Advice to women buying a car?

Have your hubby/boyfriend/male friend do the negotiating. No, really. Statistically, dealers will offer a lower price to a man than to a woman, just for walking on the lot.

Become friends with a mechanic, and have them go with you when you're considering buying a used vehicle.

When it comes to buying a car that you want, never let on that you desire the vehicle. This gives you more strength while negotiating.

This sounds so sexist but... when I was thinking about buying a car my mother suggested bringing one of my male cousins with me. She thought the dealer would BS less if there was a male present.

Thirding the "bring a male with while negotiating" suggestion. When I was car shopping, I brought a male friend of mine with me. Even though we told the salesmen that the car was for me and my friend wasn't a relation, every salesman insisted on talking to him, not me. They'd ask me questions about what color I wanted or try to impress me with the fact the car had cup holders.

There's a lot of information online about car models. Before we went to the dealership, we did a lot of research so we knew what to look for and ask. Some sites seemed to have base prices for the optional extras, so it helped to be forewarned when the dealer came back with a price which was way too high. I can't remember the sites - I'm thinking Edmonds or Blue Book?

Pftt. I don't think the dealers give a crap if you are male or female they'll try to screw you either way. My own dad sold me a lemon when he was a used car dealer. If you are looking for a used car pay for the carfax service for a month and run the VIN#'s of each car you are looking at. If you feel like they're screwing you get up and walk out-I'm serious, if they call your name before you get to the door, you can start negotiating- if not you don't want to be there, anyway.

The DH went by himself once- only once to buy a car on his own and he ended up with 2 coupon books for a USED pick up truck- not a big one with a King cab or anything, I'm talking a regular standard sized truck. He owes 2 more years on that damned thing and it isn't worth what we owe so he's stuck. Luckily, it still looks nice and runs but he'd much rather trade it in for a mustang- NOT. Yes, car buying is my LEAST favorite thing to do on the planet.

Goodluck with your article.

A) Do you mean for people who don't know much about cars?

B) Or do you mean for women in facing the sexist things that many dealers try to pull because they are women?

Because B) is a problem that needs to be handled, but I'd write A) as people and not women because women not knowing anything about cars is not a true generalization anymore.

I always take along my friend the mechanic. My husband knows nothing about cars, so the dealers usually BS him. I take the mechanic with me and have him check out the car. Typically the sales people don't bother trying to push crap on him.

If my buddy can't go, I reasearch, research, research. I look up the kind of car I want and how much they typically sell for. Then, I stand my ground. If they won't go for the price I offer, I walk away. They don't want to lose the sale, so normally they will negotiate.

My ex-boyfriend was a finance director for a big city dealership and he taught me that you can always talk a dealer down at least $1500, usually a lot more.
If you are buying a used car and you are not mechanically inclined, take a mechanic or a friend who is.
Try to find a dealership that has at least a 48 hour return policy.

Go to CarMax. I've bought two cars there recently (one for me, and one for my 17yo son), and had great experiences. No negotiating, and not necessary because they already have decent prices. I've never felt condescended to there, either. We'll be going there when it's time to get my daughter a car.

New or used? New, Consumer Reports is required reading. You can also buy a report that shows dealer costs and other info. Used, bring a mechanic. Also, CR publishes specs for most reliable, least reliable and other fun facts about used cars.

Knowledge is power.

for a used car: I was just going to suggest Consumer Reports also, Horace beat me to it. every year, they publish a Buying Guide Issue that contains used vehicle repair reports for the last ten years (it may be 8 years). it's a very good source to inform yourself about what to expect as far as repairs go for a used car. there are also other publications out there that will give you lots of good information on most makes and models.
shop around. look at online ads as well as going to used car dealers. check Kelly Blue Book values. do a Carfax report to check if the vehicle has been in a major accident. (you'll need a VIN number).
if you're buying from a dealer, don't make an offer on your first visit- leave, mull on it, then come back later that day or the next, after you've come up with a price range. when negotiating, stick within your price range, and be firm. if they won't go there, don't be afraid to walk away. if it's a reasonable offer, they won't let you walk off the lot. and if you can't afford it, or it's not worth what they're asking-you don't want it anyway.

the last tip works for buying a new car as well. a dealer will negotiate an offer, and usually bases it on what you say you want your payments to be.(on another note, it's way wiser to go into a dealership w ith your own loan, if you can, Credit Unons are the best) the sales man will ask you what you want to pay, then go inside to 'talk to his manager' he tweaks the numbers and comes back, usually with a higher counter offer. in my one experience buying a new car, this back and forth went on for almost three hours. I was so worn out I almost left. but I knew I could not afford what they were asking. finally- I said so, "I guess I'm just in over my head with this car. I'm so sorry to waste your time. I'm going back to the (other dealership) and make an offer on that little import, it's much more affordable. thank you SO much for your time."
then I turned to leave. 'Ma'am, one second, let me tell the manager that you're leaving."
five minutes later, he made me one last offer, which just happened to be the original offer I had started with three hours before.
sigh
moral is though, know what you're willing to pay, convince the seller of this, and don't let anyone talk you into anything different.

Okay, here are some tips for your article. It's somewhat frustrating being a woman shopping for a vehicle, because the others are right. Dealers WILL treat you differently. I know a lot about cars and work on my own, and you wouldn't believe the horror stories I could tell you about buying and repairing vehicles (like one brake center telling me I needed new CV boots---on a rear wheel drive car. And they wouldn't back down even when I offered to show them where the U-joint was. )

But anyway, back to buying. It's not just a matter of knowing about the vehicle. That's sort of a given. But there are some advantages a woman can give herself when she walks in the door.

1. Take a large amount of cold green cash with you. There is not a car salesman alive who will not want to separate you from that money. Deals can be MUCH more easily had when there are bills to put in the register. Really, truly.

2. Be completely willing to walk away---forever. Let the salesperson chase you to your car when you walk away. Walk away like you would from a guy on the street trying to peddle knock-off Rolexes. It's HARD. It's sort of built into our DNA to be polite and let a person finish talking, which is how we get suckered in to the office and wind up buying something we don't want. Don't settle down. Make them settle UP to what you want. And, if they don't . . . walk away. There are more deals to be had at a different store or on a different day.

3. Call your insurance agent. Find out what the "driving it off the lot" price of the car is. See, here's the thing. The MOMENT you drive a new car off a lot, it loses value. Sometimes a substantial amount of money. I worked for an insurance adjuster and I can't tell you the number of people who totaled a car right after buying it and wound up with less than it would cost to pay it off. So, call your insurance agent and find out what the REPLACEMENT cost of the car would be if a cement truck fell over on it an hour after you drove it off the lot. That's your maximum price to pay---wherever you go. Because if you can't replace it a week later for the money they're asking, they're asking too much.

4. Don't buy a brand new production car the first year it's out. A prototype vehicle often takes a year or two to work out the "kinks" in design--unless it's an upgrade of an already established car. The new models are fine for those who are mechanics, but if the most you know about cars is the phone number of your mechanic, go for a second or third release of a model.

5. Go over to "Carsdirect.com" or "automotive.com" and look at the resale value of the previous years of the car. They're pretty good about predicting what the value of the car will be based on a variety of things---from prior model year engine wear to carpeting and upholstery and how fast the clear coat scratches. It's a good place to visit.

6. Negotiate from "dealer cost" upward, not from MSRP down. Of course, that means you have to FIND OUT the dealer cost. But that's pretty easy to do. A quick Google will tell you and then you're armed. You can also visit the AAA website to find some manufacturer's invoices. Keep in mind that the dealership is going to try to pad the cost by claiming they have fees. But those fees are often REFUNDED by manufacturers, to the tune of 3%-5% of the list price. The "lot fees" some dealers claim are ON TOP of those costs, so you're basically tipping them an extra 2%-5% over what they get back.

Just a few tips from a vehicle purchaser from way back.

With used cars, seriously, if you don't know much about what can be done to a car (and how it can/ can't be repaired) take along someone who does know. Or, if possible, educate yourself.

I just test drove a car, and because I've watched my brother the mechanic (who also works at a collision shop) I knew to check for replaced body panels. When I pulled down the cloth stuff in the trunk to check underneath, I found that someone had replaced the panel, badly (bad weld, esp. when compared to the manufacturer weld on the other side) AND whoever had done so had used Great Stuff Expanding Foam in that area, perhaps to deaden noise or stop a leak. Yeah-- that's great.

You've got to have someone who knows what they're doing esp. when buying a used car. I looked at another car and checked the oil... there was CLEARLY antifreeze in the oil. That's an engine that's dead, or will be soon. That's be a nice surprise-- pay 6K for a car only to have the engine seize within a year.

I know to check these things, so I'm comfortable going alone. But the funny thing is, I just can't see spending 8k on a car without my brother looking at it so I know what I'm getting. Kind of like not buying a house until you get an inspection.

Oh, and yeah, walk away. Don't be pushed into something. In fact, my advice-- test drive the car, talk price, then GO HOME to think about it. The car will likely still be there in a day or so. (If not, there are other cars!) This is a HUGE amount of money (for most people) so why wouldn't you take time to think about it?

I've walked away from three cars in the last few months-- it gets easier every time. Well, except for the part where I'm still driving a car that's on it's last miles. Meh. It's actually become something of an adventure-- how far will the dead car go?!?! ;-)

Greenwolf103 said:

This is for you savvy car-buying folks. Myself, I am clueless about buying cars. The one and only time I bought one, it ended up being a lemon.

This is for an article I am writing...

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I'm not sure how you plan to enlighten readers if you are "clueless about buying cars." Short of quoting posts in this thread (in particular Cathy's excellent advice), forty-eight hours doesn't seem like enough time to study the subject thoroughly and write a well-founded piece.

That's just my opinion, of course, which probably has about as much mileage as that lemon you bought.

ETA: Maybe your slant could be how not to shop for cars, and you can use your experience to warn readers how best to avoid the same mistakes you made with your purchase.

"Ups", control, mean-ness, car knowledge, leaving, etc.

Hi,
This is my very first post here and I could not pass this one up!

I. CONTROL
II. SAMPLE MEETING


CONTROL - control, intimidation, responses, mean-ness, physical cues, etc, UPs, Women and Men, psychological power in numbers, being DONE!

A few things enter into this process. Sexism does NOT apply here. YOUR natural woman's range of emotion is VERY effective, just don't be afraid to apply it to a stranger!!! IMPERATIVE! My wife is scarier than me! (Yet skinny and feminine...what gives?) Her CHARM is very effective too.

1. DON'T GO ALONE, and take your closest male person that you can "huddle with. Take a truly knowledgeable mechanical type. Usually need a guy. Don't let lack of knowledge cost you 10k! AND if possible take a close girlfriend who will play the game and gang up on the dealerships people!!

2. Ups and CONTROL

If you walk onto a car lot you are X number of % points more likely to buy a car than emailers, callers, etc, and you are called an "Up".
Salesmen are assigned these 'ups' in rotation because the odds for a sale are better.



SAMPLE MEETING

Take control as soon as the first salesman approaches you!!!!

Salesman - blah, blah, I'm blah blah, we have some new blah.....

You - LOOK exactly like you would when rolling your eyes about something your husband said and your friend and you thought it was stupid!!
Blow the guy off like he was your last concern. Find another salesperson later! A DIFFERENT ONE! The first one will leave if you are mean enough!

Your Mechanic- should naturally dislike the salesman, if not, make sure he acts like a car salesman beat him when he was a child!!!

3. Look at more than one car and make a few of requests for written quotes. Make them WORK. This applies even if you don't want but one of the cars at this dealership. One written item is an exact price quote "from this dealer"...before you "check nearby dealers!".

Give them a chance to irritate you once you are inside, grab your purse, look whoever you are dealing with in the face, and say, "let's go hon, (Bob, Tom, Bo Cephas, whatever) THESE PEOPLE AREN'T LISTENING! My wife is a master!

NOW LEAVE! once should be enough.

4. When you come back, the next day, be all smiley and ask for the salesman you want and for a thorough test drive and rundown on the car you really want!

Now use your insanely effective charm, (the man you brought aint go it!)

Huddle with your person/people. Ask for an offer. If they won't give it you can do one of 2 things. Leave again. or make a lowball offer!

If dealerships won't give you BIG discounts NOW, something is very wrong!
This is VERY fun and many of these salesmen DESERVE it. (not all)

My friend just spent an entire weekend and earned $5,500 or 25% of an already reduced sticker price. That was on an economy car! He and his wife worked it together. He did the final haggle. She did the pre-haggle pouting and disgusted looks! I'm serious!


also check www.carcomplaints.com

I am very, very sorry for the length of this, and hope you will read, edit and USE some of it in life and in print. Please let me know if any of it makes it into publication!

Thanks,

Pete Burtstone

Use caution with CarFax.

I watched CBC Marketplace a few months ago and they placed CarFax on the level with a scam.

In the program, they test drove several cars off a dealer's lot and once they were away from the dealership, had a mechanic who was experienced in spotting body repairs that had been done on the vehicle (repairs that were done so neatly that the average person wouldn't notice them). All the used cars they drove had clean CarFax reports. Most of them had probably been in accidents, and some had obvious frame damage when you crawled underneath.

Marketplace is obviously looking for a good story, like any other news program, but they tend to give both sides of the story a fair chance, and well, representitives from CarFax couldn't explain why they had 'misplaced' so much information.

...just my two sense.

> The audience is women (no age specified) and it's essentially
> a "guide" for women who want to buy a car.

a) Buy a good Car Guide. Knowledge is power. Always. There exist car guides that goes from model to model and discusses the pros and cons of each, then assign a grade. I would NOT buy a car without it. It contains good negotiation strategies, dealer prices (the price dealers pay) and much more. Know what you are looking for and select 3 - 5 models you want to try out at your own pace.

b) Know how sales work. Sales people need to fill their monthly quotas, and most dealers have quarterly constests amongst their staff. Picking a young salesman with a family, and shop in the last week of the month. You can easily spot them by the photos on their desk. They are eager to close their quota and are more willing to offer you a substantial cut. Ask for all the trimmings beforehand and make your decision at home. Scotchguard? Paint protection? Security System? Ask for brochures and prices ahead of time and negotiate them as part of the overall price. Otherwise, the day you sign up, you will have to make snap decisions on those items in the Sales Manager's office.

-cb

Lease.

For used &/or what they call "program" cars program always ask the salesman what the repair history on the vehicle is. I'm thinking they have to disclose if asked. They, at least, would have documentation if it was repaired under warranty or by any dealership mechanic. Not sure about work by other mechanics. They should be able to punch in the VIN # and look it up on computer.

For used, there might also be something in the glove box that shows name & address of previous owner and they may be willing to tell you history of vehicle if you call them.

Plan NOT to buy on your first round. Tell saleman you are checking out vehicles at several dealerships - you aren't married to any one model, rather are looking for the best deal for your pocketbook. Say "Give me your best deal on this vehicle because I'm making one round and taking the best offer I get".

Makes notes on each vehicle so you can compare. Also you may want to check computer later for blue book prices.

When you make up your mind about which one you want, go back and make an offer (even though you may have to pay the price he quoted you need to try)-- "Okay this is the one I've decided on if we can get right on the price. Can you come off this amount?" Or "Will you accept $___." Remember you are the one in control and can walk away at any time, at least until he accepts your specific offer or until you say "yes, I'll take it".

I detest car shopping and yes, they do treat women differently. I once made a salesman so angry he slammed his notebook down and stormed from the room. I decided on one and told him I'd take it if we could get right on the price. He didn't come off the sticker price one red cent and was infuriated when I said I wouldn't pay sticker price for any car. This has been more than 20 years ago. Maybe they do things differently now - I'd just never ever heard of anyone paying full sticker price.

My husband is a car salesman, and I think you've gotten some great advice here! I would definitely go in the last day of the month (although last week is okay, too, if you're shopping around).

Salesmen are taught to deliberately confuse price and payments using your trade-in value and credit. They will fight tooth and nail to keep from telling you a definite full price. They want to get you talking about payments and how your credit score makes it difficult for them to go below a certain price per month.

They also understand that most people walk into a dealership wanting to pay a certain amount but can probably squeeze out another 5-15%. So if they do force you somehow to tell them what you "can pay every month," tell them 15% less than what you actually want to pay. When they talk you up to a higher payment, they might actually relax enough to stop trying to up the price. Be sure, though, that you're initially offering 15% less than what the car is actually WORTH, not just 15% less than you can pay.

He also suggests parking your car a couple of blocks away, so they can't look it over and start telling you how worthless it is and how they're doing you a huge favor by allowing you to pay 25% extra for the new car to cover the amount you still owe on your trade.

Good luck with your article! For what it's worth, I sold an article to American Iron Magazine before I had ever been within ten feet of a motorcycle. Write what you know and all that, but if you can offer to write and then learn what you need to know to write it--why not? In freelancing, if you only write what you already know, it's hard to sell enough to make it worthwhile.

Research all cars, specific models and mileage you want on Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds.com. Set your starting price to be several thousand below that value and don't give back more than one thousand. Refuse to look at models you haven't researched. Do your carfax report on each car you are intrested in. Insist on taking it to be checked out by a mechanic, this is the only way to be sure you don't get a lemon. Only negotiate an out the door price which is the total of the car, any fees, and less your trade.

If financing, know in advance the dollar amount you can afford to make payments on, never negotiate by monthly payments. Obtain financing of your own in advance and only use dealer financing if they can make a better deal.

Know that almost everything they say to you is a lie, smile and nod, but don't accept it.

If you feel that they are not dealing with you or are keeping you there to break down your defences, then walk away, no matter where in the deal making process you are.

Never pay up front money to hold a car you like, most dealers will not give it back unless you buy a car from them.

Research your trade so you know what its value is. Drive your trade in to the dealer so they can make their own assesment.

Hey!

Greenwolf103 said:

Thank you SO MUCH everyone! You guys are da bomb! I totally appreciate your time in giving advice on this subject. Merci.




But that's all a part of the learning process. I agreed to do the article because I knew it would help me to learn about these things, myself. And the advice here has been awesome.

Click to expand...

My overly long advice is below a few posts.

I REALLY would love to see how this all turns out!

In fact just go buy a car this weekend and tell me how it goes ok?

Pete