Submission dilemma

dottigirl · Jun 15, 2009

And not one of the kinky kind, although there's some bondage-lite.

I've been lurking here for a while, saving some of CC's excellent advice so I can read it offline and reading some of the other threads.

I've written my masterpiece. Well, something a couple of people say I should definitely submit.

It's definitely a romance, maybe chick lit on the outside. Rich alpha male hero, strong female heroine, rugby theme/scenes (inspired by the M&B recent line but that's one of my interests anyway). Locations include international and glamorous, but also in a rugby club, watching games, in the pub, curry house...normal British occupations.

There's a fair bit of sex in it, especially in the first three chapters. Apparently it's 'tastefully done' though.

It's currently 53k words with wiggle room for more. I've been looking at submitting it unagented to Mills & Boon (M&B) Modern (I'm in the UK if you hadn't guessed) or to Little Black Dress (imprint of Headline) which looks for 60-80k.

My queries are:

- How picky will M&B be about the 'international locations bit'? Are they going to get sniffy about the pub? My heroine drinks pints but is quite well-mannered.

- Should I look for an agent first? If a publisher wants it, will I get screwed without an agent?
Would an agent take on someone specifically writing M&B? (I have a list of agents to approach with a couple recommended for chick-lit type stuff but not for M&B.)

- And...err...(the dirty question)...how does the money compare between going with M&B/Harlequin to going to around 80k with someone like Headline or anyone mainstream? I've read that being a M&B/Harlequin author is quite prestigious, but do you have to rattle them out to make a living?

Btw, I've written over 25k for the sequel (secondary characters from the first) but I've been putting off doing anything about the first because...I'm scared! But my mother's pestering me to get it in and you know what they can be like.

dottigirl · Jun 15, 2009

Oh, I've just realised how long my first post was. Oops.

Any help/opinions/unbridled laughter gratefully appreciated though. Ta.

Lainey Bancroft · Jun 15, 2009

dottigirl said:
And not one of the kinky kind, although there's some bondage-lite.

I've been lurking here for a while, saving some of CC's excellent advice so I can read it offline and reading some of the other threads.

I've written my masterpiece. Well, something a couple of people say I should definitely submit.

Congrats on crossing the finish line and getting ready to submit!

It's definitely a romance, maybe chick lit on the outside. Rich alpha male hero, strong female heroine, rugby theme/scenes (inspired by the M&B recent line but that's one of my interests anyway). Locations include international and glamorous, but also in a rugby club, watching games, in the pub, curry house...normal British occupations.

There's a fair bit of sex in it, especially in the first three chapters. Apparently it's 'tastefully done' though.

It's currently 53k words with wiggle room for more. I've been looking at submitting it unagented to Mills & Boon (M&B) Modern (I'm in the UK if you hadn't guessed) or to Little Black Dress (imprint of Headline) which looks for 60-80k.

My queries are:

- How picky will M&B be about the 'international locations bit'? Are they going to get sniffy about the pub? My heroine drinks pints but is quite well-mannered.

Your best bet is to read a good dozen+ of the M & B recent releases to get a broader understanding of the 'heat level' of sex scenes and the type of locations/behaviors displayed.

- Should I look for an agent first? If a publisher wants it, will I get screwed without an agent?
Would an agent take on someone specifically writing M&B? (I have a list of agents to approach with a couple recommended for chick-lit type stuff but not for M&B.)

Both these publishers are established enough that you're not going to "get screwed" There are a couple Harlequin authors floating around here who can probably offer a more insightful response than mine, but FWIW, money-wise Har/Sil/M&B is not rumored to have a lot of wiggle room on advances--particularly for new authors-- so aside from clarification of confusing rights clauses etc. an agent is not really necessary. As I understand it, agented and unagented authors are treated equally.

- And...err...(the dirty question)...how does the money compare between going with M&B/Harlequin to going to around 80k with someone like Headline or anyone mainstream? I've read that being a M&B/Harlequin author is quite prestigious, but do you have to rattle them out to make a living?

Hey, we do it for love and/or obsessive compulsions, but everybody knows we'd all like to make a buck too. Nothing dirty about asking about money, but the answer is probably muddied waters. In the beginning, regardless of which publisher or imprint or whatever you write for, you're going to have to "rattle them out to make a living." Or at least to make a name. I can't speak for Headline/LBD, but I know some of the well-established Har/Sil/M&B authors do quite well.

Btw, I've written over 25k for the sequel (secondary characters from the first) but I've been putting off doing anything about the first because...I'm scared! But my mother's pestering me to get it in and you know what they can be like.

Nothing to be scared of! The worst they can say is "NO" in which case you 'tweak' accordingly and send to your next target. The best they can say is "YES" in which case you carry on with your sequel. In the meantime, I'd be sure your sequel isn't 'dependant' on the first story but can 'stand alone' just in case the first strikes out. (p.s, don't put in your query: "My mum really loves this and can't wait to buy the sequel

)

Good luck!

para · Jun 15, 2009

The guidelines are here for M&B: http://www.millsandboon.co.uk/aspiringauthors.asp

Length: 50,000-55,000 words
Senior Editor: Tessa Shapcot
Editorial Office: London

The Modern Romance (Harlequin Presents) line offers the ultimate in emotional and sensual excitement!

Although grounded in reality and reflective of contemporary, relevant trends, these fast-paced stories are essentially escapist romantic fantasies that take the reader on an emotional roller-coater ride. Written in the third person, they can be from the male or female point of view, or seen through the eyes of both protagonists. All are set in sophisticated, glamorous, international locations.

With its focus on strong, wealthy, breathtakingly charismatic alpha-heroes who are tamed by spirited, independent heroines, the central relationship in a Presents novel is a provocatively passionate, highly charged affair, driven by conflict, emotional intensity and overwhelming physical attraction, which may include explicit lovemaking.

We advise keeping in touch with current reader preferences by reading the most recent titles available in the Harlequin Presents line. However, we are looking for fresh new voices, so the ability to take popular emotional themes and develop them through innovative, dramatic and compelling storytelling is an important factor in getting published.

New authors should submit the first three chapters and a synopsis. Agented or unagented submissions are welcome.

You really need to read the most recent books being published from a line you are targeting to see if what you are writing fits in. I haven't read M&B for a few months so things may have changed but Presents never struck me as a particularly chicklit type line. Perhaps you should consider some of the other lines like perhaps Blaze?

Others will disagree but I don't think there is much point for an agent if you are in the UK and only want to write for M&B. The contract is ironclad - they take all rights, no negotiation. Once you get a contract you can join the society of authors and get one of their contract lawyers to look it over for a nominal fee (they also collect your library borrowing fees). I know of one agented author who's agent told her to negotiate herself because the agent wouldn't be able to get her a better deal. I think there are probably differences if you are in the US - I've heard agents can get promo dollars, first crack at writing series or being put into the best seller reprints etc.

brainstorm77 · Jun 15, 2009

I agree. Harlequin is very specific with their lines on what they want for each. You can listen to podcasts on E Harlequin in the writers section to hear what the editors for each line are looking for. The podcasts go into more details then the guidelines.

dottigirl · Jun 16, 2009

Thanks for all your help so far. I've read the guidelines many times and several books recently, (they've been my book of choice when insomnia kicks in for years so I've seen how much they've changed).

I've been checking as I've been writing to get the wording at the right level and I'd say it was around Modern Heat/Blaze. Although it's a bit too British for Blaze; I've never read a Blaze set in the UK (I suspect this may be because UK romance authors are submitting to M&B instead of sending overseas).

The only real sticking point is the All are set in sophisticated, glamorous, international locations bit.

That's why I thought I may expand and try somewhere else.

Thank you all for reassuring me about the agent/publisher. My day job has left me quite cynical. I suppose out of my list of agents I need to find a sympathetic one who'll read it and advise me which way to go.

Susan Gable · Jun 16, 2009

As far as money is concerned, I do that it all depends on which single title publisher you go with. Sometimes you can actually make more money at H/S. (Or M&B in this case.)

The Presents line is one of the top selling, and the M&B Heat also do very well, I think.

I doubt they'll get sniffy about the pub, nor about a heroine drinking a pint.

Some agents do take writers who are writing for H/S/M&B. Some don't. You'll have to check their guidelines before you submit.

No, you won't get screwed without an agent. But you'd better do your homework first.

HQ is very set in what the advance is for a first-time author. (Heck, they're very set in what the advance is for returning authors, too.) Yes, they're very set in the contract about a LOT of things. But I hear that an agent can get you some changes. I also managed to get myself a few changes.

So the question becomes is it worth paying 15% for what an agent can do for you in category. Some authors swear yes, some say no. <G>

Anyway...best of luck with the submission.

Susan G.

LorelieBrown · Jun 16, 2009

A resource maintained by Brenda Hiatt:

http://www.brendahiatt.com/id2.html

These *are* US publishers/figures, but maybe it'll help a little. Also, figures are all based on information voluntarily provided by authors so grain of salt and all that.

para · Jun 17, 2009

IIRC those figures are very, very out of date - She does up date it but I believe some Harlequin authors have asked her to remove the high figures because nobody makes that any more but she hasn't done so. If you use the figures you should take the lowest figure as an estimation of the most you will make on your first book.

Good luck with your submission dottigirl. The worst they can do is say no, and then you will know from the horses mouth as it were that it is not what they are looking for.

Gillhoughly · Jun 17, 2009

If it's that good, start shopping for an agent and let her worry about where to place your work while you write more.

Good luck!

LorelieBrown · Jun 17, 2009

para said:
IIRC those figures are very, very out of date - She does up date it but I believe some Harlequin authors have asked her to remove the high figures because nobody makes that any more but she hasn't done so. If you use the figures you should take the lowest figure as an estimation of the most you will make on your first book.

Hmm, good to know. I hadn't heard that. I'm a pessimist though, so the low figures were what I was looking at anyway.

Click to expand...

dottigirl · Jun 18, 2009

I listened to the Presents podcast and virtually ticked every box! However...

I've done some more research and been reading other threads and come across a hitch...word count!

I've been using the MS Word count, which makes the first novel around 52k, plus I know I need to add a minimum of 3k to smooth some areas out. Just done a quick estimate using the character & 250/page methods and made it...58-60k. Oops.

So I think it's either agent or LBD as my next step.

EDIT: Eek, I've just read another couple of posts which said that Harlequin use MS now, and in the UK they use it too.

(Btw, you're all brilliant. Virtual Green & Blacks Dark Chocolate all round.)

Susan Gable · Jun 19, 2009

dottigirl said:
I've done some more research and been reading other threads and come across a hitch...word count!

I've been using the MS Word count, which makes the first novel around 52k, plus I know I need to add a minimum of 3k to smooth some areas out. Just done a quick estimate using the character & 250/page methods and made it...58-60k. Oops.

So I think it's either agent or LBD as my next step.

EDIT: Eek, I've just read another couple of posts which said that Harlequin use MS now, and in the UK they use it too.

(Btw, you're all brilliant. Virtual Green & Blacks Dark Chocolate all round.)

Yes, HQ is now using the computer word count. Look, as long as you're CLOSE to the word count, go ahead and submit. There is still a little wiggle-room. Plus changes would be made during the editing process. If you're close, submit. <G>

Stop fretting, just DO IT!!! LOL.

Susan G.

Submission dilemma

dottigirl

dottigirl

Lainey Bancroft

Cover Me!

para

brainstorm77

practical experience, FTW

dottigirl

Susan Gable

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

LorelieBrown

Got the hang of it, here

para

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

LorelieBrown

Got the hang of it, here

dottigirl

Susan Gable

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales