Publishing a sequel to an existing series

My two cents (and I'm not a lawyer or expert).

You cannot get sued for the existence of the work if it's in a drawer. You would be lucky not to get sued if you self-published and charged money for it. You might get sued if you posted or distributed it without charging for it (it woudl be like fanfiction - they could go after you but there's no way of telling if they'd bother).

You (or an agent - if one would take on the project even though you don't have permission) would probably need to approach whoever holds the rights to the Asimov literary properties. Not sure how you would go about this.

Like I said, though, not a lawyer.

You cannot legally self-publish this book.

This book can only be published with approval from the estate, and such estates simply do not grant approvals to fans. They seek out established authors if and when they want to do work in one of these properties. You do not approach them, they approach you.

Dennis McKiernan's "The Silver Call" was initially written as a sequel to "The Lord of the Rings". He had, of course, absolutely no chance of ever publishing that. Ever. Even his publisher, Doubleday, could not secure the rights. The whole story was rewritten so as not to be a LotR sequel.

A traditional publisher is not going to touch this. Even if it's dead brilliant, chances are they won't even look at it unless you're a well-established author.

You cannot legally self-publish this book. If you were to self-publish this and the Asimov estate were to catch wind, you would hear from their lawyers rather quickly.

If you want people to read it, your best bet is to post it to a website for free. Some estates are aggressive even about squashing fan fiction, but that's very rare and not something I'd worry about.

The estate owns the rights to the works; hence any monies you get from the the estate's properties belongs to the estate by law. In other words, don't even try selling it--it's theft.

The estate has the right to decide how prequels and the like are handled, and it does this in the way it thinks will be of most benefit to the estate. For example, they wouldn't want a hundred books to be written because they'd compete with each other and they'd all end up losing money. They don't want writers deciding for themselves what happens in a sequel, because that restricts the possibilities for series, has the potential to annoy fans whose favorite characters have died, and so on. So it's exceedingly unlikely that the estate will want anything to do with your book, no matter how brilliant it may be.

Finally, there's the fan fiction, give it away option. Although the estate could legally come after you for this, most publishers have given tacit approval to fan fiction because they know that their fan writers are also their book buyers.

There's plenty of Foundation fan fiction out there, so you probably won't have any trouble publishing it and giving it away.

ChristineR said:

Finally, there's the fan fiction, give it away option. Although the estate could legally come after you for this, most publishers have given tacit approval to fan fiction because they know that their fan writers are also their book buyers.

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NO.

"Give it away" isn't an option, and no publisher gives any type of approval to fanfiction. Period.

In most cases they ignore fan fiction. However, if they're made aware of it they have to (at the very least) issue cease and desist on it because allowing it implies they've given away certain rights to the material for free. The author (or their estate if the copyright is still in effect) have to defend the rights to their work or else they can get sued by their publisher, or run the risk of implied rights.

If you've written an "unauthorized" sequel, you've written a useless sequel. Scrub the actual author's material out of it, make it an original work, and try to sell it as your own.

Omega said:

Oh, and BTW, it's not "theft" to violate trademarks. Theft, by definition, requires removing property from its owner. It's illegal, but it's not theft. Just one of my pet peeves.

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You are removing property. One dollar that goes to the person infringing trademark as opposed the actual author is a dollar stolen. That's theft.

Omega said:

I mean, it's got to be a trademark issue, right? What are we worried about being trademarked? Character names and places?

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No, it's a copyright issue. Novels are not trademarked, they are copyrighted. The characters, places, and storylines of those books belong to the Asimov estate and cannot be duplicated or used without permission.

ChaosTitan said:

No, it's a copyright issue. Novels are not trademarked, they are copyrighted. The characters, places, and storylines of those books belong to the Asimov estate and cannot be duplicated or used without permission.

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It's also possible that some characters or names have been trademarked as well, in which case it's a double whammy offense.

From what I understand, the copyright extends to the entire work, ie, everything in the book (which includes the characters). I own the copyright to my book. So no one except me can write original material about my characters, in the city I invented, without my permission. To do so violates my copyright.

There's recently locked thread up in the Novel Writing forum about Tolkien and orcs, and it goes fairly in-depth about trademarks and characters. It's worth looking for.

Omega said:

Or maybe a miracle will happen and we'll see sane copyright terms in my lifetime.

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This is actually pretty insulting. Because you want to have free rein to play with someone else's toys you feel the copyright terms are unfair? Allowing the copyright to end after the person (and conceivably their grandchildren) are out of the picture is more than fair.

You need to go read the thread about Lady Sybilla and her Twilight continuation.

Cyia said:

This is actually pretty insulting

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I don't see it as insulting. It's a legitimate philosophical stance. Many people feel that modern copyright laws have strayed too far from the purpose for which they were created. I happen to be one of them.

To me, the very notion of copyright not expiring until someone's grandchildren pass away is absolutely outlandish. Yes, and that means my work, too. There ought not be anything insulting about having that opinion.

Cyia said:

This is actually pretty insulting. Because you want to have free rein to play with someone else's toys you feel the copyright terms are unfair? Allowing the copyright to end after the person (and conceivably their grandchildren) are out of the picture is more than fair.

You need to go read the thread about Lady Sybilla and her Twilight continuation.

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Cyia - I am in agreement with you. If my tales become published, I do not want any John Doe with a pen to feel he is entitled to take my creations and do with them what he will. Personally, I feel that copyright should be forever. These are my ideas - they shouldn't come with an expiration date.

If you want to be published, craft your own story with your own characters. IMNSHO

dgrintalis said:

Personally, I feel that copyright should be forever. These are my ideas - they shouldn't come with an expiration date.

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Were copyright forever, it's highly unlikely that we'd today be enjoying all that the Greek and Roman myths have given us, along with the hundreds of wonderful works of art -- literature, film, music and more -- that were spawn by them.

The hundreds of Dracula stories and the thousands of vampire tales spawned from the original.

The countless adaptations and re-imaginings and re-workings of Shakespeare.

And so on. The examples are countless.

Hundreds of classics works, priceless products of the human drive to create, would be lost to time thanks to families who did not know what to do with what they inherited or a corporation who did not see a way to monetize their holding. Pieces of art, legendary characters, people, places.

Lost.

Gone forever.

Because we decided that at no point should works pass into the public domain.

This would be a tremendous disservice to society as a whole, wouldn't you say?

Point taken.

Eric San Juan said:

Were copyright forever, it's highly unlikely that we'd today be enjoying all that the Greek and Roman myths have given us, along with the hundreds of wonderful works of art -- literature, film, music and more -- that were spawn by them.

The hundreds of Dracula stories and the thousands of vampire tales spawned from the original.

The countless adaptations and re-imaginings and re-workings of Shakespeare.

And so on. The examples are countless.

Hundreds of classics works, priceless products of the human drive to create, would be lost to time thanks to families who did not know what to do with what they inherited or a corporation who did not see a way to monetize their holding. Pieces of art, legendary characters, people, places.

Lost.

Gone forever.

Because we decided that at no point should works pass into the public domain.

This would be a tremendous disservice to society as a whole, wouldn't you say?

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Omega said:

That implies my ideas are not of value because they involve pre-existing characters in a new situation.

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I did not say that your ideas are not of value. What I said was to "If you want to be published, craft your own stories with your own characters".

If you have created new situations, which implies a whole new story, why not go the extra step and create your own characters? I don't understand why you would not.

My two cents on copyright and fair use:

I do not have a problem with fan fiction, fan videos, and fan art based on work under copyright provided the creators are not making a profit, that the work is clearly identified as fan created, and that the original copyright holders can object and have the work removed if they have reasonable objections based on the content and what has been done with the characters. Sometimes you so love a character that you want to play in the sandbox (I myself wrote an itty-bitty fanfic to help cope with the loss of Rose after she was horribly parted from the Doctor... ahem.. that's a tale for another time).

I do think that copyright should be respected, and I don't have a problem with it extending past the author's death - say 50 years after publication.

Omega said:

Because this story is a piece of a larger, incomplete story. Its purpose in existing is to complete the story, something no author to date has been inclined and able to do. Creating new characters would defeat that purpose.

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Not to spark a confrontation, but this is pretty much the exact same reason most fan fiction writers say they write.

Omega said:

Because this story is a piece of a larger, incomplete story. Its purpose in existing is to complete the story, something no author to date has been inclined and able to do. Creating new characters would defeat that purpose.

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You know this for sure? Or are you assuming that since one hasn't been published it hasn't been done or attempted? As was pointed out, there's a ton of fanfiction in this universe, and I'd be willing to bet that at least one of those pieces does exactly what you claim no one has - just like your fanfiction does.

Omega said:

It was not my intention to say that I have done something nobody else has done. (Though in my perusals of published online fan fiction, none I've seen in this series approach novel length or quality.) It was my intent to refer to published stories. I want to see a published story that finishes the incomplete story. Why should I not try to create that story myself, given as I seem to be reasonably capable of doing so, and no such story is forthcoming?

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All stories are incomplete in one form or another. The characters could conceivably exist past the last page and back cover, as their "story" is only a slice of their life. Developing a character and world for them to live in implies that they had a life before the first word of the novel and that they will go on after, otherwise the illusion is broken.

What you have to understand is that the guidelines and rules for a given universe are created by its author and anyone else contributing to it will flavor it in a new way. Your version of "complete" and "capable" may not be another reader's or even the creator's. You have no way of knowing what - if anything - he had planned to go next. It could be a simple continuation or a world shattering event. Since you don't know, you're not qualified to continue someone else's story.