Comparing a character to another well-known fictional character?

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

I think this has been covered before, but I couldn't find it. I was wondering what people thought about a casual mention of another well-known fictional character when describing someone in your prose? I'll just post the sentence in my work that I am wondering about:

The woman, Althea Trick, would storm into a room like Cruella Deville, eager to step on toes and wreak havoc.

I think it gives an immediate picture...and one that really describes the character well. But is it lazy? As a reader, do you tolerate references like this? Should I delete it? Would you accept it and just keep on reading or would it grate on you?

Cassiopeia · Aug 25, 2009

For me, it's fine. I even smiled at the reference. The only question I would have is, if everyone would get the reference. Other than that, I can't really see a problem.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

Cassiopeia said:
For me, it's fine. I even smiled at the reference. The only question I would have is, if everyone would get the reference. Other than that, I can't really see a problem.

Thanks, Kim. I did think about that...well not as I was writing it. As I wrote it, it just came out. But I thought, "Would the majority of people get the reference?" and I decided, "yes...it's pretty much a household name." I would be leery of using a fictional name that I wouldn't consider household...without a doubt.

john barnes on toast · Aug 25, 2009

My initial response would be lazy, but context is everything.

Cassiopeia · Aug 25, 2009

KTC said:
Thanks, Kim. I did think about that...well not as I was writing it. As I wrote it, it just came out. But I thought, "Would the majority of people get the reference?" and I decided, "yes...it's pretty much a household name." I would be leery of using a fictional name that I wouldn't consider household...without a doubt.

Well, for what it's worth, on Sunday my family was watching, The Devil Wears Prada, and all at the same time we said, "Cruella!". So I think it's a pretty safe bet.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

Cassiopeia said:
Well, for what it's worth, on Sunday my family was watching, The Devil Wears Prada, and all at the same time we said, "Cruella!". So I think it's a pretty safe bet.

lol. When I saw the trailer for that I immediately thought the character was fashioned after Cruella. (-;

Cassiopeia · Aug 25, 2009

KTC said:
lol. When I saw the trailer for that I immediately thought the character was fashioned after Cruella. (-;

Seriously! She just HAS to be. I loved that movie so much though. So if you use it, I will have to admit that your character is going to remind me of Meryl Streep in that role.

So I guess that begs the question if you want that image running through your reader's head.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

john barnes on toast said:
My initial response would be lazy, but context is everything.

Thanks John. I wonder about that. The context here would be introducing a character who is actually dead. It's at the beginning of a chapter and it briefly describes her to get to why her daughter may be crazy. There are only about 3 set-up paragraphs on Althea as it explains the estrangement in the mother/daughter relationship. Later, there is more on Althea...but for now, it's just a short set-up. I guess I was going for giving the reader a quick glimpse of who she is.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

Cassiopeia said:
Seriously! She just HAS to be. I loved that movie so much though. So if you use it, I will have to admit that your character is going to remind me of Meryl Streep in that role.

So I guess that begs the question if you want that image running through your reader's head.

ha. I thought of that also. The immediate image even of a cartoon character...or of Glen Close as Cruella. I guess I'm looking for the immediate realization of over-controlling mean bitch. It could just get me cheese though?

Cassiopeia · Aug 25, 2009

KTC said:
ha. I thought of that also. The immediate image even of a cartoon character...or of Glen Close as Cruella. I guess I'm looking for the immediate realization of over-controlling mean bitch. It could just get me cheese though?

hmmm...I haven't seen that version of 101 Dalmatians in a LONG time. I don't like Glen Close either. LOL.

yeah, I know, I'm not helping.

kayleamay · Aug 25, 2009

I liked it, but I would agree that I'm not sure everyone would get the reference. I was Cruelly for Halloween last year. (Had the whole get up, right down to the dalmation purse and long cigarette thingy-ma-bob) and there were a number of people who didn't know who I/she was.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

Okay. I'm not posting this for critique (it is first draft ugly still) but just to give a fuller context to how I used it. In this context, is the mention of Cruella needed/warranted?

My grandmother, Maggie’s mom, was a miasma of jumpsuits, bleached-blonde hair and cigarettes. I can still remember her overly long fingernails; how she painted them in gaudy colours, but never stealthily enough to hide the yellowed stains of age from showing through.

One only had to look at her to understand how Maggie could have gone so wrong. The woman, Althea Trick, would storm into a room like Cruella Deville, eager to step on toes and wreak havoc.

Maggie once told me, during a moment of weakness, how truly afraid of her mother she was. Deathly so, I would say, by the way she looked around herself in the telling—as though the woman was within hearing distance and ready to strike. She never did tell me what went on in her home-life though. She just made sure that her adult life contained as little of Althea Trick as possible.

She was more than capable of keeping her distance, too, until the woman up and died on her.

john barnes on toast · Aug 25, 2009

KTC said:
Thanks John. I wonder about that. The context here would be introducing a character who is actually dead. It's at the beginning of a chapter and it briefly describes her to get to why her daughter may be crazy. There are only about 3 set-up paragraphs on Althea as it explains the estrangement in the mother/daughter relationship. Later, there is more on Althea...but for now, it's just a short set-up. I guess I was going for giving the reader a quick glimpse of who she is.

I think the most significant thing is whose POV the observation is being made through.
If it's a character for whom making that kind of cultural reference would be natural, then not really a problem, as long as tonally it's inkeeping with the rest of book.

What I would find problematic is if it's a made by an otherwise neutral or omniscient narrator. It's very tricky for a non-character narrator to successfully inject cultural references without betraying the authorial hand.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

john barnes on toast said:
I think the most significant thing is whose POV the observation is being made through.
If it's a character for whom making that kind of cultural reference would be natural, then not really a problem, as long as tonally it's inkeeping with the rest of book.

What I would find problematic is if it's a made by an otherwise neutral or omniscient narrator. It's very tricky for a non-character narrator to successfully inject cultural references without betraying the authorial hand.

it's the woman's 20 something grandson. first person.

john barnes on toast · Aug 25, 2009

ah, you kind of answered my POV question while I was typing.

Cyia · Aug 25, 2009

It seems to me the reference might be more effective if it wasn't delivered in description, but dialogue from another character. Then you can give a frame of reference for those who might need a reminder who the character is.

(The cheesy version being

"Here comes Cruella."
"I hear dalmatians are in season."

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

Cyia said:
It seems to me the reference might be more effective if it wasn't delivered in description, but dialogue from another character. Then you can give a frame of reference for those who might need a reminder who the character is.

(The cheesy version being

"Here comes Cruella."
"I hear dalmatians are in season."

That's a great observation. Dialogue would change it completely. Thank you for the insight.

john barnes on toast · Aug 25, 2009

KTC said:
I guess I'm looking for the immediate realization of over-controlling mean bitch.

but that's exactly why it could be construed as being lazy.

You're letting Dodie Smith and Walt Disney do the work for you.

If we were to extend the argument to a ridiculous level, a writer could get to a position whereby they end up writing things like 'we got in the car, and there was a chase just like the one in the Bourne Identity'.

Obviously my example would be at the bottom of the hill whereas yours would be toward the top, but they are still on the same theoretical slippery slope.

maestrowork · Aug 25, 2009

The problem with references is that if the readers are not aware of them, then they're lost. Granted, probably most people know who Cruella DeVille and 101 Dalmatians are, but there's always a risk of depending totally on pop culture references as descriptors. It would be akin to saying, "He looked handsome like Cary Grant." On one hand the reference is a quick way of drawing parallels and describe a character, but on other hand it does feel a bit too convenient.

I do like the idea of using dialogue instead of narrative.

But anyway, I think your example is fine and it works simply because I know the reference. Just cautioning about depending on pop culture references to do the work. Often when I read something like that and I didn't know the references, my eyes would gloss over or for a moment it would take me out of the story: "what/who the heck was that?"

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

john barnes on toast said:
but that's exactly why it could be construed as being lazy.

You're letting Dodie Smith and Walt Disney do the work for you.

If we were to extend the argument to a ridiculous level, a writer could get to a position whereby they end up writing things like 'we got in the car, and there was a chase just like the one in the Bourne Identity'.

Obviously my example would be at the bottom of the hill whereas yours would be toward the top, but they are still on the same theoretical slippery slope.

excellent point. thank you.

Priene · Aug 25, 2009

I think Cruella is widely enough known that you can use it in this fashion. But it's Cruella de Vil.

KTC · Aug 25, 2009

Priene said:
I think Cruella is widely enough known that you can use it in this fashion. But it's Cruella de Vil.

lol. you're right of course. oops.

CaroGirl · Aug 25, 2009

I don't think it's lazy, necessarily, provided most people know the pop culture reference. I think it's done all the time. If that method best describes the character, use it. However, I'd be extremely bothered by the misspelling. It's Cruella De Vil.

ETA: Priene beat me to it by a nanosecond.

MsGneiss · Aug 25, 2009

I don't have a problem with pop culture references at all, but I think when you fall back on a known character to describe your own, you cut yourself short. Also, you may form lingering associations that are not always to your advantage. Now, I will always think of your character as Cruella De Vil - and, whatever change and development you attempt later will likely be lost on me. Is that something you want to risk? Use prose to create the same effect without bogging me down with a mental image that I won't be able to disassociate later.

sommemi · Aug 25, 2009

I agree with sleepsheep that even though it's a comparison that works and most likely will be recognized, you are really limiting your reader's imagination to JUST that image... and each of them might remember a different Cruella... the cartoon? The movie? Prada? Whichever, but instead of letting them take the description and compare it to their own real-life Cruella (Mother-in-Law, Mean Aunt Tessie, Cousin Gertrude) then they are stuck with that movie written image. If this isn't going to go on screen, keep in mind that people reading a book/story/novel/whatever tend to get more involved in a story when they can relate personally to the characters. Allow THEM to conjure up the exact picture in their head of what THEY think this evil-ish character should look like and it will be much more memorable to them than a character that reminds them of a cartoon.

(But yes, I DO understand that this is a short-lived character in your novel, but I think it should be a standard for all characters, even the short-lived ones. If anyone can relate to why this daughter is crazy, it would be because they totally understand why their cousin Betty is nuts because of Aunt Tessie's personality. Ya know?)

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