habit to solicit fan input for stories. Since there was a chance that the fan in question really had submitted a story for consideration, they pulped the novel rather than deal with the legal issues.

... never read or wrote fanfic, myself. Don't think it's cool, either, unless sanctioned by the author. So it's good readers are asking your permission. If you do wind up giving it down the road, of course be clear what you are allowing them to do with your books and characters. I could see this being a fun thing for fans of books to engage in, and also for writers to manufacture. But again, I feel that authors should be notified first and that their permission be sought. Otherwise I'd also have to qualify it as a form of plagarism or theft.

Generating significant fanfic is a sign your work has made it, that it has enraptured readers so much they want to continue the story. Fanfic between "legit" books can also keep the enthusiasm alive and spark new readers of the "canon."

Too bad there are so many legal complications surrounding copyright. It would be nice if writers could give fanficcers explicit permission for use without profit. However, considering the dangers to themselves and their publishers, that's not possible now, to my knowledge.

KTC said:

I always wondered about this. I see 100% of fanfic to be plagiarism. Why isn't it? If I was asked the OP question, I would say it crosses the line into plagiarism the second somebody else uses one of your characters. I don't get why this isn't the case. I have zero tolerance for fan fiction. I JUST DON'T GET IT.

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Plagiarism is taking credit for someone's work as your own.

Fanfic, by definition, assumes that the readers know the true source of the borrowed characters/setting/history and virtually always includes disclaimers to that effect.

Ergo, no fanfic is plagiarism by virtue of being fanfic. (Although, however, fanfic writers can plagiarize by taking paragraphs/dialogue/plot twists from other, unacknowledged sources as well.)

I am both a happy author of fanfic and a happy author whose books have inspired fanfic.

ClaudiaGray said:

Plagiarism is taking credit for someone's work as your own.

Fanfic, by definition, assumes that the readers know the true source of the borrowed characters/setting/history and virtually always includes disclaimers to that effect.

Ergo, no fanfic is plagiarism by virtue of being fanfic. (Although, however, fanfic writers can plagiarize by taking paragraphs/dialogue/plot twists from other, unacknowledged sources as well.)

I am both a happy author of fanfic and a happy author whose books have inspired fanfic.

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I don't buy it at all. I will not be convinced that it is not plagiarism. It's theft...plain and simple.

Phaeal said:

Generating significant fanfic is a sign your work has made it, that it has enraptured readers so much they want to continue the story. Fanfic between "legit" books can also keep the enthusiasm alive and spark new readers of the "canon."

Too bad there are so many legal complications surrounding copyright. It would be nice if writers could give fanficcers explicit permission for use without profit. However, considering the dangers to themselves and their publishers, that's not possible now, to my knowledge.

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Those "legal complications" are there for authors to protect their property.

veinglory said:

I believe this happened to MZB but it falls under the general category of frivolous/crazy lawsuits--you can't stop those from happening no matter what you do.

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katiemac said:

Yep, that's who I was thinking.

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Cyia said:

Except in her case, it was her habit to solicit fan input for stories. Since there was a chance that the fan in question really had submitted a story for consideration, they pulped the novel rather than deal with the legal issues.

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The difference between the MZB case and fan fic is that the work in question was NOT a fanfic by the standard definition.

At the time MZB edited a Darkover anthology series ("Friends of Darkover" was in the title, IIRC) which she opened to everyone. This series gave several Fantasy writers their "break" and was very successful on pretty much every level.

She received a submission from a fan whose plot/storyline greatly resembled the book she was presently writing. IIRC, MZB rejected the story and went on to publish her like book. The fan sued for copyright infringement. The matter was settled out of court and MZB paid damages to the fan.

This was NOT fanfic in the sense that everyone thinks of today. It was a submission to a legitimate Fantasy publication.


However, this was the case that made reading fanfic by the original author such a bad legal idea and started the downturn in the respectability levels given to fanfic and fanfic writers. It also closed down "Friends of Darkover" and other open-submission anthologies that had been open at the time, which was a great loss, IMO.

Didn't MZB use characters, settings, and plot devices from other books herself?

Aren't all Arthurian tales a form of fanfic themselves? Are they not just because the story is older?

I mean, I read a story about the life of Jesus, with Jesus as a main character, a couple years back. What's the difference between that and the Arthurian tales and fanfic?

If I ever get to the point where people are ficcing my work, i'll be ecstatic.

I love the idea of people writing fic about the things I've created - doesn't mean I ever want to read it (and I really don't - I'm sure I'd be majorly squicked) but I'd def just turn a blind eye to it (unless someone was going all crazy and trying to make money.)