Gun details

Alitra · Apr 26, 2009

In my WIP ( a romantic suspense) my heroine carries a handgun in the wilderness for protection. How much detail should I include about the gun? As an example (haven't decided yet what she is carrying):

1. A compact .45 caliber handgun.

2. A Les Baer 1911 Stinger .45 ACP loaded with Winchester 230grn FMJs.

As a reader of a romantic suspense, would you prefer the first or second choice above?

My first instinct is the first choice, going on the assumption that most readers will be female and, unless they are really into guns, they won't be interested in details.

Thanks for any help.

s.s.mystique · Apr 26, 2009

If you just want to say she has a gun, the first one. But if you want to underline that your heroine is knowledgable about guns, then the second choice could be used for that purpose.

So I'd say it depends. Does it matter to her?

san_remo_ave · Apr 26, 2009

Ditto what s.s.mystique said.

If she's an ex-Army Ranger (or her Dad was and he trained her on *everything* to do with guns) then option 2 might be great for characterization. Otherwise, I suggest you use option 1.

alleycat · Apr 26, 2009

A .45 seems a bit of odd choice for a handgun to carry into the wilderness unless she's specifically carrying it to protect against human predators, but I agree with the two posters above: the first choice.

STKlingaman · Apr 26, 2009

Gee . . maybe a romantic gun.
Her grandfathers World War 1 Colt revolver. "Of all the guys
her father had trained her with, the Colt was her favorite. It just
felt right, from the way it rode on her hip, to the comfort when she
leaned into a target (peering down it's chromed six-inch barrel) to
the stopping power of the hollowed-pointed .44 round. No matter
how much her father protested for more modern weapons, she
stood her ground with two simple sentences; It has never failed me,
and I always hit the target with it."
Her father would smile, and with eyes closed he would slowly nod
his head knowing she was right.

but then again,

Alitra · Apr 26, 2009

Thanks for the answers.

My character does not really care what kind of gun it is, just that it hits what she aims at and does the job it is supposed to.

She is competent around guns but does not dwell on it any more than she would dwell on what kind of blender she used to mix her margarita with the night before.

As far as a .45, I haven't decided yet what type of gun she will be carrying. But, as a woman alone, 10 miles from the nearest telephone, she is more concerned about 2-legged animals than 4-legged ones.

alleycat · Apr 26, 2009

The .45 is certainly effective as a personal defense weapon.

When I made my earlier post, I was thinking you meant deep wilderness, such as areas in Alaska or in remote mountains. In that case, I would like a gun that would also be a better hunting gun than a .45. Being ten miles into the "wilderness" isn't that far, so there would probably be no need to hunt for food in a worst case scenario.

BTW, I think it would be fine to mention the maker of the weapon; just not go into all the details of gun and ammo.

Brindle Chase · Apr 27, 2009

Alitra said:
In my WIP ( a romantic suspense) my heroine carries a handgun in the wilderness for protection. How much detail should I include about the gun? As an example (haven't decided yet what she is carrying):

1. A compact .45 caliber handgun.

There are very few of these... a 45 in a small hand gun would snap your wrist. They have a tremendous kick. When you think 45, think Dirty Harry's gianormic hand cannon.

Alitra said:
2. A Les Baer 1911 Stinger .45 ACP loaded with Winchester 230grn FMJs.

This is not a compact gun, if thats what your going for. If your looking for something that doesnt take large hands to wield, but would still be useful in the wilderness against game cat or smaller (no small handgun is effective against bear, even a .50 cal does not much more than piss a bear off)... I would recommend a .357 or even a .40 S&W. Glock, Taurus and Ruger all have relatively small versions of these in semi-automatic

As a reader of a romantic suspense, would you prefer the first or second choice above?

My first instinct is the first choice, going on the assumption that most readers will be female and, unless they are really into guns, they won't be interested in details.

Thanks for any help.

I'm a guy, but I do read romance and would totally appreciate it if the author knew something about the guns and included some details there. It shows they did their research and in romance that counts just as much as it does in say Westerns. You would research 1700 England if you were doing a historical, and include the details... so do it for your guns. It sounds like guns are something your Heroine is around enough that it would seem glossed over if you didnt go into the details... anywho... IMHO.

Christabel_Roseau · Apr 27, 2009

a .357 snub nose pistol. Damn fine gun and fits into the palm like a sweet drink. Gotta kick on it but its small and serviceable.
In fact it was what I carried in my backpacking excursions in the Tetons on many occassions when I was a teen.
That or a .22. small not very good for self defense... but loud enough to frighten off critters for the most part. Besides 22's do a lot of damage inside a body because of their small bullet size - they bounce around alot (at least according to my cop dad and uncles.)

Gillhoughly · Apr 27, 2009

I've never seen a "compact" .45, but then it's been some while since I've been in a gun store. The smallest .45 I would handle would be a Glock. It's nearly indestructible, light weight, and has a good grip. (I have long fingers.)

Contrary to rumor, "plastic guns" show up quite clearly on airport x-rays. They have more metal in them than the average machete.

I STRONGLY suggest you find a local gun store, go in, and ask. You will find the staff pathetically eager to help you get your firearms details correct. Just not when they're busy, like on a Saturday.

By doing that, I was able to avoid a number of mistakes in several of my books. (Wrong caliber, safeties on the wrong models, the difference between a pistol and a "gun" [guns are usually cannons, I found out!], gun myths, etc.)

Writers who get gun details wrong get struck off my reading list.

Trevanian--wrote thriller spy stuff in the 70s. I stopped reading him in chapter one of his most famous bestseller because a character carried an automatic revolver kitted out with a silencer. (There's only one automatic revolver I know of, the Webley-Fosbury model, which killed Miles Thursby in The Maltese Falcon.) Revolvers cannot be kitted out with silencers at the end of the barrel because all the noise is generated elsewhere on the frame. It's a Physics Thing.

Sara Paretsky's popular V.I. Warshawski's PI walked into a gun store and bought a specific model, a .38 8-shot revolver. The named model carries only 6 shots, and that state had a 15-day waiting period between purchase and delivery. I checked with a gun store owner on whether he would skip the wait for a pretty girl with a black eye. He said NO way, it would cost him his store.

George C. Chesbro, author of the Mongo series and former VP of the MWA, had a safety on a revolver (they don't have them) and loaded it with a "butt clip." Revolvers are loaded through the revolving cylinder (hence the name). Semi-autos are loaded through the grip, and it's called a "magazine" not a clip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_pistol

The 33 Worst Mistakes Writers Make About Firearms.

Program takes Mystery Out Of Firearms For Writers.

Firearms Terminology for writers who don't shoot and characters who do.

Please, for the sake of your readers who DO know about guns, get your details right. More women are into sport shooting than you'd expect!

Christabel_Roseau · Apr 27, 2009

Gillhoughly said:
Writers who get gun details wrong get struck off my reading list.

LOL you would have back clicked like crazy out of one of my stories...
I used a Walther PPK Semi Auto (15 clip/mag I think)for my Hero - one I had certain experience with - Lol.... the gun slingers chopped my head off over it. Too old, unreliable, likes to jam, wouldn't use it at all, nice for a display case etc.

In another draft I changed it to a Browning Firestar.... but it didn't and still doesnt feel right to me. Oh well.... thinking of just going for a 9ml Glock in the final redraft of the peice.

But all good points.... very important to get "real facts" straight when dealing with firepower and in some cases lots of different fire power within the same scene. 2cents

Alitra · Apr 27, 2009

Thanks again everyone. Points well taken. I'll make sure and do my research thoroughly before writing a word.

I'll choose option 1.5. Enough info to make sport shooters/gun lovers happy without putting other readers to sleep. There must be a middle ground there somewhere.

Edited to add, thanks Gillhoughly, wonderful links!

Cathy C · Apr 27, 2009

If your character is going out hiking (which is what I consider ten miles from civilization) and wants a gun for self-defense--and ISN'T worried about the four-legged critters she might run into, I highly recommend a Taurus 2" snubnose .38 revolver. The one pictured is a 2". The same model, with a 3" barrel, is my favorite handgun and will shoot a one inch group right out of the box. Meaning if you 1) buy the gun and don't do a single thing to it except put in bullets, 2) aim at a target, 3) don't move the barrel and 4) pull the trigger five times, it'll put all five bullets in a one-inch round circle---about the size of a quarter.

Now, I'm a fan of revolvers because 1) I reload my own cartridges; and 2) you're not tossing shells (e.g., evidence) around willy nilly. Hot cartridges are not only a fire hazard in dry environments, but are distasteful to me when I'm hiking in scenic areas. And depending on wind drift, an automatic will toss those things from one to ten feet away, meaning you have to go FIND them. Annoying when you're in a time crunch.

JMHO, of course. But I likewise get annoyed when people write things wrong. So definitely spend some time at the excellent sites Gilhoughly offered.

tennesseeg4 · Apr 27, 2009

If it doesn't matter to her, definitely avoid her using technical terms like full metal jacket (not really suitable for her purpose), or how many grains the bullet weighs.
If she was buying it straight over the counter the ammunition would just have a stock bullets, which hollow points would be good enough, but if you wanted to go the tech route, if she had a buddy that happened to reload, she could get something wicked put on for her, like Nosler partitions. He could also serve as the exposition provider with all the technical details, like Q did for James Bond.

Brindle Chase · Apr 27, 2009

Alitra said:
Thanks for the answers.

My character does not really care what kind of gun it is, just that it hits what she aims at and does the job it is supposed to.

She is competent around guns but does not dwell on it any more than she would dwell on what kind of blender she used to mix her margarita with the night before.

As far as a .45, I haven't decided yet what type of gun she will be carrying. But, as a woman alone, 10 miles from the nearest telephone, she is more concerned about 2-legged animals than 4-legged ones.

If its for 2 leggers... then anything .380 ACP or above is considered a manstopper. There are ALOT of cute, little .380 ACP or .380 Auto. Look into Walther... they make perhaps the most reliable .380's on the market. Avoid cheap brands like Raven.... nice name, but they notoriously jam. Sig Sauer is another good brand. Taurus is the best of the cheap models(in fact, the only inexpensive gun line worth a damn)... and you can never go wrong with a Smith and Wesson, though you might find the trigger pull a little stiff, which causes the gun to jerk a bit when depressing the trigger... even their "Lady smith" revolvers.

A .38 snub is excellent, like Cathy suggested... I got my wife a Taurus, though the double action, 5 round model, versus the one Cathy pictured (so it has the hammer on back for staged cocking)... taurus has a great trigger pull (set default at about 10 lbs) so it doesnt take any strength to pull, but isnt a hair trigger (8 lbs or less) ... where the S&W comparable(the lady smith .38) has a 14 lb trigger pull and alot of guys (like me) find that a bit stiff unless you have a double action model. Just remember shooting double action takes alot more time and wouldnt help in a pickle!

Given your char is worried about 2 legged attackers, 9mm is an option and there are hundreds of small compacy semi-auto 9mm. Ruger has a great line of these if you dont like the militaristic look of the Glocks. Anywho... hope this helps!

Gillhoughly · Apr 27, 2009

I am totally staying on CathyC's GOOD side!

Any dame who reloads her own ammo has got MY respect!

FWIW, I have .38 Colt Detective Special with a special grip and wadcutters. If guests are in my house, especially if they have kids, it gets locked up for the duration. I keep it loaded. Burglars are not going to wait for you to load.

If I did get a semi-auto, it would be a Glock 9mm, as they are very reliable. You do have to hold the thing to see if the grip is right. Some guns are just too small for my hands, others too big and unbalanced.

When I go to the firing range I usually slug down a caffeine drink and a big old candy bar, so I'm wired and shaking.

If I can bullseye a man-sized target at 25 feet with all that shaking (to reproduce the adrenaline I'd have pumping in my system in a real emergency) then I should be safe enough!

Paxton Quigley-Armed and Female

I look on a firearm the same way I look on a plunger, a useful tool I hope I'll never have to use!

tennesseeg4 · Apr 27, 2009

Those are some great points. I thought of some other things to think about, assuming she's getting chased around, is it by more than one person? If it's a chase, is it fast or slow? Does the opposition have handguns/rifles with or without scopes? Is it day or night? Does she have extra ammo with her, or only what is in the gun? Is she going to be stranded for one day, one week, or longer? Does she have food if it's more than a day? Is the woods filled with dry crunchy leaves, or after the rain where she couldn't rely on sound? You might be better off to choose the gun after you figure out how she's going to use it.

Alitra · Apr 27, 2009

tennesseeg4 said:
Those are some great points. I thought of some other things to think about, assuming she's getting chased around, is it by more than one person? If it's a chase, is it fast or slow? Does the opposition have handguns/rifles with or without scopes? Is it day or night? Does she have extra ammo with her, or only what is in the gun? Is she going to be stranded for one day, one week, or longer? Does she have food if it's more than a day? Is the woods filled with dry crunchy leaves, or after the rain where she couldn't rely on sound? You might be better off to choose the gun after you figure out how she's going to use it.

All of the above.

She will have an extra magazine full of ammo, and they will run out of food. You can throw a few bear encounters in there too.

She would prefer a rifle but she is limited to a handgun due to state laws.

Once again, thanks folks, you have all been a huge help.

flannelberry · Apr 28, 2009

Just jumping in after a lot of lurking and a long absence (so long I didn't have an active user profile anymore!).

I would hugely recommend that you go and fire some guns - not just handle them and look at them. When you're describing firing them you will lose people if you haven't experienced it and try to describe it. I'm another person who gets driven bzonkers by inaccurate descriptions. For example - a slight, dainty feminine heroine running around single handing a Ruger .45 and hitting everything -especially if she's just picked it up - is going to lose me (I hated shooting our Ruger). Likewise, shooting one kind of gun does not mean that you understand how others of the same class will feel. For example, our shotgun. We had a Mossberg, I loved shooting it. It had some recoil but nothing that was difficult if you had a good stance. Our new shotgun - exact same gauge, I hate shooting and don't do it voluntarily. To someone unschooled it looks essentially the same but the weight of it makes it very different to shoot. Technically it has less recoil but the weight of the forestock puts my stance and grip off and it feels like more. I know that, correct for it and still hate it.

I hope this helps.

Carlene · Apr 28, 2009

I'm with you Flannel - I shot .22's in competition (Silhouettes outside) for a while then took a NRA gun safety course. The last class we fired a .38 - BIG difference.

I hate it when people get basics wrong in books too. I read a mystery once where the main protagonist put the bullet of a .38 .. in the barrel! I couldn't stand it and write a nice letter to the author via her publisher. She wrote back her thanks - she said she'd never touched a gun and apparently neither had her editor! Oh well.

Carlene

C.bronco · Apr 28, 2009

It definitely depends on when your novel takes place.

bettielee · Apr 28, 2009

You know, I know NOTHING about guns except that a .45 s a monster. (and I know this because I read, apparently books written by authors who do research. put the bullet in the barrel? Did no one read a Western? None of the beta readers... the editor? The publisher? Egads!) I reiterate what all the above knowledgeable people say: no compact .45

Gillhoughly · Apr 29, 2009

Writers and editors aren't the only ones who don't know about guns.

I saw a cover to a western that showed a mountain man firing his cap and ball rifle--which was ejecting an empty cartridge like a machine gun!

I *think* some BB guns load from the muzzle, but don't quote me. Find out your state laws on guns. I think BB guns are illegal in Massachusetts, and you can't buy Mace in Wisconsin. It is wholly illegal to own a gun in DC--they thought that would cut down on gun crime. It didn't work. Bad guys ignore laws they don't like, yanno!

Yes, please, go to a firing range and shoot a piece of paper.

Ask the guys about how TV shows always get things wrong. Find out what pistols will put a bullet through a car door.

And in some cases a knife wound is worse than a bullet wound. Victims don't know that they're bleeding out until it's too late. Hint: DON'T pull the knife out, it can kill you.

One gal I know (she was a biker at that phase of her life) got stabbed with a steak knife. With it still sticking out of her, she drove herself to the ER on her Harley, singing at the top of her lungs to keep herself from fainting. (Okay, she was drunk, too.) They thought she was nuts, but it kept her alive!

Carlene · Apr 29, 2009

Wow - and I thought I had some interesting friends!! Just curious - where (in her body - not the city) was she stabbed?

Carlene

Gillhoughly · Apr 29, 2009

I didn't ask for details, but think it was in the lower thoraxic/upper abdomen area. She said it hurt like hell but she was too drunk to be scared.

She doesn't do that kind of thing any more.

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