Question about sample pages in query

justAnotherWriter

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If an agent's guidelines specify that you should include sample pages or chapters along with your query, and the agent then goes on to request a full or a bigger partial, is that a sure bet that they read your sample pages/chapters? All of them?
 

suki

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If an agent's guidelines specify that you should include sample pages or chapters along with your query, and the agent then goes on to request a full or a bigger partial, is that a sure bet that they read your sample pages/chapters? All of them?

Not necessarily. The agent might have been hooked after a few paragraphs and asked for more. I think it's more likely that the agent read whatever pages you sent, but it's possible not.

But I guess I'm wondering why you asked the question? Seems like a lot of work for curiosity. Maybe more info and a more specific question might help answer what you're wondering...

~suki
 

justAnotherWriter

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But I guess I'm wondering why you asked the question? Seems like a lot of work for curiosity. Maybe more info and a more specific question might help answer what you're wondering...

~suki

Well, it's more than just simple curiosity. I just started querying a project and I got a request for a full manuscript from a query that included the first five pages.

I have a long wait ahead of me, and like many writers I tend to be a bit on the paranoid, obsessive side, so if I can believe that the agent read the sample pages and liked the writing/voice/style, then I can relax a bit.
 

firedrake

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IMO, don't obsess over it.

At least you've been fortunate enough to receive a request for a full...enjoy the moment.
 

suki

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Well, it's more than just simple curiosity. I just started querying a project and I got a request for a full manuscript from a query that included the first five pages.

I have a long wait ahead of me, and like many writers I tend to be a bit on the paranoid, obsessive side, so if I can believe that the agent read the sample pages and liked the writing/voice/style, then I can relax a bit.

LOL. Rest assured I'm not laughing at you, I'm just laughing near you - it's good natured, I promise.

First, congratulations on the full.

It's highly unlikley the agent would have asked for a full if something didn't appeal, and I would assume he/she read enough of the pages to know that he/she wanted to read more. So, implicite in that is he/she liked the writing/voice/style enough to ask for a full, and not even say a partial.

The waiting is tough, and I won't even say relax, but hang in there.

~suki
 

ORION

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No he probably hated the whole thing. That's why he asked for the full. To torture himself and read something he wasn't compelled to read.
um....so...
What do YOU think?
 

justAnotherWriter

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No he probably hated the whole thing. That's why he asked for the full. To torture himself and read something he wasn't compelled to read.
um....so...
What do YOU think?

There is no need for a sarcastic reply.

I think there are several possibilities. One is that she looked at the query, liked it, glanced briefly at the sample pages just to makre sure that there was nothing glaring, and went ahead and requested more. Some agents request materials based on queries alone.

Another is that she liked the query enough to not bother with sample pages. I don't know if agents do that. I'm sure some might.

Yet a third is that she read one of the five sample pages.

My question was fairly specific...what is the likelyhood that an agent who asks for sample pages reads ALL of them, not some of them, not does she skim them, but does he/she actually READ all of them before requesting more.
 

firedrake

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Does it really matter?

There was obviously something that you submitted that struck a chord with the agent. As I said before, the fact that you have received a request for a full is a good thing. You should congratulate yourself on a job well done.
 

justAnotherWriter

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Does it matter? Yes, I think it does.

A couple of months ago an agent requested a full after reading a query that included three sample chapters (for a different novel). In the request, the agent pointed out that she liked my writing and voice. I thought...great! She likes my writing, she's read 3 chapters, I can't go wrong!

Then she rejected me with feedback, and said that she didn't have any complaints about the novel, but that an aspect of it turned her off. I won't go into details, but it's akin to requesting a vampire story and then turning it down becuase there are people with sharp teeth in it(the novel had nothing to do with vampires, it's just an example).

The point is, the aspect of the novel that turned her off was clear and present in the first three chapters (which came with the query). So either she was trying to spare my feelings in her feedback (which I seriously doubt) or she didn't read all of the first three chapters before requesting the full manuscript, or didn't read them carefully enough (maybe just skimmed them). I don't blame her at all, she was going with her tastes, which is all we can expect anyone to do, and she certainly has no obligation to read the sample chapters before requesting anything. It was enough, however, to get me to want to ask the question.
 
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scope

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Does it really matter?

There was obviously something that you submitted that struck a chord with the agent. As I said before, the fact that you have received a request for a full is a good thing. You should congratulate yourself on a job well done.


DITTO.
 

Eric San Juan

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The point is, the aspect of the novel that turned her off was clear and present in the first three chapters (which came with the query).
It's entirely possible the agent liked other aspects of about your sample chapters well enough to hope that in the full they would overpower the stuff they didn't like. They got the full. It didn't work out that way. So they passed.

Ultimately, firedrake is right. It doesn't matter. All you're going to do is stress yourself out over a matter entirely out of your hands.
 

ORION

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HEY I DONT DO SARCASM...It was NOT nasty! You guys know I don't do things that way.
The thing is...
My agent reads the sample pages. She asks for what she likes reading.
I suspect that most agents read a query until they get turned off.
You want us (who do not know which agent you submitted to) to predict whether the agent:
1. Loved the premise but thought the writing was so-so
2. Loved the writing but thought the premise was so-so
3. Loved the writing and the premise
And my point is we can't tell you that. We can only guess that there was something about your submission that the agent liked.
 

justAnotherWriter

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to understand the process as much as possible. Information such as what agents typically do with sample pages is useful.

My reason for asking the question, in this particular instance, is irrelevant. This is something I've wanted to know long before I was in this situation.
 

firedrake

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My guess is that there's no hard and fast rules for what agents do. Each one has their own way of operating. I don't think there's a generic handbook that agents use. They work in a way that suits them. You will just have to be patient and try not to fret.

It really isn't worth getting in a tizz over. Just try and relax, wait and see what feedback you get. If it is the same as the feedback you mentioned earlier, then you can think about what needs to be done.

As I said before and others here have agreed with me, you're one of the lucky few who has received a full request. Try and be pleased with that.
 

jclarkdawe

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I probably shouldn't get involved in this.

No he probably hated the whole thing. That's why he asked for the full. To torture himself and read something he wasn't compelled to read.
um....so...
What do YOU think?

There is no need for a sarcastic reply.

Patricia doesn't know how to do sarcastic. Now if it had been me, it probably would have been, but Patricia's a warm and fuzzy person who has other people's best interests at heart. (Notice the sarcasm -- I don't like warm and fuzzy people -- I think they have a screw or two loose.) See, I don't care about making people feel better. I'm interested in helping people solve their problems and my entertainment. Patricia does care about people.

What Patricia was trying to do was force you out of the box your thinking is in. You're asking about specific work habits of individuals and there's no way anyone can answer your question. Even if an agent were to answer your question, there's no way to tell whether other agents work the same way.

My personal habits are sometimes I want more information after the first sentence of something, sometimes I want to read more. Answer is it depends. Think about people's book buying habits. A lot of people I know will sometimes decide to buy based solely on the cover. Sometimes the same people need to read the end flap as well. Sometimes the same people decide to read the first five pages to make the decision. Probably the closer to the line of accept/reject, probably the more that's read for the deciding to buy. It wouldn't surprise me if you do the same thing.

I think there are several possibilities. One is that she looked at the query, liked it, glanced briefly at the sample pages just to makre sure that there was nothing glaring, and went ahead and requested more. Some agents request materials based on queries alone. A lot of agents do. Some agents don't. Depends upon an agent's decision making model.

Another is that she liked the query enough to not bother with sample pages. I don't know if agents do that. I'm sure some might. I'm sure some agents do. And I imagine that a lot of agents don't.

Yet a third is that she read one of the five sample pages. Absolutely a possibility.

My question was fairly specific...what is the likelyhood that an agent who asks for sample pages reads ALL of them, not some of them, not does she skim them, but does he/she actually READ all of them before requesting more. And from your response to Patricia's sarcasm, you answered the question. Which is that there's no way to answer it. Back in high school you had teachers who'd tell you there was a right and a wrong answer. Real world doesn't operate that way. Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer and sometimes we just can't tell what the right or wrong answer is.

justAnotherWriter said:
I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to understand the process as much as possible. Information such as what agents typically do with sample pages is useful. No, it isn't useful. It's micro-managing. Assume that an agent is going to read them. Make them the best possible. Beyond that and you have no control, so move on.

I agree understanding the process is useful, but you have to accept that there are limits on it. Even agents who describe in detail what they do are not telling you what other agents do.

My reason for asking the question, in this particular instance, is irrelevant. This is something I've wanted to know long before I was in this situation. Patricia wasn't bothered about your question or assuming it to be stupid. She was trying to get you to think about over-obsessing and unanswerable questions.

Patricia wasn't using sarcasm and her word choice was to obtain a specific result -- exactly what a good writer should do.

Over-obsessing produces many bad results, including hyper-sensitivity. Relax about all of this. When you've had a couple of fulls rejected, then you can start trying to figure out what's wrong. One rejected full is somewhere close to meaningless. There's absolutely nothing you can tell that has any sort of statistical meaning.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

Danthia

An agent requests more when they like what they've read. If they didn't want to read more, they wouldn't have asked for more. They ask for sample pages in a query to save them time. If the query sounds good, they look at the pages. If the first page doesn't hook them, they don't read any further. If the first page grabs them, they read the second, and so on. If the idea gets them really excited, and the writing blows them away, they might not read the full sample if it's a lot, but they're so jazzed about seeing more they don't wait to ask for it.

So, it's possible that the first few pages are so great and then the book takes a nosedive on page seven, and if they'd read the full chapter and saw that they never would have asked for more, but there's enough to stress over in this business that stressing over a request is just killing what little joy you get until you sell. I'd avoid this is you can :)
 

Bufty

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For goodness sake, JAW - that's like asking/worrying if employers read all the way through CV's before arranging to interview an applicant. Who knows?

It's really not worth the worrying over -and no matter what the answer is or may be it's not going to have any effect on any future submissions.

The objective is to have the manuscript requested. Whether it is then rejected or not is a totally separate matter.

Congratulations for getting through at least the first hurdle. :Hug2:




Thank you, suki and Danthia, for answering the question.
 
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