Writing vs Career

Writing.

CalGrave said:

it would be nice to get know the people will later crush my dreams and get a good look at my own draft, covered in blood, sweat, tears and a vague aroma of alcohol as it's being shoved into the rejected bin.

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Vague aroma?


You're 20...stop worrying. Attack.

When I was 20, John Belushi died and the Delorean went bankrupt. Imagine facing the world after that?

CalGrave, I think I was in a similar place to you when I was 20.

Sadly, that's now nearly 20 years ago.

I spent a long time drifting around trying to find a job where I could be creative and still earn a living, and just became a serial job-hopper. I do have an English degree, but it hasn't been terribly useful career-wise.


I did try working for a publishing company for a while, but it was just demoralising, and a very tough environment. I also tried advertising copywriting, but it's a different kind of writing, I wasn't that good at it, and the work environment - and ethic - I found difficut to deal with. I have ended up working as a Personal Assistant. My ability to type quickly and string a coherent sentence together is appreciated by my boss, but the job is not in the least bit creative.

Ultimately I realised that what I actually wanted to do was write novels, and there would never be any other kind of job where I would get creative satisfaction. So I resolved myself to the fact that the day job and the writing must co-exist in my life as separate entities, and since that realisation I have found some peace in life.

I work the 9-to-5 to earn a living, and write in my spare time. The job is not terribly demanding, but when I leave work at the end of the day I can leave it behind, and my evenings and weekends are my own. That's when I try to find time to write. Maybe one day I'll sell a book that will earn me enough to be able to write full time but realistically that day is probably a long way off.

It's difficult, finding time to fit writing and day job in (along with all other essentials in life), but for me, that's the way it has to be.

Shara

CalGrave said:

I'm currently in Jr. College, and I was busy selecting my classes for the upcoming semester. It occurred to me that I'm running out of transfer classes, which means I'm reaching the point where I can choose any class that I want, and I should be ready to leave by the end of the year. I decide to check up on what I could possibly choose as a major. English is a given, there's also Communication. But as I continued to look through the list, most of them just seemed to call out instant $. Medical, Dentistry, Business, Electronics, or anything involving a trade.

That's when I realized that as a 20 year old still living at home doing nothing, I started to wonder about the future. Writing is the only field that has interested me but I could think of nothing that I could do that would allow me to support myself with a decent salary and still be creative.

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Surely there are subjects about which you're interested. One of the best ways to feed your writing is to explore and experience. History, communications, international studies, journalism, ice cream man, kung fu master... You might want to ask around and find out how many people are actually working in the field they studied in college. The two aren't necessarily related. They have to be for a lawyer or a doctor, of course, but there are a lot of jobs that aren't irrevocably linked to a particular university degree.

Writing is all that I've ever wanted to do, but obviously as a college student or even as graduate the chances of getting a steady income, a career, seems unlikely. An English degree seems safe, but I've never had any interest in teaching, which seems to be on the top of the list of everyone who has one.

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I am reminded of the Avenue Q song, "What Do You Do with a BA in English?" You don't have to teach. You can get an English degree that focuses on technical or creative writing. Look for internships at newspapers, magazines, publishing companies. That type of experience can get you an in for future employment at those or similar companies.

So what should I do? Work for a publishing company, it would be nice to get know the people will later crush my dreams and get a good look at my own draft, covered in blood, sweat, tears and a vague aroma of alcohol as it's being shoved into the rejected bin.

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If you're going to consider publishing, don't limit yourself to fiction publishers. Nonfiction/reference publishers could give you a good background in the workings of how books are made. Also realize that an increasing change in publishing, across the board, is the move toward electronic material. Novels available for electronic download, online resources compiling vast reams of information into one, unbound product. The Internet is increasingly used by authors to market their books. So what about marketing, information architecture, library science?

There's nothing stopping you from writing. Studying something other than, or in addition to, writing will only enhance your pool of reference, provide you with more ideas, and give you more tools with which to work. And all of that can only contribute to bettering your chances of writerly success.

CalGrave said:

An English degree seems safe, but I've never had any interest in teaching, which seems to be on the top of the list of everyone who has one. I read the horror stories about how even Stephen King had to live in virtual poverty before becoming a fulltime writer.

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Forgive the bluntness, but if you want safe become a dentist. There is always a need for dentists.

If you want a career in the arts, be prepared to sacrifice--money, time, possibly security and on occasion, a steady diet. Not saying everyone will go through the extremes that SK did in his early career, but careers in the arts (be it writing, acting, painting, dancing, etc....) are very difficult to establish. The "unemployment rate" is high.

Even if you don't use college to settle into a trade or career, make sure you get a degree and find a job you can live with for a while. Because even if you manage to sell a novel or two in a few years, the money for a new author is generally very, very low. It's certainly not enough to live off of, for most people.

I got the Communication degree, and went into retail right after college. It gave me the flexibility of schedule to write often, but the money sucked. I lived paycheck to paycheck for six year, before I finally sold two novels. The money supplemented my income, but I'm still working that same retail job.

Very, very, very few people find that Instant Success! Instant Fame! Instant Wealth! lottery ticket that always finds its way into the news. Don't count on that. It probably won't happen.

Good luck.

You could always look into technical writing. I have no idea what degree you need for that, but it's what I do (I got my position after 10 years of industry experience, but I wouldn't recommend that route). It's dull as hell, but it's fairly...easy? As far as jobs go.

I have a BS with a double major in Accounting and Computer Information Systems. I thought it would be a good background for any position or for owning my own business.

I'm working in the accounting field and it's not me. I feel very out of place.

Really, I wish I'd going for a communications-type route offered at my university and done the PR/advertising major and marketing minor. Dunno what I'd done with that either though.

Part of me wishes I'd done a science major, too. I like that kind of work as well.

Of course, if I won the lottery, I'd be a professional student just because I love school, and I think that's 90% of my problem. I like everything a little too much.

Do some soul searching and go on some informational interviews. You might be able to find something that clicks as a day job for you.

If you look at it as "writing or nothing" you'll be broke. You need be willing to work other jobs while you write. Let me put it this way--you can get 50 short stories and a novel published, and you may still need to work another job. Try to enjoy writing as a serious hobby, throwing your best efforts into it, and then see where it leads you. Have fun at it, and savor the thought that you're indeed a writer with ongoing projects to return to each night--projects that could lead anywhere. If there comes a time when you can give up the day job, you'll know it.

My advice on this topic remains the same: With a BA or MA in English it's easy to find pleasant clerical work in a lower level administrative position at a state university. The job isn't hard or stressful, so I even manage to sneak some writing on the clock. It's decent money with good benefits, and I don't have to take my job home with me. Plus, I get staff tuition discounts so that I can take the occasional class.

tjwriter said:

Really, I wish I'd going for a communications-type route offered at my university and done the PR/advertising major and marketing minor. Dunno what I'd done with that either though.

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Meh. I go a degree in graphic design and I work in design and marketing. After ten years, am completely sick of it.

The one thing you should remind yourself is that very few of us every make enough money from writing to completely support ourselves with just that income. Just as well, very few of us ever sell a first novel (or second, or third, or anything), and if you do, it's not going to be enough to support yourself with. The literary world is not a forgiving one to live in; it takes passion, patience, strong will, and the intestinal fortitude of an ox.

My advice to you is to do what you have to in school to get by, and focus on your writing on the side. I tell you this because I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you to go my way and half-ass school while focusing all of your energies on writing (one can still get good grades, but that's neither here nor there). Now, if you choose this path, then by all means do what you need to do; I'm simply covering my...ethical and moral bases, so to speak.

Truth is, you have to have something to support yourself with as you write, and if you find success in doing so, then you can begin to consider doing it full-time. Until then, you have to remember that many writers actually have day jobs, even successful ones.

The best profession, at least in my opinion, for a writer is teaching at a JC, or perhaps a higher end college (I'd prefer JC). You can teach English, or philosophy, or biology, or whatever it is that interests you the most. The upside to doing so is that you'll have--maybe--three or four classes a day, three days a week, office hours once a week or so, and the rest of the time, you have to yourself. Of course, grading papers and tests are part of the process, but you'll have much more free time in which to write than you would at another job that demands more of your time. Also...you'll have the summer off! Plenty of time, while you would be teaching something you feel passionately about, as well as focusing your energy on something else you do with your time, not to mention you'd be giving back to the "writing community." The major problem is everyone who has an English degree, if that is what you're going for, is either teaching or looking for a job teaching, and pickings are slim, especially now with our awesome country's awesome economic issues (damn you all!!! revert to barter system!!!).

It goes without saying, you have to go to school to be a teacher, but that's entirely up to you, and how much you're willing to sacrifice and fight for what you want in life. And a great deal of luck.

Success notwithstanding...if you truly want to write, if that drive is in your chest and your gut, you will write.

Dreams are (usually) not realized overnight. That realization requires time and hard work. Likewise, dreams are not (usually) squashed overnight. That requires time and lots of negatives to pile up.

As for college, many of the more important things learned in a college education have little to do with a specific career, regardless of major. Some of those important ones are learned about yourself and about other people. My advice is to pick a major based on what interests you the most, even it it has nothing to do with writing. It's possible to make time for writing. And even if one chooses to major in Chemistry, that person can still take classes in creative writing, even minor in it. Choice of a career path can be similar (if it is something other than writing). Find something you like to do. Better yet, find something you love to do. It's possible to be adulterous in terms of one's occupation--love the job that pays the bills and also love writing.

Pretty much echoing hat everyone else is saying here.

You need to find a career. You're an adult now and you can't make it an either or. You will have to support yourself. You need to find something you won't hate, but it won't necessarily be something you love either.

Look at your options practically, research the job market, find which ones have low stress jobs that have at least a minimal interest to you. Then go for it while writing on the side.

You do not want to live in abject poverty coasting on merely dreams. Most of those dreams will most likely not come true and if they do come true, they'll be years in the making.

The vast majority of the "overnight" successes were years in the making. Stephan King was an overnight success comparably on his Carry book. But it took him years of writing and rejections to get there.

I remember the outrage that arose over a script writer that got a million dollar contract as his first contract, he was hailed as an overnight success and people were angry. However if anyone bothered to look past the surface, he had spent 7 years honing his craft as well as attending film school and such. It wasn't instantaneous and he was at it longer than the vast majority of the people complaining over it.

icerose said:

Stephan King was an overnight success comparably on his Carry book. But it took him years of writing and rejections to get there.

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Good example. If memory recalls, he wrote Carrie in the bathtub. On Writing was a nice look at what happened before he became successful.

I think it is old fashioned to consider you have one lifelong career. I was a career scientist when I started also being a career writer, I maintained being a writer and became a career policy analyist/advocate. Call me in a few years and I might be something else entirely. Whatever you do, however many things you do, make it something you want to do and enjoy doing. If you can do what you enjoy all the time, just decide to enjoy what you have to do to make a living along the way--and pick from the available options the one you will enjoy the most.

Kathleen42 said:

Good example. If memory recalls, he wrote Carrie in the bathtub. On Writing was a nice look at what happened before he became successful.

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Haha, I thought I was spelling the title wrong but I couldn't figure out what I was messing up. Curse the vowels!

icerose said:

The vast majority of the "overnight" successes were years in the making. Stephan King was an overnight success comparably on his Carry book. But it took him years of writing and rejections to get there.

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This is not said often enough.

Hi CalGrave, another twenty year old here, so no older than you and probably little wiser, but here’s my thoughts.

My day job passion is illustration, I love writing and would love to be commercially published at it, but it's not something I can sit down and churn out.

What were you interested in as a child? Explore old job ideas you had.
I’ve wanted to be a palaeontologist, an archaeologist, a rock star, an illustrator, a business owner, a fashion designer, work in the publishing industry and about a gazillion other things and those were just my ideas before I started my first BA (Design, Illustration Major) which I’ll finish in about six months if all goes to plan, and I want to get a second one in literature when I have the chance (I’ll probably go back part-time after taking a year to build up my savings).

If writing is the one true thing you want to do, do it. If it's a huge passion of yours but you think you need to study something else because you don't think you want writing as your day job (and the other career choice requires a degree) study that instead.

Methinks you should find yourself a multi-millionaire to marry, then you could write all of the time and not worry about money.

CalGrave said:

That's when I realized that as a 20 year old still living at home doing nothing, I started to wonder about the future. Writing is the only field that has interested me but I could think of nothing that I could do that would allow me to support myself with a decent salary and still be creative. Writing is all that I've ever wanted to do, but obviously as a college student or even as graduate the chances of getting a steady income, a career, seems unlikely.

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Get a degree that interests you.

And just in case traveling interests you:

I have some friends escaping the current economical climate in South Korea. They work in school as English teachers. They don't have certification in the States, but the Koreans are looking to become a new Singapore for business in the region and want native English-speakers. The commitment is 9 months to a year. They save just over $1K per month. Amenities are pretty Western. It's not Peace Corps. (Incidentally, if "escape" becomes your desire for a while, PC is no escape to write. Some writers do emerge, but it's NOT so easy to write there. This Korean teaching gig is not PC.)

I asked one friend how hard it is in Korea, and if the work comes home with them, etc. If you work with a public school, you'll have to clock in at work for 8 hours, but 3-4 of them are really your own time. Teachers are organized there, so you don't have to struggle with lesson planning, etc. Time off is time off.

*shrug*

Just sharing an immediate option. The negatives are that you won't be surrounded by English (other than the internet), you'll be far from your community back home and in an alien culture--something that may be awesome but also alienating from time to time. The positives are you'll have time, and since you'll know fewer people, you'll have more time to write.

I'm usually pretty footloose when it comes to traveling, so maybe this sounds dayum crazy to you, but you're young, so why not, if it appeals It's a temporary answer of what you could do AFTER GETTING A DEGREE, but it would stand you in good stead if you do decide to teach, or if you apply for any international development type jobs. Also you can open the door to office work at international offices that way too.

Anything with lots of responsibility and travel in international work will always mean lots of work, too.

I'm struggling with the same question of how to deal my time between money-generation (a job) and writing. *shrug* Not easy. But I definitely recommend getting a degree you can use. You don't need an English degree to get admin jobs. You may need to temp a bit to get computer experience, etc. But that's okay.

I'm 27, just finished year 2 of my Scottish Literature BA and what am I doing to pay the bills this summer . . .

A restaurant supervisor.

To be blunt, if you've waited until now to try and get a summer job, in this climate - that was a daft thing to do. I've had this job lined up since February (last October really). Don't expect instant cash from writing either, by the time you got paid you'll be back at college.

You can temp, though. While you look for something steady.

Not really sure...I mean I graduated college in 2007 and have yet to find anything remotely related to my English degree. I mean, I'm a part-time secretary for a real estate company; it's something I could've done out of high school.

I figure it could be a lot worse so it works for now.

I understand where you are coming from, especially in this current climate. And as other said, you are still young (as am I) and we have many more years ahead of us to find our "dream" jobs. It just takes doing some of the mediocre work for awhile before we can find that. Too many people I went to college with thought they'd be making six figures right out of school and that a degree would be an easy ticket to that. We have to work our way up to it and there's a lot of competition out there.

So try not to be dicouraged if you don't find something that is your "dream job" for a few years.

I have an undergraduate degree in English Lit and a Journalism diploma. I've worked in retail and for government. But my career is as a Technical Documentation Specialist. Yes, dull as hell, but I make good money and my creativity is actually sparked for having such a boring job. If my husband made more money, if I didn't have kids, or if I could sell a manuscript for a healthy advance, I'd dump the "career" in an instant.

I think it's important to set goals for your career and for your writing and then pursue those goals. Be prepared to adjust your goals as circumstances warrant. Good luck.