Querying publishers, and agent reactions: foot shooting?

type3secretion · Jul 8, 2009

Hi All,

New to this world. I met with many agent rejections (many form letters/emails) and came across some people who were published by directly querying publishers. So I thought "why not?" nothing else is working yet.

My potential second mistake was thinking as follows: "In this age of email, there really isn't any reason not to include a manuscript in the email as an attachment; it can be ignored if the query doesn't interest or if the person is scared of viruses." Sooooo, I sent the manuscripts along with my email queries (saves a step too). I did this to agents and publishers.

Later on, I come across internet pages that say that agents are very leery to represent a work, even one they like, if publishers have seen it.

So, have I unknowningly shot myself in the foot if an agent is interested to represent me? No editor has responded or asked to see the manuscript, but many have it in their INBOX.

If this is bad, can someone explain why it is bad? Seriously, I don't actually know the business very well.

Thanks.

Kathleen42 · Jul 8, 2009

If you don't know the business very well, why are you sending queries? I don't mean to sound harsh, but publishing, like any other business venture, should be researched and if you've researched the query process you'll know that attachments are bad form.

-- what follows is purely speculative advice as I've never investigated querying publishers - hopefully someone with more experience will jump in and correct or verify--

I doubt you've shot yourself in the foot because it's unlikely anyone opened the attachment. I would, however, keep a list of which publishers you've sent the manuscript to just in case you do get an agent.

There are a couple of reasons why I can see agents not liking authors sending directly to publishers. One: you're stepping on their turf (and bypassing them). Two: It might make it harder for them when shopping the manuscript around because some publishers might have already seen it.

-- end of speculative advice --

It's too late to cry over spilled milk but you can (and should) start reading up. While it doesn't deal specifically with getting an agent, The Forest for the Trees is a great read on the business from an editor (turned agent) perspective.

stormie · Jul 8, 2009

Kathleen spelled it out nicely.

Stick around AW and read as many thread about submitting your work as you can. You'll learn a lot. Believe me. I've been year since way before '05 (I think '01) and I'm still learning.

AngelaA · Jul 8, 2009

There are some publishers that welcome queries from unagented writers...many of them are in the romance genre.

And if you get a publisher's interest, sometimes it is easier to snag an agent...but it really depends on the publisher and how big they are.

I've gone both routes. Although I have not emailed the ms as an attachment unless asked for it...I think that's a little presumptuous. No offense.

Of course agents don’t want you to shop around without them…that’s how they make their living, it’s what they’re good at. They can often get you a better deal and definitely know the contract negotiation process better than anyone else. They also have contacts and can get your manuscript read quicker sometimes.

So really, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish and how far along you are in the querying process. I’ve gone back and forth…querying agents, getting disheartened, querying publishers…getting some bites…In the end, no one path is the right path. Writers find success in a variety of ways.

Keep researching, asking advice, querying...this is the best way to learn, actually doing it...you're miles ahead of many other writers!

Cyia · Jul 8, 2009

IF an editor reads your proposal and contacts you, then you need to tell any prospective agent that the project has been seen by them. Make sure you keep track of who has read it because an agent doesn't need to waste time presenting something to an editor who has already rejected it. It makes you both look bad.

Now, for the good news. Since you did another "no-no" and used an attachment, chances are good that the emails were automatically deleted - this goes for agents AND editors. Their spam filters are usually set to discard attachments from unfamiliar email addresses - this means no one's seen your stuff yet.

Most editors won't bother with unagented manuscripts. At best it gets put into slush pile for a (much) later read.

For future reference NEVER send an attachment unless its requested in advance by the person to whom you are sending the email. You wouldn't open a strange attachment from someone you don't know because that's how viruses spread, agents/editors won't either.

IF you query and the guidelines say "send X-number of pages", then you paste them into the body of the email directly after your query so the agent/editor can simply read them when they're done with your query.

Unimportant · Jul 8, 2009

t3s, most agents and publishers will list on their website their submission guidelines, and they're usually pretty specific as to what they want -- how many pages of the manuscript, in what format, and sent in a particular way. Since professional authors must be able to follow direction and meet deadlines as part of their work, agents and publishers look at your ability to follow their submission guidelines as a way of gauging whether or not you'd be able to follow direction and meet deadlines for contracted books. It's better to make a good first impression by sending them what they ask for.

type3secretion · Jul 9, 2009

Thanks everyone for the info. When I say "I don't know the business", it's all a matter of relative ignorance, and I did try to educate myself. I'm not a writer "by trade", and am very much an outsider to the culture. My initial efforts were very by the book: query letters only to agents in the formats they required. Striking out there, either I give up on my book, or I move beyond the constraints (as I have read several published authors have done). So I began to send attachments - contrary to what some have said here, many are NOT automatically deleted - I got several responses. I even emailed those who stated "no unsolicited manuscripts", often getting replies (negative of course). My hope was that for those not scared of viruses (good filters, not on a PC, etc), if the manuscript is sitting there, they might take a look. The sending to editors was the last protocol breaking I tried, following the route to publication of some authors I had read about (not romances, btw).

Thanks for helping further educate me. I appreciate the comments very much.

ChaosTitan · Jul 9, 2009

And while you're sending your attachments and hoping to become one of the exceptions who made it by bucking the rules, you're working on your next book, yes? Because the fastest way to disappointment is to pin all of your publishing hopes on your first novel.

Write another.

Cyia · Jul 9, 2009

type3secretion said:
Striking out there, either I give up on my book, or I move beyond the constraints (as I have read several published authors have done).

Just out of curiosity, how many agents did you try before you tossed the guidelines? You may not like hearing this, but if you're only getting "no" and no requests for partial or full reads, it's most likely not your methods getting you rejected - it's the material.

That doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad book, you could just have an inadequate query. Why don't you try it out in Share Your Work here to see if that's your problem.

What you have to realize about those published authors who stepped out of bounds is that the success rate of such endeavors is so infrequent that it's noteworthy. The frequency of authors who think their work is an exception is so frequent that it's not noteworthy.

Yes, some editors - even at big houses - will read proposals despite their "no submissions" policy. Before I knew what I was doing, I got requests that way, but the MS in question would have been much stronger had it gone through the extra step of having an agent look over it first.

type3secretion · Jul 9, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
And while you're sending your attachments and hoping to become one of the exceptions who made it by bucking the rules, you're working on your next book, yes? Because the fastest way to disappointment is to pin all of your publishing hopes on your first novel.

Write another.

Yes, penned another and 1/3 way through third. Second one is not as good I don't think, third too early to tell, premise not as good (but good), execution we'll see. First book really has a knock-out premise. Execution is middling, but can be improved, and I return to it time to time.

Because I believe in the book, it's hard to give it up. Obviously, there is a limit to patience and efforts.

type3secretion · Jul 9, 2009

Cyia said:
Just out of curiosity, how many agents did you try before you tossed the guidelines? You may not like hearing this, but if you're only getting "no" and no requests for partial or full reads, it's most likely not your methods getting you rejected - it's the material.

The query went through a few rounds of revision. I was able to get maybe 10 requests for partials, two for fulls. That's after maybe 200+ queries. The novel is commercially aimed, thriller genre (one I love as a reader).

The fulls were requested by agents that move these types of material, and that was encouraging. One came back with "not for me", the other "you write great action, but the investigative side was too slow moving." I had several (more than five) respond to queries in an unusual way: that the material was too emotionally disturbing for them to consider it, personally, and some felt, for the market. Of course that emotional tension was what gave birth to the novel, and the core of the premise. And I believe (perhaps wrongly) that they are selling the market short.

Cyia said:
What you have to realize about those published authors who stepped out of bounds is that the success rate of such endeavors is so infrequent that it's noteworthy. The frequency of authors who think their work is an exception is so frequent that it's not noteworthy.

Yes, I think you are likely right, and it is easy to get sucked into that when you really want to make things happen for your book!

Cyia said:
Just out of curiosity, how many agents did you try before you tossed the guidelines? You may not like hearing this, but if you're only getting "no" and no requests for partial or full reads, it's most likely not your methods getting you rejected - it's the material.

The query went through a few rounds of revision. I was able to get maybe 10 requests for partials, two for fulls. That's after maybe 200+ queries. The novel is commercially aimed, thriller genre (one I love as a reader).

The fulls were requested by agents that move these types of material, and that was encouraging. One came back with "not for me", the other "you write great action, but the investigative side was too slow moving." I had several (more than five) respond to queries in an unusual way: that the material was too emotionally disturbing for them to consider it, personally, and some felt, for the market. Of course that emotional tension was what gave birth to the novel, and the core of the premise. And I believe (perhaps wrongly) that they are selling the market short.

Cyia said:
Yes, some editors - even at big houses - will read proposals despite their "no submissions" policy. Before I knew what I was doing, I got requests that way, but the MS in question would have been much stronger had it gone through the extra step of having an agent look over it first.

That's a really good point. How involved are agents in rewriting of manuscripts? I'm sure it varies, but is it common to find agents who take on projects with the idea to help take the manuscript to the next level? I had assumed agents were so busy, and got so many decent manuscripts that they still had to reject, that it would be unlikely many would get involved in this way.

YAwriter72 · Jul 9, 2009

My agent and I went through 4 rounds of edits before we decided the book was ready to sub. A lot don't. It really depends on the kind of agent they are. I have friends who's agents basically glance over new stuff and then send it right out. THAT would terrify me and was why I aimed towards edit heavy agents.

Cyia · Jul 9, 2009

type3secretion said:
That's a really good point. How involved are agents in rewriting of manuscripts? I'm sure it varies, but is it common to find agents who take on projects with the idea to help take the manuscript to the next level? I had assumed agents were so busy, and got so many decent manuscripts that they still had to reject, that it would be unlikely many would get involved in this way.

It depends on the agent. Some will offer representation and then start editing. Others suggest changes they think will make the MS more marketable and invite the author to resubmit if they make those changes.

djf881 · Jul 22, 2009

My understanding is that you only get one crack at an imprint, and if they've seen it before, they won't look again.

A solicited manuscript will go to the editor who requested it. An unsolicited manuscript will go to the slushpile to get rejected by their intern or editorial assistant.

A legitimate agent, if he/she does the job properly, will get in touch with the right editor for the project, which will get your book the best possible consideration.

If you've already submitted it, though, then the agent can't go back to the publishers who have already passed on the book. That negatively impacts its likelihood of selling.

Querying publishers, and agent reactions: foot shooting?

type3secretion

Kathleen42

crushing on fictional characters

stormie

storm central

AngelaA

Are we there yet?

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

type3secretion

ChaosTitan

Around

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

type3secretion

type3secretion

YAwriter72

someone let me off this crazy ride

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

djf881

AW Addict