Anti-social...or just choosy about one's companions?

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So I was out with a friend this morning and we got talking about a mutual acquaintance. I referred to the last time the three of us were together and made a throwaway comment like, "I thought it was funny when we [the guy and I] started talking about a particular author's back catalogue and you were confused as to what we were going on about."

Now I didn't say this in a mocking tone, or at all in a cruel way. I was merely referring to the frown on her face while me and this man were talking about a particular author. My friend had heard of the writer but isn't a fan.

Anyway, she told me I had to realise not everyone was into the same things I was and I said, "I know...I was just commenting that it felt as if me and him were...not ganging up, but forming our own little bookworm club and you didn't know what we were on about." Just...acknowledging that we'd been away in our own little world talking about a writer of whom we're both fans, so she knew I wasn't completely oblivious to her presence there.

She went on to say, "After all, there are things I know about that you don't, and vice versa."

I started to defend myself and tell her, "I know we all have different interests; I was just acknowledging the fact-" intending to add, "-we may have excluded you."

Well by this time she was in her stride. "After all, how often do you go out?"

"Huh?"

She asked again.

"Well...every day."

"No you don't."

"Pardon me? Yes I do!"

"As often as me? I don't think so."

I asked her, how does she know how often I go out, then she asked do I go out a lot, or do I read a lot. I said both. She said "You don't read when you go out. You can't have it both ways."

"Yes I can. I go out of the house. And I read."

"Well then you're not meeting people are you? If you just want to spend your time reading you may as well stay indoors. There's no point going out if you're going to spend all your time reading."

"Uh...change of scenery?"

"But you're not talking to people if you go out and sit alone, reading."

"Maybe I don't want to!"

"Then why go out?"

*sigh*

Upshot is, she prefers to go out and meet people whereas I never go out (how she knows this I don't know) and when I do, I take a book with me and never talk to people, so there's no point in me leaving the house. This is the same person who told me months ago if no-one ever reads what you write, you're not a writer. Basically, you're not a writer 'til you're published. I have a lot of respect for her; she has oodles of integrity but...damn. Some people just don't get it.

I'm not a people person but if I never meet people and never talk to them, how did I manage to get into a debate with a mutual acquaintance about a particular author in front of her? I was about to apologise for excluding her from the conversation but she thought my apology was what excluded her, as in - emphasising that me and our male friend were readers, and she is not.

She's not a reader, see, because she's always out of the house, here, there, everywhere, spending time with her family, doing things, working and so on...and she insists, downright insists, that she goes out more than I do. And I never meet new people because I've always got my nose in a book.

The thing is, I do meet new people. I meet people all the time. I just don't see why I should waste my breath on them if we're not on the same level. Take tt42 for instance. Now, we've never met but we will someday for sure (beware of that day, folks. Beware). I also know for sure that if I said to her, face to face, "Christ, I need some me-time, I'm off to my room," or "I'm going out, I want to write a few thousand words," she wouldn't take offence or see that as a snub. She'd probably think, "Oh thank God. Thought she'd never piss off."

See...it's not a matter of writers being anti-social. It's not even a writer thing, I think. It's a matter of knowing what you like in other people, what you're willing to put up with, what you're not...and finding people who agree with you on that.

I believe too many people form friendships because of proximity. "You live near me so let's hang out." Fuck that. I'd rather have no local friends than pootle around town with folks I have little more in common with than the city we inhabit. Friendship by default? No thanks. I'd rather spend time with folks I like.

I guess I'm just thinking out loud, rejigging a few ideas I have about my social life and how I spend my time. I sincerely believe that writers are misunderstood - we're seen as anti-social, as I've said, even though we're people-watchers. We have to be. So we're on the outside looking in much of the time.

Added to which my attitude to people regardless of my occupation is, "If I don't like you, fuck off." Life's too short to socialise for the sake of it. I don't see why I should flit here there and everywhere just so people won't call me anti-social, say I have no life or accuse me of 'never going out'.

I do go out, but when I do it's not to be visible. It's to go out with a purpose - pay bills, meet someone (yes, really!), have lunch, change of scenery, write, read, go for a walk. Sometimes on my own, sometimes with a friend. But people I count as true friends don't need to be in my face all the time, talking at me, being in my business. I prefer companions whose company I can keep with no pressure to be 'on'. People who are as accepting of me as I am of them. I'm a writer, not an actress. If you want someone to perform, go to the theatre. This is my life, not a stage set to entertain you.

I'm sick of being expected to work the room when I just don't want to. Hell, if I was that awful a person I'd not have any friends at all. I'd never have chatted with aforementioned acquaintance about Jane Austen, the Brontes, Dickens, Plato and the like. I'd never have talked to the hunky librarian about Anais Nin and The Torture Garden.

So please, more visibly sociable folks - stop thinking that because my interests are quiet, they are not true interests at all. People do connect over books. And just because I have fewer connections than you does not mean they aren't as deep.

Perhaps because I have fewer, the ones I do make are stronger, by virtue of my not spreading myself too thinly across a wide-ranging, numerous social circle, built on nothing more than a desire to say "Look at me! I have friends!"

That is all.

Oh, and...thoughts?
 

thethinker42

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Yeah, I'm right there with you.

I joke that I spend my days alone in my house, talking to people I've never met, writing about people who don't exist. But the fact is, I like it that way. And after my recent trip to the States, I like it even more. I like having human contact besides my husband and internet friends, but my god, I have my limits. We saw so many people in Seattle, were so busy, and were CONSTANTLY around other people...it was exhausting. I wanted to hole up in the bedroom with my laptop and write. (After 2 weeks, I finally did...I couldn't take it anymore)

I don't know if writers are antisocial by nature, but I'm definitely finding that I am. I like being around people in moderation. When I'm alone with my thoughts and my keyboard, I'm happy. When I'm around other people, it's hit or miss. I don't seek people out (which is why, after a year on this island, I've made ONE friend), I don't start frothing at the mouth if I go days on end without seeing anyone but my husband and cats. I just like being ALONE.

And, like SP, I do have a small group of close friends...mostly made up of people who understand that I'm eccentric, a little offbeat, and that it's nothing personal - or negotiable - when I want to be alone. Fortunately, my husband also understands these things.
 

Alpha Echo

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I'm the same way, SP. I don't know if it's because I'm a writer or because of who I am. My ex-husband was the complete opposite and couldn't understand my desire, my need, for a night in. I'd rather be at home reading, writing, or even just curled up watching TV than out and about doing something. He always wanted to be doing something, and not at home.

The guy I'm with now is not a writer, but he is an artist. He's a contractor with his own business by day, and he builds furniture from scratch in his spare time. Just as I enjoy watching my characters grow and change, he loves the feel of the wood and watching it take form and making something with his hands. I wouldn't say either of us is anti-social, but we both appreciate...neither of us likes to be surrounded by crowds of people. He doesn't even like concerts very much, and he never wants to go to a live football game even though we love watching it on Sundays.

I'm rambling. My point is that maybe it's not just writers, maybe it's artists? I don't know. But I'm loving that now I'm in a relationship where I can sit and write, he can do his own thing, we can not say a word and be perfectly happy. We have a small group of friends, family means a lot, but we'd rather just...be alone.
 
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I think I'm moving into a time of my life when I'm more accepting of who I am (although I've a lot of work to do on figuring out what or who I am as well) and less tolerant of idiots and timewasters. I used to try to fit in, so people would like me and I'd force myself into social situations because...that's just what you did in your teens and 20s.

So yes, I'd like true friendships - who wouldn't? And to be in love. Who wouldn't? But on my terms. Maybe that makes me selfish...but I know it's possible to have a marriage with someone who is either like you, or accepting of who you are, because both you ladies have done it. And it's possible to have similar friendships - I've done it.
 

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I was having a conversation very similar to this the other day. I think I said something along the lines of (and I apologise in advance for how self-centered this all sounds):

I'm at the age where I need to evaluate my life and my circle of support, especially with the career I've chosen. I'm not going to spend time with just anybody for the sole purpose of adding to my 'collection' of friendships (collection is the wrong word, but I'm icky sick and can't think).

These days I choose friends, not hang on to everyone I meet -- and in the past two weeks I've walked away from two different ladies who could have been friends. I met them, I spent some time with them, I got to know them a little, and I ultimately decided they weren't for me. One I had nothing in common with, and the other gave off mild waves of selfishness. Not my idea of a solid foundation.

The people in my life are there because we work. The vibes are good. The chemistry, etc. We're on the same wavelengths. Friendships -- like any relationship -- require a certain amount of effort on either side to keep them strong. And if the new friendship doesn't have a lot going for it to begin with, then what's the point?

/random rant
 

Perks

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I thought you were an utter pain in the ass, the way you wouldn't lift your snout from the crotch of that novel you were into. It was like a pig rooting truffles.

Oh wait. None of that happened. If you had a book, I imagine it was in your bag. You were present and engaging. I've got no complaints. I think you've processed this speed bump properly. Don't fret, luv. You're alright.
 
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Ah, good. I'm normal then. Well...by yous guys' standards...

Um. Great.
 

CaroGirl

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Every relationship takes effort. Not just romantic relationships and marriages but every relationship, including those with family and friends. I have friendships that take very little effort because we have a lot in common, they show up on time when we meet, I don't have to censor what I say when we talk, and so on. It's comfortable and easy most of the time.

I also have friendships that take more effort. Maybe we don't have quite as much in common, or I don't always agree with their opinions or goals. But, for whatever reason, I've decided they're worth the extra effort to keep as friends.

I've also had friendships I've had to end because the effort was too much. For example, I had a friend who I felt belittled me and didn't make me feel good about myself. I distanced myself from her and we are no longer in touch. If a friend consistently takes more than she gives, I usually pull away.

My relationships are important to me because these people will be there when I need them, just like I'll be there when they need me. Not just when things are hunky dory but when things are bad too. I'm an introvert by nature, and a bit of a social-phobe, so I have to work hard to talk to people but the enduring friendships I've cultivated are worth it.
 

Tepelus

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I've always been the shy, quiet type that has had a hard time making new friends. I tend to be a homebody, wanting to spend time in my flower gardens, write my stories or draw/paint my pictures. I don't like to go out, in the last couple of years I have become very anxious in large crowds, never had that problem when I was younger. I don't like going to big events with lots of people, especially those with rowdy crowds, they make me very uncomfortable. I prefer to dwell in my imagination, and put what I see in my mind onto paper or canvas. My boyfriend, however, is the complete opposite. He loves big crowds, the rowdier and bigger, the better. He hates being at home, every day he has off from work he wants to spend being out of the house, doing something. He has no creative side to him, so he gets bored easily and must find something to occupy his mind. He knows a lot of people, and has a lot of "friends". I quote friends, because many of these people he calls friends don't ever call to say, "What are you doing? Wanna go do something?", or whatever. He thinks I'm unsocial because I have no interest in talking to his friends, who I have no similar interests in, except for one only because he shares some interest in gardening and landscaping like I do. My boyfriend wants me, forces me to be friends with this friend's wife, who I share nothing in common with, and though I am friendly with her, she acts like I am a bother when I do try to socialize with her. When me and the bf go to their house, and are at first the only ones there, as soon as someone else shows up at their doorstep, said friend's wife puts me on ignore. So, how can I be friends with someone like that? I can't, and even though I have told my bf what she does, he still insists I try to be friends, cuz after all, she is his best friend's wife.

Anyway, since moving to Ohio from Michigan, I haven't met anyone here that I could call a friend, someone to hang out with, tell secrets to or just share things with (especially my art work and writings). My friends, the few that I have, all live in Michigan. Sometimes I wish I would just move back, where my friends and family are and get away from all the snobs here. I have yet to meet anyone who shares any of the same interests that I do, or any one that even gives a damn, and the boyfriend sure doesn't give a crap. Well, actually, there is one person that shares the same gardening interests as me, but I wouldn't exactly call her a friend, just an acquaintance. Maybe in time, but it seems like whoever I would like to be friends with, the male other half in my life doesn't. Not just the current one, all of them I have had. Maybe, I was destined to live my life, alone.
 

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My teenage daughter thinks I must be unhappy that I don't get out much. No, really, I like my quiet life of reading, writing, and knitting! (That was not a sarcastic statement, BTW.) And I do get out, just not as much as she needs to for her own personal happiness.

Granted, if my health was better I probably would get out more, and if my finances were better I would absolutely travel more, but given my circumstances I've created the best life for myself that I can imagine.
 
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My teenage daughter thinks I must be unhappy that I don't get out much. No, really, I like my quiet life of reading, writing, and knitting! (That was not a sarcastic statement, BTW.) And I do get out, just not as much as she needs to for her own personal happiness.

Granted, if my health was better I probably would get out more, and if my finances were better I would absolutely travel more, but given my circumstances I've created the best life for myself that I can imagine.
What a great way of putting it.

You've also reminded me of the time I mentioned to a friend (I really should relegate these people to 'acquaintance' in my posts) that I'd been to see such-and-such a movie at the cinema at the end of my street.

"Who did you go with?"

"Oh, no one."

"You went alone?" [said with expression of horror]

"Well...yes."

"Oh, you should have said. [Daughter's name] could have gone with you."

"But...I didn't want her to. Otherwise I would have asked."

[Expression of deeper horror] "You can't go to the cinema on your own."

"Uh...I just did. And I do at least once a week."
 

Namatu

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I wouldn't call it anti-social, more introverted. I don't like to hang out in crowds, I don't like to be rushing around all the time, doing things. I need quiet time to myself to write, think, relax, and just be. At times I find myself surprised at how social I can become, but that's more a reflection on my current circle of friends. None of them take offense at my throwing them over in favor of a night (or weekend) in. They accept me, and they don't feel badly if I say something they don't understand, and I never come away from them feeling irritable or misunderstood or somehow in the wrong for being myself. I got rid of those friends long ago. :D

Some of those old friends I really liked (mostly), but it was no longer worth the energy to come away from our encounters having experienced what you described, SP. The frustration isn't worth it. I'd rather have more me-time!
 

thethinker42

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[Expression of deeper horror] "You can't go to the cinema on your own."

I can't go to the theatre alone.

Not because I can't watch a movie alone. Rather, because I need someone there to keep me from doing something that might get me arrested when other people insist on talking during the film.
 

Namatu

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[Expression of deeper horror] "You can't go to the cinema on your own."
I've gotten that, and "you went shopping? by yourself?" Yes! I'm independent! I like it!

It's interesting how different people can be. Some people are naturally just very social, and some are maybe more hung up on constantly being around someone to... um, I really can't fathom why. To not feel alone? Because alone is bad somehow? We're a very relationshippy society.
 
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Oh I'm not against relationships...love 'em. When they're genuine. I'm just growing out of that need to have 'make up the numbers' friendships, I think. It's very liberating, though at the same time tiring when it comes to explaining to people that no, you don't want them to go shopping with you and yes, you do like going to the cinema alone.

Probably a slight derail - well, more of a thread evolution I think, but...do you think it's jealousy in a way? Or awe? That there are folks out there who can do things (to use an Oprah-ism) 'with themselves'?
 

Exir

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Oh gosh.

In psychology, being anti-social has got NOTHING whatsoever to do with being shy in social situations.
 

Exir

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD or APD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."
 

Namatu

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Oh I'm not against relationships...love 'em. When they're genuine. I'm just growing out of that need to have 'make up the numbers' friendships, I think. It's very liberating, though at the same time tiring when it comes to explaining to people that no, you don't want them to go shopping with you and yes, you do like going to the cinema alone.
I meant "relationshippy" more in "I can't possibly do anything on my own because that means I'm lonely" or something way. I agree with you!

Probably a slight derail - well, more of a thread evolution I think, but...do you think it's jealousy in a way? Or awe? That there are folks out there who can do things (to use an Oprah-ism) 'with themselves'?
Or fear. The same person who expressed horror at my going shopping or to the movies alone and read lonely into my small dining room table has always kept herself so busy that she rarely has a moment to herself. Maybe she's totally fine with that, but I'd go crazy. Alone does not equal lonely, but some people think that it does.
 
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I'm not exactly shy in social situations myself, I just see many of them as timewasters.

Also, I was thinking (out loud again, I know)...my ability to do things alone can hinder me too, because both men and women have said to me, "You're so independent already; what can I bring to the table?"

A few folks think because I can get by independently of anyone else, that's the way I want it to be and that's not always the case. True, I'd rather be alone than spend time with people I don't like just to avoid aloneness, but I'd like to meet folks too - but only if they're on my level.
 

Rarri

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Oh I'm not against relationships...love 'em. When they're genuine. I'm just growing out of that need to have 'make up the numbers' friendships, I think. It's very liberating, though at the same time tiring when it comes to explaining to people that no, you don't want them to go shopping with you and yes, you do like going to the cinema alone.

Probably a slight derail - well, more of a thread evolution I think, but...do you think it's jealousy in a way? Or awe? That there are folks out there who can do things (to use an Oprah-ism) 'with themselves'?

That sounds slightly rude...

I think there's a lot to be said for going 'out' on your own; my hubby frequently goes to the cinema on his own but it's not something i'd be all that happy doing. I think part of the problem is that some people can't comprehend that doing something alone can be a choice, rather than the result of being 'anti-social'.

I'm thankful that i've got good friends and i don't know, somehow they just work. But i have to admit, they aren't exactly 'local'; one just sort of flings herself around the planet and every few months lands back in Scotland but she's one of my closest friends, we just pick up where ever we left off; another is a thirty minute drive away but it's worth the distance because we get on so well.

Eurgh. I'm having a day of pointless rambles. Somebody kick my ass back to Word. Please...?
 
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