World Building?

mreddin · Jun 4, 2005

What do you folks advise for keeping track of characters, back story, history, gods/goddesses, legends and geography when in "world building" mode? I have a fantasy MS running around 110k words at the moment, not quite finished with the first draft so I'm expecting 125k to 150k as the final wordcount before revision time. I introduce backstory here and there, mainly where it offers insight to the plot and "how we got here". The more content that gets added, the greater the potential of introducing contradictions that will confuse the reader.

So do you create a world "bible" that lists all the major places, people and things? I read before JMS wrote Babylon5, he plotted out the history of the galaxy both forward and backwards, before drilling down into the timeline he wanted his series to cover. Once he drilled into the timeline, he created the major "Story arc" that spanned the time line, then introduced a series of sub-arcs within the main one. He went back to his bible and referenced history as needed. Sounds like a good technique but a great deal of work. How do you organize something like this? I could probably write a little application to hold that kind of information. Right now when referencing something, I need to find the page I first mention the subject to make sure I'm remaining consistent and this wastes a great deal of time!

Sometimes even clothing is an issue. When my character Tobiath wakes up, he certainly better come home with the same articles of clothing he left with, otherwise people might start talking!

Mike

DaveKuzminski · Jun 4, 2005

Provided you're doing it with a program that has a search capability, it doesn't matter too much what order you keep it in.

However, I keep mine mostly categorized and alphabetized so that I can avoid wandering away from what I'm interested in when I'm just scrolling through.

I set up sections with Characters, Vessels, Animal names unless they're speaking characters, Weapons and capabilities, Signals, Awards, Ranks, Devices or Inventions, Clothing and appropriate styles or colors, Plant types, Place names and relation or direction to other places, and anything else that may become relevant. I also keep track of when those appear in either volume or chronological sequence, sometimes both.

Nateskate · Jun 4, 2005

mreddin said:
What do you folks advise for keeping track of characters, back story, history, gods/goddesses, legends and geography when in "world building" mode? I have a fantasy MS running around 110k words at the moment, not quite finished with the first draft so I'm expecting 125k to 150k as the final wordcount before revision time. I introduce backstory here and there, mainly where it offers insight to the plot and "how we got here". The more content that gets added, the greater the potential of introducing contradictions that will confuse the reader.

So do you create a world "bible" that lists all the major places, people and things? I read before JMS wrote Babylon5, he plotted out the history of the galaxy both forward and backwards, before drilling down into the timeline he wanted his series to cover. Once he drilled into the timeline, he created the major "Story arc" that spanned the time line, then introduced a series of sub-arcs within the main one. He went back to his bible and referenced history as needed. Sounds like a good technique but a great deal of work. How do you organize something like this? I could probably write a little application to hold that kind of information. Right now when referencing something, I need to find the page I first mention the subject to make sure I'm remaining consistent and this wastes a great deal of time!

Sometimes even clothing is an issue. When my character Tobiath wakes up, he certainly better come home with the same articles of clothing he left with, otherwise people might start talking!

Mike

I have one notebook, but some people have many for each book. It's so easy to lose track of little things, like color of eyes. Blue-brown?

You need to keep tracks of names, and places. (You have to draw a rudimentary map, so you know if you turn right or left to go south from from Rivendale.)

You have to have at least a novice idea how long a person can walk in one day, or travel by horseback. (If you have a journey)

If you get to Morder three days after leaving the Shire, then you have a conflict with your map.

I'll tell you, I've encountered so many possible conflicts, simply because in scene one they lost their backpack. Well, how did he suddenly have his knife in chapter nine, if it was in the backpack?

The better notes you keep, the less trouble you find yourself in down the road.

mreddin · Jun 4, 2005

Nateskate said:
You have to have at least a novice idea how long a person can walk in one day, or travel by horseback. (If you have a journey)

If you get to Morder three days after leaving the Shire, then you have a conflict with your map.

I'll tell you, I've encountered so many possible conflicts, simply because in scene one they lost their backpack. Well, how did he suddenly have his knife in chapter nine, if it was in the backpack?

The better notes you keep, the less trouble you find yourself in down the road.

At least you can look up those details if your unsure, and those are exactly the issues I'm facing. In the span of several chapters the lead character takes a horse to a destination then walks to the "big city". In my mind I designed the distance to be nearly equidistant, yet my description of the journey by horseback over half a day, yet the same distance to the city took only an hour or two on foot. Obviously a logistical problem that requires a geographical adjustment. However, in doing so aspects of the plot may need to be altered to account for advancing enemies.

There is a scene where a mischievious imp and wayward wolf pup are left in a backpack slung across a horse. I have the kid hand the pup over to his mentor for safe keeping a little later, realizing after I wrote the scene that he never took the backpack with him. Doh!

sunandshadow · Jun 4, 2005

It depends what's important to your story. History's not important to the stuff I write, so I don't make a timeline beforehand. Biology and mythology are important, so I may make charts of the pantheon and their personalities, epithets, abilities, etc., and punnett squares explaining inheritance of particular traits. But I haven't written a sequel to anything yet, so I haven't found any need to make worldbuilding bible for any setting yet.

DaveKuzminski · Jun 5, 2005

Also, keep in mind that people tend to congregate in groups or live near such centers of activity. In past centuries, many people lived within a half-day's walk to the nearest town or village. That made it possible to walk to the nearest town or village, do their business, and return home by dark. Distances stretched out only where and when better transportation became available.

mreddin · Jun 5, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
Also, keep in mind that people tend to congregate in groups or live near such centers of activity. In past centuries, many people lived within a half-day's walk to the nearest town or village. That made it possible to walk to the nearest town or village, do their business, and return home by dark. Distances stretched out only where and when better transportation became available.

Yes a good reminder, thank you. My particular setting takes place in a cluster of islands, so no town is more than a day's journey fortunately. The towns are structured to be near logical locations (i.e. good shelted harbors for fishing and merchant access, fertile fields for farming, etc...)

Tirjasdyn · Jun 21, 2005

I've tried software but none of it has everything I needed.

I've got a small three ring notebook(an old day timer actually) with lots of blank paper and tabs. In the front is a year calander for (currently 2005, to keep my writing schedule in) then there are tabs for:

Main Characters
Supporting Characters
Items
Locations
Glossary
Magic System
Races
Flora
Fauna
History
Calander
Maps
Diagrams
Ideas
Exercises
Outlines
Story Arcs
Reference
Sketches

There are pockets on the inside for scraps of stuff and I have the world map and Timeline inserted into the front and back slip covers for easy reference.

It's portable and easy to get to. I use Keynote (freeware) to get my story together (research, outlines etc), Ywriter (freeware) to write the actual story. And Word(expensive ware) to format and do final edits.

I keep one binder and one file folder (computer) for each story. I carry a thumb drive on my key chain so I can work as needed.

Yes I'm insane.

Vomaxx · Jun 21, 2005

I sometimes wonder if the readers can be expected to remember things that the authors have to write down in notebooks. We should try to keep things simple, I think.

DaveKuzminski · Jun 21, 2005

Well, it just depends upon whether you're writing a single standalone book or an epic-length serial. With a single book of reasonable length, you won't need many notes.

However, with sequels and serials, you will need notes, lots of them, in order to keep everything straight. If your world is different in some ways from the only one we truly have experienced, then you'll need notes to keep track of all the nifty things you throw in your world. For instance, I have a lighted forest, a lighted sea, and even a lighted glacier, all created by genetic experiments using glow-in-the-dark materials that we see in lightning bugs and some other creatures. Still, if any other characters encounter those places, it helps to keep notes so there's consistency between each encounter. If not, then the reader needs an explanation as to why it's different. A port in one place had docks on one side of a land spit, but in the later visit there are docks on both sides so one character points out that increased trade brought about the new docks. So, in one explanation, I let the reader know that the port is prospering and growing as a result.

Tirjasdyn · Jun 21, 2005

Vomaxx said:
I sometimes wonder if the readers can be expected to remember things that the authors have to write down in notebooks. We should try to keep things simple, I think.

Another writer once gave me the advice that your reader doesn't need to know everything you know about the novel, but you better know it.

Saanen · Jun 21, 2005

Also don't forget that fast readers can finish books in a matter of hours, while we spend months or years writing the things! It's easy to forget eye color of a character over that amount of time.

I use a spiral notebook to keep notes on characters and world details.

skyi001 · Jun 21, 2005

I have software that organizes chapters for me, so I use some of those chapters for housekeeping...characters, magic, timeline, seasons, maps, etc. It's a simple matter for me to just open up the section I want and scan for the necessary information.

I used to have Microsoft Binder, which was a great tool for writers, I thought. I haven't installed it yet on my new computer, tho. It combines different programs into one "binder" , so if you have, for instance, a map written in Paint, a spreadsheet of characters written in Excel and chapters in Word, you can keep them all together in one "document" and just flip through them just like you would a binder.

Diana Hignutt · Jun 22, 2005

Personally, I try to keep it all in my head as much as possible, but I do have an exceptional memory. Now, I'm not saying I don't draw maps and keep notes, but I do try to keep them to a minimum. I write a fairly complex story too. I'm currently working on book three of my trilogy, and when I don't remember something from books one or two, I just go back and read the parts I have a question about. I get to know my characters really well in my head before they hit the page, and most of my mythical creatures are based as much as possible on my researches into Keltic folklore and metaphysics.

Diana Hignutt
Author of Empress of Clouds (Behler), ForeWord Magazine 2004 Book of the Year Award Finalist for Science Fiction, 2005 IPPY Award Semi-Finalist for Science Fiction/Fantasy, and a 2005 Spectrum Award Nominee.

DaveKuzminski · Jun 22, 2005

I must admit that I don't draw maps because I often find those too restricting. By that I mean that it doesn't take much for a map to become invalid once a new idea comes about. Case in point, I needed a place for some exiles to relocate to and set up their own kingdom. However, this need didn't come about until deep into the overall story. Had I drawn all the continents early in the work, there wouldn't have been a place for them to go.

On the other hand, I find it difficult to sometimes keep geographic relationships in perspective all the time, so I may be creating a different problem for myself.

What I'd really like to find is a software program that can design a world's continents.

Christine N. · Jun 22, 2005

I'm with Diana- I do the same thing. But I found when I was writing the second in my series that I did need to go back and dig up some details - eye color was one, and the name of some horse was another. Big things I remember, little things I forget. LOL.

Pthom · Jun 22, 2005

I don't draw maps, either... Hammond (and the USGS) did it for me already--and their maps are a lot more complete than I needed.

I did, however, feel compelled to draw up plans for the habitat my characters inhabit before they return to Earth...and that has been invaluable in keeping track of where people can and cannot go, to work out the physics of simulated gravity, determine whether the place is overcrowded...etc.

DragonHeart · Jun 23, 2005

The amount of time and effort I spend worldbuilding depends on how many novels/short stories/whatever are going to be based in that world.

For my current WIP, which is a stand alone novel, I only keep basic notes on the main characters and major locations. I have relevent notes on culture, clothing, and language, but I don't go out of my way to develop every detail if it's not necessary to the plot.

I also have a huge epic in development as well, and as far as worldbuilding is concerned, I want to have a complete world before I even start writing the books. For this project I'm going to have complete notes about anything and everything imaginable, from maps to history to language. I know for the scale I want the research and development is going to take years, but I know it's going to be worth it. I'll probably keep three copies of all my world notes: a hard copy, a copy on my computer, and one burned to a CD-R.

~DragonHeart~

Diana Hignutt · Jun 24, 2005

DragonHeart said:
The amount of time and effort I spend worldbuilding depends on how many novels/short stories/whatever are going to be based in that world.

For my current WIP, which is a stand alone novel, I only keep basic notes on the main characters and major locations. I have relevent notes on culture, clothing, and language, but I don't go out of my way to develop every detail if it's not necessary to the plot.
~DragonHeart~

That's exactly right. To me, the story decides how much world building detail is required. For example, King's Eye of the Dragon, is very basic, to the point of being almost generic as far as world building details go, yet the story is perfect. In my first novel I tried to keep the world building to a minimum. I wanted the story to be about the characters. I wanted them to be realistic and human, and frankly, the focus. I still had to draw up a map for my own reference and name the places they went on their quest, but I didn't want to make the emphasis my world. I find books that conisder the world or its history the focus to be boring. The Silmarillion is a good example of this. It's almost unreadable. Sure, I read it once, but I read The Hobbit and LOTR a dozen times. Now, the second book in my trilogy, demanded more customs and history to forward the story. This way, my readers get to learn more about my world as they go--to the benefit of the story (I hope).

Diana Hignutt
Author of Empress of Clouds (Behler), a 2004 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Finalist for Science Fiction, a 2005 IPPY Award Semi-Finalist for Science Fiction/Fantasy, and a 2005 Spectrum Award Nominee. "Commendably brisk...superior fantasy fiction...(a) workmanlike effort--Publishers Weekly.

JerseyGirl1962 · Jun 24, 2005

For my WIP...

...I've been using software called WriteItNow.

It's very nice in that you can keep track of a lot of different things including characters, notes, etc., etc. They're all in little tabs across the top of the screen.

Naturally, being lazy, I haven't used everything yet, lol. I've had the software for a little over a year, it was recently upgraded, and it's only NOW that I'm starting to think, well, yeah, how about using all of the stuff in it.

Well, not all of the stuff. Character generators, eh. :Shrug:

Don't need it. There's also stuff pertaining to different psychological scores. I looked at it and came away totally confused, so I don't use that.

Since I can't afford to pay to use Word on my home computer, I opted for this software, which provided a lot of what I was looking for. That, and I guess I never liked Word (having used Word Perfect for many, many years), so I guess I like to use something that doesn't remind me that I'm at the office.

My guess is you could also try using a spreadsheet with separate sheets for the different things you want to keep track of...

But ultimately, I think it comes down to what you're comfortable with, whether it's something simple or more complex.

Good luck with your writing!

~Nancy

Tirjasdyn · Jun 24, 2005

http://www.tranglos.com/free/keynote.html

Keynote is a note software with the ability of treepad plus some. It does tabs with either tree structures or just plain word processing. It works with wordweb too.

I keep all my outlines in it, my notes, my todo lists(since the tree hierarchy uses check boxes).

It has a word count at the bottom to if you want to write in it.

World Building?

mreddin

Dreamer

DaveKuzminski

Preditors & Editors

Nateskate

mreddin

Dreamer

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

DaveKuzminski

Preditors & Editors

mreddin

Dreamer

Tirjasdyn

Outline Maven

Vomaxx

DaveKuzminski

Preditors & Editors

Tirjasdyn

Outline Maven

Saanen

skyi001

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

DaveKuzminski

Preditors & Editors

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover

Pthom

Word butcher

DragonHeart

Oerba Yun Fang

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)

Tirjasdyn

Outline Maven