Photo development in '78-'79

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TheNightTerror

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I had a few ideas for something to add to my story, so I thought I'd ask you guys for advice. :) Is there anyone here who knows something about how photo developing worked in the late seventies? Basically, I'm thinking of throwing my 17 year old main character into a job developing photos, but she hasn't had any experience with it before. Any kind of info on the training she'd need to take, how photos were developed back then, whether they'd started the one hour photo business or not, etc., would really help.

The idea I had came out of nowhere, probably less than 15 minutes ago it didn't exist, but it could be quite a bit of fun to work with. Assuming the character's age and experience with photos isn't going to make her getting the job impossible. (If it would make a difference, she'll probably be in Denver when she starts the job, either Denver or a small town not far from Oklahoma City.)

Thanks for the help. :Thumbs: You guys are life savers. :D:Hail:
 

Fern

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I sure don't remember having 1 hour photo anywhere near me around 78/79. If we dropped film off at Walmart, but took 3 to 5 days seems like. A lot of people dropped theirs at drug stores also.

Perhaps she could have worked for a studio that did their own developing. I remember applying for a job at a photographers studio around 73 or so and being shown the "darkroom" since learning to develop film would have been part of the job. All I remember was they dipped the film in some solution and left it for a certain length of time, then hung the photos to dry. (Don't know what if any steps were in between.) Its conceivable that your person might have worked for a place like that and been trained "on the job".
 

Cathy C

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Hi, TheNightTerror,

I asked my hubby, who was a professional photographer in the 70's. Here's the scoop for you:

No one-hour photos unless it happened to be a local phenomenon. But not in Denver, since that's where he lived in the 70s.

The first thing your character would have to deal with is that she would have to be able to work in a completely dark room -- absolutely no light. According to hubby, this really freaks a lot of people out. She would have to break apart 35mm film cartridges in the dark, wind the film onto a stainless steel spool so it doesn't stick together. Then, the reel goes into a stainless steel tank with a lid that liquids get poured in and out. It has an internal baffle in it that is "light tight" so the developer has to do all of this in the dark to run the film process. B/w prints can use the red light you often see in movies, but color prints (most common 35mm film at the time) have to be developed in complete dark.

You might place her in a black and white portrait studio, since it's a bit easier for a beginner. Usually a person graduated from b/w to color in the business, because you have to get the hang of it slowly.

There are three steps to film developing, and the chemicals used:

Developer
Stop bath, which stops the developing process
Fixer, which basically removes the excess silver halides from the film so they don't turn black. (BTW -- Kodak and Fuji are the largest buyers of pure silver in the world!)

Adding each of the chemicals to the "can" or stainless steel container requires flushing and filling with the next chemical in the dark. Easy to mix up the bottles without practice.

She would come out of the darkroom with her hands and clothing smelling of chemicals, mostly acidic acid, which is very sour, and stronger than vinegar. Hubby said that he used to keep a bottle of aftershave in the dark room to cover the smell before he went back into public. People stare and comment otherwise.

Temperature is VERY important. The darkroom has to be kept at exactly 72 degrees, which means that the chemicals would be 68 degrees. If they get too hot, the process will occur faster and screw up the prints. If it's too cold it will be too slow and you'll apply the fixer before the image is fully on the paper so it's faded.

The most common mess-ups of a newbie:

Forgetting to set the Timer for the chemical baths. Happens all the time and ruins the whole roll.

Not placing the film on the Reel correctly. Remember it's done in TOTAL darkness, so all by feel. If the film touches itself, it sticks together and ruins those frames.

Forgetting to lock the door and having someone walk in and turn on the Light before you fully shut the lid on the can. Lots of swearing in a photo lab! LOL!

Knocking things over, so Dexterity. He couldn't remember the number of times he knocked over cans of chemicals onto himself. Even the pros do it, so it's important to remember to put the cap back on the chemicals AS SOON as it's been poured

Ruining Paper. Again, photo image paper can only be opened in the dark. Drop a box or knock it over with the lights on, and bam -- a whole box ruined.

Hope that helps with your newbie developer! Good luck!
 

TheNightTerror

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Fern said:
Perhaps she could have worked for a studio that did their own developing. I remember applying for a job at a photographers studio around 73 or so and being shown the "darkroom" since learning to develop film would have been part of the job. All I remember was they dipped the film in some solution and left it for a certain length of time, then hung the photos to dry. (Don't know what if any steps were in between.) Its conceivable that your person might have worked for a place like that and been trained "on the job".

Hmmm, it would probably work for her first photo developing job. For the ideas I had, she'd need to be working in a place that saw a lot of customers. But working at a studio first would probably be best, just so she'd have enough experience to get another job.

Cathy C said:
Hi, TheNightTerror,

I asked my hubby, who was a professional photographer in the 70's. Here's the scoop for you:

:Hail:

No one-hour photos unless it happened to be a local phenomenon. But not in Denver, since that's where he lived in the 70s.

Perfect! :) Actually, if anything, I was hoping they wouldn't be around, so that's great news for me. :D

The first thing your character would have to deal with is that she would have to be able to work in a completely dark room -- absolutely no light. According to hubby, this really freaks a lot of people out. She would have to break apart 35mm film cartridges in the dark, wind the film onto a stainless steel spool so it doesn't stick together. Then, the reel goes into a stainless steel tank with a lid that liquids get poured in and out. It has an internal baffle in it that is "light tight" so the developer has to do all of this in the dark to run the film process. B/w prints can use the red light you often see in movies, but color prints (most common 35mm film at the time) have to be developed in complete dark.

Hmmm. Actually, it's sounding like something that would work for the character. When she gets the job, she'd be in a fairly dark time in her life. She'd have gone through so much that working alone would be something she'd prefer, and depressed people seem to prefer the dark most of the time.

You might place her in a black and white portrait studio, since it's a bit easier for a beginner. Usually a person graduated from b/w to color in the business, because you have to get the hang of it slowly.

Yeah, it would probably work out pretty good that way. She'd probably work in a B&W studio in Denver, and maybe upgrade to color pictures just before moving to Oklahoma, where she'd be developing color photos for a grocery/drug store.

Adding each of the chemicals to the "can" or stainless steel container requires flushing and filling with the next chemical in the dark. Easy to mix up the bottles without practice.

:) Okay, I'll remember that. It would probably be something she'd mess up when she's stressing out big time, but otherwise, she'd be able to pull it off.

She would come out of the darkroom with her hands and clothing smelling of chemicals, mostly acidic acid, which is very sour, and stronger than vinegar. Hubby said that he used to keep a bottle of aftershave in the dark room to cover the smell before he went back into public. People stare and comment otherwise.

She wouldn't care much about what people thought of her, but she loves her car, and she wouldn't want it reeking. She's not a typical girly girl, she probably wouldn't even have perfume or anything scented to put on. Methinks she'd be bringing along a change of clothes, and maybe scented soap for her hands.

Temperature is VERY important. The darkroom has to be kept at exactly 72 degrees, which means that the chemicals would be 68 degrees. If they get too hot, the process will occur faster and screw up the prints. If it's too cold it will be too slow and you'll apply the fixer before the image is fully on the paper so it's faded.

Another way the important pictures she develops could get messed up . . . :D

The most common mess-ups of a newbie:

Forgetting to set the Timer for the chemical baths. Happens all the time and ruins the whole roll.

Not placing the film on the Reel correctly. Remember it's done in TOTAL darkness, so all by feel. If the film touches itself, it sticks together and ruins those frames.

Forgetting to lock the door and having someone walk in and turn on the Light before you fully shut the lid on the can. Lots of swearing in a photo lab! LOL!

Knocking things over, so Dexterity. He couldn't remember the number of times he knocked over cans of chemicals onto himself. Even the pros do it, so it's important to remember to put the cap back on the chemicals AS SOON as it's been poured

Ruining Paper. Again, photo image paper can only be opened in the dark. Drop a box or knock it over with the lights on, and bam -- a whole box ruined.

Hope that helps with your newbie developer! Good luck!

That helps a TON. :Hail::D Thank you! You definitely stopped me from a mistake, I would've had the dark room lit with a red light when she was developing color photos. I was thinking of having her see developing negatives that make her freak out and end up rushing the process, and ruining the roll. Sounds to me like that just can't be done with color photos, but B&W, maybe. Then again, I have a ton of ways she could mess up the photos now, by accident or not. :Thumbs:

How long did the whole developing process take? Several days, a few hours, somewhere in between? :)

Thank you both for the info. :) I'm falling more and more in love with this place every question I ask, it's stopped me from making many stupid mistakes. :D It's too bad I didn't find this place sooner. :)
 

katiemac

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The first thing your character would have to deal with is that she would have to be able to work in a completely dark room -- absolutely no light.

I don't know how modern a development this is, but when I took photo classes we put the film on the reel by using a large black bag that had holes on either end for your arms it kept the light out that way.

Incidentally - and I don't mean to hijack the thread in any means - I think the process has always been pretty much the same, with the Developer and Stop and everything else. Does anyone know what how much the process differed in the late 1800s? The process won't be descibed, but a few characters do end up in an old dark room at one point (serves now as a bedroom) where a few photos were abandoned in the process of developing/drying.
 

SeanDSchaffer

I seem to remember, when I was little, a lot of grocery store parking lots had a drive-up booth called a 'Fotomat.' You would drop off your film, without leaving the confines of your automobile, and come back several days later to retrieve your photographs and negatives.

They didn't last long into the 80's, but for some reason you can sometimes drive into a grocery store parking lot and even today find an abandoned Fotomat stand in its original 70's form: yellow roof, blue sides, dark blue lettering on top of the roof. Lately, a number of these booths have been transformed into espresso stands, at least in my area.

There were, to my knowledge, no 1-hour photo developers in the late 70's. You usually took your film to a store and dropped it off, coming back several days--sometimes a week, depending on the type of film you dropped off--later to pick up the finished product.
 

TheNightTerror

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SeanDSchaffer said:
I seem to remember, when I was little, a lot of grocery store parking lots had a drive-up booth called a 'Fotomat.' You would drop off your film, without leaving the confines of your automobile, and come back several days later to retrieve your photographs and negatives.

Ah, perfect! :Thumbs: She'll work at one of those places at some point, that would be the perfect kind of place. She wouldn't have any way of knowing when a person would pick up a set of photos. Were they right up against the building, like a drive through at a fast food place?

They didn't last long into the 80's, but for some reason you can sometimes drive into a grocery store parking lot and even today find an abandoned Fotomat stand in its original 70's form: yellow roof, blue sides, dark blue lettering on top of the roof. Lately, a number of these booths have been transformed into espresso stands, at least in my area.

You can never go wrong when you convert something into a way of selling caffeine. :D

There were, to my knowledge, no 1-hour photo developers in the late 70's. You usually took your film to a store and dropped it off, coming back several days--sometimes a week, depending on the type of film you dropped off--later to pick up the finished product.

Ah, okay. I'll probably go with a week. I always use exact dates when I write, and I always have a ton of trouble when I try to move dates forward. It's way easier to bump them backwards. :)
 

SeanDSchaffer

re Fotomat

TheNightTerror said:
Ah, perfect! :Thumbs: She'll work at one of those places at some point, that would be the perfect kind of place. She wouldn't have any way of knowing when a person would pick up a set of photos. Were they right up against the building, like a drive through at a fast food place?


Actually, NightTerror, I'm not certain of this but if I remember correctly, Fotomat used to call people to let them know their film was ready. But I myself have never used Fotomat, so I don't honestly remember.

Also, you may want to check to see if my spelling was correct on the business name. It may have been 'Photomat.' (In fact, just to be certain, I'll do a google on those two names shortly and get back to you.)

In answer to your question, "Were they right up against the building, like a drive through at a fast food place?" Yes, they were. You would drive up to the window and pick up your film, just like you would pick up an order at the local McDonald's, the only difference being the building was a little booth that today might hold a decent-sized ATM or, like stated before, an espresso stand.

--On a side note, one of the characters in the movie 'Police Academy' (either the first one or the second one--maybe both) worked in just such a kiosk.--

If I'm not mistaken, a local strip mall (Danielson Hilltop Mall in Oregon City, OR.) still has one of these kiosks in original condition, down to the interior itself. They became obsolete with the development (no pun intended) of in-store one-hour-photo labs.

Of course, this information is from memory only. I'll be sure to look up 'Fotomat' and 'Photomat' to be certain my information is correct.
 

SeanDSchaffer

Okay, what little I found on the photo kiosks

I googled Fotomat like I said I would, and I found they were not spelled 'Fotomat,' but rather 'PhotoMat.' Another such business was Shutterbug--I believe that latter company might still be in business.

Very little information was available through my search. Most of the information I found, consisted of opinion. What I've gleaned about PhotoMat from these opinions was that 1) people who remember them did not think highly of the photo quality, 2) PhotoMat was not a great job in many people's opinions, 3) PhotoMats were by many considered cramped spaces to have to work in, and 4) many people thought they were the ugliest looking kiosks they'd ever seen in their lives.

Overall, from what I've learned, they were most likely entry-level jobs. Pick-up film from customer; send to developer; pick up film from developer; wait for customer to drive up; give to customer.

That's what I've gotten from the massive listing of no more than 100 hits on the subject through Google.

I hope this will help you out, and I wish you all the best with your work.

:)
 

TheNightTerror

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SeanDSchaffer said:
Actually, NightTerror, I'm not certain of this but if I remember correctly, Fotomat used to call people to let them know their film was ready. But I myself have never used Fotomat, so I don't honestly remember.

Still, if they did call, unless the character made the call, she wouldn't know the customer was on the way, theoretically? So, she could easily be working on another roll when the person she wanted to watch out for picked up the film. :)

In answer to your question, "Were they right up against the building, like a drive through at a fast food place?" Yes, they were. You would drive up to the window and pick up your film, just like you would pick up an order at the local McDonald's, the only difference being the building was a little booth that today might hold a decent-sized ATM or, like stated before, an espresso stand.

Ah, okay. :) Thanks! :D

--On a side note, one of the characters in the movie 'Police Academy' (either the first one or the second one--maybe both) worked in just such a kiosk.--

Oh. Oh, man. I think my parents have both of them, but I heard they're horrible . . . do I watch them as research . . . oh, the agony. :tongue

If I'm not mistaken, a local strip mall (Danielson Hilltop Mall in Oregon City, OR.) still has one of these kiosks in original condition, down to the interior itself. They became obsolete with the development (no pun intended) of in-store one-hour-photo labs.

Heh, it would be kinda funny to take a trip there soley for the kiosk . . . too short on money to do it right now. :(

SeanDSchaffer said:
I googled Fotomat like I said I would, and I found they were not spelled 'Fotomat,' but rather 'PhotoMat.' Another such business was Shutterbug--I believe that latter company might still be in business.

Ah, okay. I haven't gotten far enough into the story to need the info, so I'll remember that. :)

Very little information was available through my search. Most of the information I found, consisted of opinion. What I've gleaned about PhotoMat from these opinions was that 1) people who remember them did not think highly of the photo quality, 2) PhotoMat was not a great job in many people's opinions, 3) PhotoMats were by many considered cramped spaces to have to work in, and 4) many people thought they were the ugliest looking kiosks they'd ever seen in their lives.

Basically, a crappy job that someone who's any good at developing photos wouldn't go to? The character would just be starting off, probably just stepping into color photos, a job where nobody expects quality would probably work for her. :)

Overall, from what I've learned, they were most likely entry-level jobs. Pick-up film from customer; send to developer; pick up film from developer; wait for customer to drive up; give to customer.

Okay, thank you. :)

That's what I've gotten from the massive listing of no more than 100 hits on the subject through Google.

Man, you gotta hate it when Google can't help much. :( Thank you for going through that stuff for me, though. :) I would've checked it out myself, but I was burning up the ol' keyboard working on my story.

I hope this will help you out, and I wish you all the best with your work.

:)

It helps quite a bit, she was going to have a job in a grocery store type place to begin with, that kind of a job would be absolutely perfect. Thank you for your help! :Thumbs: God, this story is starting to scare me, before I was trying to pad out stories, this one, I'm just keeping the pace up and not bothering with filler, and it's up to 348 pages, the end's still quite a ways to go yet . . . :eek:
 

SeanDSchaffer

TheNightTerror said:
Thank you for your help! :Thumbs:

You're quite welcome. I'm glad I could be of service.

TheNightTerror said:
God, this story is starting to scare me, before I was trying to pad out stories, this one, I'm just keeping the pace up and not bothering with filler, and it's up to 348 pages, the end's still quite a ways to go yet . . . :eek:


348 pages? Oh, man! My first book wasn't quite that long, and I worked on it for 17 years. All that time, I thought it was an epic. :Smack: Best wishes to you on this present work. It sounds like you're really having fun with it. :Thumbs:

Have a great weekend.
 

TheNightTerror

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SeanDSchaffer said:
348 pages? Oh, man! My first book wasn't quite that long, and I worked on it for 17 years. All that time, I thought it was an epic. :Smack:

:Jaw: 17 years?! Oh man, I never would've been able to stick to one story for 17 years. How long was it? The longest story I've ever managed was about 500 pages long, I did that in under 2 months. (Of writing about 6+ hours a day, every day.) I don't know why, but most of the time, I could never concentrate on the same story more than 2 months. :Shrug:

Best wishes to you on this present work. It sounds like you're really having fun with it. :Thumbs:

Oh, hell yes, I'm having tons of fun. :D It's not my normal type of story, I'm mainly just trying out a few things I wanted to try for a long time with this one. I guess just because I waited so long, lots of ideas got backed up, and now this story's getting them all. But, considering how much fun I'm having, I really don't care if I'm going to end up with another 500 page story. :)

Have a great weekend.

You too. :D I'll probably spend mine slaving away at the computer. :tongue
 

SeanDSchaffer

TheNightTerror said:
:Jaw: 17 years?! Oh man, I never would've been able to stick to one story for 17 years. How long was it? The longest story I've ever managed was about 500 pages long, I did that in under 2 months. (Of writing about 6+ hours a day, every day.) I don't know why, but most of the time, I could never concentrate on the same story more than 2 months. :Shrug:

My Emphasis.

If I remember correctly, NightTerror, it was somewhere around 320 pages. And to tell you the truth, I had other stories going off-and-on for some time while I was also working on that one.

But I wish I could write a 500 page story, myself. That would be an epic book in more ways than one. Any time I see a book that thick....

Wait a minute....:idea:

When I sent my other manuscript to PublishAmerica, it was typed in Times New Roman, Point Size 12, Single-Spaced. Nowadays, I write manuscripts in Courier New, Point Size 12, Double-Spaced. I found out from Uncle Jim that Courier is more acceptable by many editors than Times New Roman.

Flight of the Rocnah is 74 pages long in the old format. But I counted the words to be roughly 55,000--as you probably know, that's a decent-sized novel where word-count is concerned.

What I'm saying is that the old novel was 320 pages long in the format I used to use. I wonder how many pages that would translate into had I used the correct format.

I'll look that up pretty soon. Although the final printed copy was 259 pages, well, PA is known, among other things, for cramming big works into small page-counts for reasons I can't figure. But I'd be interested in seeing how many pages long old Wyverinia Chronicles would be in the Courier New, 12-Point, Double-Spaced format.

Sorry to go off on a tangent with you, NightTerror. It's just that after 23 years of writing, I still know so little about the business of it that when I do learn something new, I'm like a kid with a new toy.

I'll talk to you later, and I wish you the best of success with your book.
 
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