Sales in Urban Fantasy

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Straka

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UF is a curious genre. For the most part, I think it is safe to say most American children - exposed to media - are raised on fantasy. The first movie I remember was a Disney flick. Even from an early age we're instilled with tales of fantasy from books, shows, movies featuring talking dogs, princess, Santa Claus... etc. Look at Harry Potter, I've met more than a few kids that have admitted they hated reading until they read Harry Potter.

Then there comes a point where fantasy becomes uncool for the majority (middle school).

I'm wondering if the marketing power of UF comes from bottling fantasy into the modern era and thus restoring the "cool" factor of fantasy for young adults and adults. From a sales perspective then UF is gaining readership that perhaps would not fall into the fantasy category previously.
 

Ardent Kat

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I'm wondering if the marketing power of UF comes from bottling fantasy into the modern era and thus restoring the "cool" factor of fantasy for young adults and adults. From a sales perspective then UF is gaining readership that perhaps would not fall into the fantasy category previously.

I would have said "respectable" rather than "cool", but yeah. I think some readers may feel ashamed to be caught in public with a SF/F book, but having it grounded in a real-world setting makes it just mundane enough to excuse to one's friends. (I say, "Screw that noise and read what you like!") Otherwise, if you like fantasy elements, why not go all-out? Or are readers too alienated by a wholly different world?

I've noticed an increasing number of agents who represent UF, but not SF/F, which makes me scratch my head. Are they just after the sales or are they, too, only interested in the subgenre and not the larger umbrella?
 

ChaosTitan

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I've noticed an increasing number of agents who represent UF, but not SF/F, which makes me scratch my head. Are they just after the sales or are they, too, only interested in the subgenre and not the larger umbrella?

Readers have preferences, so there's no reason agents can't. I love UF to pieces, but don't particularly care for hard SF or most traditional fantasy. No reason why an agent can't have similar preferences.
 

5bcarnies

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I love UF to pieces, but don't particularly care for hard SF or most traditional fantasy. No reason why an agent can't have similar preferences.

I am right there with you. It takes a lot of pushing from my husband to get me to read a hard SF. He loves them. But when I try to get him to read anything UF its like pulling teeth.

And your welcome. I figured with all the discussion with UF recently this might put some things into 'marketing perspective'.

Also, I've been having a hard time finding UF agents. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I've looked in the normal places but I must be missing something.
 

Nakhlasmoke

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I like both, but I get turned off by the more clichéd offerings in both genre subsets.

My reading of UF and F is getting narrower and narrower these days, sadly.
 

Straka

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I've noticed an increasing number of agents who represent UF, but not SF/F, which makes me scratch my head. Are they just after the sales or are they, too, only interested in the subgenre and not the larger umbrella?

I would think they're after the sales, that's what agents do. :) Books that cross genres have the potential to do better since they can attract a larger audience. It's all speculation but I'd imagine non-traditionally fantasy agents are now more comfortable selling UF to pubs because the market has increased and the editors they know are more receptive to UF.

Again from my own limited perspective, I feel that the surge in UF is partly a backlash from the last few years being dominated by LOTR style books. For myself I got a little tired of reading high fantasy, good vs evil, and started both reading and writing gritter and darker works with more moral ambiguity. Both traits I find lend themselves to UF well. (Though I've liked UF for the last fifteen years when I first saw Shadow Run as a kid)

I'd wager at least a dollar that some of this new gritter perspective has to do with political events as well. I remember reading a review of the new Bond series in the NY times, and they said this new Bond is gritter as a reflection of the times of a post 9/11 world, where people are more jaded and looking for, what they feel is a more realistic story. Looking at the revisioning of Batman, much more darker.
 

AceTachyon

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I'd wager at least a dollar that some of this new gritter perspective has to do with political events as well. I remember reading a review of the new Bond series in the NY times, and they said this new Bond is gritter as a reflection of the times of a post 9/11 world, where people are more jaded and looking for, what they feel is a more realistic story. Looking at the revisioning of Batman, much more darker.
With regard to the revisioning of Batman: referring to the films, yes?

I'm pretty certain the darker Batman was introduced back in the 80s with Miller's Dark Night Returns (Batman scholars, correct me if I'm mistaken--at least that was my intro to a dark Bats)
 

AceTachyon

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Again from my own limited perspective, I feel that the surge in UF is partly a backlash from the last few years being dominated by LOTR style books. For myself I got a little tired of reading high fantasy, good vs evil, and started both reading and writing gritter and darker works with more moral ambiguity. Both traits I find lend themselves to UF well. (Though I've liked UF for the last fifteen years when I first saw Shadow Run as a kid)
But LOTR-style books have been out for quite some time now. Perhaps GRRM's series gave it wider play, but I could've sworn the Shannara books also hit the NYT lists.

And Shadowrun wasn't the only mix of fantasy and modern day back in the 80s/90s. Didn't Mercedes Lackey give us elves in L.A.?

I wonder why the UF surge didn't happen earlier than now?
 
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Straka

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With regard to the revisioning of Batman: referring to the films, yes?

I'm pretty certain the darker Batman was introduced back in the 80s with Miller's Dark Night Returns (Batman scholars, correct me if I'm mistaken--at least that was my intro to a dark Bats)

Yes I'm referring to the film. Certainly Frank Miller's work was much earlier, but look at Tim Burton's version of Batman in the early 90s. Very different.

Film-wise I should clarify, when I'm thinking of these examples, it is not only "dark" subject matter but its treatment, hand-held shots - more documentary style camera work. District 9, Black Hawk Down, The Kingdom are some examples of this.
 

Straka

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But LOTR-style books have been out for quite some time now. Perhaps GRRM's series gave it wider play, but I could've sworn the Shannara books also hit the NYT lists.

Certainly. I just wonder if a few years after the movies and other books like Eragon, it hit market saturation and some people started looking into other genres of stories. Obviously Robert Jordan’s works still sell. Sharnara I'm sure did as well.


And Shadowrun wasn't the only mix of fantasy and modern day back in the 80s/90s. Didn't Mercedes Lackey give us elves in L.A.?

[FONT=&quot]I’m sure it wasn’t. It was merely my first experience with UF. [/FONT]

I wonder why the UF surge didn't happen earlier than now?

Again, just my personal hunch, it’s because of my comment above with market saturation and cross genre works like Twilight and Harris’ Dead Before Dawn which tie into the very popular genre of romance. I don't have any numbers to back this up though.


What do people think?
 
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AceTachyon

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[FONT=&quot]I’m sure it wasn’t. It was merely my first experience with UF.
[/FONT]
Yeah, I recall elves showing up at a SoCal Ren Faire in one of the books.

Again, just my personal hunch, it’s because of my comment above with market saturation and cross genre works like Twilight
I'm also curious, in particular with something like Twilight.

Rice had done the vampire thing years before, true, but the only YA vampire series I can remember was from Christopher Pike. And I don't recall that one ever taking off like Twilight did.

Makes me wonder if Harry Potter had anything to do with it. Claimed to get kids back into reading. Perhaps that opened them up to be receptive to books like Twilight?
 

Leanan-Sidhe

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Makes me wonder if Harry Potter had anything to do with it. Claimed to get kids back into reading. Perhaps that opened them up to be receptive to books like Twilight?

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Especially since a lot of the YA I see on the shelves these days is fantasy.
 

Alan Yee

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Makes me wonder if Harry Potter had anything to do with it. Claimed to get kids back into reading. Perhaps that opened them up to be receptive to books like Twilight?

Even though I'm seventeen, I rarely read YA, so I couldn't tell you for sure about that. I've read all 7 Harry Potters, but not Twilight or its sequels.
 

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Twilight is a phenomenon, no matter what anyone thinks of the books. The chances of this sort of phenomenon repeating itself in the near future is very, very slim.

Paranormal YA's have existed for a long, long time. I remember reading RL Stine, Christopher Pike, and LJ Smith as a teen, and craving those types of stories. They led me to Stephen King, Anne Rice, and more adult fare. Twilight's affect was twofold: 1) It brought the genre to the forefront of the media and to folks who'd never bothered to read it before, and 2) It brought in new readers.

I can personally attest to #2, because I have several friends who, after reading Twilight, have looked for other, similar books. So they discovered paranormal YA because of Twilight. But Twilight did not create or spawn the genre, any more than Laurel K Hamilton spawned the current sexy-vamp trend.

Not only are more new books being published in this genre, but old classics are being reissued. Look at the LJ Smith books--both The Vampire Diaries and Night World series have been reissued in omnibus editions, not to mention TVD will be a CW series this fall. So if Twilight did anything, it reinvigorated an existing genre.

And from what I understand of HP, I can't imagine who it would have made other folks more receptive to Twilight. They seem to be very, very different animals.
 

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And from what I understand of HP, I can't imagine who it would have made other folks more receptive to Twilight. They seem to be very, very different animals.

I'm guessing the comparison is just because they're both UF and they attract both YA and adult readership, which means $$$ for selling to both markets. I've known writers who intentionally hope to follow in that vein that has cross-appeal to both YA and adult, but I think it's unwise to choose your genre in hopes of big cash. The story should always come first. If it happens to appeal to both young and adult readers, that's an added bonus.
 

ChaosTitan

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Strictly speaking, though, neither Twilight, nor Harry Potter, are UF.

Harry Potter is fantasy. The first book was specifically middle-grade, which is a much younger audience than your typical YA (to say nothing of adult fiction) audience.

Twilight is YA romance.
 
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