Handguns

seun · Aug 22, 2009

Can anyone tell me the name of a handgun which would be small enough to fit in the front pocket of a pair of trousers - if there is such a gun? Doesn't have to be particularly powerful (I assume the smaller it is, the less powerful?) and for the sake of my story, it doesn't matter if others can tell it's a gun by shape.

alleycat · Aug 22, 2009

That are many choices.

Here's one choice, just because I have one. A Beretta .25.

You wouldn't happen to need anything comedic related to the gun, or some sort of mishandling, would you? If you do, I have a fun idea.

seun · Aug 22, 2009

That's great, thanks. Nothing comedic needed. Just a small gun my character can keep in his trousers.

ETA: Maybe a stupid question, but should I refer to it as Beretta .25 or just a .25?

alleycat · Aug 22, 2009

I'm sure you'll get many more replies. There are quite a few small handguns makes and models.

Gary · Aug 22, 2009

Ruger LCP and LCR.

alleycat · Aug 22, 2009

seun said:
ETA: Maybe a stupid question, but should I refer to it as Beretta .25 or just a .25?

Either one is correct. It depends on the context as to which would be the best way to refer to it. It's kind of like a BMW car. It's a BMW . . . a BMW car . . . or just, a car.

You could even refer to it as a Beretta semi-automatic or a Beretta automatic (even though that's not technically correct) or a small-caliber Beretta, or a small-caliber semi-auto.

seun · Aug 22, 2009

OK, .25 it is. Sounds cooler.

GordonK · Aug 22, 2009

seun said:
That's great, thanks. Nothing comedic needed. Just a small gun my character can keep in his trousers.

ETA: Maybe a stupid question, but should I refer to it as Beretta .25 or just a .25?

Generally a .25 cartridge is used for compact guns. Think of .25 as a compact car, .38 a sedan, .45 a truck. Do you want to refer to the gun as a compact car (.25) or a Chevy (Beretta) or a Chevy compact (Beretta .25)?

BTW alleycat, why are you changing avatar every couple of days?

alleycat · Aug 22, 2009

GordonK said:
BTW alleycat, why are you changing avatar every couple of days?

I change my avatar almost every week, generally on Friday. Why? Just to be doing it and maybe getting a smile out of a few people if I have a funny one.

seun · Aug 22, 2009

GordonK said:
Generally a .25 cartridge is used for compact guns. Think of .25 as a compact car, .38 a sedan, .45 a truck. Do you want to refer to the gun as a compact car (.25) or a Chevy (Beretta) or a Chevy compact (Beretta .25)?

Compact is the way to go for the story. For the context, the character is keeping it secure the way you would a mobile phone. He doesn't need to hide it exactly, more keep it secure which obviously means it can't be sticking out of his pocket.

Puma · Aug 22, 2009

Seun - I wouldn't say .25 - I'd use Beretta or Bernadelli or ... Same as in writing historical I'd say derringer not .36 or whatever caliber.

Think about what you see reported in the news about guns - Saturday Night Special, Smith and Wesson - but you don't see caliber used in the paper much unless it's a .357.

If you've read any cowboy stories you've probably seen Peacemaker or Colt Army (possibly linked to caliber) or Winchester or repeating carbine or ... and possibly once in a while .45.

There's a difference in the way "people" refer to guns versus the way gun enthusiasts refer to guns. Puma

alleycat · Aug 22, 2009

For small handguns such as this, they also make a type of holster that fits inside the waistband of a person's trousers; the gun is then more or less concealed and secure. You might not need this, I just thought I'd mention it.

seun · Aug 22, 2009

Puma said:
Seun - I wouldn't say .25 - I'd use Beretta or Bernadelli or ... Same as in writing historical I'd say derringer not .36 or whatever caliber.

Think about what you see reported in the news about guns - Saturday Night Special, Smith and Wesson - but you don't see caliber used in the paper much unless it's a .357.

If you've read any cowboy stories you've probably seen Peacemaker or Colt Army (possibly linked to caliber) or Winchester or repeating carbine or ... and possibly once in a while .45.

There's a difference in the way "people" refer to guns versus the way gun enthusiasts refer to guns. Puma

Interesting. The only gun I'd recognise is the .44 Magnum. And that's only because of Dirty Harry.

So I'm probably best referring to it as a Beretta .25. The gun is only mentioned twice (and only once by make) so I should be OK with that.
Thanks all.

RJK · Aug 22, 2009

You could carry anything up to a .32 cal. My brother-in-law ran a bar in a seedy neighborhood for 30 years with a .32 in his hip pocket. He only pulled it out once, when a monster of a guy threatened to drag him over the bar. The big guy changed his mind and found another bar to get drunk.

GordonK · Aug 22, 2009

alleycat said:
I change my avatar almost every week, generally on Friday. Why? Just to be doing it and maybe getting a smile out of a few people if I have a funny one.

Just found it interesting. I especially like your last-week's avatar.

Rowan · Aug 22, 2009

Gary said:
Ruger LCP and LCR.

Ditto...it weighs next to nothing (13.5 oz).

http://www.ruger.com/LCR/

CACTUSWENDY · Aug 22, 2009

Ah, you sure this is for a story you are working on? I mean, you just said yesterday that your wedding plans were driving you nuts what with folks changing their minds about what they were coming to and with whom.....

lol

ideagirl · Aug 22, 2009

seun said:
Can anyone tell me the name of a handgun which would be small enough to fit in the front pocket of a pair of trousers - if there is such a gun? Doesn't have to be particularly powerful (I assume the smaller it is, the less powerful?) and for the sake of my story, it doesn't matter if others can tell it's a gun by shape.

In addition to the Beretta and other .25's mentioned already, there's the Kel-Tec P32, which as the name implies is a .32 caliber (bigger/more impact than a .25).
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/keltec32stryder.htm

That being said, it's hard for me to imagine anyone (with the possible exception of a COMPLETE MORON) carrying a gun in their front pants pocket, especially such a small gun. Two simple reasons:
(1) you really don't want your gun moving around (what if the pocket's fabric catches on the trigger?! What if the gun turns so it's pointed in a very undesirable direction, such as straight at your crotch?!), and
(2) you want to be able to grab your gun immediately, rather than having to dig in your pocket for it.
You can fix problem #1 by putting the gun in a tiny holster and putting the whole shebang into your pocket, but that doesn't fix problem #2.

The link above shows a couple of options for carrying it, and here's another one--this one is probably the most common way to carry small guns, and it's also the most similar to carrying it in your pocket, so perhaps it's the best for your story:
http://boldt.us/PAGOA/KELTEC_P32_BELT_CLIP.JPG
The gun is in a very small holster that has a clip that holds it to the waistband of the pants. If you really need it to be in the character's pocket, the same holster could be used there: put gun in holster, put holster in pocket and clip it around the top of the pocket. The clip would be more visible than when it's at the waistband (you can always cover a waist-level clip with a belt), but problems #1 and #2 above would be solved. However, keep in mind that the other reason most people carry on the waistband rather than in the pocket is that it's easier to sit down when the gun's at your waist. When it's in your pocket, it's much more likely to get in the way and need adjustment when you sit down.

ideagirl · Aug 22, 2009

seun said:
Interesting. The only gun I'd recognise is the .44 Magnum. And that's only because of Dirty Harry.

So I'm probably best referring to it as a Beretta .25. The gun is only mentioned twice (and only once by make) so I should be OK with that.
Thanks all.

I agree, "Beretta .25" (or Kel-Tec .32, or whatever other combination of manufacturer + caliber you choose) is best. Your gun-nut readers like knowing the details, and your gun-ignorant readers might not even immediately realize it's a gun at all if you only state the caliber--back before I knew about guns I remember once being briefly confused by such a reference in a poem a student of mine wrote. Using a well-known gun brand plus a caliber solves that potential problem.

Summonere · Aug 22, 2009

North American Arms makes a slew of dinky firearms, and their little mini-revolver has ridden in many folks' front pockets. This other offerings may be found here.

The ones listed in this pocket auto comparison chart will also do, complete with size/weight specs and visual aids to give you an idea of their relative sizes. Pistols named include:

AMT Backup - .45 ACP (semi-auto)
Beretta 3032 Tomcat - .32 ACP (semi-auto)
Kel-Tec (several of these in .32 ACP, .380, and 9mm, semi-auto)
Kahr (several of these in .380, 9mm, semi-auto)
Rohrbaugh – 9mm (semi-auto)
Ruger LCP - .380 (semi-auto)
Smith & Wesson J-frame - .357 magnum, .38 special (revolver)
Seecamp - .380 (semi-auto)

There are quite a few more beyond merely these, but among pocket-carry firearms, long-time favorites have been the S&W J-frame revolvers. Among more modern offerings, the small Kahr pistols and Kel-Techs are very popular, and the newer-still Ruger LCP has proven hugely popular.

At one time, though, the Baby Browning .25 ACP and other similar “vest pocket” pistols were quite popular, too.

Rowan · Aug 22, 2009

ideagirl said:
In addition to the Beretta and other .25's mentioned already, there's the Kel-Tec P32, which as the name implies is a .32 caliber (bigger/more impact than a .25).
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/keltec32stryder.htm

That being said, it's hard for me to imagine anyone (with the possible exception of a COMPLETE MORON) carrying a gun in their front pants pocket, especially such a small gun. Two simple reasons:
(1) you really don't want your gun moving around (what if the pocket's fabric catches on the trigger?! What if the gun turns so it's pointed in a very undesirable direction, such as straight at your crotch?!), and
(2) you want to be able to grab your gun immediately, rather than having to dig in your pocket for it.
You can fix problem #1 by putting the gun in a tiny holster and putting the whole shebang into your pocket, but that doesn't fix problem #2.

The link above shows a couple of options for carrying it, and here's another one--this one is probably the most common way to carry small guns, and it's also the most similar to carrying it in your pocket, so perhaps it's the best for your story:
http://boldt.us/PAGOA/KELTEC_P32_BELT_CLIP.JPG
The gun is in a very small holster that has a clip that holds it to the waistband of the pants. If you really need it to be in the character's pocket, the same holster could be used there: put gun in holster, put holster in pocket and clip it around the top of the pocket. The clip would be more visible than when it's at the waistband (you can always cover a waist-level clip with a belt), but problems #1 and #2 above would be solved. However, keep in mind that the other reason most people carry on the waistband rather than in the pocket is that it's easier to sit down when the gun's at your waist. When it's in your pocket, it's much more likely to get in the way and need adjustment when you sit down.

When I was on the job, I most often carried my Sig in an Uncle Mike's sidekick holster (inside the pants holster as described above). It wasn't this exact model pictured but you get the point. This worked well for me (as a female) and I still use the holster when carrying concealed today.
http://www.uncle-mikes.com/products/inside_the_pant_holsters.html

They also make an inside-the-pocket holster but as I've never actually utilized one I can't provide any opinions regarding this method of carry: http://www.uncle-mikes.com/products/inside_the_pocket_holsters.html

seun · Aug 23, 2009

You lot know FAR too much about guns.

Rowan · Aug 23, 2009

seun said:
You lot know FAR too much about guns.

Yes, it's an American addiction!

Hope you found what you are looking for though...

GordonK · Aug 23, 2009

Well, seun, I have just realized you're from the UK.

If your story is set in the UK, you may want to pay attention to how he gets a small semi-automatic handgun and why (& how) is he carrying it--that is if he's a law-abiding citizen. In the US, it will depends on states. Getting a gun legally is relatively easy. Carrying a gun legally may not.

seun · Aug 26, 2009

GordonK said:
Well, seun, I have just realized you're from the UK.

If your story is set in the UK, you may want to pay attention to how he gets a small semi-automatic handgun and why (& how) is he carrying it--that is if he's a law-abiding citizen. In the US, it will depends on states. Getting a gun legally is relatively easy. Carrying a gun legally may not.

It's not too much of a plot issue. The story's set a few years in the future when gun ownership in the UK isn't really a big deal.

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