On Online Friendship Ethics

Beyondian

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Hi all,

This is an issue that I feel is out of my depth, and I wanted to put it to a wider group of individuals who might be able to advise me.

The scenario is as such: I participate on a very small, chummy, intellectual RP site with strong historical overtones. I have become good friends with many of the members, including a person I will call 'AP'. AP and I have been e-mailing for a while, we get on very well and share a lot of interests. He is 14 and I am 23, but we've never found that this really bothers us. I guess I feel like a sort of big sister, as I have a lot of brothers in real life.

The issue is that recently his family decided to pay a visit not only to my country, but also to my hometown. We want to meet face to face, chat over coffee, and geek out about our favorite related subjects, but we're a little unsure as to how his family will react to him wanting to meet up with an older woman whom he met over the internet. I have advised him to talk to his parents about it, and would certainly not meet up with him without their knowing or their consent.

What do you think? It never occured to me before this point that anyone could put a negative spin on our friendship, but I am rather unnerved. I don't want anyone becoming suspicious of what is really a very very innocent friendship!
 
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I think you're doing the right thing in refusing to meet without his parents' knowledge or consent. Is there any way of emailing them?

Personally I wouldn't even meet him without his parents being present, but...well to be honest I'd be reluctant to even do that.

I email quite a few people from AW; most frequently thethinker42 and Adzmodeus (both of whom I speak to every day) but as we're all mature adults, we're safe.

*cough*
 

Beyondian

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Hmm. Point. What worries me most is that no matter how innocent my intentions may be, it would be very easy and understandable even for concerned parents to put the wrong spin on it. I would hate to get embroiled in that kind of furor. Fond as I am of him, and I am fond of him as a friend, I am unwilling to put myself in danger of that sort of attention and suspicion.

What do you think? Am I in danger of getting into trouble over this? I would never have suggested that we meet up, as he actually lives on the other side of the world to me. It was sheer bizare coincidence that his family happens to be hollidaying in my hometown.

Gah. Internet. Makes things so bloody complicated.

ETA - Also, what are the ethics of holding e-mail conversations and online friendships with younger people? I'm beginning to fear that I have missed a wide swathe of internet policy and ethical behaviour that I should have been paying attention to.
 

Clair Dickson

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Some people do believe that men and women cannot be just friends. (My inlaws actually told me I shouldn't ever be alone with a male friend... and this is a guy that both me and my husband hang with.) So, it is possible that with no 'real' reason, there could be negative impression of your relationship with this young man.

If the boy is not comfortable/ able to talk to his parents about it, then he is not ready to meet you in public, IMHO. He should absolutely get their permission-- and probably invite his parents to meet you. (When I was still in high school, my parents preferred knowing about and meeting all my friends if I was to spend time with them outside of school. This lessened as I became more mobile with car after turning 17.) They're parents-- unless there's something very wrong, they will worry about their son (who they may very likely still see as a little boy ;-) meeting up with some experienced seductress woman. Their reaction to the situation will have a lot to do with how much they trust HIM.

So, he should talk to his parents about it. Ideally, he would have told them that he's made some friends on line already, but I do understand that fourteen year old often hide even innocuous things from their tragically unhip parents.

Beyond that, I see no reason why you can't meet up with this young man in a public place and chat about your favorite topic.
 

Silver King

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As a parent, I'd find the age difference unseemly. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your corresponding with the boy, but I'd put the brakes on a personal meeting. As you know, boys that age can be exceedingly vulnerable and impressionable, and I wouldn't risk wounding his tender sensibilities for any reason.

Put it this way: When you were fourteen, how prepared were you to meet a man of twenty-three, however innocent the circumstances?
 

Deleted member 42

Ask for an email or snail mail address for his parents, and for their surname.

Invite the whole family to meet you someplace casual and "American" that they'll enjoy, or invite them to your home, if that works for you.

Tell them what a great kid they have, and that you'd love to meet the family.
 
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Hmm. Point. What worries me most is that no matter how innocent my intentions may be, it would be very easy and understandable even for concerned parents to put the wrong spin on it. I would hate to get embroiled in that kind of furor. Fond as I am of him, and I am fond of him as a friend, I am unwilling to put myself in danger of that sort of attention and suspicion...

Exactly. Caesar's wife must be above reproach.

You know there's nothing in it, but to ignore the possible concerns of others may give another impression. You can't just do the right thing; you have to be seen to do the right thing.

Not that I'm saying live your life according to others' suspicions, but first and foremost, protect yourself from false accusations.
 

Deleted member 42

Put it this way: When you were fourteen, how prepared were you to meet a man of twenty-three, however innocent the circumstances?

Pretty regularly, actually. Mind, I was a weird, geeky, kid who was attending college classes, and hanging out with college students, and was 14 going on 30, and looked like I was twelve.

But my parents were actively involved; my dad taught at the college, and I brought my friends home to meet my parents, and it was not a one-on-one thing.

I think including the family is crucial; do that, or do nothing.
 

Beyondian

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Pretty regularly, actually. Mind, I was a weird, geeky, kid who was attending college classes, and hanging out with college students, and was 14 going on 30, and looked like I was twelve.

But my parents were actively involved; my dad taught at the college, and I brought my friends home to meet my parents, and it was not a one-on-one thing.

I think including the family is crucial; do that, or do nothing.

Yes, this is essentially the sort of thing I'm talking about. He is very geeky, intellectually mature, and half the time I completely forget we're of such different ages (please keep in mind that I am personnaly intellectually mature, and at the same time very naive).

I agree to including the family, and I like your suggestion very very much. I would, in fact, prefer that his family were told we have been conversing now as i was unaware that a. they did not know, and b. they would have a problem with it.
 

Silver King

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...I agree to including the family, and I like your suggestion very very much. I would, in fact, prefer that his family were told we have been conversing now as i was unaware that a. they did not know, and b. they would have a problem with it.
A. They probably don't know.
B. They WILL have a problem with it.

Trust me on this: When their son reveals that he's been chummy with you online, they'll think the worst. It's natural, seeing as how you're ten years older than him, and he's merely fourteen.

I mean, come on. What do you expect his parents to think? That you both have such an intellectual bond that it spans from early teens to mid twenties?
 

Beyondian

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... I really didn't think about it. As I'm interested in musical theatre and RP, and i beta some fanfiction sometimes, I end up with quite a few casual younger penpals. Up until now, those relationships have always centred around the subject we have in common. With AP, it's the same. We share a lot of very obscure interests, and have a lot to talk about.

I really, honestly, utterly, did not consider this from any other viewpoint until today. Hell, even MY parents, whom I have mentioned him to, didn't think of it. I am probably very naive.

ETA - Also, what I was saying was that they don't, in fact, know. I discovered this today. And I expect them to have a problem with it. I can sympathise with their point of view.

Edited To Add Again - By the way, i just want to thank everyone who is commenting on this. I'm a little panic-stricken at the moment, and I really appreciate the advice. :)
 
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Silver King

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...I really, honestly, utterly, did not consider this from any other viewpoint until today. Hell, even MY parents, whom I have mentioned him to, didn't think of it. I am probably very naive.
You're probably a very decent person, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk for offering a different perspective. It just seems that you may be opening yourself to more problems than you realize. At least to me, anyway...
 

Deleted member 42

If it were me, I'd say tell your parents, now, or I can't have any more contact on or off line.

Seriously.
 

mscelina

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I'll second that. As a parent who busted her daughter having an online friendship with a man some fourteen years her elder, I can give you a bit of advice from the other end of the stick. Make it clear that if you are to meet, his parents must be invited and included. That if he wishes to continue the online friendship, his parents must be informed and aware.

That being said, I have frequently been shellshocked when I discovered that a young man I was speaking to online was substantially younger than me. It is a difficult situation. On the one hand, you value the friendship. On the other, it's just a little creepy to be talking to a kid in between his math and history homework. BUT in the end, you must make him understand that the friendship will not continue without his parents' knowledge and permission. If he's as intellectually mature as you say, he should understand that and agree. If he doesn't agree, well, then perhaps he's not as mature as you think he is and that should give you a few minutes' pause.
 

JoNightshade

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If it were me, I'd say tell your parents, now, or I can't have any more contact on or off line.

Seriously.

I ditto this. I totally understand your point of view, but now that you've been made aware of his age and the fact that his parents don't know, you need to draw this line.

When I was a teen (girl), I had an online friendship with a guy in his fifties. My parents were aware of it, but they worried and we had to have periodic discussions about it. They never cut it off - they just wanted to make sure I was open about it and nothing bad was going on. And it wasn't bad - I was having issues with my own father and needed a male role model I could talk to freely. We had several geeky interests in common.

But had my parents NOT known, and had they found out - yeah, major freakout time. I wouldn't have put it past them to contact the guy and threaten him.

You don't want to be in that situation. :)
 

backslashbaby

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I totally understand it, but yeah.

Absolutely invite the family, ask the parents what sights in town they'd like to see, etc.

Get the parents' email address. Now.

I would go so far as to let the parents know that they are free to see any of the emails y'all have exchanged, seriously. Of course, tell the boy this.

There is nothing wrong with a 14 year-old having a friendship with an older person with similar interests. But, yeah ;)
 

fringle

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If it were me, I'd say tell your parents, now, or I can't have any more contact on or off line.

Seriously.
As a mom, I'm going to have to agree with this. You may know your intentions are innocent and good, but he's 14. He's a child, especially to his parents. You aren't. And I don't know where you live or in which country he lives in either, but in the US, there is a huge push for online safety for kids, so much so that as soon as anyone hears of such an age difference between a minor and an adult online, their bells and whistles go off instantly.
 

Parametric

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I respect that the OP is in an awkward position with regards to the friend's parents. But I want to raise a counter-argument from personal experience.

I've been kicking around on the internet since I was 14, and since that time I've built up a core group of friends who are 10+ years older than me, including a male friend who is 18 years older. (This friend, R, is pretty much my closest friend.) Since I was a painfully dull and responsible kid who never had any fun, my parents bent over backward encouraging me to have fun with these people.

* The first time we met up for the day I was 15 and my father met them when he dropped me off with them.
* When I was 16 my mother met my 18-years-older friend R and my friend and I flew out to Amsterdam to spend the weekend with the crew. (My mother actually talked me into this, since I'd never been out of the country without the family before and I'd never met R face to face.)
* Every year since then we've all spent the weekend together in the Netherlands once or twice a year.
* My parents have been great about hosting a steady stream of my internet friends from all over the place, including R (often).
* I now live close to R and we meet every week.

I've had the pleasure of learning that (1) it is absolutely possible to have great online and offline relationships with people who are older, even much older, than you, (2) not all parents freak out about it, and (3) hanging out offline can be tons of entirely innocent fun.

Don't write off the parents completely, is what I'm saying.
 

Beyondian

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I respect that the OP is in an awkward position with regards to the friend's parents. But I want to raise a counter-argument from personal experience.

I've been kicking around on the internet since I was 14, and since that time I've built up a core group of friends who are 10+ years older than me, including a male friend who is 18 years older. (This friend, R, is pretty much my closest friend.) Since I was a painfully dull and responsible kid who never had any fun, my parents bent over backward encouraging me to have fun with these people.

* The first time we met up for the day I was 15 and my father met them when he dropped me off with them.
* When I was 16 my mother met my 18-years-older friend R and my friend and I flew out to Amsterdam to spend the weekend with the crew. (My mother actually talked me into this, since I'd never been out of the country without the family before and I'd never met R face to face.)
* Every year since then we've all spent the weekend together in the Netherlands once or twice a year.
* My parents have been great about hosting a steady stream of my internet friends from all over the place, including R (often).
* I now live close to R and we meet every week.

I've had the pleasure of learning that (1) it is absolutely possible to have great online and offline relationships with people who are older, even much older, than you, (2) not all parents freak out about it, and (3) hanging out offline can be tons of entirely innocent fun.

Don't write off the parents completely, is what I'm saying.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate ALL the advice I've been getting, and it is so nice to see both sides of the issue!! I grew up with friends of all ages, from old people to young people, so age has never been any kind of issue for me. It is really hard sometimes to remember that actually a lot of people (quite rightly in today's world) see more in the ideal of age than I do.

I feel silly for not considering this side before, but I am very very grateful to see that I'm not exactly a horrible and unusual person for even thinking about having a friendly relationship with younger people online. Again, many thanks to all. :)

In update, I have contacted my young friend and have asked him to let his parents know that we've been talking and also to give me their e-mail address and vice verse so that they can ask me questions and we can make sure they are comfortable with the situation before anything further happens.
 

Spring

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Sounds like you've taken a great step forward in figuring this out!

I'm a parent and I'd definitely want IN on this conversation. Good job! I think you sound like a very concerned and responsible person.
 

Bmwhtly

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we're a little unsure as to how his family will react to him wanting to meet up with an older woman whom he met over the internet.
If his parents are anything like mine, they'll probably congratulate him and then subject to months of innuendo and jokes about it.

ummm... Hypothetically.

Ben, healing with humour.
 

fringle

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In update, I have contacted my young friend and have asked him to let his parents know that we've been talking and also to give me their e-mail address and vice verse so that they can ask me questions and we can make sure they are comfortable with the situation before anything further happens.

Good move and good luck to you!
 

Parametric

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Thank you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate ALL the advice I've been getting, and it is so nice to see both sides of the issue!! I grew up with friends of all ages, from old people to young people, so age has never been any kind of issue for me. It is really hard sometimes to remember that actually a lot of people (quite rightly in today's world) see more in the ideal of age than I do.

Just a corollary to my previous post. My online friends were hugely important to me when I was in school. I was extremely shy and lonely and depressed, and in school I was learning that I was a worthless, unlikeable person. Without these friends, I think there's a good chance I'd be rounding out the family collection of suicide attemptees.

You're providing real, mature friendship of the kind that 14-year-old geeks (which I infer from the roleplay) may struggle to find. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

:Hug2:
 
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James81

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Hmmm...if I were you, I'd consider the possibility that he likes you as just more than a friend.
 

Dario D.

This is something I'd avoid, simply because I can foresee the whole arrangement (especially with him at the house) just feeling soooooooo very awkward. (like so formal and dry, that it just makes your stomach burn thinking about it)

I have it on (very) good authority that you're an anti-socialite (like me), and what anti-socialites need for a situation like that to work is a bunch of OTHER people - loud, spontaneous ones - to act as dilution for the silent moments, and allow things to roll forward without the need to constantly think of something to say.

I'm sorry, but we're just too geared on different types of personal interactions to be throwing ourselves into a conversation match with a person we have no idea how to behave with...

And then there's the younger thing, and the thinking back on it with this sense of "wow, that was weird". Realistically, I predict that the whole situation will leave a sick feeling, unless by some magical stroke of luck, the Wheel of Odds lands on the tiny 7% chance that everything works out just fantastically.

- Hi again, btw. :) Now get on MSN, you crapsicle... ;)