archers

shakeysix · Aug 19, 2009

i need some input on bows and arrows. i took an archery class in college and i have checked out several books on archery but i'd like to question someone who actually does archery. and i'd like to know a little more about the history the lore and the vocabulary--s6

Broadswordbabe · Aug 19, 2009

Google Is Your Friend. Try here to start: http://www.merlinarcherycentre.co.uk/resource/resource_forums/forums_home.htm

Also try The Society for Creative Anachronism.

Or just type 'Archery forums' into Google. Because no-one uses 'fora' any more. Sigh. (Wanders off singing 'I'm just an old fashioned girl...')

shakeysix · Aug 19, 2009

oh, i've done google. and one of my co-workers makes his own bows so i've talked with him. i just want to get the feel of the sport again--without the blistered fingertips and shredded skin. --s6

pdr · Aug 19, 2009

There was...

a thread on this board some while ago. I remember filling in some points.
Have a search and you'll find a very good thread with all sorts of usable details about archery.

Broadswordbabe · Aug 20, 2009

Ah, sorry - assumed you were starting from scratch, didn't realise you had some archery experience.

mscelina · Aug 20, 2009

You know, shakey, I researched this very thing when I was writing the Asphodel novels. One little tidbit of information that resonated with me (and which I used) has to do with the standard issue English longbow. The longbow is made of two different kinds of wood: the springy sapwood is on the outside, to give the bow more accuracy while the more rigid heartwood is on the inside, to add velocity and force. The fletching which holds the feathers on is usually cat gut.

Some more good information: http://www.castles.me.uk/bow-and-arrow.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/bow-weapon

shakeysix · Aug 20, 2009

hey thanks--that's the stuff i need. i am beginning this thing in the southwest usa. we have a tree that grows here called bowdark--osage orange--that the commanche and southern cheyenne used. so i'm going to use that wood for the first bow but the main character goes from bow to bow as she goes through time and places, hunting a species of low riding, rug- rat dragons introduced by time trading aliens into the prehistoric american west. thanks to all. --s6

2Wheels · Aug 21, 2009

Just stay away from crossbows. Useless when it gets wet ...

shakeysix · Aug 21, 2009

not planning to cover cross bows. maybe in the sequel--s6

Kurtz · Aug 22, 2009

You need to have the upper body strength of a grizzly bear to be able to fire a longbow. There was a legend that no one could draw them nowadays, that was largely make believe (even with Maccy D's we still have better diets than 14th century peasants), but to be able to fire the amount of arrows unleashed at Agincourt you needed to be very resilient and strong.

shakeysix · Aug 23, 2009

we have a bow season here. most use cross bows. i have a friend in her sixties who gets a deer every year, i think she has used a long bow in the past. she is a perfect size one. another friend, in her late fifties, got a deer a couple of years ago with a long bow. then she staked the hide to the back of her garage, dried it and cut moccassins for her grandkids. she is half commanche and kind of over the top about her indian roots. i don't hunt. i prefer to have bambi come crashing through my windshield--s6

Dommo · Aug 23, 2009

Crossbows are illegal where I'm at, but a typical draw weight of a compound bow for deer hunting is somewhere in the 60+ lbs range. You can get away with less, but you're not likely going to get a clean kill, and you'll have to be even closer than you usually are(a bow shot in bow hunting is like 10-20 yards). Remember, long bow shots are very difficult (longer than 30 or 40 yards), because an arrow is a subsonic projectile and deer will hear the shot before it strikes them.

shakeysix · Aug 24, 2009

you're right. it wasn't a longbow. it was some kind of fancy recurved (?) bow that my friend used. i asked her about it. she always asks the deer's forgivness just before she lets the arrow fly. not because she learned it at her commanche grandfather's knee, but because she read it in a book. ---s6

JoshEllingson · Oct 15, 2009

English longbows were what are called self bows, meaning it was a single piece of wood. also, the standard draw weight of a yew (traditional wood for a welsh, or english bow) longbow is 100+ pounds at 28 inches. you don't draw the string back per se. you hold the bow down, knock the arrow, then lift the bow, push with one hand and pull with the other, using the shoulders, and not arms.

shakeysix · Oct 15, 2009

thank you. this will be very useful. mind if i use your words?--s6

JoshEllingson · Oct 15, 2009

me? sure. i just used the words of the woman who trained me. (i had limited upper body strength, so the modern method of drawing a bow was impractical, not to mention dangerous for my body.)

shakeysix · Oct 15, 2009

my heroine is about fifteen, skinny and short for her age, so this will advice work well for her. --s6

dirtsider · Oct 15, 2009

I know we have osage orange trees here in NJ but I'm not sure if they're native to the state or were brought north.

shakeysix · Oct 15, 2009

they're not the tallest tree. they are thorny and have a grapefruit- sized green fruit that looks something like a brain. it is a native tree here in southwestern kansas. i think i read somewhere that the fruit was a staple of the giant ground sloths that used to live here. when the giant sloths went extinct the tree was left in a sort of ecological back- cupboard. then when the first amerindians arrived they used the tree for bow wood and spread the fruit so it could seed in other places. the thing is, i can't remember where i read it but you betcha i'm gonna have me a couple of giant ground sloths in the very next chapter. right after i google 'em--s6

Ariella · Oct 15, 2009

If you're setting the story in the southern U.S., you may want to take a look at the narrative of the sixteenth-century explorer Cabeza de Vaca. There's quite a bit about native bows in there, and it's fairly easy to find by going to one of the Google book editions and doing a word search.

shakeysix · Oct 15, 2009

just finished reading de vaca's account of his shipwreck and adventures in a spanish american lit course this summer. i'm sending my heroine farther back in time--about the time the first amerindians arrived, and closer to the area i live in now, south of the arkansas river, in the sand hills of western kansas. close to coronado's quivira --s6

Mark G · Oct 15, 2009

wikipedia has a lot on archery too. My MC in my first book is an archer, but I spent more time looking up the names of the pieces of armor in a plate mail suit than I did with terminology for archery. I guess it depends on the book; but I think too much description of anything slows the progress of the story.

Obvious failings in details can seriously hurt the story. A recent book I read mentioned a Glock "revolver" and that it was the character's little "German" friend. Glock doesn't make revolvers, they make automatics. They're not in Germany, they're in Austria. All the romance in the novel and fun stuff is virtually forgotten. All I remember is that the author screwed the pooch by using the Glock name.

As far as bows go, what do you need to know? Materials? Range? Firing rate? Component parts names? Usage?

Maybe specific questions will help.

One of my favorite historical trivia bits about archery involves the Roman army's (and apparently the Byzantine's as well) response to the danger of archers: The Testudo formation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation)

shakeysix · Oct 16, 2009

you are right there, mark. all of the research i've done and i have less than a sentence describing the bow.

i talked with one of my fellow teachers just this morning. he makes his own bows and is bringing one for me to try out--bow dark and bamboo. i might buy a bow from him and take up archery. plenty of hay bales in my pasture to shoot--nothing with actual blood. sounds like a nice quiet hobby for a silver haired grammy lady. some years ago i took a metal smithing class because i had a hero who did scrap metal sculptures.

all these lessons are getting expensive. wish i could sell one of the stories--s6

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