Tell me, am I getting screwed?

amv28 · Jun 30, 2009

I am new to this forum and I have to start my 1st post off with a question. Please forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but I searched and not too much popped up.

Background:

I am not a writer by trade, however I write a monthly column for a local women's magazine focusing on the topic of what I do for a living in real life. I absolutely love my column and have a great time producing it every month. Here is what is not so great about it:

Not only do I write the column (appx 700 words) I also am the artistic director/ stylist for the photos. In other words: I come up with a topic, write about it and pull together a visual accompaniment to go along with the article. I am on hand for the photo shoot tweaking details etc. Sometimes I even shell out $$ for the stylization and never have asked to be re-imbursed.

Okay. Sooooooo....when I 1st started writing this column, money was never discussed (me being naîve to this and not being a writer by trade, I just assumed that they would throw me a bone) After a few months of busting my butt and not receiving compensation, I inquired about pay. I was told that they would offer me $50 per article. Laughable, I thought! So, I, in hopes of being strategic, I offered a trade i.e. I write the article/stylize and they compensate me in advertising. Nope. They didn't like that idea. Okaaayyy.....so I had to take what I could get.

After a few months of spotty payment and "checks in the mail" bs, I explained to them that I would not be turning in my article due to the several unpaid invoices. They informed me that they "most magazines don't even pay their writers a dime and that I should be (basically) be thankful for them giving me a voice" I say: Ummm, I produce a damn fine piece of work each month, and you should be thankful that you have great content to be housed in between those glossy pages! (not in an arrogant way, more in a the road goes both ways type of way)

Which leads me to this question: I typically will work two days on producing this feature. Between writing and stylizing the photo I usually appropriate two days for it (and I own my own business, mind you) I realize that $50 is pretty much ludicrous, but I am wondering if most magazines operate this way!?!? As in: rely on the niceness of people to be "contributing writers" and manipulate them into thinking that they are doing them favors by giving them a voice in lieu of compensation of some sort.

Any responses are appreciated!

Thank you,

Amv28

CatMuse33 · Jun 30, 2009

Simply put: No, most magazines do not operate this way and yes, they are taking advantage of your inexperience as a writer. I don't blame you, however... like you said, you had no idea. Even beginning writers who *are* writers by trade often fall for this type of thing.

Some magazines DO rely on free writers. Accruing clips or, for local business owners, establishing yourself as an expert and getting your name out there sometimes is a good trade-off. But this magazine sounds like they are unreasonable to work with.

I'd take all the clips you accrued and pitch a similar column to another magazine, one that pays well and on time. They are out there. Search Writer's Market or just google your topic and I'm sure you'll find at least one (probably more, but not knowing the topic, I can't say.)

Ah, just re-read you said it's for a local women's magazine -- why not try syndicating the column to a bunch of local women's magazines? If each one only pays you $50 for the same column... that can add up. Sadly, $50 actually IS in the ballpark of what a local magazine might pay, although it definitely varies. But that doesn't excuse them not paying on time. (Or reimbursing expenses.)

To play devil's advocate, v. my knee jerk reaction -- have you gotten business through the column? If so, it may be worth it anyway. If not... search elsewhere. Most business owners who write as you do, do it in lieu of paid advertising since theoretically, editorial is more convincing to readers than ads.

I admit to being guilty of this at one point... As an editor, I took free editorial from a business owner, who was writing to his target market.

The difference? He was happy with the arrangement, enjoyed seeing his name in print, used the clips to further establish himself as an expert in the field and I think he even got some business from it.

The other option is to just do the job more quickly, if at all possible. $50 for two days of work sucks. $50 for two hours isn't bad. $50 for one hour is pretty good. It sounds like if you could JUST write, and either be paid separately for the photos or not provide them at all, you'd be doing okay.

KTC · Jun 30, 2009

No. Most do not operate this way. A lot of people will write for ludicrous sums...and chalk it up to credits for their portfolio, but $50...IMHO sucks ass. There are probably some local mags that try to get work for free. No doubt writers who will do it too...but I would steer clear of them. I feel like I'm getting ripped off when I settle for $150 for an article. I have to really like the subject to do so. You are doing slave work. If it's worth the outcome...having your column, and whatever comes out of it for you...then continue to do so...but don't let them bully you. If you agreed on $50...tell them to pay you or suck air.

Good luck.

and welcome to AW.

CatMuse33 · Jun 30, 2009

KTC, $100 used to be my "cut-off" fee. But since I've started thinking in terms of hourly rates, I'm a lot more flexible. Probably ripping myself off in that way, but it has expanded the gigs available to me. $30/per hour is my cutoff now.

Kris · Jun 30, 2009

There are legitimate mags that pay very little, but for the people you're working for to present it as though all writers are gratefully scrabbling for crumbs is dishonest.

I look for projects that pay $1 per word, and find out about pay in writing beforehand. Big magazines send a contract with all of that spelled out. I did write for a small arts magazine for a while that asked me to take care of securing images, and I've heard of this with other magazines, but someone else usually does the layout.

OTOH, it is true that there will always be less-experienced writers who are willing to write for free or for little pay in exchange for published clips, so it's kind of a catch-22.

Bottom line, it sounds like this gig isn't working out for you...I'd take the clips you have published so far and bid them farewell.

Kris · Jun 30, 2009

Just to clarify: It's not the $50 that would stop me working with them-- it's the making excuses and not paying you. $50 isn't the worst fee I've ever heard of.

But for them to act like they're doing you a favor by pretending they're gonna pay you? Dishonest.

amv28 · Jun 30, 2009

Thanks everyone!!

I *thought* I was getting the short end, but when the publisher stepped in and told me that I apparently had false expectations about how this whole industry works I thought that maybe I was the crazy one. Then I started thinking: What about Architectural Digest? Do they rely on the *niceness* of others that are desperate to get their names out to write features? I highly doubt it. My column is the interior design column, hence the AD reference

I have been writing it for a year and I haven't gotten much except recognition amongst peers/acquaintances....that I know of. The column is very well received and people tell me that they look forward to reading it, fwiw. I know that I definitely bring my A-game and am very proud every time a new copy is out

However, it has not directly brought me any business.

What really got me thinking was the business model. I thought to myself: Damn! Now THAT'S a business model! Have people donate clothing/accessories for the fashion shoots, do the hair/make-up for free and *contributing writers* write articles and stylize their own photos for free? Then they chg a ton for advertising? Yes! I may have to start my own dang magazine! Then, my rational side said: No. this can't be how this works.

I am going to push a hard-angle on the advertising trade slant. They told me that they didn't want to do that b/c they didn't want to make it appear that they had advertorial content.....whatever that means. But I am going to velvet-hammer them down about it and will not take no for an answer.

Again, I appreciate the kindness of strangers giving me free advice

~Amv28

OH! ETA: They told me that in the print world, the payment is paid 60 days AFTER the print copy is out. Is that true??? I called bull**** on that, but am still curious.

Millicent M'Lady · Jun 30, 2009

amv28 said:
Thanks everyone!!

I *thought* I was getting the short end, but when the publisher stepped in and told me that I apparently had false expectations about how this whole industry works I thought that maybe I was the crazy one. Then I started thinking: What about Architectural Digest? Do they rely on the *niceness* of others that are desperate to get their names out to write features? I highly doubt it. My column is the interior design column, hence the AD reference

I have been writing it for a year and I haven't gotten much except recognition amongst peers/acquaintances....that I know of. The column is very well received and people tell me that they look forward to reading it, fwiw. I know that I definitely bring my A-game and am very proud every time a new copy is out However, it has not directly brought me any business.

What really got me thinking was the business model. I thought to myself: Damn! Now THAT'S a business model! Have people donate clothing/accessories for the fashion shoots, do the hair/make-up for free and *contributing writers* write articles and stylize their own photos for free? Then they chg a ton for advertising? Yes! I may have to start my own dang magazine! Then, my rational side said: No. this can't be how this works.

I am going to push a hard-angle on the advertising trade slant. They told me that they didn't want to do that b/c they didn't want to make it appear that they had advertorial content.....whatever that means. But I am going to velvet-hammer them down about it and will not take no for an answer.

Again, I appreciate the kindness of strangers giving me free advice

~Amv28

OH! ETA: They told me that in the print world, the payment is paid 60 days AFTER the print copy is out. Is that true??? I called bull**** on that, but am still curious.

Amv28,
I honestly can't think of a reason to stay with these people. Sixty days is not usual for payment and they are really taking advantage of you.

If they are not bringing you any new business and you are actually out of pocket for some of the shoots, I'd seriously advise you to start querying elsewhere, with other magazines who will appreciate your hard work and decency and who will not string you along.

This publication is really boiling my blood. Sorry for being ranty and welcome! :welcome:

but seriously, you can do better for yourself than with these jokers.

amv28 · Jun 30, 2009

Wellllllllll.......as enticing as is it to just tell them to suck it and so many times I have surely wanted to do so, the thing that keeps me hanging on is that it's truly a fine publication. It looks wonderful, the content is great and I truly am proud to be a part of it. That's the quandary that I am in. I don't do much marketing for my business b/c I can't afford to advertise, so this really IS the only way for me to communicate with potential clients (on a local level) at this point. Many times I've said screw it. I'm starting a blog...and I could say F**k on a blog if I wanted to! I could create my own deadlines etc. But I haven't. Even more despicable is that the mag was started by two former journalists

OH!!!!!! One MORE thing: I asked if I could have a hardcopy photo of a previous column's picture. I was not sure about copyright etc. The editor informed me that I could contact the photographer to have a copy, but I was not allowed to use ANY of my previous photos from the column for business promotion b/c they own the rights. So, if I wanted to use that particular photo in an advertisement, then I couldn't b/c they own them. BUT *I* came up with the concept and stylized it all!!!!! BURNS ME UP!!!

CatMuse33 · Jun 30, 2009

Now, from your most recent post, it REALLY sounds like they are giving you a bum deal.

For $50 per story, providing you are doing it for the exposure (and if you haven't gotten any paying leads from it, what's the point) a fair arrangement is:

- Pay within an agreed-upon time frame. Some magazines DO pay 60 days after publication, but not all.
- YOU retain the rights to everything you submit, including photos, layouts, etc. for promotional purposes OR re-print
- To be paid separately an additional amount for photos AND layout. I've never ever heard of contributors doing their own layout, FWIW
- Promotion within your column in the form of a bio at the end that includes your business name, phone number and Web address.

If you want to stay, ask for that, at a bare minimum. I would say don't give up right away -- sell stories to other just as nice looking magazines that treat their writers fairly -- and then tell them to shove it.

Obviously at some point the arrangement was working for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. (As was the case with my writer who was kind enough to work in exchange for the publicity the magazine offered him). But it definitely sounds like it's not working for you anymore, and there are plenty of other magazines that look nice AND pay well and on time and treat their writers with respect.

telindor · Jun 30, 2009

While $50 seems low, but not too terribly out of line for a small, local publication, I have to agree that a) not paying you within a reasonable time frame, and b) claiming to retain all rights for that small sum, both sound suspiciously like they're screwing you. I write for a local pub and their standard agreement is that they pay within 30 days of publication, and they keep only 60 day local rights, after which I can do whatever I want with the stuff.

amv28 · Jun 30, 2009

CatMuse33 said:
Now, from your most recent post, it REALLY sounds like they are giving you a bum deal.

For $50 per story, providing you are doing it for the exposure (and if you haven't gotten any paying leads from it, what's the point) a fair arrangement is:

- Pay within an agreed-upon time frame. Some magazines DO pay 60 days after publication, but not all.
- YOU retain the rights to everything you submit, including photos, layouts, etc. for promotional purposes OR re-print
- To be paid separately an additional amount for photos AND layout. I've never ever heard of contributors doing their own layout, FWIW
- Promotion within your column in the form of a bio at the end that includes your business name, phone number and Web address.

If you want to stay, ask for that, at a bare minimum. I would say don't give up right away -- sell stories to other just as nice looking magazines that treat their writers fairly -- and then tell them to shove it.

Obviously at some point the arrangement was working for you, and there's nothing wrong with that. (As was the case with my writer who was kind enough to work in exchange for the publicity the magazine offered him). But it definitely sounds like it's not working for you anymore, and there are plenty of other magazines that look nice AND pay well and on time and treat their writers with respect.

This is great advice! And everyone has offered so many wonderful pieces of wisdom. Thank you

One clarification: I don't do the print layout. When I say stylize I mean: I come up with a concept, stylize and write about it. Let's say it's a table-setting/tablescape whatever. *I* gather all of the elements for the table, arrange them get everything photo ready, and then make sure it looks marvelous for print. So, my column is two parts. One part text, and one part visual. The actual print layout is up to them. I just supply a story and a great looking photo to accompany it. Think about it like a décor magazine. There's a photo and a story. That's what I am doing for the mag, only I am writing and stylizing everything vs. a writer AND a separate stylist coming in to execute everything

stldenise · Jul 1, 2009

Ug. After looking this over, I don't think I'd call this mag a "fine publication". Just so you know, there are many magazines that pay on acceptance - I have 4 or so briefs submitted to a children's magazine and they paid me back when I submitted the article. The editor doesn't even know when they'll see print, because my briefs are mostly evergreen and can get bumped for more important stuff.

I've also worked with a couple magazines that pay on publication - they send the check when the magazine hits the stands.

60 days past publication isn't unheard of, but it's not normal either. I think magazines that don't have a decent budget need to work this way.

Oh, and "advertorial" would be thoses sections in magazines that LOOK like another story, but they have a fine type above that says "Advertisement". They're ads made to look like editorial content.

If you don't get want you want, you might want to shop your column around. And if it isn't bringing in business, go ahead and tell them that if they don't give you better treatment you're going to quit. Sounds like you have nothing to lose.

anonymice · Jul 3, 2009

"Shop your column around," wrote stldenise. That's some industry advice if I ever heard it. Syndicate your column. You'll be glad you did. With all those clips and a syndicated column it might lead to book deal. --Good Luck

amv28 · Jul 6, 2009

Thank you again, everyone

I did rehash the subject with the editor and she said no, no, no, to the advertising trade. But of course if I wanted to BUY advertising then we could do that. I guess b/c THAT wouldn't seem like advertorial content. (rolls eyes) And she said that they will not pay me more. And that they own the photos for the tenure of the publication. I can use them on a website (generous) but never in an ad or on a billboard etc. Nope. And if I wanted to use photos, then I should hire the photographer directly on a separate shoot. Yup. Her explanation was that the photographer feels that it's her expertise, time and money for equipment that go into the photoshoot and all of those combined are required to pull off the images. I guess my expertise, time and money, plus knowledge of photo composition aren't worth a dime especially since they sell ads to other design firms on the interior design section of the mag due to my column being in there. Nah. I'm sure that any old joe could pull off what I do. My plan is to shop it around, like you have mentioned, and see what comes of it.

Oh! And to get y'all even more riled up, she told me that the other writers are just so happy to even be writing for a magazine and consider it free advertisement.

Again, I am so appreciative for all of the advice. I'll report back if anything interesting develops.

ETA: I was by no means insinuating that I would rip the photographer off! I wanted to share copyright and pay extra for the rights to the photos, but alas, no. My work, is not my work in the end.

~amv28

CatMuse33 · Jul 6, 2009

AMV,
Stick to your guns! I personally believe the editor stating that "other writers are just so happy to be writing for the magazine" was unprofessional. You deserve to be treated better.

Good luck with selling the column elsewhere.

Dawn

amv28 · Aug 27, 2009

Well, HA! Jokes on me!

After NOT heeding your advice, I ended up getting screwed!!

My plan was this: For the next few months I would knock it out of the park for my remaining issues, then go ahead and cease writing for the publication at the new year. From a marketing perspective, this made the most sense b/c we have a few holidays coming up and the opportunity to really shine is great with those types of special features. Plus the only reason that I wrote the column was to raise market awareness of my business in my city.

I finished my September issue, and started thinking about October, in which I emailed the editor about a topic yesterday morning. (I'm loyal till the bitter end!)

At around 1:30 p.m. I receive AN EMAIL. Yes, an EMAIL explaining that they will be taking a new direction and my column is being axed. Yep. How professional! (remember, this is no national mag here....we talk to each other quite frequently.) Immediately, I call the sender and we discuss this. I was so shocked that I almost couldn't believe what I was hearing! **Oh! But! they want me to write every now and again, b/c they will be rotating the decor writers out month to month (yay for consistency!) I say: Hell no! They are f'ing nuts if they think I'd do that!

I ask her about payment. They are FIVE months behind on payment with me. So, I tell her that we will be making a clean break, so I expect to be paid in full asap. She then responds that she knows that they intend on paying me, but does not know when. I explain that this response is unacceptable. I sent both she and the accounts-payable lady an email detailing exactly how this payment bs is going to be handled, and of course I have not gotten a reply yet. I guess the next step is to bully them with a legal notice stating that payment is due.

So yeah, jokes on me! I should have listened to you all!

It's not the end of the world, and I certainly have alternative avenues and vehicles in which my voice can be heard, so I'm not sweating it. But boy is my ego bruised! Always sucks to be the fire-ee and not the fire-er! Pfft! Especially when you planned on telling them goodbye first!

Thanks a lot, everyone. You all were so helpful. I'll certainly know how to navigate this for next time

KTC · Aug 27, 2009

oh boy. that's too bad. Just please...keep needling them until they pay you what they owe you. Sorry to hear how this turned out. Sometimes we need an experience like this under our belts. Good luck on your future projects.

Cate · Aug 27, 2009

I'm so sorry to hear that. I concur. Make sure that you get paid. Even if you have to send an e-mail weekly until the check is cut. Let us know if they pony up!

BrookieCookie777 · Aug 27, 2009

Usually you get paid on acceptance of the article. $50 for an article to a local pub actually is pretty norm. Local pubs are usually small and operate on a very small budget. Some really, really small (circulating under 5,000 copies) don't pay anything at all.

But in the larger scale of things, if you were to put the pay of this pub up against a larger one like Women's Day or Glamour etc. it is a small check. But again, small local pubs often don't have much to give.

If they agreed to pay you $50 per article though, it is very unprofessional to call "takesies backsies." If they have not paid you for several issues, I would say move on. And unless you came out and were rude about it, I can't see why they would say what they said to you. (Really can't understand it in any regard.) Again, very unprofessional.

Are their other local magazines with the same general idea? I would look around and pitch your column to others. Maybe even set your sights a bit higher.

Hope this helps.

JanineWrites · Aug 29, 2009

Wow, sounds like they are hard up

Hi everyone. I am new here, well kind of...I was a freelancer and member of AW several years ago until I took a full time job as a newspaper and special sections editor.

I can say this, as an editor who has hired many local up and coming freelancers:

They are trying to bully you. I worked for a paper with a similar M.O.

You were getting too pushy and so they developed a "new direction." Which just means that they found somebody else who is willing to do the work for free.

As an editor I was the one forced to make the calls to my freelancers telling them that we would no longer be paying them. We would say that the rate we had been paying them was a "misunderstanding," which had fallen through the cracks with accounting for the last X number of years.

Our publisher(s), we had three during my tenure, were constantly under the gun to cut costs. It was even rumored that, if they were able to come in under budget, they would get a bonus equivalent to the difference.

Our "standard" as a newspaper was to pay monthly for all articles PRINTED the previous month - so in essence we paid 30 days after publication. However, we routinely missed payments and had to give the old "checks in the mail" speech.

I could go on and on about the abuses that small papers, including the ones I have worked for, put their freelancers through.

The only thing you can do is live and learn.

twnkltoz · Aug 30, 2009

Well, I'm sorry it happened this way and that they owe you money, but I think it's for the best--you need to sell your work where you'll be better appreciated! Good luck!

mathewferguson · Oct 11, 2009

Wow, what a journey this thread is. From advice to being screwed all in one page!

It sounds to me that you don't actually have any contact with this publisher. Would that be correct?

If not then you are in a good position: you haven't signed away your copyright and they don't have permission from you to do anything with your work past first rights printing.

On the photographer and photography - they own the copyright to their photograph and won't share copyright with you. It doesn't matter what kind of styling you did - they pressed the button, they own the copyright to the image.

To move forward I suggest you get yourself a copy of all your material -- buying it if necessary. Scan it and put it in your portfolio. Then shop your column around. You can reprint the text online sans photographs also.

To get paid - resend your invoice to the accounts person with a clear time limit, say 14 days. After 14 days send them first overdue notice and give them another seven days. If they call you or contact you then sweetly say that if it is about the invoice and them not paying then they will need to have the conversation in writing. That will usually get some money happening because it is very clear you are collecting evidence of their non-payment.

mljoshua · Oct 23, 2009

mathewferguson said:
Wow, what a journey this thread is. From advice to being screwed all in one page!

It sounds to me that you don't actually have any contact with this publisher. Would that be correct?

If not then you are in a good position: you haven't signed away your copyright and they don't have permission from you to do anything with your work past first rights printing.

On the photographer and photography - they own the copyright to their photograph and won't share copyright with you. It doesn't matter what kind of styling you did - they pressed the button, they own the copyright to the image.

To move forward I suggest you get yourself a copy of all your material -- buying it if necessary. Scan it and put it in your portfolio. Then shop your column around. You can reprint the text online sans photographs also.

To get paid - resend your invoice to the accounts person with a clear time limit, say 14 days. After 14 days send them first overdue notice and give them another seven days. If they call you or contact you then sweetly say that if it is about the invoice and them not paying then they will need to have the conversation in writing. That will usually get some money happening because it is very clear you are collecting evidence of their non-payment.

If it helps - I've been a Controller and Credit/Collections Manager for many years - if you would like help formulating what is termed a "Final Demand" for payment, let me know - I can forward you some verbiage that is standard and pretty effective. But if you think that would simply hurt your image in the industry, I understand that as well.

Tell me, am I getting screwed?

amv28

CatMuse33

Just hitting send

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

CatMuse33

Just hitting send

Kris

like motherf&cking Tolstoy

Kris

like motherf&cking Tolstoy

amv28

Millicent M'Lady

Exploring the infinite abyss

amv28

CatMuse33

Just hitting send

telindor

amv28

stldenise

Scout Mom

anonymice

amv28

CatMuse33

Just hitting send

amv28

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Cate

Never Bored

BrookieCookie777

JanineWrites

Returning to Freelancing

twnkltoz

mathewferguson

mljoshua

Still learning