Contacting/Creating A Subculture

dirtsider

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I was watching a documentary over the weekend and it got me thinking. How would someone go about contacting/finding people in a subculture, such as Goths or the Vampire scene, that's essentially underground or at least not that in-your-face about things. In my story, one of my MC's is a mage and therefore part of said mage subculture. But the other one isn't part of the subculture. The only person she really knows is her friend, the other MC.

On one hand, the mage MC will be introducing her to this subculture which means I need some ideas of what she (the MC new to the scene) would encounter going to these places for the first time.

On the other, there will be a period where the mage MC will be locked up/indisposed for crimes he didn't commit so the other MC has to do some investigating on her own which means contacting people.

Any suggestions or places to start looking?
 

AngelRoseDarke

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I'm trying to follow you here, and I'm going to give this a shot.

I'm a Goth/Vampire, and yes, we tend to stay out of the public eye. We really aren't too hard to find though. Usually we hang out at Goth nightclubs and coffee houses. The clubs aren't well advertised, but there are usually rumors about their locations. They typically aren't private, so getting inside is pretty easy.

Ask more questions, and I'll be glad to help anyway I can.
 

dirtsider

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Thanks!! You got it pretty much spot on right so far. My questions are two-fold. I want to know more about how someone new to the scene would react/see. Then I would like to know more about how someone who is a regular to the scene would see the same club. Is that too confusing?

Ok, so how would someone find a Goth club or coffee house, for starters? What would this person find if they showed up to one? One of my MC's is new to the scene so I want to convey how someone like that would react. She's a bartender but she tends bar at a restaurant/bar, rather than a club.

Are there back rooms where people can talk more privately instead of shouting over the music at these clubs?

My subculture is about mages, not Goths/Vampires, but I think the scene would be close enough for me to adapt things as I go along.

Thanks again for your help.
 

blackrose602

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Hi, let me see if I can help a little based on my own experiences. I'm part of the Goth/Vampire subculture which, in New Orleans, happens to include mages as well.

I'm from Orlando originally, and knew absolutely no one in New Orleans but the decidedly un-Goth people I moved with. I found the scene there through a series of lucky coincidences. When I went on a scouting trip to look for an apartment and a job, we happened to take a paranormal walking tour. When she heard I was moving there, our tour guide offered me a job in her Voodoo shop in the French Quarter.

As you can imagine, I had a lot of quirky customers. One became my boyfriend, and he introduced me to the NOLA goth scene. It was probably easier for me to be accepted since I am goth, but it was still a fairly lengthy process of introductions, club visits, and slowly building trust.

As the PP mentioned, goth places really aren't hidden or private. They're just not well-advertised, and tend to be located in funky, run-down (seedy) neighborhoods off the beaten path. So depending on her background/comfort zone, your newbie MC would probably be some combination of spooked/skeptical/disdainful on the way TO the club.

Exactly what you'd find inside depends on the type of club/coffeehouse. There's almost always some kind of back room with lower volume and a chilled out atmosphere. For example, one of my favorite NOLA clubs was laid out like this: The main club was downstairs. Front room had the bar, pool tables, some pub tables. Connected to that was an open back room that was mostly dance floor, with some small tables and benches along the walls. Loud, stompy industrial music, had to shout to be heard.

Upstairs was an entirely different vibe. Plush overstuffed couches and chairs. A huge bed in the corner draped with soft fabrics and lots of cushy throw pillows. Another bar with a few bar stools. The music was soft and relaxing, and the bar did as much business in coffee and hot tea as in alcohol.

The thing is, anybody could walk in the front door downstairs. Anybody could technically go upstairs too, but there was no sign or advertising, so you had to be "in the know." That has been my experience at pretty much every goth club I've ever been to, which means that the main club is "mostly" regulars with the occasional tourist/curious local, but the back rooms are exclusively regulars.

What your newbie "sees" is going to have a lot to do with her background and outlook on life. The people tend to be colorful and larger than life. Multicolored hair, very revealing outfits, cross dressing, bondage gear, lots of makeup (on both guys and girls)...how does she feel about those things?

And how does she fit in? Does she look like she belongs? Is she dressed similarly, yet not appear to be copying something she doesn't understand? Is she nervous? Regulars know when someone new comes in, and all eyes will be on her. We often come across as pretentious, but we're really not (well, most of us aren't anyway). It's just that a goth club is sort of "our space" where we're normal and the rest of the world is weird, completely polar opposite from the real world, so we're protective of that. Therefore, we're a little guarded with new people until we get to know them. If she's any variation of shy, intimidated, repulsed, or disdainful, it's going to make for an extremely awkward evening for her...I had a friend who was actually quite goth, but he was really shy, and when I introduced him to the New Orleans scene, it took over a month to convince everyone he wasn't a narc! Once she builds trust though, she'll have friends for life.

From the perspective of your insider, the club is home. Plain and simple. He'll know most of the people there, and they'll be like family to him. Of course, it's a rather dysfunctional family, so there's always in-fighting and cliques and whatnot, but they tend to be short-lived, and in general, everyone's on the same side. There's always a hierarchy/pecking order to some extent, but generally not snobbish or rude. He'll spend a lot of time getting ready to go out at night (hey, corsets don't have speed laces, after all), and it will be late. Really late. Even in Orlando, the goth clubs don't open till at least 10, and nobody shows up till midnight. In towns where bars don't close at 2 am, things start even later.

Make sure your newbie works herself into the scene a bit before she needs to go investigating on her own. If they don't know/trust her, forget it. She won't get a single word out of anyone, no matter how much they like/want to help the locked up MC. They may band together and try to get him out, but they won't work with her unless they trust her. If she has that rapport, though, she's golden.

Whew, that's a lot! Let me know if you have more questions!
 

dirtsider

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Wow. Thanks, both of you. That does help a lot. Trust me, if I have more questions, I'll definitely let both of you know.

My newbie MC won't be going to the scene right away. I already have her working her way into the scene through the other MC. And the funny thing is, that I already had one person contact the mage MC who wouldn't let her meet the contact right away. Because - of all things - the contact doesn't know her and therefore, doesn't trust her.

But both your descriptions helps out a lot with the clubs. And by the time my MCs actually make it to the clubs, my newbie MC will have gotten over the worst of the disdain and will probably be more spooked than anything else. She'll have seen some really freaky things but now she's going to meet some more weird people. On the other hand, she's pretty outgoing and, since she's a bartender, she can probably talk about drinks and swap bar stories.
 

AngelRoseDarke

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Black Rose has it down for you. The scene up here in TN is pretty much the same. In fact, the club Rose described is laid out almost exactly like my favorite place, Fiction. The family atmosphere among the Goths is totally dead on. We will band together to do anything for our friends. However, if we don't trust someone, they will be given the cold shoulder.

Good luck with your story. If you need anything else, just give a shout.
 

Willowmound

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I'm a Goth/Vampire, and yes, we tend to stay out of the public eye.

Not to mention, out of the sun!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I was part of a subculture in the nineties -- the rave scene, before it got mainstream. There wasn't any "us" for you to contact. We were people liking the same drugs and soundeffects, no membership required, no secret handshake.

It sounds like you (the OP) are describing a club more than a subculture.
 
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dirtsider

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Yes, I was asking about a club, Willow. But I was also asking about a subculture. Think of it like this. Going to a Goth Club is like going to a Renn Faire. Ok, a Faire might be more accessible for the outsider but they're close enough for my analogy.

For the average person, s/he'll go to a Renn Faire, s/he'll have a fun time and leave with some trinkets and good memories. (Or not, depending on the person...)

But for people who really like the scene, they'll start going more often and they start to meet people. That's when they find out that the merchants travel all over the country to sell their goods at these faires. Same thing with the jousters and falconers who go to the shows and do their demos. Then there are the artists and craftsmen who make the goods or clothing involved. Most of them are either part of a re-enacting group like the SCA or Markland or know people who are. Like Dark Rose said, they're a big family whose main chance to meet up with their fellow rennies are at these events.

So there's a lot more going on under the radar than the average person realizes.
 

Willowmound

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What I've always wondered is why you call celebrations of the medieval "Renaissance Fairs". But that is probably for another thread...
 

dirtsider

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Well, most Renn Faires are set (usually) in Elizabethan periods which is generally part of the Renaissance.
 

Willowmound

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Oh, well in that case they're aptly named. I only know about this from television.
 

dirtsider

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No prob. You did nudge me in the right direction in how to phrase my next set of questions...

Ok, what other things do Goth/Vampires do, other than go to clubs/coffee houses? I know when I was more into the re-enacting that people would get together to have stitch and bitch nights to make their garb or have parties at someone's home or talk about brewing. Anything like that, meaning non-club nights?
 

AngelRoseDarke

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Oh yeah. We often get together at home and hang out. Those that are into magick might perform some rituals. We'll play games, listen to music, and share poetry. We'll also go to the mall together sometimes. We pretty much do everything other friends do, just darker.
 

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You can very easily contact people onlien even in the more unusual sub-subcultures (e.g. "real" vampire). If you seem authentic you will get into chats and emails exchanges and invited to get togethers.
 

AngelRoseDarke

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You can very easily contact people onlien even in the more unusual sub-subcultures (e.g. "real" vampire). If you seem authentic you will get into chats and emails exchanges and invited to get togethers.

In all honesty, most of the time we know who the fakes are but we let them in anyway. It's entertaining, and most of us figure that they might actually learn something. The hard part about finding real vampires is that a lot of the sites are not run or frequented by vamps. They are people who are just pretending. I could direct you to my sites if you'd like.
 

blackrose602

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I second everything AngelRoseDarke said about getting together outside of clubs. We really do live pretty normal lives, and hang out just like anyone else. We just have a darker aesthetic.

I would warn you to be cautious if you start trying to contact the subculture online though. Keep in mind that while the vast majority of us are harmless, there are some really disturbed people out there. Maintain your common sense in goth/vamp online communities just like you would anywhere else, and be even more guarded in the extreme sub-subculture communities.
 

dirtsider

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Thanks for the warnings. Always good to have. I would prefer to go to sites that you suggest rather than try on my own since you know what you're talking about. Saves me time and trouble with the worst of the lot.
 
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