Info about being winded/gutpunched.

Rufus Coppertop · Jun 19, 2009

In my steampunk novel, the two MC's, a pair of twelve year old boys, get beaten up by a gang of solidly built fifteen year olds who want to cause pain and humiliation but not damage.

They hold their arms behind their backs and punch them fairly hard in the gut, which of course means the solar plexus and hence they're winded and make some godawful noises when they get their breath back.

Fortunately, they get rescued by some adults who need to carry them away from the beating venue because they're virtually paralysed by the pain.

Does anyone have a realistic idea of when their gut aches would subside and they can go about their business as usual; walk about, eat, ride bikes etc?

Would they be fine after half an hour, or would they need to take it easy for several hours?

RJK · Jun 19, 2009

A well targeted punch to the solar plexus will knock the breath out of your victim for about 30 - 45 seconds, withthe last fifteen seconds slowly regaining yur ability to breathe. The pain is no more than any other punch. He should be back up and ready to fight in a minute or two after he's breating again.

dgiharris · Jun 20, 2009

RJK said:
A well targeted punch to the solar plexus will knock the breath out of your victim for about 30 - 45 seconds, withthe last fifteen seconds slowly regaining yur ability to breathe. The pain is no more than any other punch. He should be back up and ready to fight in a minute or two after he's breating again.

Has anyone in this thread ever had the air knocked out of them?

I used to do martial arts, football, and boxing and have a lot of experience in this area LOL.

getting the Air Knocked out of you is a horrible experience and you think you are going to fucking die. Your body screams that you are going to die since you can't breath. The pain is excruciating.

Depending on the extent of the blow, the harder the blow, the more air that gets knocked out, the harder the diagraphm is impacted.

The worst that ever happened to me was in football, I almost lost consciousness, but got my air back in 30 - 45 seconds.

The funny thing about this type of injury is that once you recover, the majority of the pain fades immediately and you are good as new within a minute.

So I have a suggestion. Have a friend punch you in the solar plex and knock the air out of you.

Yes, i'm serious. If you are going to write about it, might as well experience it. In fact, I can't believe you are asking. Did you ever play any sports growing up?

Mel...

Izz · Jun 20, 2009

dgiharris said:
Has anyone in this thread ever had the air knocked out of them?

Yep. Playing rugby, getting into fights, etc

getting the Air Knocked out of you is a horrible experience and you think you are going to fucking die. Your body screams that you are going to die since you can't breath. The pain is excruciating.

Yep. You're literally sure you're about to die.

The worst that ever happened to me was in football, I almost lost consciousness, but got my air back in 30 - 45 seconds.

I got an elbow in the solar plexus once from some kid walking past in the corridor. I wasn't expecting it, so could do nothing to prepare myself (not that one can do much to prepare oneself other than tense stomach muscles), and i was gasping and unable to breath or talk for a good minute. Of course, all my mates wondered what had happened because nobody spotted the elbow. Damn lucky shot on the kid's part, too.

The funny thing about this type of injury is that once you recover, the majority of the pain fades immediately and you are good as new within a minute.

Or possibly two, in my worst case. But that's from only one blow, not necessarily more.

Rufus Coppertop said:
Fortunately, they get rescued by some adults who need to carry them away from the beating venue because they're virtually paralysed by the pain.

I have trouble imagining them being paralyzed, yet conscious, for such a length of time that they need to be carried away from the scene. I see it as far more likely that due to the repeated punching and the inability to draw in breath they'd black out and lose consciousness, but probably not for more than a couple of minutes. It *is* possible for someone to be killed if they're punched repeatedly in the solar plexus area. Vomiting is also a likely result.

Also, the exact 'winding' spot is hard to hit accurately, even if someone is being held down. Personal experience, again from school (and i don't say this with pride): got in a fight with a kid, had him by the collar with my left hand and was repeatedly driving fists into his gut. Pretty good power behind them. I hurt him, but never actually winded him properly. Fight wound down and he was a tiny bit winded and in a wee bit of pain, but nothing more.

more info about solar plexus here, though this is only wikipedia and not a medical textbook

A gut punch is different from being punched in the solar plexus. Boxers take gut punches all the time. Ever wonder why a boxer always compresses his chest and shoulders when he comes in to work his opponent's body over from close range? To minimize the solar plexus area so it's less likely he'll get hit there (of course, i'm no pro boxer, so i might be wrong

).

Does anyone have a realistic idea of when their gut aches would subside and they can go about their business as usual; walk about, eat, ride bikes etc?

Would they be fine after half an hour, or would they need to take it easy for several hours?

If it's a beating to the abdominal region, rather than the solar plexus specifically, then it would depend on the severity of the beating, the strength of their stomach muscles, etc. Could range from anywhere to a minute or two to overnight. I know from memory that sometimes pummelings to the gut don't hurt until the next morning, but unless an abdominal muscle is torn, or a kidney or another organ bruised, it's unlikely to keep them from doing things as normal. Might just be a bit achy.

RunawayScribe · Jun 20, 2009

dgiharris said:
Has anyone in this thread ever had the air knocked out of them?

Yep. Several times. Hurts like a beast. I'm with you there.

It's excruciating and aches miserably for maybe a minute. The pain is consuming and staggering. Afterward you might be a bit shaken, but you'll be up and ready to go again.

dgiharris said:
So I have a suggestion. Have a friend punch you in the solar plex and knock the air out of you.

Yes, i'm serious. If you are going to write about it, might as well experience it.

You know, this isn't a horrible idea. I mean, it's going to suck, but within reason I support this kind of research. I made it into my late teens/early 20s without ever being a drinker, and when I had an MC have to get completely trashed a few years ago, I sat down alone at home with the rum, grape juice and beer and spent an hour getting myself wasted. It sucked, but I firmly believe the scene is better for it. The hangover scene that followed just came to life too...blech.

RJK · Jun 20, 2009

I wouldn't suggest allowing someone to punch your unprotected abdomen (unless you're rocky Balboa). A hard enough hit could rupture one of the diaphragm muscles, then you'd be in pain for months. If you flinch, just to the right and left of the solar plexus are floating ribs. These are the ones that are easily broken.
Bad idea.

Rufus Coppertop · Jun 20, 2009

RunawayScribe said:
Yep. Several times. Hurts like a beast. I'm with you there.

It's excruciating and aches miserably for maybe a minute. The pain is consuming and staggering. Afterward you might be a bit shaken, but you'll be up and ready to go again.

I know about the recovery after a minute because I've both seen it and experienced it.

The reason I asked is because I remember being a kid at a bush league football game (Aussie Rules) and a member of my stepfather's team after the game, was doubled up holding his gut at least ten minutes after being punched at the end of the game.

I'm wondering if the recovery after a minute thing means that the solar plexus itself wasn't actually struck.

dgiharris · Jun 20, 2009

RJK said:
I wouldn't suggest allowing someone to punch your unprotected abdomen (unless you're rocky Balboa). A hard enough hit could rupture one of the diaphragm muscles, then you'd be in pain for months. If you flinch, just to the right and left of the solar plexus are floating ribs. These are the ones that are easily broken.
Bad idea.

No, you are being overly dramatic. The human body is incredibly tough, and as long as the person hitting you isn't doing so with a baseball bat, you are going to be o.k.

The solar plex is right beneath the sternum, a decent punch when you aren't expecting it will knock the air right out of you. (Just ask Isaac

)

Isaac Espriu said:
Also, the exact 'winding' spot is hard to hit accurately, even if someone is being held down.

Yeah, the exact spot is literally the diameter of a quarter and is in the 'gap' between the notch on the bottom of your sternum and the lining of your abdomen. In martial arts, we used to call it 'the button'

When you are expecting it (body tense) it makes it a lot harder to knock the air out. Depending on the strength of your abdominal muscles (and if you have some belly bulk/fat), it can be damn near impossible.

But when you aren't expecting it. Ahhh... that's the good stuff.

For shits and giggles in high school, we'd try to knock the air out of each other all the time. Another fun game we used to play is to bend over, hyperventalate (breath as deep and as fast as we could for 30 seconds) then hold your last breath. Then someone behind you would pick you up in a reverse bear hug while their first was over your solar plex. They would pick you up and squeeze.

This would make you pass out (relatively painless) for anywhere from 30 seconds to a few minutes (we used to bet on it).

As for taking a beating. Isaac is right, depends on the extent of the beating. The abdomen is incredibly tough, but it is composed of muscles. Punches to the muscle will lead to bruising. Severe bruising leads to a lot of pain the next day and takes days to heal.

Mel...

Greenify13 · Jun 20, 2009

I've been punched in the gut plenty, but have only been "hit" (it was an elbow) at the right spot to have my air knocked out of me once. I thought I was ging to freakin' die, I couldn't breathe, couldn't concentrate, and it made sight very blurry. It didn't help that I thought I was going to die because I was on an operating table. Woo hoo (sarcastic)
It has many factors, but in the end if you get "winded" you'll probably think you're going to die...

som1luvsmi · Jun 20, 2009

My husband was in a lot of fights growing up and he has always said that a kidney shot hurts A LOT. The fights I've seen, there is always someone who takes that kidney shot. If I understand correctly, not only does it hurt, but there's a high chance that you could be peeing blood from it.

That's what I would use in your fight.

Does anyone have any experience with kidney shots?
Like I said, my info is second-hand.
I'll check with him when he gets here.

Cyia · Jun 20, 2009

If it's a severe beating, remember there's an abdominal aorta in there, too, along with the inferior vena cava.

And yes, a kidney punch is excruciating and potentially damaging in the long term or even lethal (but rarely so). That's why it's illegal in boxing.

Izz · Jun 20, 2009

Rufus Coppertop said:
I know about the recovery after a minute because I've both seen it and experienced it.

The reason I asked is because I remember being a kid at a bush league football game (Aussie Rules) and a member of my stepfather's team after the game, was doubled up holding his gut at least ten minutes after being punched at the end of the game.

I'm wondering if the recovery after a minute thing means that the solar plexus itself wasn't actually struck.

Or it could mean that he wasn't struck in the solar plexus, but rather suffered a minor abdominal tear from the punch, or something like that. That's entirely plausible, especially at the end of an intense and physical game where his abdominal muscles would've already taken plenty of knocks.

Summonere · Jun 21, 2009

Does anyone have any experience with kidney shots?

Sort of. Sparred with a guy ages ago who wasn't guarding effectively against punches I managed to slip beneath his pointy elbows. He turned away during an exchange of blows and took a shot to the kidneys. Said later that he peed blood for days afterward.

As for solar plexus punches, I've had the wind knocked out of me lots of times in lots of ways, but it was only during the first, when I was kid, that I had the, “This is probably going to kill me because I can't breathe anymore,” reaction. After that, getting my breath knocked out was just a nuisance, and not gratuitously painful. This, of course, can only mean that I was either one tough SOB during my martial days, or that these were not the most precise of blows. (I suspect only one of these is true.)

Were I kid, though, getting the breath pummeled out of me, having never experienced that before, I'd be pretty sure that it would kill me. It's alarming to realize that you can't breathe anymore, and that nothing you do – if you can do anything at all – will fix that.

I wouldn't suggest allowing someone to punch your unprotected abdomen (unless you're rocky Balboa). A hard enough hit could rupture one of the diaphragm muscles, then you'd be in pain for months.

Isn't this what happened to Houdini?

TabithaTodd · Jun 21, 2009

I don't mean to derail...even without a xaphoid process (solar plexus area has a bone structure called a xaphoid process) it hurts like the dickens.

Used to study the arts myself as well. It winds you for a good 45 to 60 seconds (depending on person) and hurts like you stubbed your toe on a metal leg of a desk. In this case the process from hit to catching breath is as follows.

1. Hit
2. Forceful Exhalation
3. Recovery (between 1 to 5 minutes)
4. Inhalation (may hurt) with possible sucking sounds of air
5. Ready to go

Cheesy list but that's the basics.

Rufus Coppertop · Jun 21, 2009

som1luvsmi said:
My husband was in a lot of fights growing up and he has always said that a kidney shot hurts A LOT. The fights I've seen, there is always someone who takes that kidney shot. If I understand correctly, not only does it hurt, but there's a high chance that you could be peeing blood from it.

That's what I would use in your fight.

It's not a fight as such, but it's definitely a beating.

Two of the bullies hold their arms behind their backs while the boss bully gut punches them once and then they let go of their arms. After they've got their breath back and stopped bleating, they get another hard gutpunch.

The bullies have been forbidden to damage them in any way by the head of the sect they're in who wants information from the two boys. The bullies interpret this liberally when they catch the MC's and give them what they consider to be a damage-free beating.

There's no desire to do anything that is likely to cause injury but causing pain and humiliation? Knocking the masculine pride out of them along with the wind? Absolutely!

jclarkdawe · Jun 21, 2009

One thing with the sternum is that you can produce a lot of pain without much real damage. Gut shots tend to produce a lot of bruising, while a hit to the sternum might not leave any bruising.

EMTs use a scale called the AVPU scale to assess for alertness.

A stands for alert.

V stands for the patient responding to voice commands. In other words, if I talked to you, and you blinked, then you were responding to my voice.

P stands for pain. At a deeper level of consciousness, you are no longer be able to respond to voice, but you will respond to pain. The three choices usually used are an ear pinch, the fingernail press, or a sternal rub. Because of the amount of pain a sternal rub causes, and the chances of complications (including the patient belting the EMT administering it), many areas no longer allow EMTs to administer sternal rubs. The pain tests are chosen for their ease of administration, while having a low likelihood of causing damage, including bruising.

U stands for unresponsive to voice or pain.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

JrFFKacy · Jun 21, 2009

jclarkdawe said:
One thing with the sternum is that you can produce a lot of pain without much real damage. Gut shots tend to produce a lot of bruising, while a hit to the sternum might not leave any bruising.

EMTs use a scale called the AVPU scale to assess for alertness.

A stands for alert.

V stands for the patient responding to voice commands. In other words, if I talked to you, and you blinked, then you were responding to my voice.

P stands for pain. At a deeper level of consciousness, you are no longer be able to respond to voice, but you will respond to pain. The three choices usually used are an ear pinch, the fingernail press, or a sternal rub. Because of the amount of pain a sternal rub causes, and the chances of complications (including the patient belting the EMT administering it), many areas no longer allow EMTs to administer sternal rubs. The pain tests are chosen for their ease of administration, while having a low likelihood of causing damage, including bruising.

U stands for unresponsive to voice or pain.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Useful info!

I was thinking I'd never been punched in the gut (except for that one fight I got into with a boy because he said something bad about girls... He wasn't quite agressive enough to really belt me, so it didn't really hurt), then I remembered the time I was playing floor hockey with the Pastor's son in the church basement.

The basement is constructed with painted cement blocks and I tried to bodycheck an opposing team-member to steal the tennis ball we were playing with. I caught the bottom of my stick in a groove in the wall. The stick sprung back and the end of the handle nailed me just below my ribcage. I don't remember really having trouble breathing, but I did sort of drop to the floor, yelling I was fine and everyone else could keep playing (I hate to spoil a good game ya know, and hate being fussed over).

I didn't get up for a couple of minutes, but was fine after that. I don't bruise easily, so I didn't have any marks from hitting the stick, but my gut hurt the next day. I don't know if that would really count as a beating, but it was a pretty hard blow.

Izz · Jun 21, 2009

JrFFKacy said:
I don't remember really having trouble breathing, but I did sort of drop to the floor, yelling I was fine and everyone else could keep playing (I hate to spoil a good game ya know, and hate being fussed over).

if you could yell then it's pretty unlikely you were having any breathing trouble

Sounds like you probably bruised an abdominal muscle.

Rufus Coppertop · Jun 21, 2009

I may well reconsider the severity of the MC's reactions and the length of recovery time needed in light of what people have said here.

Thanks for you input, everyone. If anyone else wishes to contribute, I'll certainly read their posts and consider their opinions.

Info about being winded/gutpunched.

Rufus Coppertop

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

Izz

Doing the Space Operatic

RunawayScribe

It is what it is.

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

Rufus Coppertop

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

Greenify13

Fair Maiden of War.

som1luvsmi

My brother loves me thiiis much! :)

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Izz

Doing the Space Operatic

Summonere

TabithaTodd

Rufus Coppertop

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

JrFFKacy

Rookie Firefighter

Izz

Doing the Space Operatic

Rufus Coppertop