View Full Version : Talk about trying to be spiteful (OT)

08-18-2009, 06:44 PM
Okay, This is not really about writing, so feel free to ignore it if you like.

Some of you saw the post I put up a few days ago about my problems in getting my bachelor's degree recognized here in Israel.

In short, I went to a program 10 years ago in Jerusalem which gave me 2 years of college credit and which I used toward my B.S. in Liberal Arts. In order to get the credit, I needed to request a letter from the Ministry of Education which said that the program I went to was accredited by them. I got such a letter. The letter says:

This is to certify that XXXX is accredited by the Israeli Ministry of Education for two years out of a four year study track towards a Bachelor's of Education Degree.

Therefore, upon completion of the program, students must complete two additional years of academic study in order to be accredited a first degree.

It is signed by the director of the department of teacher education.

First Degree is a European term (or maybe just an Israeli term -- but that's what they call it here) which means a Bachelor's degree. I complained and they sent me a new letter (after two months) just today.

This one tops all and is basically them saying, we're going to twist things in order to stick it to you because you had the audacity to prove us wrong:

In your letter from XXXX it says that you can receive two years of credit for your teaching certificate toward a B.Ed. (Bachelor's of Education). Therefore, according to the rules of the department, you can receive credit for the teaching certificate only if you complete a Bachelor's of Education degree.

Since your studies in XXXX were not for a B.Ed. but rather for a a Bsc. (Bachelor's of Science) we cannot recognize the exemption you received for your teaching certificate.

In other words, they are basically saying, we know we screwed up, but we want to find a way to screw you anyway because you questioned us when we screwed up.

I'm planning to contact the teacher's union and see if I can get some additional help in fighting this thing and if necessary I'll take them to court.

Anyway, back to your regular writing. . .I think I'll do some also. If nothing else than to take my mind off of a situation that is so ridiculous I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.


Mac H.
08-19-2009, 07:05 AM
You may be reading motivations into things that don't exist ... which might not be helping.

For example:

Talk about trying to be spiteful ...

This one tops all and is basically them saying, we're going to twist things in order to stick it to you because you had the audacity to prove us wrong
Is that really helpful?

A government department told you one thing. Now the same government department is telling you another.

The new letter isn't saying "I'm going to twist things in order to stick it to you because you had audacity ..."

Instead it seems to be saying something like: "The letter we gave you before misled you - the situation is a bit more complicated than those two lines indicated. In particular there is a technicality about whether the studies were taken for a B.Sc .v. B.Ed. We can't actually admit we were wrong in the first letter (because we are a bureaucracy) but we will pretend that you misunderstood it. The only option we see at the moment is that you do another two years."

It might be worth figuring out what approach you want to take in this battle.

Do you want them to:

(1) Take the approach that if the department gives incorrect information in writing they are obliged to give a degree .. even when a student hasn't met their course requirements? You will find they have a policy on this subject already. What is the policy?

(2) Alternatively, is it an issue that the course work is only allowed to count for a single degree?

(3) Is it an issue that the rules have changed in the mean time?

(4) Or is it some other issue?

If you want to win the war, you need to understand the motivations of your enemy. I don't think you understand their motivations yet.

Good luck!


08-19-2009, 10:27 AM
I think you may have misunderstood. They are ruling on whether a foreign degree is actually a valid degree. That is the only thing they have the power to do. They originally claimed that the work I did at the teachers college was not collegiate level work and therefore they will not recognize my degree. Now they are saying, yes it is collegiate level work, but you must complete a bachelor's of education degree in order for us to consider it collegiate level work. Otherwise it's not.

In essence, it's like saying that if I had a major for two years and then switched majors then everything I did is no longer considered collegiate level learning. The reality is, it is not up to the department to decide weather or not my college had a right to grant me a degree. They are supposed to decide weather or not the work I did for the degree is collegiate level. They have now admitted that is in fact collegiate level work, but they are trying to rule on the rules of the college, which they have no right to do.