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free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 01:30 AM
so, i am 13 and writing a book right now!!!! it is set on a paralel world and is about this boy who is a lieutenant in a group of rebels called the moon warriors. he is going n a mission with his division to break thru a wall that holds the only weapon in the world that can relinquish the grip of a mysterious evil king called Q. The weapons turn out to be 2 dragon eggs. he takes them back to the city of selara'tac, which is the hq of the moon warriors. an egg hatches and he becmes the 1st dragon rider. then his girlfriend, sarah, holds the egg and it hatches too. they are both now dragon riders. later that week though, sarah is abducted by Q's men. it is up to traymerse, the main character, to save her. while this is going on, sarah tries to escape and gets herself in a pickle...

i am not done with it yet but i think it has a good chance of getting published. it is 42k words and halfway thru. i hear that publishers like shorter novels nowadays. any feedback is deeply thanked!! :D

Red.Ink.Rain
04-16-2009, 01:37 AM
Hm, be careful you don't rip off too much of Christopher Paolini. Even though he definitely didn't start the whole "dragon rider" idea, he made it famous. Maybe they don't ride the dragons...maybe they could be small, fierce dragons, like hunting falcons, and the boy and his girlfriend are the only ones who can have control over them...

Just throwing out ideas here. :) But I'm a sucker for anything with a rebel army.

Robert L.B.
04-16-2009, 02:00 AM
Hm, be careful you don't rip off too much of Christopher Paolini. Even though he definitely didn't start the whole "dragon rider" idea, he made it famous. Maybe they don't ride the dragons...maybe they could be small, fierce dragons, like hunting falcons, and the boy and his girlfriend are the only ones who can have control over them...

Just throwing out ideas here. :) But I'm a sucker for anything with a rebel army.

HA.

Dragonriders of Pern was famous long before Inheritance was even a twinkle in Paolini's eye.

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 02:06 AM
yeah he is kinda my hero but in a way it is kinda a cross between inheritance and twilight because traymerse is a werewolf with sick powers so he is always scared that he will kill sarah so it isnt really that alike to chris p. and is dragonriders of pern good?

suki
04-16-2009, 02:07 AM
Just a fly-by comment, but Q made me think of both Star Trek and Bond. Mostly Star Trek given the space theme... ;} Rethink his name.

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 02:08 AM
o yeah, ive never seen an episode of that so i guess it was just a stroke of misfortune

dragonkid
04-16-2009, 02:15 AM
First – you have never seen an episode of Star Trek? NEVER?? Go rent some reruns NOW!!!

Ok, now that’s off my chest...congrats on already being 42k words into a novel! It sounds like an interesting idea – just be careful that the rules and storyline make sense and aren’t too close to already published novels. If you wanted to share a couple of pages on the TWFT thread or in the share your work form, we could give you some more feedback. Is there anything you want to hear our thoughts on specifically?

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 02:18 AM
ok sry but what is the TWFT thread? this is all rly confusing...

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 02:18 AM
and i am more of a star wars guy

dragonkid
04-16-2009, 02:24 AM
Oops, sorry – it is sort of confusing at first. The TWFT thread is an abbreviation for “teens writing for teens,” which is where you introduced yourself a few minutes ago. There’s a lot of good information about how the forum works in the newbies forum, and especially on this thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66315.

And it’s okay if you like Star Wars more, but you have to watch at least one episode of Star Trek! It’s a nerdy right-of-passage. Personally, I liked the Voyager series best, but I’m probably in the minority there…

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 02:27 AM
o thnx

Fade
04-16-2009, 02:34 AM
so, i am 13 and writing a book right now!!!! it is set on a paralel world and is about this boy who is a lieutenant in a group of rebels called the moon warriors. he is going n a mission with his division to break thru a wall that holds the only weapon in the world that can relinquish the grip of a mysterious evil king called Q. The weapons turn out to be 2 dragon eggs. he takes them back to the city of selara'tac, which is the hq of the moon warriors. an egg hatches and he becmes the 1st dragon rider. then his girlfriend, sarah, holds the egg and it hatches too. they are both now dragon riders. later that week though, sarah is abducted by Q's men. it is up to traymerse, the main character, to save her. while this is going on, sarah tries to escape and gets herself in a pickle...

i am not done with it yet but i think it has a good chance of getting published. it is 42k words and halfway thru. i hear that publishers like shorter novels nowadays. any feedback is deeply thanked!! :D

Okay, I admit that though I'll buy anything with the words "rebel army" on the back (this is why my bookshelf is so full), this sounds like Eragon. I mean, I bet there are more differences than we can see because you have this all in your head, but if someone just reads the blurb, they won't know all of the minute differences. They'll just see: Rebel army (like the Varden), evil king (like Galbatorix), dragon rider (like Eragon), even the eggs hatch the same way. So they'll probably think Eragon ripoff and put it back on the shelf.

Also, out of pure curiosity, why are the dragons the only thing that can banish the evil king? And, do the dragons have to hatch when the eggs are touched (is that something all dragonrider books have, or did Paolini come up with it)? If not, I'd try to diffrientiate myself from the other writers in the genre.

Marie
04-16-2009, 02:39 AM
I think it sounds interesting, but, like other people said here, a bit like Paolini's books. I have read other dragon rider books, so it's not all him, but he made them seem more famous.


and i am more of a star wars guy
(This isn't relevant, but I'm also a Star Wars geek.:))

Zoombie
04-16-2009, 02:46 AM
Study real world empires so that you know what the heck they actually are.

First hint: Empires do not have Kings.

Second hint: Empires are rarely evil just to be evil. Why is Q evil? I mean, make sure he's got a reason and a life before his place as an emperor. Hitler didn't just wake up one day and say, "I'm gonna start WWII, kthxbai." Also, Empires can be really good for a place if they're well run. Rome built aqueducts and roads that lasted for centuries, and Britain created America. They also can really really fuck a place up: Africa is the way it is because a bunch of European empires sliced it up.

Also, what is the tech level of your world? What do the people eat? What is the currency? Why are people rebelling? HOW are they rebelling? Why hasn't the Emperor sent in the troops and gutted them? Are dragons well known? Common? If not, how would our heroes know what dragons could do?

How do your dragons fly? How big are you dragons? How do they breath fire? Are they intelligent? Is there magic? How common IS magic. What effects does magic have on your community, economy, religions?

How would a good Emperor USE magic to keep his hold on the Empire? 17th century Emperors were quite good at using the press to actually make themselves seem awesome and make everyone else seem really shitty.

Remember, news travels slowly in pre-car worlds. Without air travel, without telegrams, without telephones, you have very insular communities who's only news comes from who?

The Empire!

There is a reason why revolutions against the various Monarchies of the world didn't come till what? 200-300 years ago.

Modern technology and more importantly, the philosophies BEHIND modern technology that brought us enlightenment and the idea that we are rational beings.

Remember, previously, the Emperors and Kings of the world were where they were cause God Said So.

Don't forget the power of religion. Even today, religion is a huge force for both good and evil.

Are their clerical differences between your various churches? How many religions are there? are some religions opressed and others free? What about race and racism?

To be a Jew for about 1800 years was to be synonyms with "Pogrom" and more accurately, to "Have a Pogrom against you". To the Catholics and the Greek Orthodox and the Protestants, it was a jolly good time to go to the Jew quarter and beat the shit out of some of the fucking kikes.

Remember, Hitler didn't just wake up with a hatred for Jews and neither did the country he ran: This is all built on hundred of years of hatred and death.

SO!

To sum up:

Read about the real world. If you don't have knowledge of the real world, your fake world is going to look just like that: Fake.

Learn about actual Empires and find out how they work.

Learn about the time period that is closest (technology wise) to your time.

ASK QUESTIONS! Constantly! Always always *always* ask questions about your world. Make it logical, make it realistic.

Cause if its realistic, then people will CARE more about your characters.

Worldbuilding, this is called.

Its a very very vital skill.

Marie
04-16-2009, 03:00 AM
Study real world empires so that you know what the heck they actually are.

First hint: Empires do not have Kings.

Second hint: Empires are rarely evil just to be evil. Why is Q evil? I mean, make sure he's got a reason and a life before his place as an emperor. Hitler didn't just wake up one day and say, "I'm gonna start WWII, kthxbai." Also, Empires can be really good for a place if they're well run. Rome built aqueducts and roads that lasted for centuries, and Britain created America. They also can really really fuck a place up: Africa is the way it is because a bunch of European empires sliced it up.

Also, what is the tech level of your world? What do the people eat? What is the currency? Why are people rebelling? HOW are they rebelling? Why hasn't the Emperor sent in the troops and gutted them? Are dragons well known? Common? If not, how would our heroes know what dragons could do?

How do your dragons fly? How big are you dragons? How do they breath fire? Are they intelligent? Is there magic? How common IS magic. What effects does magic have on your community, economy, religions?

How would a good Emperor USE magic to keep his hold on the Empire? 17th century Emperors were quite good at using the press to actually make themselves seem awesome and make everyone else seem really shitty.

Remember, news travels slowly in pre-car worlds. Without air travel, without telegrams, without telephones, you have very insular communities who's only news comes from who?

The Empire!

There is a reason why revolutions against the various Monarchies of the world didn't come till what? 200-300 years ago.

Modern technology and more importantly, the philosophies BEHIND modern technology that brought us enlightenment and the idea that we are rational beings.

Remember, previously, the Emperors and Kings of the world were where they were cause God Said So.

Don't forget the power of religion. Even today, religion is a huge force for both good and evil.

Are their clerical differences between your various churches? How many religions are there? are some religions opressed and others free? What about race and racism?

To be a Jew for about 1800 years was to be synonyms with "Pogrom" and more accurately, to "Have a Pogrom against you". To the Catholics and the Greek Orthodox and the Protestants, it was a jolly good time to go to the Jew quarter and beat the shit out of some of the fucking kikes.

Remember, Hitler didn't just wake up with a hatred for Jews and neither did the country he ran: This is all built on hundred of years of hatred and death.

SO!

To sum up:

Read about the real world. If you don't have knowledge of the real world, your fake world is going to look just like that: Fake.

Learn about actual Empires and find out how they work.

Learn about the time period that is closest (technology wise) to your time.

ASK QUESTIONS! Constantly! Always always *always* ask questions about your world. Make it logical, make it realistic.

Cause if its realistic, then people will CARE more about your characters.

Worldbuilding, this is called.

Its a very very vital skill.
I totally agree with this. Especially the part about how Empires are not started to be evil. Most governments are started with good intentions in mind, even if they end up going south. (We had a talk about this in AP world.)

Red.Ink.Rain
04-16-2009, 03:03 AM
Also, reading up on history in general will give you great ideas. :) The way government and people in power actually tick is pretty fascinating.

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 04:28 AM
YES! Zoombie that was exactly what I wanted! And Q is not being evil for the heck of it. He is a dictator, and I can't describe every single element in the story. Everything is described in the book (or will be). Thanks!

Robert L.B.
04-16-2009, 04:42 AM
*strangles Paolini for corrupting so many*

Inheritance might seem like it made dragonriders famous, but look at the history of Anne McCafferey's DRAGONRIDERS OF PERN series. It's been famous for a LONG time. In fact, it's so famous, and so popular, that her son has taken over its reigns after she's spent a good part of her life writing its world. How many series do you know of that are passed down like an inheritance, pun definitely intended.

WKolodzieski
04-16-2009, 05:53 AM
Eragon was the first thing I thought of first as well, Fade, though to the OP I'm not suggesting anything wrong with that, (but I'm hoping for your sake there are major differences in the plot) just that your brief synopsis did remind me of it all too well.

And I'm a Star Wars guy myself - even though I'm definetly psyched about the new Trek movie.

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 06:23 AM
yes there are some major differences the guy is a werewolf so he turns all hairy on full moons and in my book there is nothing even close to roran THANK GOD! I hate that guy!!! so, yeah, and there are some other stuff in there too (like no insanely long descriptions...)

WKolodzieski
04-16-2009, 06:31 AM
Hey don't knark long descriptions! Just kidding bud, it just happens that the model for my WIP is "insanely long descriptions" that drone on and on (on and on to a degree, I mean) but that's the point. And I actually don't recall Eragon being too over-the-top descriptively, although it's been awhile since I've read it and it's certainly not my genre of interest. Good luck w/ your book, keep trekkin'.

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 06:39 AM
haha it is much worse in eldest and a lot worse in brisingr he could have cut it down two hundred pages

Robert L.B.
04-16-2009, 06:52 AM
If you truly want your book to not copy Eragon, then just make your MC human. That's it. Give him human emotions, human responses to stimuli, human everything.

Eragon was a sociopath by the strictest definition. He had problems with taking the life of an ant while ignoring the fact that he had slaughtered hundreds of humans. He passed judgment on someone despite not having any legal or moral authority to do so. And let's not forget how he abandons his brother by blood to the enemy despite being told that he was not himself and could potentially be rescued. Do not make an Eragon.

Mythical Tiger
04-16-2009, 07:19 AM
The idea sounds........ intresting. But right when I finished reading, the first thought that came to my mind was Eragon. I know everyone has already informed you of that, I just needed to get it out. Now, I was wondering if you had any of your story posted on SYW?

Best of luck and happy writing!

~Sam

Zoombie
04-16-2009, 02:15 PM
If you truly want your book to not copy Eragon, then just make your MC human. That's it. Give him human emotions, human responses to stimuli, human everything.

Eragon was a sociopath by the strictest definition. He had problems with taking the life of an ant while ignoring the fact that he had slaughtered hundreds of humans. He passed judgment on someone despite not having any legal or moral authority to do so. And let's not forget how he abandons his brother by blood to the enemy despite being told that he was not himself and could potentially be rescued. Do not make an Eragon.

Or just go MY route, and embrace the sociopathic stuff and make your hero a uncaring, calculating monster who skins hookers while also trying to save the world (Entirely for his own profit...he's not a stupid monster, if the world is destroyed, he won't have anyone around to kill).

Momento Mori
04-16-2009, 02:59 PM
It's great that you're working on a novel, luvs2write44 and I don't want to discourage you at all but reading what you've put up here, it does seem like an obvious cross-over between Twilight, Star Wars and Eragon. You need to work out what it is that you're bringing to the story that can make it original because at the moment, it seems that you're only tweaking certain points which make for superficial differences without bringing anything deeper to it.

I agree with everything that Zoombie has said re worldbuilding. You really do need to have a clear idea as to how your world operates and why. I think you'll also need to consider some potential plot holes.


luvs2write44:
he is going n a mission with his division to break thru a wall that holds the only weapon in the world that can relinquish the grip of a mysterious evil king called Q.

Why is the king mysterious? Do people not know who he is or is it because he has mystical powers? How is he evil - what is it that he's done that has made the rebels want to rebel? Why is there only one weapon that can defeat him and does the king know about it? If so, why hasn't he moved to destroy it himself? Is it only one group that's rebelling against him or are there lots of different groups? If there are different groups, why don't they band together?

If there's only one weapon that can defeat the king, why are there 2 eggs? Do the dragons have to work together or can either dragon be used to defeat the king on his own? How are the dragons supposed to defeat the king? Do they eat him, breath fire on him or something else? If we're talking about physical destruction, why can this only be done by dragons - why can't someone just fire an arrow into the king or torch him, kill him with a sword etc?


luvs2write44:
an egg hatches and he becmes the 1st dragon rider

How does he become a dragon rider? Does it happen straight away (if so, isn't the dragon going to be too small to ride - it sounds like the eggs are small enough to carry, which suggests that the dragons are small when they've first hatched). If he has to wait and train to be a dragon rider, how does he learn? Can he communicate with the dragon in some way?


luvs2write44:
then his girlfriend, sarah, holds the egg and it hatches too.

If the egg hatches when it's held, how come it didn't hatch when it was being carried back to the rebel base?


luvs2write44:
later that week though, sarah is abducted by Q's men.

How and why? Is she just out for a stroll and they snatch her? If they've got her, why not kill her straight away? Why isn't the dragon with her to protect her?


luvs2write44:
traymerse is a werewolf with sick powers so he is always scared that he will kill sarah so it isnt really that alike to chris p.

If there are werewolves, are there other supernatural creatures in this world as well? If not, why not? If so, what are they, how do they operate and are they also part of the rebel group?

The problem with having a werewolf afraid of hurting his girlfriend is that it's rapidly becoming one of those fantasy cliches that everyone does - e.g. Laurell K. Hamilton, Stephenie Meyer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, even the BBC3 TV series Being Human has done it.

You need to work out what it is that makes your werewolf different as a character and how that wereolf mythology slots into your world. Is it there for a purpose or just because you think it's cool?

Hope this is useful

MM

Hapax Legomenon
04-16-2009, 04:25 PM
Ah, Zoomb, my love for you keeps growing every day...

Remember, the only reason why the biggest Empire in the world had a King (or Queen, really) was because it was traditional. They were a kingdom that became an empire, so the ruler also had the additional title of Emperor/Empress.

Also, an empire is defined by the rule over different groups of people (Jews and gypsies don't count -- they never do), but how they do this is entirely up to the empire.

The Mongols may have ruled with an iron fist, but they never tried to convert anyone. Rather uniquely for the time period, they had equal-opportunity massacres. The original colonies that became the United States built self-sufficient infrastructure because all the people England ruled over were formerly European and didn't mix with the culture. Also, because of the distance, the colonies were given a lot of freedom, but when England tried to pull back regulation, the colonies revolted. Africa was such a great fuck-up because there were so many peoples who used to be self-sufficient who couldn't be anymore because the Europeans arbitrarily divided them up and made them grow cash crops, destroying any infrastructure that was already there. This screwed things up, and also the mix of ethnicities and religions and loyalties made it very difficult to get stuff, like revolts, done.

It may be that only one group of people, like land-owning white males, people from the original group that rules over, or just the very very upper crust, of the empire has any power, but they may not necessarily be doing that bad of a job of it, especially if there's some form of noblesse oblige.

If you insist on an 'evil' empire, the best way to do it would be for the original group that started the empire think that the people they're ruling over are lower beings that need to be 'uplifted' and converted and whatever when really it's just aggravating the situation. They may learn how to read, but eh. Hey, it worked for Africa, didn't it?

free_cashews_on_me
04-16-2009, 05:36 PM
yes traymerse is human, and, as mentioned earlier, there is TONS of differeces between eragon and this :D oh i got to go see you guys later!!

Momento Mori
04-16-2009, 06:26 PM
Haphazard:
Africa was such a great fuck-up because there were so many peoples who used to be self-sufficient who couldn't be anymore because the Europeans arbitrarily divided them up and made them grow cash crops, destroying any infrastructure that was already there.

That depends on how you define "infrastructure" and precisely which European countries we're talking about here. There was no uniform European approach to the governing of African colonies and much of the land grab was more concerned with mineral rights than it was with agriculture. At the same time however, some European countries did work on establishing rule of law, roads, an education system, sanitation (at least in some of the urban areas) ... I'm drifting into the territory of Monty Python's 'What did the Romans ever do for us routine' but my point is that although Europe did a hell of a lot to squick up Africa, some of the problems were there already and the Europeans did provide a basis for some of the processes that are still in place and used today.


luvs2write44:
there is TONS of differeces between eragon and this

I'll take your word for it but at the moment that's not coming through the information you've put up here.

Also - it would really help if you could try to use capitalisation and punctuation in your posts because I'm finding them difficult to follow.

MM

Hapax Legomenon
04-16-2009, 10:53 PM
That depends on how you define "infrastructure" and precisely which European countries we're talking about here. There was no uniform European approach to the governing of African colonies and much of the land grab was more concerned with mineral rights than it was with agriculture. At the same time however, some European countries did work on establishing rule of law, roads, an education system, sanitation (at least in some of the urban areas) ... I'm drifting into the territory of Monty Python's 'What did the Romans ever do for us routine' but my point is that although Europe did a hell of a lot to squick up Africa, some of the problems were there already and the Europeans did provide a basis for some of the processes that are still in place and used today.

I was more talking about stable governing and ability to provide for its own populace in terms of food, but yes, education, sanitation, roads... always two sides of the coin.

See, again how hard it is to make something completely evil?

Red.Ink.Rain
04-16-2009, 10:55 PM
*strangles Paolini for corrupting so many*

Inheritance might seem like it made dragonriders famous, but look at the history of Anne McCafferey's DRAGONRIDERS OF PERN series. It's been famous for a LONG time. In fact, it's so famous, and so popular, that her son has taken over its reigns after she's spent a good part of her life writing its world. How many series do you know of that are passed down like an inheritance, pun definitely intended.

You're right, Frost, but my point in bringing up Paolini was because he is the most recent example of a dragon-rider author. Anne McCafferey definitely had it first, lol.