View Full Version : Your Latin Test for Today...

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-27-2009, 06:48 PM
Okay, smarty pantses... what does this say:

"non vendamus porci"

04-27-2009, 06:52 PM
Okay, smarty pantses... what does this say:

"non vendamus porci"
Okay...um...I'm not sure, but I think it means "don't put your pig on my veranda," or else it's "I don't have a green porcupine."

Unless it means "I'm not selling swine today."

04-27-2009, 06:55 PM
It means "the pork is tainted."

04-27-2009, 06:56 PM
That's actually Latin?

Seventh grade failed me.

04-27-2009, 06:57 PM
Porky Pig is looking for work.

04-27-2009, 06:57 PM
Off the top of my head it means "we shall not buy pork." from the latin verb vendo, vendere meaning 'to buy'. I believe this is future tense--but I could be wrong. Want I should look it up for you?

04-27-2009, 07:02 PM
yeah, something about not selling pork, or pork not for sale

let me know when we get to the pigs flying.

See, I'm thinking this avian/swine flu thing is some kind of proof that the expression from our childhood was foreshadowing of some sort.

"When Pigs Fly" is obviously a bad thing.

04-27-2009, 07:04 PM
"We don't sell pork," because vender means to sell in Spanish. Or it means "non-vending porcupines." Either or.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-27-2009, 07:07 PM
I think it says 'We don't sell pork', but I couldn't get that to pass through a translator. :)

It's on a logo for one of the vendors we use for surplus lines here at the insurance office... and if it DOES say 'We don't sell pork', the owner and I are gonna have a good laugh. It's either a joke he's playing or one that's been played on him.

04-27-2009, 07:27 PM
Pigs don't tell lies? No, wait, that veritas.

Pigs are not allowed to sell things here.

Jean Marie
04-27-2009, 07:30 PM
Pigs don't fly.

04-27-2009, 07:32 PM
My first thought was the sign in Lonesome Dove. The one that said 'we don't sell pigs'.


04-27-2009, 08:13 PM
An Italian to English translator gives "non porci" as "do not ask". The vendamus is probably from the Latin vend, to sell. Which makes me think it means something like, "Don't ask us what we sell". :)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-27-2009, 08:14 PM
That was 'We don't rent pigs'. But it wasn't in Latin... the other saying on the sign was in Latin:

"uva uvam vivendo varia fit" - roughly translated as 'a grape changes color [ripens] when it sees [another] grape'.

I just got an email back from the contact at the broker - it does say 'We don't rent pigs'. The own was, apparently a fan of 'Lonesome Dove', too, and wanted that on his logo. People are funny, ain't they? :)

04-27-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm partial to the Latin phrase 'bibo ergo sum', myself. That was my brother's university motto. I adopted it as my own when I went to university 9 years later.

04-27-2009, 10:35 PM
"non vendamus porci"

non= a negative, which by its position refers to the verb

vendo vendere vendidi venditum is a verb meaning sell, also sell out, betray, advertise, praise and recommend.
The "mus" is we. The "a" doesn't make sence to me, but Latin was a long time ago.
"We sell" should be vendemus

porci is either the singular Genative or the plural Nominative of the second declension masculine noun porcus meaning hog as opposed to sows or pigs in general. If it was the object of the verb it would be porcum (singular) or porcos (plural).

This must not be Classical Latin. It's probably medieval Latin which I did not study or it's a mispelling.

The closest I can come up with at the top of my head (assuming this is an attempt at Classical Latin) is "We hogs don't betray."

Is this the motto of a Harley gang? Although I'd prefer to see it start with porci rather than end, but it depends on the author, time and region. Languages change.

If Vendo switched from taking the accusative in Classical to the Genative in Medieval (and I don't know that it did) then it might be a corruption of the subjunctive and mean, "We must not sell of the hog," meaning "We are not allowed to sell pork products" which in classical Julian Latin I'd prefer to see ""non vendeamus partes suorum" although like I said, it's been a long time.

Wayne K
04-27-2009, 10:42 PM
Pigs are damn fine people. This is discrimination. Next it'll be "Irish need not apply" and from there...anarchy.

04-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Pigs are damn fine people. This is discrimination.
Personally, I see this as a positive sign for pigs and hogs of all kinds. "We don't rent pigs" equals emancipation for all our porcine brothers and sisters. End pig slavery now!

04-27-2009, 11:47 PM
You've had me pulling out my old Latin Grammar book and "vendamus" probably does mean, "Let us sell" or with the "non", "Let us not sell", "porci" or "Let us not sell of the hog." (with "parts" being assumed. The Romans seemed to make a lot of assumptions. Maybe that led to some of the wars including the civil war that led to the Empire.)

It would still be unclear in such a translation whether they are referring specifically to male pigs, so that it would be ok to sell sow meat, or if they mean all pork products.

Thanks for the question, it's been a brain teaser. So what is the origin of the quote?

Sorry, somehow missed your post 14. Vendo does not mean rent (again unless it's medieval). I'll look at the other teaser in a bit

04-28-2009, 12:45 AM
uva uvam vivendo varia fit

uva = grape or a bunch of grapes, subject of the sentence or in a prepositional phrase requiring the ablative (but there is no preposition in the quote (which means the choice of preposition is "with, from, in on or by", or as an ablative absolute, which is something English basically doesn't have in normal conversation)

uvam = grape or a bunch of grapes, object of the sentence

varia = some sort of change and the only thing it can refer to here is uva

Vivendo is the (I think if I remember the name it's called) Gerund of Vivo vivere vixi victum which when combined with the ablative means to subsist on or possibly require. The problem is this is a singular neuter form of either the ablative or dative, which means it is referring to something other than the grape which is feminine. Were it videnda would be the gerund of video the word for seeing.

fit = it happens

So "uva varia fit" by itself probably does refer to either the ripening of a grape or it's turning into a raisin, maybe even rotting. However the word for raisin is astaphis so this probably is an idiom for ripening. I only have my little dictionairy which doesn't list idioms.

the "uvam vivendo" is the problem. There is the rare accusative absolute which here would be "uvam videndam" were it to be "seeing another grape". More likely it was wrong on the sign, or again a rare dialect with which I am not familiar, and should be "uvam vivenda" in which case the vivenda would be part of the rest of the sentence leaving uvam off on it's own. In which case it would be "One grape (or a bunch) ripening requires a grape (or a bunch)"

My guess is that it means liberally, not literally, (assuming vivenda and not vivendo which doesn't make sense to me and would be an easier mistranscription than videnda or even worse, videndo)

The ripening of a bunch of grapes starts with one.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-28-2009, 01:43 AM
GeorgeK... I know who I'm going to call whenever I need Latin! Now I've got you for Latin and Medievalist for All Things Medieval/Celtic/Gaelic... and... and...

Wayne K
04-28-2009, 01:48 AM
and Wayne K for all things _______.

I can't think of anything to put there yet, but I'll be back when it comes to me.

Unless the mods delete me first.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-28-2009, 01:49 AM
Oh, I know exactly what to put there. ;)

You're on my list.

04-28-2009, 02:29 AM
GeorgeK... I know who I'm going to call whenever I need Latin! Now I've got you for Latin and Medievalist for All Things Medieval/Celtic/Gaelic... and... and...

Thanks, it was nice as something else to think about. I've been terribly ill the last few years, so it's actually a good sign to me that I could think clearly enough to enjoy the attempt. Maybe I will mend. Latin Grad School was a few decades ago and prior to Med School so I might not have it all right, but so far as I look through the old texts it looks ok.

I remember people asking/complaining, "Does one letter make all that much difference?"

My response was, "I don't walk Spanish" (partly because one of the few spanish phrases I thought I knew was, "No amblo Espaniol.")

Wayne K
04-28-2009, 02:35 AM
Oh, I know exactly what to put there. ;)

You're on my list.

I'm honored.

Wayne K
04-28-2009, 02:35 AM

Wayne K
04-28-2009, 02:36 AM

04-28-2009, 02:40 AM
On my website, one of my pithy sayings across the top (all stored in a database table called "piths"), I included: Caveat copulae.

What does that mean? Hrrmmmmm????

04-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Okay, smarty pantses... what does this say:

"non vendamus porci"Don't kiss pigs with lipstick

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-28-2009, 03:35 PM
Need some clarification there, Unique... should I not wear lipstick when kissing pigs? Or should I not kiss pigs who are wearing lipstick?

I'm thinkin' I shouldn't be kissin' pigs right now at all, what with the swine flu epidemic spreading.

Wayne K
04-28-2009, 03:37 PM
Try running Sarah Palin now, with that all over the news.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Ya almost threw me with that.

Wayne K
04-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Now you're just

Ol' Fashioned Girl
04-28-2009, 04:11 PM
My job here is done.

04-28-2009, 04:13 PM
On my website, one of my pithy sayings across the top (all stored in a database table called "piths"), I included: Caveat copulae.

What does that mean? Hrrmmmmm????

caveat = let him (also she or it) beware, may (s)he beware

copulae (has to be genetive and not the subject because the verb ending is third person)= of the whip, leash, bond, rope, ligature..Classical would have caveat copulam.

Or, just reading, caveo can take the dative (which copulae could also be) and mean provide, guarantee, give or take care of

Depending on context it could be an admonishment againt anything from breaking laws that get you whipped to S&M if this is not Classical

If it is Classical it probably means "Let him provide the rope" as in our saying "Give him enough rope to hang himself"

However, I have to warn you that the Classical languages are all very nuanced and depend greatly upon context. My favorite mistranslation was an obscure Greek author, I don't remember his name, where the teacher started with me and said, "what do you think it said?"

I proceeded with saying that it was a particularly difficult passage for me, to which the 2 women in the class of the 3 of us, started to inexplicably giggle while the teacher looked on with interest and concern as I read my translation. It was an astronomic observation of a planet slowly circling a black hole before being sucked in. There were explosions of comets and showers of light. It went on for a full page. "But they didn't have telescopes, did they?" I asked.

the other 2 students continued to giggle while the teacher with a grave look on her face asked, "How did you come to this translation?"

I pulled out the lexicon and references to various authors in the use of certain words. She nodded, looked at it again, nodded and finally said, "That is a perfectly feasible and gramattically correct translation. However, as you pointed out, they would have no knowledge of things like black holes, unless unless you take into account that the author's lover was the notorious (can't remember the name) and this is his loving description of gay sex."