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View Full Version : Partner Wanted. Mil/Esp, technical whiz required!



Herman Munster
05-01-2009, 12:32 AM
I should put to you what it is I need and see what you think about that. Then we can proceed as required and desired!

I write Military/Espionage, that is the best fit genre I have found so far. I have a Special Ops TEAM in the present day.
I am literately technically illiterate.
At 47 yo, I came to writing last November so writing is not my strongest suit and it has never been a burning desire nor passion. I am too old to learn much more than fetch and carry and I am getting slower and slower at those too.

#1 is 114k
#2 is 84k
These two are interchangeable and fully independent of each other, I was told that 114k was too long for a first work so I wrote #2, 84k, simple!
#3 is 104k, it should be read after #1 at the very least but, of course, can be read alone without reducing too much of the enjoyment.

#4 is purpose written for an eBook request. It is 28k, but they did ask for 50-60k. By 20k I had killed everyone and had to mortally wound the hero, who miraculously, survives, to extend it.
I haven't submitted this to the eBook yet, but I have warned him it is short and promised him 60k from #6 which will be another eBook.

Now, what do I need?
I need a partner, a technical wordsmith.
That I am not.
You need to be at least a little worldly, that translates to having been out of academia a minimum of half a dozen years. If you resent or don't understand that, experience is a damned hard word to learn and spell. I truly believe you shouldn't even try until 27/28 yo. Sorry, just the way I see it.

I do believe that I do write a damned good yarn. Not a lot of sex, not a lot of bad language, much callous violence, sometimes a bit too blood thirsty; I have been told by a grandmother friend of mine in the US. There is plenty of action, a modicum of intrigue occasionally and frequently bloody scenes of needless death. I guess you would need to read it to judge for yourself. It is what I perceive to be the necessary and desirable actions of a covert ops group in the present day.

#1 is set in N Africa
#2 is set in Afghanistan
#3 is set in Iraq
#4 is set in a 747.

I have about another dozen openings, generally chapter one which may be turned into full works, fobbed off as shortish stories, or abandoned. I still have room on my hard drive and little care for that space.

I am not sure that I would be of much use with my contributions to your work apart from the odd extra paragraph here or there, or maybe the odd radical idea. I do consider that I frequently see many things from a lot more than one POV, often way out in left field, if that be an appropriate term!

I did do that for another author when they sent me chaps 1-4 about gang girls in LA. It was way outa my league and I was lucky to understand even half of it, it seemed to be mostly in a foreign language to me, but I was able to suggest some twists and turns that had not been considered, the cops, graft, corruption, prostitution, stand over, armed holdups, burglary and robbery with general crime and mayhem.

The reply I got was wild, and they ran off swearing to add all this stuff to their work. I haven't heard back. Perhaps I never will.

Let me know how you FEEL about my post, ideas, current works and what works for you.

I have basically cross posted what I replied to a thread looking for a partner. Please don't think I am too lazy but once I have authored a considered piece, I find it very hard to improve, edit, or generally change much if anything at all. Part of my problem, or rustic charm, totally up to you to decide what!
A sense of humour must be present at all times. Sometimes I don't know if I was trying to be humourous or sarcastic.

Regards

Matera the Mad
05-01-2009, 04:02 AM
If you were a bit more in my genre, I would be sorely tempted. Don't worry about the learning thing -- just take yr vitamins and keep writing. I'm a 62yo computer geek. :D

dgiharris
05-01-2009, 05:17 AM
Now, what do I need?
I need a partner, a technical wordsmith.
That I am not.
You need to be at least a little worldly, that translates to having been out of academia a minimum of half a dozen years. If you resent or don't understand that, experience is a damned hard word to learn and spell. I truly believe you shouldn't even try until 27/28 yo. Sorry, just the way I see it.

Hello,

I do business consulting from time to time, expert in negotiations, strategic planning, program management and a lot of the 'intagibles' of creating, setting, and meeting an objective, goal, mission, etc.

The gist of your request, by your own admission, is that you aren't the strongest of writers. My sense is (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you have amazing stories however, the writing of those stories seems to be the problem and you need someone to essentially 'fix' your stories. Basically a really really good editor.

So what is my point?

You are making the classic mistake of picturing a certain 'solution space' that may or may not be related to the problem. You have a problem, you subconsciously think that only a certain type of person can solve that problem when in reality, many people are capable of solving the problem.

What is your problem?

You requiring someone to edit your stories.

What does that problem have to do with someone being 'worldly' or out of academia for five to six years?

I know many people who are worldly and can't write/edit to save their lives.

Don't inadvertantly close the doors to people that can help you.

Similarly, in partnerships, sometimes opposite complimentary skill sets are ideal. In your case, it may actually be best for you to partner with someone WHO DOES NOT have those worldly experiences. They may be able to offer a perspective (of the layman whose never left the US) that you no longer have.

Not to say you wouldn't mesh well with a worldly editor. I'm just bringing to light that you may be unnecessarily limiting your field and you may want to rethink the requirements.

If all you need is an editor. Then that is what you need, an editor and not a writing partner.

Mel...

Herman Munster
05-01-2009, 12:16 PM
Matera the Mad
dgiharris/Mel

I really do appreciate both the sentiment and the advice.
Mel I really did want to quote some of your wise words but couldn't decide between so many gems.

I did put some considerable thort and effort into my post. I looked thru to at least page 7 of this forum and read many threads. I picked up some ideas as I went.

What I wanted was to be CLEAR at what I was, who I was, how bad I am or not, to be honest and very open. After all, I am advertising myself for sale, so to speak, so I felt I had to paint a true and honest account of ME. I did not want anyone to even feel that I had misrepresented myself in anyway at all. After all, if I attract all the wrong people, I am probably missing all the "write" people as well.

".. you have amazing stories however, the writing of those stories seems to be the problem and you need someone to essentially 'fix' your stories. Basically a really really good editor

Yes.
However that is to start, to deal to what I have in the four completed works that are saved. I do wish to have these cleared from where they are to be very pitchable to agents and generally to publishers but I fully expect that all publishers will reedit any and all work to their favoured position that they know they can market.

Advertising for a writing partner, IMHO, is simply an opening position from where to negotiate and see if we have the meeting of the minds. I have to make the first "move" so to speak, and the door is open to any and all respondents. I do really hope I have not done as you have suggested and closed the door to most of my best potential partners.

I am very seriously impressed that I attracted Matera the Mad, in just 3.5 hours. We miss on genre but he was interested enuff to read, and post in a positive fashion.
I was thinking that I have just cast the first step in a very long set of dance sequences that will see if we are appropriately matched. Only time and dialogue can determine that. I see that dialogue as covering a lot of ground, positions, strengths, weaknesses, attitudes, finacial considerations from the proceeds for our collaborative work.
Probably defined and shared in equal measure, from where I am thinking.

I am really open to more from both Matera the Mad and Mel. Again, I see this as a long and developing dialogue between me and possibly a lot of others, not all in direct consideration as Matera the Mad has declared already.

Please, anyone, jump in here, all positive words are always welcomed.

dgiharris
05-01-2009, 12:29 PM
I'm excited for you and hope you find what you are looking for. Similarly, I hope you didn't take my post as negative, just wanted to help. As for this statement


...However that is to start, to deal to what I have in the four completed works that are saved. I do wish to have these cleared from where they are to be very pitchable to agents and generally to publishers but I fully expect that all publishers will reedit any and all work to their favoured position that they know they can market.

I'm not so sure about this. My concern is that you may have a misunderstanding about the level of editing that a publisher is willing to do.

Granted, I am only a short story writer (so far, working on my first book), but it is my understanding that whatever is submitted to a publisher it better be of publishable quality-- 98% error free. In terms of editing, publishers will tell you broad concepts (combine these two characters, add a miniclimax by chp 7, move this scene and add something to flesh out this character, etc) but they don't rewrite your work fixing bugs. They do edit, but their editing is more of the fine tooth comb variety.

As for negotiations, it is always good to be up front and honest and clear about what you are looking for which I think you more or less did. I was just a little concern that you may be inadvertantly turning off potential matches before they even get their foot in the door. (believe it or not this is an EXTREMELY COMMON problem in negotiations and objective setting)

I wish you the best in your collaborations. Also, in terms of the naunces of writing. The more you improve your writing and fundamentals, the better your collaboration will be.

For example, my background is physics. I was doing a collaboration with a chemist. Even though chemistry is not my area of expertise, I studied up on it and it enabled me to be more efficient and productive with the chemist.

That is just my two cents.

Good luck with all of this and be sure to drop in the Goals forum to give us an update every few months or so.

Mel...

Herman Munster
05-01-2009, 01:33 PM
Goals forum?
Indeed, I haven't come across that one yet. I shall go and fish about a bit.

I did read your post as generally positive but I did question a few spots. I just wasn't sure if you were actually with me. I love constructive criticism, I abhor the Brutal and Cruel things I have seen, frequently in critique forums. I fight hard, up til very recently proud to be a n00b, however, a true witch of the critiques, took that away from me asserting that since I joined our ranks in November, I was passed "treading the boards" as a n00b. I am now one of THEM now, I am not sure how to deal with this new and added pressure. <GRIN>

I have had no interaction with any publishers to date. I have only my preconceived notions about them, it seems I have been quite off the mark with my thinking and appreciate the correction.

"I am only a short story writer"
I am only a short on experience story writer.
I am trying very hard to catch up to where I need to be.
I have posted to pleading n00bs about tips for how to write that you have to WRITE to learn to write. A writer is nothing without words on the page. Good, bad or indifferent, you gotta get some words down to endorse yourself as a writer. Other endorsements really don't count, in my book except where the dollars flow. I have never been an award type of person but then I have never been awarded anything, perhaps my perspective will change the day I get an award, for anything at all.

You did mention that I was possibly cutting off my nose to spite my face, opening the wrong door and showing a closed sign to perhaps the "write" collaborator/partner. You said about opposites attract, I remember my 3 years of high school physics, magnets go + with -, they repel like. In most ways I tried to suggest that I was doing exactly that, stating my polarity and trying to invite some sort of "opposite" in terms of writing skills and abilities.

I do seriously believe I generate damn good yarns. I have often been the drunken orator who seizes the floor and commands an equally drunken audience, holding them semi spell bound for a lot more than five minutes.
I have been prone to recite Andrew Barton Patterson's swinging rhythms of verse for more than 40 years now. They are not short verses but mini novels within themselves. Up to half a dozen or more over perhaps an hour and really enjoying every second, as did my assorted audiences.
Getting back to my Mil/Esp fiction, these tales come to me in movie form in my head, I simply transcribe what I see with my minds eye. From there is seems very appropriate that all these works, to date, SHOULD be made into movies. I have seen them and they do look good to me and I am really just an ordinay consumer when its all boiled down.

I don't expect the partner exploration to be very swift. I know that to get that magical team finally together and really humming, a lot of water and exchanges have to pass under the bridge.

I am prepared to move as swift or as slowly as it demands, I have committed to the process, I am in this for the long haul, no whiz bang kid here!
<WAVE>

Sophia
05-01-2009, 03:49 PM
I was thinking that I have just cast the first step in a very long set of dance sequences that will see if we are appropriately matched. Only time and dialogue can determine that. I see that dialogue as covering a lot of ground, positions, strengths, weaknesses, attitudes, finacial considerations from the proceeds for our collaborative work.
Probably defined and shared in equal measure, from where I am thinking.

Hi Herman,

I like your posts; your style keeps me reading, and I think I would enjoy reading a chapter of your work, as it suits you.

You asked for how we feel about your post. For me, I wanted to be clear straight away that my approach would be to suggest ways for you to do the editing yourself, rather than do it for you. This is why I quoted the paragraph above -- in your posts, you have described strengths and weaknesses, and I think that aiding you in addressing those weaknesses is important. The ownership of your work and the financial side of it would always remain 100% yours this way.

I realize that learning to fetch and carry is going to be hard work, but you do say that you are in this for the long haul. I would be happy to give you feedback on what you do, hash out any ideas with you or help you explore new directions for your stories. You mention a lot of unfinished stories, and an ebook that is much shorter than required: I would try to help you sort out what may have caused you to stall with them.

I'm not a harsh critiquer, and I will always give you feedback with the above aim in mind. If, knowing that I won't at any stage be your writing collaborator in the sense of writing any of the story for you, you are interested, please PM me.

Regards,

Sophia

Noah Body
05-01-2009, 04:50 PM
If you're looking for a military reader, I'll see what I can do for you. I have ARSOA experience in North Africa and Iraq. Have never been to Afghanistan, but have flown in several B747-400s. :)

cbenoi1
05-01-2009, 07:19 PM
I'm in too for story/plot checking & technical accuracy where I can. Maybe go as far as checking the rythm, action/reaction scene structure. However, I am NOT going to line- or paragraph-edit the prose.

Example of the type of feedback I give can be found here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138869

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137295

-cb

Herman Munster
05-03-2009, 01:33 PM
Kind people.

I have sent 4 of you requests for email addies so I can send you the Chap via Yahoo, it is handling my word carp error better than the client who is sending out Mac Docs.

Duh...

Anyone else for a chapter, this 8k one is good, especially to critique the critiquers, right?
I just need your email addy at

[email] on application!

Please post the critiques in this thread unless you want them kept private, your call, all the way, of course!

Thank you.

Matera the Mad
05-04-2009, 09:07 AM
Here I am to issue my standard security warning about posting e-mail addresses openly in forums. :rant: There are these evil cyber-entities called spambots that skim the Web sucking up e-mail addies and delivering them to their evil-stupid masters the spammers. Maybe you get spam already, but why ask for more? It only makes it harder every day to sift out the good stuff, and the more spam the more we all pay in the end for the wasted bandwidth. No, e-mail has no stamps but it is never really free.

To give out an address safely, either send a PM (Personal Message) to the person that you want to exchange with, or mung it, like so:

nameofsomeone
(at)
gmail
(dot)
com

or some variation on that. Humans are smarter than bots, they can copy and paste and type the bits together.

You can edit your post to remove or change anything. ;)

And yes, I stuck my neck out, so I'll take a chapter to chew on. Watch yr e-mail.

Herman Munster
05-04-2009, 01:34 PM
I took your advice, and quickly too.
I have removed it.
When I saw your method of disguise I have seen it b4 and never understood why.. thank you for enlightening me.

Now, did I send you that chapter anyways, or is it still pending somewhere?
I am getting behind with a lot of stuff currently, I am writing book 5 & 6 at the same time, and 4 has to be fully rewritten, it is a dog's breakfast. So, sometime soon I will understand where I am at and be cool, within myself again!

Herman Munster
05-17-2009, 07:09 PM
I just wanted to let all those editor types out there know that I am still searching. More than one of the replies todate have been positive and we shall see where this leads us both, but if you want some editing, for a % I might add, then the door is still wide open and there is room for you too!

Herman Munster
06-20-2009, 08:26 PM
I am still in the market for a writing partner.
I have up to 7 books completed or in progress and plenty more ready to get moving. I can rely on professional editors, I have found a beauty editor who does like my work and believes that I am generating "good writing" which is a quote.

That blows me away. I believed that but until someone apart from your family and friends says it, you don't have validation. Now that doesn't mean I am close to being published, but I reckon I am closer. This also did give me refreshed energy to keep working to get published. I will put up some work thru ePublishing, a couple of eBooks and I will advertise them wildly and widely.

Herman Munster
10-14-2009, 12:44 AM
Thank you, very much, people for your continuing interest in my pursuit of a writing partner, a technical whiz. I am very happy to be creative and spewing out a bunch of words and storylines and hopefully, lovable characters, as much as they can be.
That I am technically hopeless has been brought back to again and in a very real manner.

I have been in discussions with a publisher. Well 3-4 emails each way. We have agreed that I fit in with their mission statement and if my work is up to standard, then a publishing deal is on the cards. Now I stopped replying to their emails. They have asked for a synopsis, no problem, I have generated that. They want the first 50 pages, a slight bit of a problem but it is away at the editors right now. The PROBLEM is that they critiqued my last email to them stating the OBVIOUS, to me, that I have no talent for the English as a language, its structure, grammar and grandpa, or anything else technical, like where and when to start and finish a paragraph or sentence.

Now, the crit they did on my email scared me out of replying to them. I don't know if I should let the "polished work" speak for itself or if I should try to debate them over their attitude that my technical approach is woeful.
I don't want to blow this chance by doing the wrong thing here.
I have approached a high calibre agent who has declined my approach. I feel I want to put a buffer between me and the publisher and see the agent as being the one who logically fills this gap.

What do you think I should do?
I am close to petrified about writing them another email directly as I feel they may determine that that is the standard of my writing and possible stories and simply shoot myself in the foot b4 I get the gun out of the holster.

When I completed Work 1, I queried 39 agents I thort were in my genre. I got 13 replies, mostly within 24-48 hours and more than half were personalised.
Should I go back to the agents who "personally rejected me"? It is 10+ months since I went the query route, so I fee I have a totally new business proposition with them. Is this appropriate?

My genre is Mil/Esp, ruffly or generally, but an experienced author said I shouldn't discount thriller or suspense, after all, what I generate is action and the endings make you wanna get there, AND, hopefully you find the twists and turns at the end are not predictable nor contrived. I am also hoping that having read one of the books, the punters will be lined up to buy the next one out on the shelves.

So here is me still stuck in the middle. The middle of nowhere really. I need some help and guidance as well as a writing partner so we can deliver up polished work worthy of not auto rejecting! Is there and English tech out there somewhere who can and will help me???
Or just a friendly face who has some words of wisdom to extricate me from this bog I am stuck in now! <GRIN>

Herman Munster
11-02-2009, 03:07 PM
Some more months have passed and I am still in the open market for:

Editor type working partner for my 4 full books, one eBook, one short story and then further work as it comes to me.

Agent. The literary Agent who handles Mil/Esp or thriller or suspense which I was told might also cover my spec ops team, if the agent has a very broad interest or leans towards military style happenings.

Publisher. Again, in the Mil/Esp style or broad thriller or suspense styles including military leanings. I think I have a publisher and they look very straight but I am not convinced of their size, I know they have two people but more than that might be a stretch. So other options are very much still to be looked at if I can find them.

Any help anyone wants to give me in this thread or forum or in PMs or email, feel free to do so. I promise to not abuse and use you and forget about you. If I can do anything for you, in perhaps reading your similar spec ops team or broadly similar adventure or action works I will happily look at them for you. People are constantly saying that an important part of a writers job is to read others works, irrespective of genre etc but I will prefer to remain as close to genre as possible but hit me with whatever it is you do! We may be rare animals indeed!

Regards

Herman

Herman Munster
04-27-2010, 07:08 PM
Some more months [atually more than a year] have passed and I am still in the open market ...

Maybe I always will, but a fresh appeal to the better nature of an editorial genius is not without great merit so here we continue to advertise and hope springs eternal, or does it?

The Writer
04-28-2010, 01:57 PM
Hello,

Seems you are not getting much reply here. I think people are a bit scared of by the huge amounts of work you are asking to be revised. 6 books, that's quite the word count. I would take on a less direct approach for finding a writing partner. e.g. looking a beta-reader for one book only and then focus on that book.

If you want some general advice on your writing, check out the Share Your Work forum and post a chapter there. (generally around 1000 words is the norm) You will get a lot of response there, which certainly will help improve your writing in every way.

To find an agent, I could recommend the Bewares, recommendations and Background check forum. Also perhaps Ask the Agent or Ask the Editor might be worth checking out.

There's much information to be found on this site on other forums as well (Novels, AW roundtable, sandbox, basic writing questions etc.) there's a forum for everything.

Hope you find what you are looking for,

regards
TW

Herman Munster
04-30-2010, 06:03 AM
Gidday TW

I tell them there is 6 books competed and need significant effort to edit to be open and up front with my problem and issues. I do not expect to have them all completed this weekend. I detail the amount of work, and I am increasing it, as a genuine matter of courtesy, respect and honesty. Also I wish to attract someone for a long term relationship, if it works that way. I don't really want a person who will edit book 1 and then leave cos the job is too big, it is wrong genre, ro any number of possible problems.
Actually I have just replied to a Beta outlining a bunch of issues to disuade them from readsing my gear. I don't want to suck anyone into a false situation.

Having said all that, I do herar what you are saying.
I know me from the inside, I have been with me all my life and there are no secrets I don't know. I do not want to change my writing style nor become an editor or better editor. I do not want to do a writing course, I just don't want to change what it is I am doing now. I am writing stories, I think they are interesting, I think they are exciting and I think they could be widely acceptable. Only time will tell if anything of that is valid.

SYW is a great spot but I have learned everything that style of forum can teach me. It wasn't here, it was another forum but I duplicated the exercise here for comformation. The people almost exclusively went crazy of my lack of construction, sentence and paragraph forming andf a bunch of other stuff a great editor can tidy up. I don't have those skills or any interest in acquiring them.

If that ultimately wrecks my writing career, so be it.
I do think the stories, the characters and the variety of stories plus some subtle refences to insanity, humanity, the nature of the ignorance of the community at large to understand what exactly is done in their name and for their benefit. The eupohamism of "collateral damge" is one of these. But that may even be too subtle for many to pick up, but I am working on improving that as well.

Thank you for the pointers on agents, I shall follow those up.

If you have read all that is here, I think you will see that I am looking for a long term editor who gets a % return from the success of the work. I accept there maybe only one person out there who can and will do this and that might take 5-10 years to find them, but I don't think it is my approach that is the problem, it is the lack of someone with the skills and an interest in this genre.

TW I hope you don't find my response offensive or aggressive or even overly defensive. Like I said b4, I kinda of know myself, I am over 50 and have come to writing just 18 months ago, so I am no spring chicken or molding my base personality. That I have an approach to writing that most writers seem to call incomplete is unfortunate and if that is a barrier that causes my writing to not get to the mass market to be considered for its merit, well, I accept that and will not lose a moments sleep over it.
I look to real life to pick odd examples and see Elton John who writes the music to lyricks someone else has always generated for him. I look to JK Rowling who too her self admitted seriously editorially challenged stories direct to a publisher and look at the result there. She is no more editorially capable than when she wrote her first work but has more than one work in circulation. So I see examples out, they may be rare but they are out there, and all I need is one to see merit in my stories then any number of professional editors can and will edit the works into retail form.
What I am looking for is that one spoecial person who "gets my work", and I don't mind how long that takes cos if and when it happens, it will all be worth it!

Thanks for the interest TW!

Maryn
04-30-2010, 05:05 PM
I've followed along on this in silence for some time, but each time I read it because there's a new post, my reaction is the same.

Can you handle some blunt talk, Herman, from a point of view other than your own?

I don't see anything in this for the person who partners up with you. How do they benefit from extensive editing of your work, which may never get an agent or a publisher? The only person this is good for is you.

There's no offer of payment, which editors routinely earn simply because they can edit. You say flat-out your own writing skills won't help any partner's writing, so mutual edit or in-depth critique is not on the table. You offer to generate ideas for their work, but many of your fellow writers have no more desire for someone else's ideas than you have for theirs.

Good manuscripts, fully polished and well-edited, are common. A great many never sell. That's a reality you don't seem to acknowledge. You're working on the assumption that if only your manuscript were edited, there would be money to share following a sale.

Essentially you're asking someone with a very specific skill set to do an enormous amount of work for a payday which may never come.

You didn't ask, buy crying "I'm too old" when urged to learn to edit your own work won't fly. Many of us here are older than you, and still learning.

Maryn, straight-shooter

Herman Munster
05-02-2010, 06:14 AM
I've followed along on this in silence for some time, but each time I read it because there's a new post, my reaction is the same.

Can you handle some blunt talk, Herman, from a point of view other than your own?

Greetings Maryn

Thank you for taking an interest and maintaining it. I occasionally do similar things, monitor a thread but don't have anything appropriate to say. I am glad you have fallen out of the shadows.

The answer to the "blunt talk" is yes. Maybe you will find Stan Miller's edit response here, [http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140619] is an occasion, perhaps the first time anyone has attacked the substance of my work and not just commented on the lack of grammar, structure etc. Perhaps you will notice I never ripped his head off nor did I run and hide in the corner blubbering mass tears.


I don't see anything in this for the person who partners up with you. How do they benefit from extensive editing of your work, which may never get an agent or a publisher? The only person this is good for is you.

Good question indeed.
Actually, I am happy with what I have written, so even if it is edited to perfection I don't see content changing much, if at all. I see no benefit to me to have the edited MS on the HD than the original, I would see that as both me and the editor as both having not got anywhere near what we deserve.
The answer is that since my skills are not strong in editing or critiquing as I have seen it done, I don't mention it. If I consider my skills in these areas as nil, maybe the lack of a mention might convey this. I am thinking that maybe a person with high editing skills who is wandering thru here may not need any helpful comments about editing.
As for a crit, I do offer and do these but primary about a consumers approach, a hookability and ongoing interest to keep the reader going. Almost every crit by others I have seen are purely about word, line or MS edits with some continuity or context comments.

I would be open to negotiations as to what "my editor" partner wanted or desired. If that is ANYTHING but cash, then I will give freely. I don't have current cash which is why I do offer a full and ongoing % as a financial reward.


There's no offer of payment, which editors routinely earn simply because they can edit. You say flat-out your own writing skills won't help any partner's writing, so mutual edit or in-depth critique is not on the table. You offer to generate ideas for their work, but many of your fellow writers have no more desire for someone else's ideas than you have for theirs.

Good manuscripts, fully polished and well-edited, are common. A great many never sell. That's a reality you don't seem to acknowledge. You're working on the assumption that if only your manuscript were edited, there would be money to share following a sale.

You are correct in that I believe I have little or nothing to offer within the spectrum of writing. I don't think I can edit, so that is out, and the puerile attitude and often attempt to vilify my writing has been what I see crit's to usually be and I can't in all honestly do such things to others.

The ideas bit was to maybe offer suggestions to additional matters they could raise generally or specifically within their work.

As for good works not being published, a pro editor raised this with me sometime ago. He said he had seen some crap published and great works that couldn't get thru the door. I have accepted this. That is probably a prime reason I don't feel I want to invest the one amount of money I could afford for a professionals edit unless I saw the real possibility to get it close to publishing. To have it edited and still sitting in the draw would be a total waste of everyone's time and effort.



You didn't ask, buy crying "I'm too old" when urged to learn to edit your own work won't fly. Many of us here are older than you, and still learning.

Maryn, straight-shooter

Thank you for being a straight shooter, I appreciate that approach.
"Too old" really means that I am too far away from my last formal education role that to enter it again and in an area I have no feel or aptitude for, would seem plain dumb and a waste of everyone's time and energy. I fear that me learning editing just wouldn't happen, it certainly never happened b4 in English or French.


Essentially you're asking someone with a very specific skill set to do an enormous amount of work for a payday which may never come.

YES!!!

And I hope I have communicated that properly from the start.
If that offends you, I am sorry, but that is my position and altho nothing is set in concrete, including learning editing, I see some things as more likely than not.

I have attempted to be 100% honest from the very start. I really hope that I have come across that way. If I appear to be arrogant or rude, then that was never intentional.
I have responded to a few threads where others have asked for comments. Always I have attacked the story and not the grammar and granpa of it since none of that sticks out to me no matter how many times I read it. The technicals I have offered is the odd spelling mistake and where a word may have been missed. All others are about the story, its appeal or if the hook works for ME. I can only help as tho I was the consumer.

I am sorry that is me.
I hope I have come across as honest and consistent. If you and others find my HONEST approach as wrong or inappropriate, then I will delete this thread but I feel telling it like it is is the only way to go.
Someone suggested to disguise the request as say, one work instead of 6 or more, more than 600k words complete to date but I declined the idea. I think a person needs to know what it is about b4 they walk into it.
To try to "suck them in" would be offensive to me and I assume my partner. Also, I don't expect the lot to be completed by next weekend, a person is welcome to say, "Can I take a look at the short story or eBook" you know, just to get a sense for what I produce. That would be fine and if they come back and say no thanks, and even give no reason, that would be fine with me as well.

Maryn, I do appreciate that you posted something as a straight shooter. That is more valuable to me than not saying a word or making some emotive assertions that help neither of us. I thank you for your point of view!

A coupla posts made in threads, crits they are not!
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138281
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158426

Herman Munster
07-15-2010, 07:50 PM
I am still in the market for a collaborator.
I tell yarns, write stories about interesting things but have zero technical skill to speak of. I am 18 month into writing now ansd have an nuber of completed works and plenty more that are underway or "Just have to be writ".

MY sentence structure and paragraphing is poor, let alone my grammar and grandpa are sickly and close to death's bed. Maybe you are a technical whiz who struggles with story likes or anyone of dozens of other reasons that frustrates you.

I need a writing partner who can tidy my work, maybe write queries and synopsis and help me with the main part of writing, all that is past the creative stage. I can pay you a fee or we can share a %, that doesn't bother me. I juast want to see my works shared with the great unwashed who may be quite interested in my stories/series of writings that I feel will be enjoyable with most people who enjoy action/adventues.

Are you a person like that?
Perhaps we should talk, see what common ground we have and how we may bothing be benefitted.

Let me know either way!

Regards

Herman!

Herman Munster
10-07-2010, 01:41 AM
It seems a lot of months have passed and I have yet to find my "writing partner"

I have had interesting contacts thru this thread. I did have one guy who had stopped writing and was looking for a collaborator to work with in creating new work.

It never came together but that is just life.
It didn't depress me, it didn't annoy me, it was a close match, just not close enuff. So, hopefully, we have a lot more "new people" who can look over my proposal and maybe we will have the meeting of the minds, something I feel is a great concept for what I am aiming at.

So even if you don't fit what looks like my "tight criteria", post here or in a PM and speak with me and we can see if "ANYTHING" is possible between us.

Have a nice day, or ELSE!!!

H

abctriplets
10-12-2010, 08:26 PM
Here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. I've scanned through most of this thread, and it seems that in 18 months you haven't yet found what you're looking for.

No offense, but it seems like your request is just a slight variation on the "I've got a great blockbuster idea, and I just need to find a writer to write it for me," which generally gets no replies, as most writers here recognize that ideas are a dime-a-dozen, and writers have far too many ideas of their own to bother with investing time/energy into an idea of someone else's that they aren't passionate about.

But what does seem to set you apart is that you've tried writing a number of these books yourself. Granted, most writers feel that this first part is the easiest, and most enjoyable. Many feel that the years of editing a book is the hardest part.

That being said, after 18 months of this approach, why not try something different?

Pick your best story. The one that you think would be the best to publish. Take that story (and that alone), and look for a beta reader. Or a crit partner. Or anyone that can look at it and give you suggestions. A lot of the comments I get from beta readers are those of an editor - cutting out parts, changing word choices, and making suggestions (many of which are easy to implement). Put the suggestions (that you're able to do) in your work, and then look for a 2nd beta. Your work will slowly get more polished. After all, a writing career starts with a single book. If you can't get one book polished and published, why do you think you can get 6 done?

And as you advertise for a beta reader, sure, you can be open and say you're unwilling to do an exchange, since you're not that good at editing. But describe your story, sell it as something amazing that a reader would leap at to edit :) Likewise, give a try at writing a query, and post it in the Query Hell section. Sometimes you can get so many great comments and suggestions that it's like the other people are writing it for you (which sometimes happens...)

Herman Munster
10-27-2010, 02:58 PM
ABC Triplets
You bother me!
I keep coming back and reading this, trying to decide what it is that I could/should say in reply.
Should I "justify" my position, or simply restate it, maybe I could change my approach now, along the lines of what you are suggesting... BUT ...

I feel that I am ONLY right when I say what it is I want and what I am prepared to offer in return.
I do want a writing partner who is a superior editor rather than a superior creationist. Me, well, I do best when I am creating, not just within my preferred genre, or my current series. I have 9 in the can from 9k to 214k words. Having said that, I am working on a rewrite of #? something, with a fellow writer who is into this seemingly rare genre. Perhps I should quote them:
"Basic story. It's dramatic, with good characters. With some additions and lots of editing, I think it is publishable."

I have another contributor who seems to have genre knowledge and a writing interest but appears to be more in the novice or formation part of her writing career. 3 little kids will hold you back some.
She is currently reading Book 1 with a view to maybe editing it or a beta or a LBL. I will see what she says, when she says it.

So, currently, I have two helpers, no one is giving me a free ride, nor is anyone blowing smoke!
Creatively I am in a blind spot, where nothing is currently coming to advance what is my primary WIP. So the rewrite is work and something I am not hating as much as I thort. I am writing in a series format with all works relating to each other with one stand alone involving only two main characters. All the rest are technically "standalone" but frequent references to the past, which really haunt the MC, are made and enjoyment will be greatly enhanced if you have read from book 1 forward.

What do I really want?
I want a writing partner.
Now I don't have editing skills, I have made that plain and clear! So if a partner is looking to me for this, they can forget it. I have the philosophy that not only can editing be bought that any publisher will re-edit any and all works they way they want to irrespective of what pre existing editing is in place.

You mention the ONE book published. I hadn't thort of it in those terms, but that is a fair point.
Perhaps, when I do have the ONE BOOK published, I can forget all editing and send the publisher original script and they can review them, edit them as they choose and save me worrying about it. After all, by then they should have an idea about what I am offering.

Now, since I think I have a captive audience of ONE, at least, I might as well ramble along.

Another writer, thru our SYW forum, had an MS they wanted reviewed. They sent it to me when I was having some medical issues. After a coupla weeks in hospital, I was at a creative low point. You might say blocked and even depressed. That lasted about 2 months, I could hardly scratch myself. For no good reason, I went looking on the HDD and found this file under his name. I opened it and began to read. It is way outa my genre, I would never read such things, but I have.

I did a LBL edit, plus context, plus a whole lot more.
It took me a while, and he congratulated me on the amount of, and quality of the work I did.
My final opinion was that it was so good as to be a best seller and that he should very much "protect his work". Never send out more than two chapters at a time to anyone. It is the good.
By 50% of the way thru, I knew the outcome, I wondered how it could possibly only be halfway. Then a new character was introduced, it was just a cameo, so to speak. He got killed but filled in some blanks and opened up a heap more.

So, to suggest, or imply that I am not interested in others work is not valid. Maybe i said things like that ealier in the thread, I haven't read it recently, but I do read a lot of other work, especially in other genres. There are only two of us in our genre at this SYW forum, so that kinda pushes me into others work if I want to interact with others. Plus, I have to crit a lot of their work to just have them read mine, which many do, without comment. Trying to determine what THAT means will drive you crazy. It bothers me trying to work out their motivation to read and not comment, around 30 to 1. That is a very bad statistic, from my general observations.

Someone has given me a paranormal book to review. I have to confess, it was a helluva struggle to get thru the first page, many attempts. But I will get thru it and will give an opinion and line edit as well.


This is a really good point! Damn! I never thought of that.THAT is what I live for. I may lack editing skills but if you want holes picked in a story, or an understanding out of left field, pick me, I will find holes in holes.

Simple as ABC. I suspect not.
I am pleased to meet you and for you to put in such an in depth comment, implies you actually care. It may be unintentional but it is there!

Thanks, email me if you have something to be reviewed. <GRIN>

Have a nice day, or ELSE!!!

H