Two questions for an agent

As to your first question, don't send anything out until your manuscript is completely finished and in the best shape it can be. If an agent is intrigued by your concept and requests the full, they aren't going to be too happy being told "oh I haven't finished it yet. Give me a month (or however long).".

As to the second queestion, usually it's better not to mention vanity/self-pubs unless you've been wildly successful.

Finish.
And then start the next one.

If you write books/stories on a regular basis and know you can finish it, should you query before it's finished?

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Personal opinion here (unpublished hack, thy name is Kathleen), but I'd say no. If you do so, you may get requests for fulls and partials before the material is ready to be seen.

Kerry Morgan said:

I've been told to query query query whether I've finished my novel or not, yet all the agent sites I've gone to say the opposite. Which is true realistically? If you write books/stories on a regular basis and know you can finish it, should you query before it's finished?

Second question: If you have "vanity/joint ventured" published before, should you say that? It is with great prejudice that people speak of vanity and self publishing I'm wondering if agents feel that way too? Should you include it in future queries at all?

Thank you for your time
Kerry Morgan

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DO NOT query until your novel is finished. EVER. (non-fiction, you send a proposal, then write the book, not with fiction.)

Turn around for some agents is a matter of minutes by e-mail and if it's not ready to go, you won't have anything to send. (I was sending fulls within an hour in some cases, and shocked. I thought I'd have a couple of weeks, at least.)

Don't mention the "joint venture" book, either. It's just code for vanity published and it will NOT help you with an agent, but trying to use it as a publication credit can paint you as an amateur. Sell the agent on the idea of your novel, when it comes time to talk on the phone, then you can tell her about the first novel. Be honest, but don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Look up Janet Reid's (awesome agent with FinePrint) blog. She has a past post about exactly how much weight those kinds of books don't carry with agents.

ORION said:

Finish.
And then start the next one.

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I totally agree. Especially if the second on is in the series or uses the same characters. Once published your adoring fanclub will want another one fairly soon, and it takes time to get the book published, physically.

Also, when writing your second book you are still learning (I'm still learning and I've just finished my eighth (but I always was a slow learner)). So starting the second will help with the first, which you will return to from time to time and re-read with new eyes.

And good luck finding an agent.

Ditto, ditto, ditto to what everyone has said.

Ditto, with one addition. If the vanity publishing venture sold a LOT of books (And I'm talking several thousand books sold) you could mention it. But 99.9% of the time you don't want to mention you self published.

The thing about self-publishing is anyone can do it. The book hasn't been through a vetting process. This doesn't meant the book is bad, but since most self published books are (and I am not putting down self publishing it can be very useful for certain niches, this is simply just a fact), an agent isn't likely to think you the exception. However if your self published book has sold very well, then it kind of has gone through a vetting process, the readers have decided that it is quality. So if your work has sold in the thousands, it is worth mentioning it.

But otherwise no, self publishing is not a credit. Anyone can do it.

I've only seen one example in my career of a fiction publisher wanting to see a full "once it's finished," based on a proposal sent in by an author. The author proposed it as creative non-fiction and thought a proposal was the way to go. After reading the proposal, the publisher declared it to be fiction, then asked to see the full when it was finished.

Kerry Morgan said:

I've been told to query query query whether I've finished my novel or not

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Wow. I'm really shocked that multiple people would have given you such advice, unless they were talking about nonfiction, for which the process is different. There are people on this forum who've had partials requested within minutes and fulls within a few days after that.

If you catch the interest of an agent with a partial, you want to get that full to her while she's still itching to read the rest of the story. She is a reader, after all. Would you like to have to wait weeks or months to find out what happens next?

Also, as others have mentioned, most writers complete a manuscript, let it sit for a while (or have beta readers look at it) and then come back to it with fresh eyes and revise, before they query. This process is often repeated multiple times. If you haven't tried it yet, I highly recommend it.

I'm glad you've found AW, and hope you find this community helpful, as I have.