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brainstorm77
06-12-2009, 11:42 PM
I cannot have children, I won't go into the medical reasons why but I will never be able to have them.
Some time ago a guy I was seeing for a bit broke up with me when he found this out stating that he wanted kids and that if i couldn't he didn't see a future with me. What do you make of that? I am asking for thoughts and opinions on the subject.
BTW if I could have them I probably would and a part of me feels I may miss out. And I felt like crap when he said that to me.

Seaclusion
06-12-2009, 11:46 PM
Just my humble opinion, but don't sweat it. I have no children (by choice) and do not regret it one bit. In fact, I have been able to do many things I would never have been able to do if I had kids.

You will find someone who has no problem with the situation and you will both find your own solution and happiness together.

Richard

James81
06-12-2009, 11:47 PM
Nah, don't take it personally. You guys were just incompatible, that's all. Trust me, not all guys are like that. I already have two kids, so it wouldn't make a difference to me either way (whether I had another one or not). And a lot of guys are in the same position.

It's not a personal jab at you. I feel for you, though, cause it still hurts to break up, no matter what the reason.

scarletpeaches
06-12-2009, 11:48 PM
First of all, I'm very sorry to hear that, brainstorm. :Hug2:

I'm coming at this as someone who doesn't want kids but that doesn't stop me - I hope - being able to sympathise with you being denied something you desire.

Personally I feel that if a man loves you, he should love you, not your reproductive abilities but for some, children are a dealbreaker. That makes me think he was more into what you could give him, than you yourself.

It's his right to break up with you, but it obviously doesn't stop it hurting. I've broken up with guys and they've broken up with me over this issue, (although I'm a won't rather than a can't, as far as I know anyway) and...sheesh. I don't know what to say.

Life's a bitch.

:Hug2:

Stew21
06-12-2009, 11:49 PM
The person who is right for you, even if he wants kids, will not end your relationship because you can't physically have them. You would find a solution in either a)not having any children and being at peace with that b) having a surrogate or c) adopting.

The right person would stick. And not physicallly having children does not mean that you will never be a mother.

((hugs)) I'm very sorry to hear this.

spamwarrior
06-12-2009, 11:50 PM
What sp had. Also I'm sure you'll be able to find someone who has no problem with it. And who will love you for it.

brainstorm77
06-12-2009, 11:50 PM
Thanks everyone, Its good to hear other viewpoints on this. In some ways its like a personal shame for me. In my real life I never mention this and if anyone should ask if I have kids I just say no. I don't get into details.

scarletpeaches
06-12-2009, 11:50 PM
The person who is right for you, even if he wants kids, will not end your relationship because you can't physically have them. You would find a solution in either a)not having any children and being at peace with that b) having a surrogate or c) adopting.

The right person would stick. And not physicallly having children does not mean that you will never be a mother.

((hugs)) I'm very sorry to hear this.

QFT.

Remember this.

KTC
06-12-2009, 11:53 PM
I'm sorry to hear that you cannot have children. I do think that the ex-boyfriend made the right choice. It might have hurt you...but if you think about it in reverse...that's a huge sacrifice to make. He had to either be strong enough to make that decision, or do the right thing and break it off if children were too important to him to sacrifice...he did the right thing. You will find the right guy.

cray
06-12-2009, 11:54 PM
where would we be if we all had the same sort of life, brainstorm?





The right person would stick. And not physicallly having children does not mean that you will never be a mother.




and is it too early to say that haggis is a mother?

stormie
06-12-2009, 11:55 PM
Oh brainstorm, I'm sorry about your diagnosis to not be able to biologically have kids. If that puts a damper on a relationship--he's not worth it.

When and if you feel ready, maybe adopt. I know it's not cheap, and it's time-consuming, and some say it's not the same as being pregnant. (Ugh, I hated pregnancy. Loved the kids, hated, hated, hated, pregnancy. I was pregnant three times.) But there are so many wonderful kids out there, waiting for a loving home.

WendyNYC
06-13-2009, 12:01 AM
Oh brainstorm, I'm sorry about your diagnosis to not be able to biologically have kids. If that puts a damper on a relationship--he's not worth it.

When and if you feel ready, maybe adopt. I know it's not cheap, and it's time-consuming, and some say it's not the same as being pregnant. (Ugh, I hated pregnancy. Loved the kids, hated, hated, hated, pregnancy. I was pregnant three times.) But there are so many wonderful kids out there, waiting for a loving home.

I'm adopted and I agree with this. Pregnancy is overrated and I would never say that my biological kids are any "closer" to me than I was (am!) with my parents.

wannawrite
06-13-2009, 12:04 AM
I have two children. Can have no more. Was with a guy for over a year. Got engaged. He KNEW I could not have any more children from the very beginning. We fell in love, started planning the wedding...

...and he dumps me. Says he needs to have his own children. Being a father to mine is not enough for him. (bear in mind, he has been raising them as his own for nearly two years, at this point, and they love him fiercely. Plus, as I said, he knew all of this going in)

So...the point?

He was a jerk. Your guy was a jerk. I was willing to adopt, foster, invetro, do anything to have another little one. In this modern age, there are many, many ways to produce a child, some biological, some not. Not being able to bear your own child has nothing to do with being able to love one as your own. Don't give up hope, hon, if having a child is what you really, really want, it is a dream that can still come true. Just maybe not the way you had originally dreamed it.

Oh, and, you are far, far better off living out your dream without the destructive presence of someone who would strike such a low blow against you. But sometimes, shit just hurts, and there ain't enough chocolate in the world, huh? (BTW, the girls and me? We're doing just fine, on our own)

Best of luck, and if you need a shoulder, PM me.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 12:05 AM
I have two children. Can have no more. Was with a guy for over a year. Got engaged. He KNEW I could not have any more children from the very beginning. We fell in love, started planning the wedding...

...and he dumps me. Says he needs to have his own children. Being a father to mine is not enough for him. (bear in mind, he has been raising them as his own for nearly two years, at this point, and they love him fiercely. Plus, as I said, he knew all of this going in)

So...the point?

He was a jerk. Your guy was a jerk. I was willing to adopt, foster, invetro, do anything to have another little one. In this modern age, there are many, many ways to produce a child, some biological, some not. Not being able to bear your own child has nothing to do with being able to love one as your own. Don't give up hope, hon, if having a child is what you really, really want, it is a dream that can still come true. Just maybe not the way you had originally dreamed it.

Oh, and, you are far, far better off living out your dream without the destructive presence of someone who would strike such a low blow against you. But sometimes, shit just hurts, and there ain't enough chocolate in the world, huh? (BTW, the girls and me? We're doing just fine, on our own)

Best of luck, and if you need a shoulder, PM me.

WOW! This certainly makes me glad he told me early on. And thanks :Hug2:

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 12:06 AM
Plus, if you like, I could pay him a visit with a baseball bat, and sugar won't be having kids with anyone if you catch my drift...

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 12:08 AM
Bitch, please. I want the fun all to myself.

wannawrite
06-13-2009, 12:12 AM
I love the people on this thread.

melaniehoo
06-13-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm really sorry you've had to go through this. Break-ups suck no matter what the cause, and I'm sure this hurts.




When and if you feel ready, maybe adopt. I know it's not cheap, and it's time-consuming, and some say it's not the same as being pregnant. (Ugh, I hated pregnancy. Loved the kids, hated, hated, hated, pregnancy. I was pregnant three times.) But there are so many wonderful kids out there, waiting for a loving home.

My step-brother was adopted before my step-sister was born, and when they were kids he used to tell my sister that their parents wanted him more because they PAID for him, while she was a surprise (mother was told she couldn't have kids). He has no hang-ups about where he came from. :)

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 12:12 AM
I love the people on this thread.

Especially me, right?

I appear and you KNOW violence is gonna happen. :D

spamwarrior
06-13-2009, 12:13 AM
I'm really sorry you've had to go through this. Break-ups suck no matter what the cause, and I'm sure this hurts.




My step-brother was adopted before my step-sister was born, and when they were kids he used to tell my sister that their parents wanted him more because they PAID for him, while she was a surprise (mother was told she couldn't have kids). He has no hang-ups about where he came from. :)

LOL, that's really cute. :) I read something about an adopted kid where the other kid (not adopted) asked his parents if they were going to "buy" another brother.

quickWit
06-13-2009, 12:17 AM
I feel for you, brain. But, as others have already pointed out, he obviously wasn't the man you'd hoped he was, and adoption of a child is every bit as miraculous and transforming as the birth of a child.

Don't worry, brain. You'll get there. :)

aadams73
06-13-2009, 12:17 AM
I'll bring the scissors.

I'll take photos. We'll start a website with them and make a packet.

Button
06-13-2009, 12:17 AM
Plus, if you like, I could pay him a visit with a baseball bat, and sugar won't be having kids with anyone if you catch my drift...

Use fireworks. More sparkly.

KTC
06-13-2009, 12:18 AM
I'll take photos. We'll start a website with them and make a packet.

I'm feeling just a little sick to my stomach right now.

aadams73
06-13-2009, 12:18 AM
The right person would stick. And not physicallly having children does not mean that you will never be a mother.



QFT again.

Button
06-13-2009, 12:18 AM
I can't really add much more, as most of the others have already said what I was thinking. ;)

quickWit
06-13-2009, 12:19 AM
I'm feeling just a little sick to my stomach right now.

Really?

I'm feeling a lot of love in this thread... :)

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 12:19 AM
This is the beauty of AW. We close ranks when one of our own is hurting.

Well, you do. Me? I get busy with the cheese grater and screwdriver.

KTC
06-13-2009, 12:20 AM
Really?

I'm feeling a lot of love in this thread... :)

Oh...I feel the love. It's the other stuff I feel that's making me crawl up inside myself and cry like a Girl Guide.

quickWit
06-13-2009, 12:21 AM
Oh...I feel the love. It's the other stuff I feel that's making me crawl up inside myself and cry like a Girl Guide.

Yeah, I think Scarlet has that effect on a lot of guys.

Seaclusion
06-13-2009, 12:21 AM
I'm feeling just a little sick to my stomach right now.


QFT. This thread is degenerating rapidly.

Richard

sassandgroove
06-13-2009, 12:34 AM
I'll just say I agree wtih SP and Stew and Stormie and wannawrite etc. HUGS

aadams73
06-13-2009, 12:37 AM
Yup, hugs all around. I like hugs. And honestly, there are some GREAT guys around who will love you no matter what. Great guys are in the majority, I've found.

Silver King
06-13-2009, 01:34 AM
I have two children. Can have no more. Was with a guy for over a year. Got engaged. He KNEW I could not have any more children from the very beginning. We fell in love, started planning the wedding...

...and he dumps me. Says he needs to have his own children. Being a father to mine is not enough for him. (bear in mind, he has been raising them as his own for nearly two years, at this point, and they love him fiercely. Plus, as I said, he knew all of this going in)

So...the point?

He was a jerk. Your guy was a jerk...
Maybe neither one was a jerk and simply realized that having his own biological children meant more to him than the relationship he was involved in at the time.

And how come when guys don't toe the line around here, we start talking about cutting off their cocks and other means of castrating them? I know it's meant in jest, but how would our female members feel if some of the males described slicing off their breasts or shoving butcher knives inside of their vaginas?

Think about that before you consider describing, even as a joke, maiming another human being.

benbradley
06-13-2009, 01:40 AM
This is the beauty of AW. We close ranks when one of our own is hurting.

Well, you do. Me? I get busy with the cheese grater and screwdriver.
AW has its compassionate contingent, and its vigilante justice contingent. With that combo, no one messes with us.

Yup, hugs all around. I like hugs. And honestly, there are some GREAT guys around who will love you no matter what. Great guys are in the majority, I've found.
Hey, can I squeeze in here?
:e2grouphu:

Perks
06-13-2009, 01:40 AM
That's a very painful thing for him to have said, b77. I'm sorry you had to field that kind of rejection.

renaissancewoman
06-13-2009, 01:58 AM
Personally I feel that if a man loves you, he should love you, not your reproductive abilities but for some, children are a dealbreaker. That makes me think he was more into what you could give him, than you yourself.




This.

Dealing with infertility can be an enormous strain on a good relationship. However, there are wonderful men out there who will love YOU not your womb.

As a mom of both bio and adopted children I can tell you for certain there is no biological boundary for a person who is willing to open their heart to the possibilities.

I know there's a certain greiving that comes when you learn that you may not be able to do something that before may have been taken for granted and make sure you allow yourself time for that.

Peace,

rhymegirl
06-13-2009, 01:59 AM
Maybe neither one was a jerk and simply realized that having his own biological children meant more to him than the relationship he was involved in at the time.

Some guys are very blunt. My husband asked me on our second or third date (early on, that is) how many children I wanted to have. I guess I said one or two. (hard to remember now) He has since told me that if I had told him I did not want to have children, he would have stopped dating me.

Now, some might say that is rotten. But I'm not a man, so I can only try to step into his shoes to see what he was feeling. He wanted to have children. His own biological children, as SK, put it. I mean, let's face it, the longer you date someone, the more involved you get, and then breaking up is so much harder to do. If he knew at the outset that I did not want children (or could not have them), it would be much easier to break up at that point then further on down the road.

Ideally, you have to be with someone who wants the same things you want. I know a couple who got divorced over the having kids issue. He wanted them, she didn't. But they were married for 6 years.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 02:02 AM
That's a very painful thing for him to have said, b77. I'm sorry you had to field that kind of rejection.

I was totally up front with him from the beginning because at my age (almost 32) I know many who are at that stage where they are looking towards marriage, kids etc...
Later when I got that response I kinda went blank.....

WendyNYC
06-13-2009, 02:03 AM
Maybe neither one was a jerk and simply realized that having his own biological children meant more to him than the relationship he was involved in at the time.

And how come when guys don't toe the line around here, we start talking about cutting off their cocks and other means of castrating them? I know it's meant in jest, but how would our female members feel if some of the males described slicing off their breasts or shoving butcher knives inside of their vaginas?

Think about that before you consider describing, even as a joke, maiming another human being.

I was just joking and I did mean just a little snip to the vas deferens, but I get your point.

Aside from that, I *do* think these guys are jerks. Just like I'd think she was a jerk to dump him for low sperm count if the tables were turned.

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 02:05 AM
Taking SK's very valid point on board, here's my honest, non-violent opinion on it.

I agree with rhymegirl. The longer you're with someone the harder it is to break up. Now, my dad said a while back, "That's the sort of thing you discuss when you marry someone," and I burst out laughing. "Uh, no...that's the sort of thing you discuss long before you get married."

I've bemoaned by lack of serious relationships and while it's true I've never lasted long with one guy, I have had a few brief flings/relationships/call-'em-what-you-wills.

Around ten years ago I was at a dinner party and the conversation came round to children and marriage. I said I would marry a man for him, not his sperm count because I didn't want kids anyway, and any man who leaves you because of your inability/unwillingness to have children sees you as an incubator, not a woman.

I later found out one of the other guests was a man rendered infertile due to cancer treatment years before. He liked my ballsy attitude - and the fact I didn't want kids - and showed up at my door days later saying, "I couldn't wait to see you again."

So...some guys want kids. Some don't. I'm finding it increasingly difficult at my age (33) to find a single man who doesn't already have kids let alone a guy who doesn't want them, but...well, it's the sort of thing that's better dealt with early on, as rhymegirl says.

There have been a few times I've been so into someone that I nearly, nearly compromised but I know for a fact I would have ended up hating my own children and eventually my husband too for making me have them. So it's just as well those relationships never panned out.

I was just joking and I did mean just a little snip to the vas deferens, but I get your point.

Aside from that, I *do* think these guys are jerks. Just like I'd think she was a jerk to dump him for low sperm count if the tables were turned.

I wonder what the general opinion is of someone who would dump another person because they wanted kids, while the one doing the dumping didn't?

The reason I ask is a male (non-romantic) friend once asked me, "Couldn't you compromise on this?"

I asked him, "Sure, sure...now tell me - how do you have half a baby?"

TerzaRima
06-13-2009, 02:09 AM
I know there's a certain grieving that comes when you learn that you may not be able to do something that before may have been taken for granted

Yes. Brain, I can't have kids either, and I was kind of sad about it at first. I am so grateful now, frankly, for the way things have turned out. The child-shaped space in my life has let in some great things. It's been my experience that women aren't supposed to admit this, but I don't feel like I've missed out on anything by not having kids. I hope that, whatever your choices, you are able to find similar peace.

renaissancewoman
06-13-2009, 02:16 AM
Some guys are very blunt. My husband asked me on our second or third date (early on, that is) how many children I wanted to have. I guess I said one or two. (hard to remember now) He has since told me that if I had told him I did not want to have children, he would have stopped dating me.

Now, some might say that is rotten. But I'm not a man, so I can only try to step into his shoes to see what he was feeling. He wanted to have children. His own biological children, as SK, put it. I mean, let's face it, the longer you date someone, the more involved you get, and then breaking up is so much harder to do. If he knew at the outset that I did not want children (or could not have them), it would be much easier to break up at that point then further on down the road.

Ideally, you have to be with someone who wants the same things you want. I know a couple who got divorced over the having kids issue. He wanted them, she didn't. But they were married for 6 years.

Yeah wanting to have kids is something to be on the same page about and of course should be discussed if you're looking to marry.

I think what is especially jerky about this guy though, is he wants biological kids specifcally.

Hand to God, I've had people ask me "How could you love XXX as much as your other (bio) kids " and I am just floored by that.

If a guy that I'm dating tells me that no bio-kids is a deal breaker well actually him just saying that is a deal breaker for me. If you believe uncondtional love is tied to blood somehow, then how are you ever going to love me unconditionally?

aadams73
06-13-2009, 02:19 AM
Maybe neither one was a jerk and simply realized that having his own biological children meant more to him than the relationship he was involved in at the time.

And how come when guys don't toe the line around here, we start talking about cutting off their cocks and other means of castrating them? I know it's meant in jest, but how would our female members feel if some of the males described slicing off their breasts or shoving butcher knives inside of their vaginas?

Think about that before you consider describing, even as a joke, maiming another human being.

I have to openly agree with this as I did in a rep point. We've got some really fantastic guys here, truly, and I would hate for any of them to feel uncomfortable with us frisky women.

The reality is we're fiercely protective of our own, and I know we'd do the same for all you wonderful men should the need arise.

Now hug me, damn it. Hug me.

KTC
06-13-2009, 02:20 AM
I wonder what the general opinion is of someone who would dump another person because they wanted kids, while the one doing the dumping didn't?

The reason I ask is a male (non-romantic) friend once asked me, "Couldn't you compromise on this?"

I asked him, "Sure, sure...now tell me - how do you have half a baby?"

If one wants kids and the other doesn't...they should not be together. Period. If CAN'T is involved and the WANT is still there...then the one who CAN'T will have to find one who will want to have kids through adoption. If they want their own 'blood' children...then they should not be with the person who cannot have them. If they would be happy adopting...well, then...there's your match. You shouldn't stay in a relationship if the compromise is stronger than you are. It just makes sense.

TerzaRima
06-13-2009, 02:27 AM
I think what is especially jerky about this guy though, is he wants biological kids specifcally.


I dunno that it's jerky, I think it's just uninformed. You have adopted family members, so do I; we find comments like that incredibly offensive. But most people think this way. Look at the language people outside of the adoption community use: His own children. Your natural daughter. I want kids of my own.

Would you all judge women who undergo fertility treatment, like IVF, the same way as Brain's ex-BF? Because, in shelling out significant resources to become pregnant, they're indicating a very strong preference for biological offspring.

KTC
06-13-2009, 02:30 AM
I think what is especially jerky about this guy though, is he wants biological kids specifically.


Nope. NOT jerky at all. People have the right to decide what is best for them. Why would he be considered a jerk for wanting biological children. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this desire. Adoption is certainly an option...but there is nothing wrong with wanting to procreate and bring biological children into your life.

Silver King
06-13-2009, 02:32 AM
I have to openly agree with this as I did in a rep point. We've got some really fantastic guys here, truly, and I would hate for any of them to feel uncomfortable with us frisky women.

The reality is we're fiercely protective of our own, and I know we'd do the same for all you wonderful men should the need arise.

Now hug me, damn it. Hug me.
Thanks. I hugged you from afar, but hard enough so you can feel it in your heart.

It's no secret that I love this room and the folks who post here. Sometimes we just have to remind ourselves to think through our comments a little more. And it's easy to get caught up in the tone of the moment and give little thought to what we say. It happens to me at times, too.

Anyway, thank you for your understanding. :)

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 02:33 AM
Can I have a hug too, for saying Mr Penisfish was right and I feel my attitude was corrected in a very gentle and polite manner? :D

Silver King
06-13-2009, 02:40 AM
Can I have a hug too, for saying Mr Penisfish was right and I feel my attitude was corrected in a very gentle and polite manner? :D
:Hug2:
(Good thing no one can see what your hands are doing.) ;)

WendyNYC
06-13-2009, 02:42 AM
I dunno that it's jerky, I think it's just uninformed. You have adopted family members, so do I; we find comments like that incredibly offensive. But most people think this way. Look at the language people outside of the adoption community use: His own children. Your natural daughter. I want kids of my own.



Yes, I grew up hearing this constantly. I still do. "Have you ever met your real mother?" It's tedious.

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 02:43 AM
:Hug2:
(Good thing no one can see what your hands are doing.)

*snerk*

I love you guys.

*now feels sick*

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 02:46 AM
I totally agree that not all guys are nasties LOL... I do chat with some guys from here that are great :)

renaissancewoman
06-13-2009, 02:50 AM
I dunno that it's jerky, I think it's just uninformed. You have adopted family members, so do I; we find comments like that incredibly offensive. But most people think this way. Look at the language people outside of the adoption community use: His own children. Your natural daughter. I want kids of my own.



Got it. Point taken. :)

But for me, in what I am looking for in a husband, well I am not looking anymore, but you know...that would be a deal breaker for me.

You're right maybe he's just uninformed or there's a level of maturity or openess to love that is not at the same level of mine.

I shouldn't call names...As far as the other stuff re:infertility treatments etc... that is another topic and no, I don't necessarily think someone is a 'jerk' for pursuing those routes. But there are times when having a bio-child becomes such an obsession that the mythical child is de-valued and is treated like a commodity. Sorry that is little OT ....

Though, you know? That is kind of what I think when someone dismisses the idea of adoption out of hand, that they view children more as a commodity or right. And that seems to be consistent with the way he treated her. But I shouldn't have called the ex a 'jerk'.

WendyNYC
06-13-2009, 02:52 AM
If they want their own 'blood' children...then they should not be with the person who cannot have them. If they would be happy adopting...well, then...there's your match. You shouldn't stay in a relationship if the compromise is stronger than you are. It just makes sense.

I know a man who dumped his wife of ten years because they tried and tried to have kids, but she just couldn't carry to term. Ten years! He wasn't happy adopting, nor doing the surrogate thing, so he found himself another babymaker.

I mean...jeez.

raburrell
06-13-2009, 02:57 AM
FWIW, I went through 4 failed IVF cycles and 1 where-the-heck-did-that-come-from pregnancy that ended in miscarriage before my brain cottoned to the idea that adoption was where it's at. And I think most of the natural/unnatural 'trying' was to avoid disappointing my mother. Who at this point couldn't possibly love her grandson any more than she does.

At this point, the way I look at the stuff we tried before was just filling in time waiting for my son to be born.

Whatever you opt for in the future, I wish you the best, brainstorm :)

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 02:59 AM
I know a man who dumped his wife of ten years because they tried and tried to have kids, but she just couldn't carry to term. Ten years! He wasn't happy adopting, nor doing the surrogate thing, so he found himself another babymaker.

I mean...jeez.

10 years!:Jaw:

WendyNYC
06-13-2009, 03:10 AM
10 years!:Jaw:

I know. Crazy. Then he cheated on wife #2--while she was pregnant! A winner, for sure.


But that's the thing about anyone feeling strongly about wanting their own biological kids: sometimes life doesn't work out exactly as planned.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 03:13 AM
I know. Crazy. Then he cheated on wife #2--while she was pregnant! A winner, for sure.


But that's the thing about anyone feeling strongly about wanting their own biological kids: sometimes life doesn't work out exactly as planned.

Oh well, wife #1 is better off. I feel for #2. I hope she divorces him and he doesn't get a # 3 :tongue

KTC
06-13-2009, 03:14 AM
I know. Crazy. Then he cheated on wife #2--while she was pregnant! A winner, for sure.


But that's the thing about anyone feeling strongly about wanting their own biological kids: sometimes life doesn't work out exactly as planned.

Yeah...obviously this guy can't be held up as a template.

scarletpeaches
06-13-2009, 03:15 AM
But he can be held up as an asshat.

Silver King
06-13-2009, 03:15 AM
Here's an interesting spin I thought of that might add another layer to this discussion:

When my brother was married, his wife had one child who was in his early teens, and she could no longer conceive. This didn't seem to be a problem between them, though my brother confided in me a number of times that he regretted not having his "own" child. For a while they considered finding a surrogate mom, but (and this is no joke) he insisted on having intercourse with the woman to conceive the child. His wife didn't take a shine to that idea, and the matter was dropped.

Some years later, his step-son was married and now has two daughters. And you should see my brother, who has become the most doting grandpa you've ever encountered. Those girls mean the world to him, and I can sense they've completely filled whatever "childless" void he felt was missing from his life.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 03:17 AM
Here's an interesting spin I thought of that might add another layer to this discussion:

When my brother was married, his wife had one child who was in his early teens, and she could no longer conceive. This didn't seem to be a problem between them, though my brother confided in me a number of times that he regretted not having his "own" child. For a while they considered finding a surrogate mom, but (and this is no joke) he insisted on having intercourse with the woman to conceive the child. His wife didn't take a shine to that idea, and the matter was dropped.

Some years later, his step-son was married and now has two daughters. And you should see my brother, who has become the most doting grandpa you've ever encountered. Those girls mean the world to him, and I can sense they've completely filled whatever "childless" void he felt was missing from his life.

I'm glad they had a happy ending. Did he ever explain the intercourse thing?

KTC
06-13-2009, 03:18 AM
But he can be held up as an asshat.

Asshats are a dime a dozen. I'd put him in the meatpile category.

DL Hegel
06-13-2009, 03:25 AM
I cannot have children, I won't go into the medical reasons why but I will never be able to have them.
Some time ago a guy I was seeing for a bit broke up with me when he found this out stating that he wanted kids and that if i couldn't he didn't see a future with me. What do you make of that? I am asking for thoughts and opinions on the subject.


he is an idiot. You are an awesome lady and years from now he will wish he hadn't been such an idiot. Did i mention idiot?
BTW if I could have them I probably would and a part of me feels I may miss out. And I felt like crap when he said that to me.

Love you girl!!!!!!!!!!--- there are men out there with no woman and kids and there is adoption. Some of us are given challenges in life that are no where near fair but we have ways of making it work.

And if a person thinks that a child you love has to be from your blood only then they are missing a lot.



You are never given a dream without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it.

richard bach

Jersey Chick
06-13-2009, 03:29 AM
First, {{HUGS}} for the news - but of course, it doesn't mean, as others have said, that you can't be a mom. Not at all. :)

Now, my husband is adopted, - and when we decided to start a family, for a while it looked like it might not happen. So, we discussed adopting. He wanted to. I didn't. I can't really explain why, but I was honest with him and said that I just didn't feel entirely comfortable about it. He wasn't happy, but he understood and didn't think I was evil or selfish or a jerk or a terrible person. Maybe I would have changed my mind, but the matter was taken out of my hands when I finally did get pregnant. And I also don't like being pregnant. The end result is great, the journey kind of sucks, though.

There are men out there who will either be willing to adopt and/or will decide that they want you more. My aunt could never have children and she and my uncle have been married nearly 50 years (he gets a little wistful around the holidays and Father's Day - and they did discuss adopting but ultimately decided against it)

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 03:30 AM
Peoples opinions do indeed vary on adoption and I respect them totally. If I ever end up in a long term relationship perhaps it will come up.

Silver King
06-13-2009, 03:32 AM
I'm glad they had a happy ending. Did he ever explain the intercourse thing?
Well, you'd have to know my brother to understand his reasoning, but he felt strongly that the procedure should be done naturally, his seed deposited without medical intervention. I teased him that he just wanted to have an affair with his wife's blessing, but he was adamant that it had nothing to with the pleasurable aspects of intercourse. (Yeah, right.)

As a side note, he used to work for me, and I caught wind that he had propositioned an employee to carry his child. I fired him on the spot, and it took many years before we got over that rift.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 03:41 AM
Well, you'd have to know my brother to understand his reasoning, but he felt strongly that the procedure should be done naturally, his seed deposited without medical intervention. I teased him that he just wanted to have an affair with his wife's blessing, but he was adamant that it had nothing to with the pleasurable aspects of intercourse. (Yeah, right.)

As a side note, he used to work for me, and I caught wind that he had propositioned an employee to carry his child. I fired him on the spot, and it took many years before we got over that rift.

Oh wow!

Angie
06-13-2009, 03:46 AM
First of all, :Hug2: for the breakup. It's never fun, no matter the reason.

Second, I don't think a person is a "jerk" or automatically bad simply for wanting to have biological children. It's a very deep biological impulse that's hardwired into us as a species: mate, procreate, REPRODUCE. Some of us (me included) are wired a bit differently, but for the most part that's just how it is. The way he went about the breakup was not good, since you said you told him before you started dating that you couldn't have kids, but that doesn't make him a bad person because he wants kids. He should have been honest with you from the start like you were with him, but that's a whole other issue.

I think there's been a lot of villifying this guy over deep-seated feelings he has about wanting his "own" children. I just don't agree that there's something inherently wrong with that desire.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't want kids--biological, adopted, alien, or any other kind. I'm perfectly happy spoiling my niece rotten and sending her home, thankyouverymuch.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 03:50 AM
First of all, :Hug2: for the breakup. It's never fun, no matter the reason.

Second, I don't think a person is a "jerk" or automatically bad simply for wanting to have biological children. It's a very deep biological impulse that's hardwired into us as a species: mate, procreate, REPRODUCE. Some of us (me included) are wired a bit differently, but for the most part that's just how it is. The way he went about the breakup was not good, since you said you told him before you started dating that you couldn't have kids, but that doesn't make him a bad person because he wants kids. He should have been honest with you from the start like you were with him, but that's a whole other issue.

I think there's been a lot of villifying this guy over deep-seated feelings he has about wanting his "own" children. I just don't agree that there's something inherently wrong with that desire.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't want kids--biological, adopted, alien, or any other kind. I'm perfectly happy spoiling my niece rotten and sending her home, thankyouverymuch.

I have my cat that I dress up on occasion :tongue

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/jackie6977/2881317272_90f94c78c5.jpg

I'm kidding :roll:I do have a cat but that's not him and there is no way he would keep anything on for very long!:ROFL:

Angie
06-13-2009, 03:54 AM
:roll:

The cat in that picture looks about two seconds from shredding that outfit and anyone who gets in his way.

:roll:

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 03:57 AM
He/She gots the pissed off look that cats get.

Silver King
06-13-2009, 03:59 AM
Oh wow!
That was my exact reaction at the time. And this occurred well after his wife had put an end to the whole surrogate issue, so I don't know what he was planning on doing had he gone through with his plan. Maybe just show up with the baby one day and see how she'd react.

I felt awful for the woman he was pursuing, who was very young and sweet and felt pressured into complying. I wouldn't have blamed her one damn bit if she had sued my company for sexual harassment.

aadams73
06-13-2009, 04:00 AM
I bet the cat's owner died shortly afterward from massive fur inhalation.

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 04:02 AM
I bet the cat's owner died shortly afterward from massive fur inhalation.

Or massive claw trauma to the head!:D

Susie
06-13-2009, 04:04 AM
I'm so sorry, brain. The others gave you great advice. (((((((HUGS)))))).

Angie
06-13-2009, 04:05 AM
Or massive claw trauma to the head!:D

No, no...remember, this is a cat. I'm sure he bided his time, plotting something truly evil, and his owners never saw it coming. :D

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 04:12 AM
Evil cat agrees with you LOL

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/jackie6977/evil.jpg

Manix
06-13-2009, 04:15 AM
Hey! That's the gargoyle from my book!:tongue

Angie
06-13-2009, 04:21 AM
Evil cat agrees with you LOL

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/jackie6977/evil.jpg

:eek:

Demons are real!

:ROFL:

rhymegirl
06-13-2009, 04:24 AM
Nope. NOT jerky at all. People have the right to decide what is best for them. Why would he be considered a jerk for wanting biological children. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this desire. Adoption is certainly an option...but there is nothing wrong with wanting to procreate and bring biological children into your life.

I agree.

Button
06-13-2009, 05:27 AM
Silver King, the story's rather amazing. I'm glad also that they are happy now.

*hugs the lot of you* You all are so sweet. Even Peaches. *hides behind aadams after saying it*

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 07:11 AM
I agree there are some good people here :)

sassandgroove
06-13-2009, 08:34 AM
I am not quite sure how to add my thoughts here. My husband is adopted. When people ask him if he's ever met his real parents or wants to he says his real parents raised him. We talked about having kids and he brought up adoption. At first I wasn't sure. I like the idea of having a baby inside me for 9 months. But on further introspection I know that I would love an adopted baby as much. So I kind of get the desire for the biobaby while knowing adoption is a good idea.
I dunno that it's jerky, I think it's just uninformed. You have adopted family members, so do I; we find comments like that incredibly offensive. But most people think this way. Look at the language people outside of the adoption community use: His own children. Your natural daughter. I want kids of my own.

Would you all judge women who undergo fertility treatment, like IVF, the same way as Brain's ex-BF? Because, in shelling out significant resources to become pregnant, they're indicating a very strong preference for biological offspring.This.
I honestly think that many people who dismiss adoption have just not thought it through or opened their hearts to it and if they did would come to a different view.

I sometimes wonder about couples that go through hell to conceive. What is their motivation? I think many of them sort of get blinded by the process and lose sight of reality, that there are options like adoption. I don't know since I am not trying but I would think that if we tried for a while and it didn't work I would move to adoption rather quickly. There are so many children who need homes. My husband's cousin was adopted by his aunt and uncle at 14. He is every bit a part of the family and loved by everyone as if he had been adopted younger or born to them.



Nope. NOT jerky at all. People have the right to decide what is best for them. Why would he be considered a jerk for wanting biological children. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this desire. Adoption is certainly an option...but there is nothing wrong with wanting to procreate and bring biological children into your life.The thing about the situation is this; it is not that she doesnt' want children, it is that she can't have them. and was open about it. I know sometimes people don't realizehow they will feel about a situation until they are in it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. I am guessing he could have been more tactful. As I said about I think many people who put the desire for a bio child over a relationship like that may just be blind to how rewarding adoption is and haven't really examined it or themselves fully.

please note i said many people, not all.

On the wanting kids/not wanting kids compatibility thing. It has been said in this thread that if one wants and the other doesn't they don't belong together. I disagree. I think it is an important issue and I think Rhymegirls husband was smart to bring it up early. But there are so many other aspects to a relationship. I wanted kids. I told hubby before we were married. He agreed. Now he finds he isn't sure. So we're in a wait and see mode. And I am good with that because I love him. We've had very deep discussions about it and he realized some things after we were married. Like I said, sometimes you don't know how you will feel or react until the reality hits. And since I know he was sincere when he agreed before we were married and he is sincere now, I accept it. If he had lied to me that might be different. But there are so many aspects to a relationship you can just paint them all with a broad brush like that. To be honest, I am sort of leaning towards his way of thinking right now anyway.

aadams73
06-13-2009, 12:42 PM
Evil cat agrees with you LOL

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/jackie6977/evil.jpg

I think I dated him.

Inky
06-13-2009, 02:12 PM
58 billion men out there, and you found the one toad.

you DO realize you'll kiss a few toads before you meet your prince?

oodles of men don't want children; oodles of men would be just as happy adopting. flipside is, you do what YOU want, and don't leave the decision to what 'he' thinks. many women are adopting without a partner. it's not as frowned upon by the powers that be who make the decisions whether or not you can adopt--more like you mode of lifestyle and the bottom line of your W-2/W-4.


I spent many years being told I couldn't have children. I know first hand the rollercoaster of emotions you're experiencing.

It's not so much that a door is closed, but rather, you have doors that are open that many of us won't be able to pass through. Look for the opportunities that lie in store for you. Example: I would love to backpack through New Zealand. Not so easy with little kids, though there will always be that one family/individual who would make it work, for the rest of us, eh-eh.

Anyway, just my 2 Euros worth of madness...

NeuroFizz
06-13-2009, 05:19 PM
First of all, so sorry for the entire situation, brain. This is a very emotional issue, and one that can stay with a person.

Second, the guy was a jerk. Period. This doesn't mean that all people (yes, both men AND women) who use a desire for children or a desire to not have children as a deal breaker for a relationship are automatically jerks. The children thing is way more important than things like what kind of car does he drive and how does he dress, but as superficial as these latter things are, they have been used as dealbreakers as well.

Anyone who adopts and takes that child into their lives and hearts is a saint in my book. But that didn't figure into the equation for me in my desire to have children in my second marriage. You see, I am one of those superficial, obsessed JERKS who went with all of the tricks of modern medicine to produce my two youngest and lovely biological children. And I was the problem. I have an adult daughter who was "produced" normally, and my wife at the time had a hard post-partum time. I wanted more children, she strenuously resisted. In fact, she scared me in some of the ways she reacted to that baby--not that she was abusive or anything (she was a good Mom), but there were signs to me that a second child would not be a good thing at all. Still, I felt I was forced into the vasectomy, but I did it for her. The marriage lasted nearly twenty more years and I just put that part of it out of my mind. It was absolutely no factor in the eventual split. I can honestly say that.

When I met Mrs. Fizzy, she wanted children, and despite my age, it rekindled that in me as well (see my comments on biological children below). I had the vasectomy reversed, but it didn't work--the long time period between surgeries does not make for a good prognosis. We wanted to try the in vitro techniques and we had the money, so we did. Little Fizzy came on the third try. Fizzette on the first. Neither Mrs. Fizzy nor I were in the room when either child was conceived, which is a good joke but not something to get all weirded out about, nor is it any indication of civilization falling apart at the seams as some people suggest, paritcularly those on the deep side of some religions. Adoption was certainly in our plans, but only after we exhausted other possibilities. There was no lost perpspective. This didn't become more important as a challenge than it was as a biological miracle. I just don't understand why people like to come down on those who choose this avenue--those who tell us we should have just adopted. It's an abomination. You are extremely selfish people. You could have satisfied your child-needing obsessions by just adopting. And we would have, after we fed our gluttonous obsession.

As for the biological thing. I can only talk about my personal attitude and feelings. I love Mrs. Fizzy so dearly, one of the strongest drives for me was to produce children that were part me and part her. That is the ultimate bonding in terms of genetics (not in terms of love and acceptance and all other aspects of rearing children whether biological or not). That genetic mixing is a strong desire but not a necessity. It's just way cool in my mind, so I wanted to give it every try. But the love and devotion for a child really forms with time--it's not dependent on the biological or non-biological thing for me, so the ultimate love wouldn't be different. That doesn't take away from the innate desire to do it the biological way, even if it isn't the natural way.

I go with all of the jokes, like lab report instead of a birth certificate, because they are funny, and they are a sign of the times. But I get a little tired of taking crap for wanting biological children and going beyond normal protocol for trying for them. I am happy with our decision. We have two precious children. The physical and emotional hassles we had to go through to get them are well worth it. But had we gone the adoption route, we would have been every bit as much proud and loving parents. We just had that route one step lower on our priority list, selfish asshats that we are.

WendyNYC
06-13-2009, 05:52 PM
I go with all of the jokes, like lab report instead of a birth certificate, because they are funny, and they are a sign of the times. But I get a little tired of taking crap for wanting biological children and going beyond normal protocol for trying for them. I am happy with our decision. We have two precious children. The physical and emotional hassles we had to go through to get them are well worth it. But had we gone the adoption route, we would have been every bit as much proud and loving parents. We just had that route one step lower on our priority list, selfish asshats that we are.

Even as an adopted child, I do not begrudge anyone who uses modern medicine to become pregnant. Not at all. All feelings aside, adopting a child is hard. It takes years. From what I understand, it's much more difficult now than it was when I was a baby.

That was something you and Mrs. Fizz decided to do together, with support from one another. I don't know your wife, but I assume she wouldn't have left you if it didn't work out. That's what I find a little disturbing about this thread--that it's perfectly understandable to dump a woman because she's not a breeder. I don't know. That attitude seems like a throwback to another era. But people dump each other for all kinds of reasons, so...who knows.

IMO Brain dodged a bullet with this guy. What's going to happen if his future wife can't conceive? Or the baby is born with a handicap? Maybe he'll step up, maybe not.

sassandgroove
06-13-2009, 08:10 PM
Fizz I didn't mean people who use modern medicine to try and succeed rather quickly like you. I mean the people who try and try and try and try and take years and go through and emotional rollercoaster of failure but never think of adoption.

Calla Lily
06-13-2009, 08:19 PM
:Hug2:

brainstorm77
06-13-2009, 09:04 PM
First of all, so sorry for the entire situation, brain. This is a very emotional issue, and one that can stay with a person.

Second, the guy was a jerk. Period. This doesn't mean that all people (yes, both men AND women) who use a desire for children or a desire to not have children as a deal breaker for a relationship are automatically jerks. The children thing is way more important than things like what kind of car does he drive and how does he dress, but as superficial as these latter things are, they have been used as dealbreakers as well.

Anyone who adopts and takes that child into their lives and hearts is a saint in my book. But that didn't figure into the equation for me in my desire to have children in my second marriage. You see, I am one of those superficial, obsessed JERKS who went with all of the tricks of modern medicine to produce my two youngest and lovely biological children. And I was the problem. I have an adult daughter who was "produced" normally, and my wife at the time had a hard post-partum time. I wanted more children, she strenuously resisted. In fact, she scared me in some of the ways she reacted to that baby--not that she was abusive or anything (she was a good Mom), but there were signs to me that a second child would not be a good thing at all. Still, I felt I was forced into the vasectomy, but I did it for her. The marriage lasted nearly twenty more years and I just put that part of it out of my mind. It was absolutely no factor in the eventual split. I can honestly say that.

When I met Mrs. Fizzy, she wanted children, and despite my age, it rekindled that in me as well (see my comments on biological children below). I had the vasectomy reversed, but it didn't work--the long time period between surgeries does not make for a good prognosis. We wanted to try the in vitro techniques and we had the money, so we did. Little Fizzy came on the third try. Fizzette on the first. Neither Mrs. Fizzy nor I were in the room when either child was conceived, which is a good joke but not something to get all weirded out about, nor is it any indication of civilization falling apart at the seams as some people suggest, paritcularly those on the deep side of some religions. Adoption was certainly in our plans, but only after we exhausted other possibilities. There was no lost perpspective. This didn't become more important as a challenge than it was as a biological miracle. I just don't understand why people like to come down on those who choose this avenue--those who tell us we should have just adopted. It's an abomination. You are extremely selfish people. You could have satisfied your child-needing obsessions by just adopting. And we would have, after we fed our gluttonous obsession.

As for the biological thing. I can only talk about my personal attitude and feelings. I love Mrs. Fizzy so dearly, one of the strongest drives for me was to produce children that were part me and part her. That is the ultimate bonding in terms of genetics (not in terms of love and acceptance and all other aspects of rearing children whether biological or not). That genetic mixing is a strong desire but not a necessity. It's just way cool in my mind, so I wanted to give it every try. But the love and devotion for a child really forms with time--it's not dependent on the biological or non-biological thing for me, so the ultimate love wouldn't be different. That doesn't take away from the innate desire to do it the biological way, even if it isn't the natural way.

I go with all of the jokes, like lab report instead of a birth certificate, because they are funny, and they are a sign of the times. But I get a little tired of taking crap for wanting biological children and going beyond normal protocol for trying for them. I am happy with our decision. We have two precious children. The physical and emotional hassles we had to go through to get them are well worth it. But had we gone the adoption route, we would have been every bit as much proud and loving parents. We just had that route one step lower on our priority list, selfish asshats that we are.

Thanks for sharing that highly personal info. I agree totally and I can sort of see the guys reasons for breaking it off for wanting kids.
And I know not all guys are jerks. I've just had bad luck when it comes to dating.

brainstorm77
06-14-2009, 06:31 PM
I just wanted to say thanks to those who have shown great support either in this thread, through PM's or rep's. It's greatly appreciated and it's nice to know good people still exist in this world. :) Thanks again.