When Writing Makes Your Hobbies Awkward

AZ_Dawn · May 28, 2009

As I've said elsewhere, one of my hobbies is pixel dolls. It's fun to make them, and equally fun to look at dolls others have made. The problem is there's an awful lot of fanart dolls out there. Nobody's making a profit off of it, but the fact remains that most the fan dolls are from copyrighted fandoms. Personally, I'd rather pick my fights after I get published. I mean, what's the point in going after non-profit copyright infringement, especially since unlike trademark, I don't lose my copyright if I don't go after every little offense. Save the smackdowns for the Lady Sybella's of the world. Right?

However, Gillhoughly pointed out in the Russet Noon threads that I might not have that option.

Ooh boy, that'll be awkward! Imagine me at the dolling forum and coming across the thread title John and Millie. No biggie, just don't click and I'll never have know if it's my John and Millie or not. I scroll down a bit and see John and Jacques: yaoi alert! Well, I don't have any gay characters, so this is either a different John and Jacques or a parody (parodies don't break the copyright laws). Move along, then.

Now comes a fairly innocuous title: Pirate Couple. Sounds fun. *click* Auuuggh, it's John and Millie! Oh man, I feel like a rat; So-and-so is such a nice kid! Wait, calm down, Dawn. Millie wouldn't kiss John on a bet and John would be afraid her brother would beat the crap out him for attempting to "seduce" her. So this must be parody. Yes, a parody! I'm off the hook! Woohoo! Just don't read the accompanying text, just in case.

Sooner or later, though, I'm going to hit a doll that I can't find an excuse for (John by himself with no possible element of parody, maybe). And that's just the forums; I might not get that much warning at a regular website or DeviantArt!

Can't imagine how writing could make my loom knitting hobby awkward, unless someone managed to knit my characters, but you never know.

Of course, my work is still in progress, so it'll be a long while before I have to worry about any of this, at least on a serious scale. How about you guys? Did writing make any of your hobbies awkward?

Matera the Mad · May 28, 2009

Sometimes you just have to switch hobbies, I guess. Grow orchids, try your hand at origami, collect obsolete software...crossword puzzles?

icerose · May 28, 2009

Matera the Mad said:
Sometimes you just have to switch hobbies, I guess. Grow orchids, try your hand at origami, collect obsolete software...crossword puzzles?

I must be tired Matera, I was reading along "Grow orchids, try your hand at (different O word)

well that would be a fun hobby...

Moving right along. :gone:

Pagey's_Girl · May 29, 2009

I make ragdolls, but they're of my own characters. Haven't tried anyone else's characters yet. (Not because I'm not tempted, but because I can't figure out for the life of me how to do the hair...)

ETA - and the other "O" sounds more fun than origami.

AZ_Dawn · May 29, 2009

You guys!

Matera the Mad said:
Sometimes you just have to switch hobbies, I guess.

Hopefully it won't come down to that, but I'd certainly have to avoid the fanart sections like the plague. I have backup hobbies if it does come down to that, though.

Pagey's_Girl said:
I make ragdolls, but they're of my own characters. Haven't tried anyone else's characters yet. (Not because I'm not tempted, but because I can't figure out for the life of me how to do the hair...)

Knowing my luck, if I tried to make someone else's character and put it online, I'd get a deluge of Cease and Desist letters, with a few DMCA notices thrown in for good measure. :tongue

DeleyanLee · May 29, 2009

AZ_Dawn said:
As I've said elsewhere, one of my hobbies is pixel dolls. It's fun to make them, and equally fun to look at dolls others have made. The problem is there's an awful lot of fanart dolls out there. Nobody's making a profit off of it, but the fact remains that most the fan dolls are from copyrighted fandoms. Personally, I'd rather pick my fights after I get published. I mean, what's the point in going after non-profit copyright infringement, especially since unlike trademark, I don't lose my copyright if I don't go after every little offense.

All right, color me confused. I thought that a book's copyright covered the WORDS in the book. Why would someone making a picture of one of your characters be infringing on the copyright covering your words?

And I think you've got it backwards--you've got to steadfastly protect your trademark from being infringed on or you lose it, I believe literally lose the right anymore. I've never heard of an author losing their copyright after they were plagerized.

I guess it's been a long day.

AZ_Dawn · Jun 1, 2009

DeleyanLee said:
All right, color me confused. I thought that a book's copyright covered the WORDS in the book. Why would someone making a picture of one of your characters be infringing on the copyright covering your words?

I had to think about this one for a while. A picture of a copyrighted story character would be a derivative work, and without permission, it's technically infringement. To be sure, if I were to just give a general description like John's red-haired, pockmarked and short, it would be a bit difficult to prove a case, unless they outright say "This is John from Dawn's stories". Hey, I could be mistaken; those might be freckles and not pockmarks. However, what if I had a scene where John had to disguise himself as a Dominican nun, but got caught because he was wearing men's shoes? If I came across an obviously male doll with red hair and pockmarks, and he was wearing a Dominican nun's habit and men's shoes, I'd have to tell my publisher at least.

And I think you've got it backwards--you've got to steadfastly protect your trademark from being infringed on or you lose it, I believe literally lose the right anymore.

That's what I said here:

Me said:
I mean, what's the point in going after non-profit copyright infringement, especially since unlike trademark, I don't lose my copyright if I don't go after every little offense.

Maybe the confusion came with sentence and link?

However, Gillhoughly pointed out in the Russet Noon threads that I might not have that option.

I wasn't saying I was mistaken about copyright law; I was saying that with a must-do-something-about-it-or-your-publisher-sues-you clause in a contract I wouldn't have a lot of choice in the matter. Sorry for not being clearer.

P.S. No, nobody's dressing up as a nun in my stories; it's just hypothetical situation.

Nivarion · Jun 1, 2009

defending your copyright doesn't have to be through the publisher, or with a lawyer involved. You can just send them an email explaining why you have to have it taken down.

You seem like a nice guy, send em an autographed book if they take it down and they will be a permanent fan forever.

AZ_Dawn · Jun 3, 2009

Nivarion said:
defending your copyright doesn't have to be through the publisher, or with a lawyer involved. You can just send them an email explaining why you have to have it taken down.

Make the publisher the "bad guy". Sounds good to me.

You seem like a nice guy, send em an autographed book if they take it down and they will be a permanent fan forever.

You sure that wouldn't increase infringement?

:

She gave you a take-down notice and a free copy of her book? Sweet! I'm putting my John/Jacques fic on my site now!

NeuroFizz · Jun 3, 2009

icerose said:
I must be tired Matera, I was reading along "Grow orchids, try your hand at (different O word) well that would be a fun hobby...

Moving right along.

Look up the origin of the word "orchid" for a good connection with your mis-read. Although it may be your (a) man who would find that hobby great fun...

jfreedan · Jun 3, 2009

AZ_Dawn said:
As I've said elsewhere, one of my hobbies is pixel dolls. It's fun to make them, and equally fun to look at dolls others have made. The problem is there's an awful lot of fanart dolls out there. Nobody's making a profit off of it, but the fact remains that most the fan dolls are from copyrighted fandoms.....

However, Gillhoughly pointed out in the Russet Noon threads that I might not have that option.

Drawing fan artwork is not copyright infringement.

You do not lose your copyright if you don't sue everyone on the planet. That's nonsense that greedy lawyers want their clients to believe because they make money that way.

You only have to act if someone is actually copyright infringing, and that pretty much means they are making money off the sale of the work that you would be losing out on. You as the author can make the judgment that something falls under fair use and decide not to sue. That doesn't make you lose rights, especially if no money is being made at all.

If you cannot argue the value of your rights has diminished as a result of fan art, you don't have a case.

I mean, are you interested in selling officially licensed pixel dolls? Is there any money in this for you? Is someone making pixel dolls and freely distributing them on the internet causing the value of your rights to diminish?

Let me give you a good example: Blizzard has sent cease and desist letters to people who have Cafepress shops selling World of Warcraft inspired merchandise without a license. They started doing this after the economy went south, logically because they want people to buy their officially licensed merchandise instead of the unofficial stuff. The only way to divert sales to their merchandise is to take the other merchandise off the market.

They cannot, however, stop anyone from creating unofficial strategy guides because that falls under free use clause (reference and educational material), and they would be hard pressed to win that kind of case.

Using Blizzard as an example again, they tried sending cease and desist letters to someone selling a guide on how to farm gold. They also sent these notices to eBay to force them to suspend his account. The guy consulted a lawyer and then filed a lawsuit against Blizzard and pointed out they had no right to do this. When Blizzard lawyers ran into the reality they wouldn't win the case, they settled with him and he is allowed to continue selling his unlicensed and unauthorized strategy guide.

And as for the "if you don't sue, you lose your rights" nonsense--- even if you don't act, that doesn't mean you lose all your rights.

It only means that the specific person or company you want to sue can use that you didn't sue them for x number of years as a defense in their specific case.

It doesn't apply to every single instance of infringement, only that specific case.

Tolkien's estate lost one of these cases against a travel agency that used the word "Hobbit" in their company name and website for several years. That didn't mean they lost the rights to The Lord of the Rings, it only meant they couldn't successfully sue this one specific company for using the word "hobbit".

If anything, fan art increases the value of your rights. If you want to be successful in anything today, you need customers to help you market your business. Fans who plaster fan art all over the web help introduce new people to your work. Suing your fans for being fans is not a good idea. That leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the very people you want to have a good relationship with. Your publisher might publish your book, but the fans are the ones who are buying it.

Don't block fan art from happening. If anything, run fan art contests on your website and reward people with free books. It'll get you more press and you might sell more books.

When Writing Makes Your Hobbies Awkward

AZ_Dawn

AW Addict

Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint

icerose

Lost in School Work

Pagey's_Girl

Still plays with dolls

AZ_Dawn

AW Addict

DeleyanLee

Writing Anarchist

AZ_Dawn

AW Addict

Nivarion

Brony level >9000

AZ_Dawn

AW Addict

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

jfreedan