What a dispiriting damned afternoon - an Office Party 'Twilight' gripe

Perks · May 5, 2009

I spent a good bit of my afternoon having the first-ever tear-laden, circular, but-I-waaaaant-it argument with my daughter. This time it was over why I don't want her to delve into the 'Twilight' saga and resultant merchandise right now.

And I'm annoyed as hell that the other adults around me have endorsed this as thematically appropriate for ten year olds. Even the school librarian! She keeps collaring my daughter, who is a reasonably advanced reader, to tell her how she simply must read these books. Now!

I have nothing against 'Twilight'. I haven't read it, but I saw the film and thought it was better than poking myself in the eye with a sharp stick for two hours. It was fine. But everything I've heard about the book series leads me to believe that it's not geared toward preteen sensibilities.

My daughter has been reading things like Madeleine L'Engle, some Nancy Drew, our own Adrienne Kress, Harry Potter, the American Girl series, and 'Little House on the Prairie". It seems to be to be too great a leap from this to the high romantic drama fare of Bella and Edward. Angsty obsession is a teenage certainty. Do I really want her sampling it now?

I don't feel like an over-bearing prude, but I guess that doesn't mean I'm not one. And I know that I can put my foot down. But I'm sore that I'm getting peer-pressure, at my age, to do something I don't think is right. I've honestly been pressed by two friends and the school librarian over this.

But all the cool kids have 'Twilight' tote bags...

Grrrr.

Deleted member 42 · May 5, 2009

Ten, even a mature ten? Hell no. The librarian is insane. Going now to check the ALA rating for Twilight.

ETA: ALA via its "organ" the American Library Journal rates book 1, Twilight as "Grade 9 and up." That's 14.

thethinker42 · May 5, 2009

Ugh. That's gotta be fun.

I had a loooong discussion with a friend a while ago about this topic. In his case, he LIKED the fact that his daughters were reading Twilight and had crushes on Edward Cullen because he was a switch from the "let's get into bed" male stereotype. I said, "Well, let me put it to you this way: Would you rather your daughters eventually get into relationships with healthy sex lives, or be with someone who stalks and controls them?"

We finally changed the subject because neither of us was willing to concede. *sigh* I don't want to encourage teenaged girls to sleep around, but Edward's virginal status is greatly overshadowed by the rest of his not-so-desirable behavior.

Love or hate Twilight, it bothers me that people think it's somehow a positive influence on girls.

/RANT

dolores haze · May 5, 2009

Won't she just read it behind your back? I'm afraid I did that all the time as a kid. The moment my mum told me I couldn't read something, guess what I did? And, though she was kind of strict, she wasn't actually wrong to try to ban me from Dennis Wheatley and Catherine Cookson when I was about the same age as your daughter, but it just made the reading material all that more attractive.

KTC · May 5, 2009

10! Good God...I'd be setting up an appointment to see the librarian. I'd like to ask her to her face why she's a total moron.

Wayne K · May 5, 2009

I was a "read behind your parents back" kind when I was growing up.

I think it was one of the few normal things I did.

stormie · May 5, 2009

Perks said:
But I'm sore that I'm getting peer-pressure, at my age, to do something I don't think is right. I've honestly been pressed by two friends and the school librarian over this.

Unfortunately, what you're getting IS peer pressure. People in your own age group. What bothers me is that a librarian is involved. Your daughter is only ten! Librarians should suggest books, not make you or your daughter read them.

I wonder, though, since your daughter is mostly used to early chapter books and books for her age group, maybe she won't totally buy into the whole Twilight craziness. You can at least hope.

Devil Ledbetter · May 5, 2009

It depends on the kid. Only Perks knows her child well enough to know what's appropriate for her.

I read each Twilight book before letting my 12-year-old delve into them. (The exception was Breaking Dawn, which I couldn't stand to finish and which she's never started.) This way I could discuss with her such things as how creepy it is that Edward watches Bella sleep, or disables her car to prevent her from visiting a friend. I told her that a boyfriend who does that WILL beat you up eventually. It's not a matter of if, but when.

She liked Twilight stuff for a while but it's such a huge fad at school that it's starting to burn itself out. She seems to have abandoned it for Invader Zim, another big merchandising craze.

WendyNYC · May 5, 2009

That librarian is out of her mind.

Just as a point of reference, my daughter is the same age and Twilight isn't a big thing in her class yet. Only the girls with older sisters seem to know much about it.

I do remember a well-worn copy of Are You There God, It's Me, Margaret and Forever being passed from girl to girl at that age, so I wouldn't be surprised if she reads it anyway. Especially if it's endorsed by the school library.

Spring · May 5, 2009

My daughter is nine and I told her she could read Twilight when she became interested in boys. I figure the points of discussion in the book (scary, controlling boyfriend, etc.) will be wasted on a kid who isn't even interested in boys yet. She put up no fight at all and seems content to wait (many years, I hope).

Silver King · May 5, 2009

Perks said:
...I have nothing against 'Twilight'. I haven't read it...

You can make a deal with your daughter: Tell her that you'll read one of the books and decide whether you feel it's appropriate material for her. That's the only way you'll know for sure if she can handle the content. You might be surprised to learn that it's not that bad after all; or, you might run screaming from the house and burn the book on your front lawn while she watches.

Either way, you really can't make an informed decision without tackling the material for yourself first.

ETA: Cross-posted with Devil, who knows what she's talking about.

wannawrite · May 5, 2009

Ten is way too young for Twilght. My daughter is 15, and I don't like her reading some of the stuff in there, but what am I to do? She is a high school freshman. She is going to have access. She shrugs and justifies when I point out that biting a baby from a person's belly is revolting. I, also, don't like the 'stalker' aspect of Edwards character, and while teen sex is always a dreaded fear, as has been pointed out here, there are worse evils.

Stand strong. Talk to the librarian. She is out of line. And keep on talking to your daughter. She may 'sneak read' it, but she will also know where you stand.

Perks · May 5, 2009

Silver King said:
You can make a deal with your daughter: Tell her that you'll read one of the books and decide whether you feel it's appropriate material for her. That's the only way you'll know for sure if she can handle the content. You might be surprised to learn that it's not that bad after all; or, you might run screaming from the house and burn the book on your front lawn while she watches.

Either way, you really can't make an informed decision without tackling the material for yourself first.

ETA: Cross-posted with Devil, who knows what she's talking about.

Thematically, I already know it's something I'm not interested in her reading at age ten. The difference between ten and twelve, in my mind, is a far ways.

Obsessive romantic love as a major story arc is not, as I see it, appropriate for ten year olds.

As far as reading it behind my back, if you knew Julia, you'd laugh. Poor thing is absolutely ridden with the compulsive need to confess. She's terrific and wonderfully reasonable. We actually had a wonderful discussion about it. Her tears rained down when she became frustrated because she couldn't make the case for why she wanted all the 'Twilight' merchandise. She really, really didn't want to say that it was because her friends had it. But that was all that was left and she knew it.

Amazingly, I also know two mothers who have arranged and facilitated 'dates' - one on one, go to the movie dates - for their fourth grade daughters. It's amazing.

wannawrite · May 5, 2009

Bless her little heart. You sound like a wonderful mom.

Perks · May 5, 2009

That's very kind of you to say. I, like everybody, am doing the best I can.

She really is a terrific kid. I'm not dispirited in dealing with her. It's just weird, me of all people, to be the one on the stuffy side. Lol!

brokenfingers · May 5, 2009

If it comes down to it, one thing you might try is find a good, solid, popular story with a really cool, great and life-affirming romantic subplot, one that you could use as a counter to the Twilight one and make a deal with your daughter that if she reads Twilight, she has to read the other.

Then you can discuss and explain why you disapprove of one and really like the other.

KTC · May 5, 2009

A kid reading behind their parents back is almost inevitable...especially with kids who love to read. BUT a librarian pushing an inappropriate book to a certain age group is unacceptable. She should not be doing this.

Deleted member 42 · May 5, 2009

I'm annoyed with the librarian. That's . . . well. Not really thinking at the very least.

A lot of kids in a similar situation would be a very different thing. They'd sneak the book, and that could be really confusing for them.

The thing is, at ten, without having read "in the genre" might very well think Edward is totally OK and normal and that's what boys are like.

Perks · May 5, 2009

brokenfingers said:
If it comes down to it, one thing you might try is find a good, solid, popular story with a really cool, great and life-affirming romantic subplot, one that you could use as a counter to the Twilight one and make a deal with your daughter that if she reads Twilight, she has to read the other.

Then you can discuss and explain why you disapprove of one and really like the other.

Ha! Actually, we went through her reading list and checked off about ten books that she'll read first before we talk about 'Twilight' again.

I didn't commit to saying yes, and I made that clear, but we talked about all these great books and that if she skips right over to the adult-themed books, she could miss out on some really wonderful stuff.

She doesn't read quickly. Like me, she's a savor-er. So, that list will probably get her past her eleventh birthday anyway.

AZ_Dawn · May 5, 2009

Devil Ledbetter said:
It depends on the kid. Only Perks knows her child well enough to know what's appropriate for her.

That's partly why I'm writing stories that are PG on the language and sex and maybe PG-13 on the violence (A difficult feat, considering my pirate protagonists). It's so adults who want a good read can share it with their kids, assuming their kids want to read it and can read at the comprehension level I write. It's also so the teens and tweens who skip the YA books and go to the adult section of the library won't feel like reading it behind their parents' backs. That, and so they don't feel they have to go to confession years down the road. (Gee, now who that be? :e2paperba

)

Perks · May 5, 2009

Medievalist said:
The thing is, at ten, without having read "in the genre" might very well think Edward is totally OK and normal and that's what boys are like.

And there it is. The biggest problem I have with the whole thing.

And I have to go into, not to go into it, now that the librarian and some of the parents (and their kids) we know have made such a damned big deal of it.

Calla Lily · May 5, 2009

I sneaked totally inappropriate books behind my parents' backs at that age, Perks. I read Matheson's Haunting of Hell House at 11 or 12. (Holy crow, no wonder I'm warped.) I think your list idea is terrific, but you may want to be prepared to catch her sneaking it at school or at a friend's house or even at the library.

When my kids were younger, I simply made sure I read everything they were reading--and everything that was popular among their friends--so I'd be able to field any questions about inappropriate stuff. (Yeah, I weeded out what they had access to, but you never know.)

We all read as much of Blatty's The Exorcist precisely because the nuns strictly forbade us to. Good luck, and you'll be amazed at how many "teachable moments" appear when you're together--moments where you can sort-of-casually talk about how abusive stalker murderer BFs are Bad News.

Good luck!

MacAllister · May 5, 2009

Gah. This is the kind of stuff that makes me really glad I'm not a parent. It sounds terribly hip and cool and groovy to think "well, hell -- if I've got an especially bright kid who wants to read something, I should count myself lucky! I'd read the book with the kid and we'd have hip, cool, progressive conversations about problematic issues in the text, and..." Hell, I gave that advice to parents more than once, when I was still working at a bookstore.

But that completely overlooks the question of what to do when you know your kid isn't ready for something, in fact...that some things may be damaging, at too early a level of maturity and intellectual and emotional development? What do I do if I know that my kid just isn't ready to deal with a bunch of stuff? Just hope it goes over her head completely, and dump the decision in her own lap? That really would be crappy parenting, though, for certain.

You have my sympathies, Jamie. And I'm sure that, being such an engaged and caring parent, you'll more than likely help with her therapy bills if you screw up too much. *g* And I do like the idea of going ahead and reading the books, just so you're prepared in case she does decide the lure of the forbidden is irresistible.

Perks · May 5, 2009

AZ_Dawn said:
That's partly why I'm writing stories that are PG on the language and sex and maybe PG-13 on the violence (A difficult feat, considering my pirate protagonists).

You know what's funny about this? I'm much more open-minded about my children's exposure to language and violence (or course, still limited at their age) than sex. And it's not for puritanical reasons. I don't think sex is 'worse' than strong language or violence. Far, far from it.

Language is just plain interesting and I really don't believe in 'bad' words. All words have fitting uses.

Violence is, generally speaking, less nuanced than sex. There are ways to talk about violent images or descriptions in ways that even very small children can understand. And violence is also possibly avoided, at least by and large, in life, if you're careful and fortunate.

Sexual maturation and desire is, outside of a small percentage of cases, a certainty. It's a blooming, complicated process that's not only uncomfortable to explain to small children, but possibly disturbing to them before their natural experiences pave the way.

Julia and I have already talked about sex. It was a pleasant, hilarious, and natural discussion. In fact, I totally rocked. I really felt that what we covered was what she needed to know. And we've added to it as the topics have come up.

The hot, heavy, consuming lunacy that is romantic love right now is beyond her. Some boys are kinda cute, but they're all still oogie. Tossing Edward Cullen into the mix sounds like introducing her to whiskey about now.

Williebee · May 5, 2009

Sure the kids are going to sneak around and read stuff they think their parents won't like. That's what inquisitive minds do. (And you and I have talked in the past about how important it is to raise a questioning, inquisitive kid.)

That said, at least in this situation you've got the opportunity to say know, and say why. And, when she does read them, you've laid the groundwork for some useful conversations.

What amuses me, (and yet, with great sadness for your situation, if that makes any sense) is the irony of the writer getting put in the position of going to the librarian and being the one in the position of "the puritan book banner".

The Librarian ought to have more sense than that. And yet, I'd also hate to see a library put in the position of "Oh, the label says you can't read that, it doesn't matter who you are, or how grown up/smart/whatever you are.)

all in all? sux.

What a dispiriting damned afternoon - an Office Party 'Twilight' gripe

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