A question for the guys...

Jacquelyn Hyde · Aug 7, 2009

I'm in the early stages of a short story/possible novella. Detailed plotting failed, so I just picked the scene in my head that spawned the plot bunny and ran with it. Unfortunately, this means that my characters aren't as clear in my head as I'd like them to be. One supporting character, in particular, is giving me heaps of trouble.

He's an Average Joe thrust into a rather unusual situation. For simplicity's sake, let's say he's a corporal/yet invisible ghost wandering the Earth. He isn't upset about being a "ghost". He just decided to be a "ghost" one day when given the option. At any point in time, he could go back to being a normal human.

During his time as a "ghost", he met a nice lady "ghost". They hit it off and spent a great deal of time together until, one day, she decided that she was finished being a "ghost". She went back to being a human. He's stuck in a bit of a conundrum. Average Joe "ghost" now misses nice lady "ghost" quite a bit.

He could stop being a "ghost", but he would have no memory of her... not to mention, he would return to a life decades from the time she was born, if not entire worlds away from her... Plus, he really likes being a "ghost".

He knows where former nice lady "ghost" is. She's now a human, living a comfortable life that he can visit any time he wishes. Of course, he can only watch and can't interact with her directly.

If he had a creepy, stalker personality, I would feel more comfortable writing him. :Shrug:

As it is, he's just an average, rather polite fellow in an unusual situation. Could this sort of predicament push an average guy into some "stalker'ish" behavior? Would he be upset watching her start a family? Would he continue with his life as a "ghost" and just skulk around in her shower every other Saturday?

What I'm looking for is a general consensus from the fellas. You have unlimited access to a lady you once had a thing with/are still interested in. You're invisible. She doesn't remember you ever existed. What do you do?

Oooh, I hope this made sense.

GraysonMoran · Aug 7, 2009

Trick question, right?

Brindle Chase · Aug 7, 2009

Depends... does he love her? If she's a gal pal... he might enjoy seeing her live a happy life... if she's a lover or at least of romantic interest... he might get very creepy/jealous...

if it were me, I would stay a ghost... I would watch over her and "vent" my frustration(s) for not being abkle to touch her, to talk to her by haunting her husband or lover... and anyone else who messed with her... then I'd spend the hours she was asleep trying to make something in life for me... I dunno... being a perv... I'd probably use my ghost powers to watch my fav celebs shower or something... *lol*... I dunno... I guess what I mean is, it would be torture to watch her make love to another man... haunting that guy would only sate the need to lash out... the sexual frustration might need another avenue to release... its that or go insane with jealousy and see what happens when a ghost gets that worked up??? Anywho... I'm rambling... I hope something out of this helps!

Jacquelyn Hyde · Aug 7, 2009

Brindle Chase said:
Depends... does he love her? If she's a gal pal... he might enjoy seeing her live a happy life... if she's a lover or at least of romantic interest... he might get very creepy/jealous...

That's still up in the air, depending on which direction I decide to take this in. At the moment, I'm working with the idea that they were in a moderately serious relationship. It just ended very suddenly, and he can't get any closure on the matter, what with her being a whole astral plane away and all.

Maybe I should clarify that I'm just using the word "ghost" to get across the idea that he's invisible but capable of wandering around wherever he pleases. He can't affect her at all with the stereotypical, fun ghosty stuff.

And, lol, no. This isn't a trick question. I just want to get some ideas of what the average guy would do. This isn't a romantic story by any means, so I'm looking for more of a realistic reaction than I am worrying about it being sweet and touching. "I'd get my voyeuristic kicks watching her and her new boyfriend/girlfriend?/husband go at it." is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Brindle Chase · Aug 7, 2009

I wouldnt get a kick if I was romantically interested in her... it would infuriate me... if there was absolutely no way I could affect her world... I would stew for awhile... watch... hate what I saw... then eventually move on... try to find another "ghost" to establish a relationship of any kind with.

jjacobs · Aug 7, 2009

What a horrible situation for Average Joe Ghost! If I were in his situation, I would go see her one last time and force myself to move on. If I truly loved her, I wouldn't want to dwell on what could have been. Too painful!

To be realistic, I might go see her from time to time to see how she is because I'm sure it would be hard to stay away. Otherwise, I would want to move on and let her live her life.

As for the creepy-stalker-watch-her-in-the-shower question, the temptation would probably be there, but it would be one of the last things on my mind if I loved her and wanted to be with her and I wouldn't let myself succumb to it.

GordonK · Aug 7, 2009

Jacquelyn Hyde said:
That's still up in the air, depending on which direction I decide to take this in. At the moment, I'm working with the idea that they were in a moderately serious relationship. It just ended very suddenly, and he can't get any closure on the matter, what with her being a whole astral plane away and all.

So this nice Joe ghost gets dumped, still likes lady ghost. AND ends up being a creepy stalker. You need something from point A to point B. Am I right?

If so, I'd think it's easy. He decides to move on (what else can he do?) But his heart takes him over to visit her once in a while, which he finds unexpectedly enjoyable. You can even throw in some spicy things she does (shaving legs? that's not sexual but a ghost won't do--to keep him wanting to keep spying.) It becomes a habit as time goes by. He pays her more visits, not creepy--he's enjoying the shows and he's not causing damages. Until he becomes a full time watcher... and wants more.

You want something more dramatic? A man, a woman or a platonic dog enters her life, now this is really bad. They may be doing things that get him very jealous because that's something unachievable to ghosts. A mad and jealous ghost... good luck ending it happily.

Jacquelyn Hyde · Aug 7, 2009

Thanks for the responses

GordonK said:
So this nice Joe ghost gets dumped, still likes lady ghost. AND ends up being a creepy stalker. You need something from point A to point B. Am I right?

If so, I'd think it's easy. He decides to move on (what else can he do?) But his heart takes him over to visit her once in a while, which he finds unexpectedly enjoyable. You can even throw in some spicy things she does (shaving legs? that's not sexual but a ghost won't do--to keep him wanting to keep spying.) It becomes a habit as time goes by. He pays her more visits, not creepy--he's enjoying the shows and he's not causing damages. Until he becomes a full time watcher... and wants more.

You want something more dramatic? A man, a woman or a platonic dog enters her life, now this is really bad. They may be doing things that get him very jealous because that's something unachievable to ghosts. A mad and jealous ghost... good luck ending it happily.

He's a supporting character, so I won't be going into too much detail with him. When the main character enters, she takes nice lady "ghost's" job as a "ghost" by donning an article of her clothing. Average Joe "ghost" isn't particularly upset with her or resentful, but I thought it would make him a bit nostalgic.

The majority of the tale of Average Joe "ghost" and nice lady "ghost" is told via quick snatches of gossip. I'm hoping to ultimately bring it into the climax somehow, so I need to flesh out the relationship in my own head first... Not that I wouldn't do that anyway. I like knowing my characters.

Tnonk · Aug 7, 2009

I would have him move on with an occasional visit to check her well being if they were truly in love as ghosts. Personally, I would keep the creepy stalker issue out - but that's just me.
I like the comment GordonK brought up about the dog. I would take it a step further and have the dog be able to sense the ghosts presence, much like the cat in the movie 'Ghost'.
Which direction to take with the dog sensing his presence? Dunno, but worth a thought. It could lend an additional element to the scene. When the ghosts appears the dog bristles, his hair on his back rising and growls or the dog gets happy and rolls around on the floor when the ghost speaks to him.
Either way, it could work out as a release for the ghost to connect with the real world?
Good luck with it & have fun.

Adrian

giusti · Aug 8, 2009

For me, this seems rather like a Matrix-style red pill blue pill situation. The character's just been dealt an emotional blow, and now he's given the choice of whether he wants to remember in pain, or have solace in forgetting. I think that part of the story is entirely variable from person to person whether they would remain a ghost or not, but obviously for the story, the most interesting route is to remain a ghost.

As far as the voyeuristic stalking, I don't think that it would make Average Joe look particularly creepy as long as he shows a hint of shame about it. It shouldn't take up the whole story, but perhaps at some point he has the choice of watching her in some private situation, and he would probably try to tell himself to not watch, while eventually giving in and peeking.

Other than that, I would agree with jjacobs with the idea that if he really loves her enough to stick around, his thoughts would probably not be on watching her sing in the shower.

-giusti

RainyDayNinja · Aug 8, 2009

I might take the issue up with whoever/whatever is letting me turn into a "ghost" and back, and see if I can rework the arrangement so I could be with her when I turned back.

vitt_0 · Aug 8, 2009

If I was the writer, the average Joe will want to be human but work really hard to leave signs, clues, letters on the tree / wall to the woman and to himself when he was born again, so they somehow will regain memories of ever being together. sort of using a time capsule concept...

Smiling Ted · Aug 8, 2009

I think the big problem is that there is no "average Joe." Not all of us behave the same, even when you eliminate the creeps from your sample. Give him some backstory, choose the things that motivate him the most, and your decision will be easier.

RJK · Aug 9, 2009

Joe is immortal, therefore he can wait for the human GF to live her life and die (assuming she now becomes a ghost again). If she's interested in taking up the relationship, good, if not, he's wasted enough time on her. I don't think I'd haunt or stalk her. The look but don't touch would lead to madness before too long.

hammerklavier · Aug 10, 2009

It sounds like you have the beginnings of a story. In other words, all the problems and questions you pose here are best answered in the pages of your novel.

icerose · Aug 10, 2009

Being the dark writer that I am, I would make the new boyfriend or husband whatever be able to cross the boundaries between the living and the dead and will and have something dasterdly planned for the ghost lady which slowly drives the ghost guy insane. He can't help her, he can't warn her, he can't touch her, he can't save her, all he can do is watch and try to figure out how to reach her. All the while the significant other taunts the ghost guy with his plans and such.

Annalaise duChat · Aug 13, 2009

giusti said:
For me, this seems rather like a Matrix-style red pill blue pill situation. The character's just been dealt an emotional blow, and now he's given the choice of whether he wants to remember in pain, or have solace in forgetting. I think that part of the story is entirely variable from person to person whether they would remain a ghost or not, but obviously for the story, the most interesting route is to remain a ghost.

-giusti

To take this a step further: What if Average Joe is so torn up that he chooses not to remember, and goes back to being alive in order to forget? Somehow their paths cross again and that nagging "I know you from someplace chemistry..." leads them to re-establish their relationship. Subtle hints of unspoken knowledge and Deja vu gradually lead to the memories returning...

A question for the guys...

Jacquelyn Hyde

Mistress of Puns

GraysonMoran

Brindle Chase

Dancing on the edge

Jacquelyn Hyde

Mistress of Puns

Brindle Chase

Dancing on the edge

jjacobs

GordonK

Jacquelyn Hyde

Mistress of Puns

Tnonk

giusti

RainyDayNinja

vitt_0

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

hammerklavier

It was a dark and stormy night

icerose

Lost in School Work

Annalaise duChat

She's Ba-aack