The Thin Blue Line gets a little more so.

nighttimer

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Just in case anyone thinks being a cop in America is no big deal, here's a sobering reminder that they still do one of the most dangerous jobs possible.
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OAKLAND, Calif. - Three police officers are dead and a fourth in grave condition after gunfire at a traffic stop on Saturday led to a massive manhunt that ended in a shootout and the suspect's death, Oakland police said.

Two officers were shot in the first incident just after 1 p.m. after they stopped a suspect's vehicle in east Oakland, said Oakland police spokesman Jeff Thomason. One of those officers later died.

The suspect fled the scene on foot into a nearby neighborhood, police said, leading to an intense manhunt by dozens of Oakland police, California Highway Patrol officers and Alameda County sheriff deputies. Streets were roped off and an entire area of east Oakland closed to traffic.

At about 3:30 p.m. officers, acting on an anonymous tip, found the suspect, who had barricaded himself in an apartment building, police said.

Police said the suspect, 27-year-old Lovelle Mixon, of Oakland, fired an assault rifle at officers who came into the building to arrest him. Two officers were killed and a third was grazed by a bullet, police said.

Acting Oakland police Chief Howard Jordan said police returned fire, killing Mixon.

The slain officers were identified as Sgt. Mark Dunakin, 40, who was killed at the first shooting. The two members of the SWAT team who were killed at the second location were Sgt. Ervin Romans, 43, and Sgt. Daniel Sakai, 35. Officer John Hege, 41, is in grave condition.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said it was a tragic day for police officers. "All four officers dedicated their lives to public safety and selflessly worked to protect the people of Oakland," he said in a statement. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those lost, the Oakland Police Department and law enforcement officers throughout California during this difficult time."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29817606

Three officers dead and quite possibly a fourth as well. This is a true tragedy.
 

Zoombie

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My heart goes out to them.

I hope their families can pull through, and I hope that the rest of the force remains as (mostly) stalwart and true to their ideals as the police officers I know.
 

Fullback

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Being a police officer is no more dangerous than driving. The fatality rate for licensed drivers is almost exactly the same as the fatality rate for police and nowhere near as dangerous as being a fisherman, logger, pilot, roofer, farmer or steel worker.

The death of anyone is no less of tragedy. The death of a policeman is no greater a tragedy.
 

Joe270

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I can't get my head around this one right now. I'm far too angry to post a response. Wasted. Just damn wasted. People who protect us wasted for what?

My heart goes out to the officers' families.
 

nighttimer

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Being a police officer is no more dangerous than driving. The fatality rate for licensed drivers is almost exactly the same as the fatality rate for police and nowhere near as dangerous as being a fisherman, logger, pilot, roofer, farmer or steel worker.

The death of anyone is no less of tragedy. The death of a policeman is no greater a tragedy.

You know something Fullback, you might have a point.

IF a fisherman was ever snatched from his boat and drowned by a trout.
IF a logger were suddenly under attack by a gang of angry beavers.
IF a pilot was purposedly broadsided by another suicidal pilot.
IF a roofer were blindfolded and forced to try and find his ladder.
IF a farmer feared one day he went out to the cornfield he might not make it back.
IF a steel worker were mowed down by a sudden hail of hot rivets.

But most fishermen don't get shot on a routine traffic stop.

Most loggers aren't called upon to enter a house where a body has been rotting away in the summer heat for a few weeks.

Very few pilots have ever broken up a domestic disturbance only to be attacked by both the husband and the wife whose ass he was beating.

Damn few roofers are called upon to break up a riot.

No farmer ever has to tell a mother her son got drunk and while driving the wrong way on the freeway ploughed the family SUV broadside in a family coming home from a birthday party.

Steel workers aren't called upon to talk a suicidal woman down from jumping off a ledge.

I don't give a shit if you think a police officer's job is no more dangerous than other professions.

What I do give a shit about is its a real no-class move to make that comparison when three cops are dead and another one's life is in the balance.

If you can't be sympathetic, maybe you should just be quiet. Right now, I'm going to put you on "Ignore."
 

Unique

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Was the perp paranoid? A fugitive? A criminal already?

It's a damn shame these men lost their lives in such a senseless manner.

Most people don't take on cops with an automatic weapon. I loathe the tragedy and can't help but wonder about the perp's motivation.

That was not a rational act. Even for a criminal.
 

mscelina

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Yes, we all prefer to call our local logger, licensed driver, fisherman, etc. when we are in danger from a weapon-wielding thug. Unbelievable comparison.

QFT. Thank God you said this in a nice way. I've self-edited my way out of about fifteen doomed to moderation posts about that comparison. Now I can just agree with you and leave all the adjectives out of it.
 

Unique

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Yes, we all prefer to call our local logger, licensed driver, fisherman, etc. when we are in danger from a weapon-wielding thug. Unbelievable comparison.

Not so much really.

Most people's jobs are a job. Yes, LE people know there is an element of risk. But that over the top type incident is just not all that common.

You were focused on the inherent danger of the job. She appeared to be focused on ... it's a way to make a living.

People go postal, too. Surely they didn't expect to get creamed at work.

I chalk it up to - too many rats in too small a cage.
 

SHBueche

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I don't have a family of police officers, so I really don't know, but I can imagine there's a high level of anxiety at all times. When you pull over someone for speeding, you don't know, you could be shot. When you respond to a domestic violence situation, you never know what you'll encounter behind the door ... I suppose as someone serving the country in a war zone never knowing what to expect or if you might trigger a hidden mine on the way to work.
 

rugcat

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Was the perp paranoid? A fugitive? A criminal already?
He was a parolee (assault with a deadly weapon) with a no bail warrant outstanding.

My patrol partner, many years ago, was killed in a shootout one week after I transferred into detective division. It's a very disturbing thing.

And yes, there are more dangerous jobs, statistically. But being specifically targeted and murdered is a different thing -- it has an emotional punch for friends, families and other officers that I would not wish on anyone.

And let me echo Nighttimer -- it's really not the time to bring up statistical comparisons.
 

Mr. Chuckletrousers

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Being a police officer is no more dangerous than driving. The fatality rate for licensed drivers is almost exactly the same as the fatality rate for police and nowhere near as dangerous as being a fisherman, logger, pilot, roofer, farmer or steel worker.

The death of anyone is no less of tragedy. The death of a policeman is no greater a tragedy.
This is quite wrong. Not all deaths are equally tragic. All else being equal, the death of someone you know is more tragic than the death of a complete stranger. All else equal, the death of a child is more tragic than the death of a person who has lived a long, full life. All else equal, a hard, painful death is more tragic than slipping away peacefully in your sleep. All else equal, being deliberately murdered while trying to protect society and to uphold the law is more tragic than being killed by the random forces of nature while trying to restock Wal-mart's seafood department.
 

Don Allen

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Being a police officer is no more dangerous than driving. The fatality rate for licensed drivers is almost exactly the same as the fatality rate for police and nowhere near as dangerous as being a fisherman, logger, pilot, roofer, farmer or steel worker.

The death of anyone is no less of tragedy. The death of a policeman is no greater a tragedy.

I don't think I have ever heard a more callous, intellectuality bankrupt comparison in my life.

Donroc and Night summed up a good response, but one thing that wasn't mentioned, is that when you catch a fish, you get a meal, you cut a tree you build a house, you farm land you reap a harvest.

When a cop gets called to home where someone got their brains blown out all the cop gets is a fucking nightmare, think about that when comparing the risk/reward ratio with mortality rates of other professions.
 

Fullback

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The original poster said "they still do one of the most dangerous jobs possible." Is that statement really true?

I didn't say this incident was not a tragedy. I didn't say anything "unsympathetic" at all. I didn't say a single thing about how difficult or stressful the work may be.

The fact is that it is not one of the most dangerous jobs possible. That's it. Nothing more.
 

Unique

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The fact is that it is not one of the most dangerous jobs possible. That's it. Nothing more.

I think we misunderstood you.

I'd hate to be an astronaut. I think that's dangerous. What if you couldn't get back? What do you do? Build your own spaceship?

That would be a long, lingering death.
 

willfulone

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The original poster said "they still do one of the most dangerous jobs possible." Is that statement really true?

I didn't say this incident was not a tragedy. I didn't say anything "unsympathetic" at all. I didn't say a single thing about how difficult or stressful the work may be.

The fact is that it is not one of the most dangerous jobs possible. That's it. Nothing more.

Not one of the most dangerous jobs? Out of thousands of possible, (well probably hundreds of thousands of job types) making the top 10 list? Makes it one of the most dangerous. From Forbes - 2007 is the latest completed data list of dangerous jobs/fatalities.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/08/25/dangerous-jobs-fishing-lead-careers-cx_mk_0825danger.html

"Badge-wielding types took a serious hit. Of all occupations, protective-service occupations suffered the greatest relative increase in workplace fatalities in 2007, jumping 20% to 314. Nearly one-half of those were police officers; indeed, enough men in blue perished in the line of fire to earn a spot on the list of America's 10 most dangerous jobs."

But, say I agree with you. Say I think logging or deep sea fishing is more dangerous. I don't, but okay - say a stastic link says so (like this Forbes list). I will concede someone made a list that says so. BUT, I disagree the danger levels and I will explain why.

For logging and deep sea fishing deaths are had due to human error and machine malfunction.

NOT due to some asshole bent on mayhem, destruction, crime and ACTIVELY TRYING to harm anyone who gets in the way of their "fun" or their "job" of raping, murdering, stealing, killing, etc.

It is much different to go to your job and fear you may die due to error than it is to go and KNOW you face death for someone actively pursuing such.

There is not a logical compare you can make to say that working in a job that has potential danger due to human error or mechanical malfunction is the SAME as a job that requires actively walking among PEOPLE who choose to kill. A danger due to "margin of error" is less risk than danger of dealing with people who can and do regularly kill. It is just not the same at all.


ETA: I will also concede "acts of God" (weather) also bear some responsibility on deep sea fishing dangers. STILL, does not make it as dangerous as walking among those actively willing to murder.

Christine
 
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Diana Hignutt

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For logging and deep sea fishing deaths are had due to human error and machine malfunction.


ETA: I will also concede "acts of God" (weather) also bear some responsibility on deep sea fishing dangers. STILL, does not make it as dangerous as walking among those actively willing to murder.

Christine

Yeah, as someone who actually knows more people personally that have died by shipwreck than by any other cause, I'm going to say that in my experience, most deep sea fishing deaths are caused by the weather. The sea is every bit as unpredictable as criminals, though without intent. Most fisherman face death far more often than law enforecement officers. I'm not belittling the police at all, just sticking up for fishermen a little.

And, although, the police could face death and danger at any time, and do so to protect us, the vast majority never encounter anything like this. Once again, I'm not dissing the fine folks in blue. I am deeply sorry for the loss of the officers in this case.
 
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Clair Dickson

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Everyone who takes any dangerous job is aware of the risk... but to me, that doesn't make their deaths any less tragic.

I think the debate over whether or not being a police officer is the *most* dangerous job or not, does this incident a disservice. It doesn't matter (to me at least) whether or not it was the most dangerous job or not. That doesn't change anything, for me.

The OP merely said it is one of the most dangerous. This was not, I'm sure, intended as a debate over which deaths are greater or lesser tragedies. But, as people are free to take anything as they see fit, I am also free to be appalled by it.
 

icerose

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Yeah, as someone who actually knows more people personally that have died by shipwreck than by any other cause, I'm going to say that in my experience, most deep sea fishing deaths are caused by the weather. The sea is every bit as unpredictable as criminals, though without intent. Most fisherman face death far more often than law enforecement officers. I'm not belittling the police at all, just sticking up for fishermem a little.

And, although, the police could face death and danger at any time, and do so to protect us, the vast majority never encounter anything like this. Once again, I'm not dissing the fine folks in blue. I am deeply sorry for the loss of the officers in this case.

I would not want to be a deep sea fisherman. My dad worked with the Alaska fisheries for a few summers before he was married, it was good money but extremely dangerous.

That being said I believe that when someone dies due to mother nature/mechanical malfunctions/human error and so forth it's a different kind of tragic than someone who is violently killed by another person.

One set is mostly out of everyone's control, the second is not. People are choosing to do these horrible things.

Also the death of a serviceman/woman through violence is also a different kind tragedy than an innocent civilian caught or targeted in a violent place. One is actively putting their life and limb on the line for others the others are just well in the line of fire or targeted by whomever is causing the violence.

All that aside I think it does the people who die an injustice by trying to figure out which one is worse. They're all bad, perhaps hitting us in different spots of our consciences, but hitting us nonetheless.

My heart goes out to the officers' families at this time.
 

willfulone

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Yeah, as someone who actually knows more people personally that have died by shipwreck than by any other cause, I'm going to say that in my experience, most deep sea fishing deaths are caused by the weather. The sea is every bit as unpredictable as criminals, though without intent. Most fisherman face death far more often than law enforecement officers. I'm not belittling the police at all, just sticking up for fishermen a little.

And, although, the police could face death and danger at any time, and do so to protect us, the vast majority never encounter anything like this. Once again, I'm not dissing the fine folks in blue. I am deeply sorry for the loss of the officers in this case.

I do not disagree with you on the weather. Is why I added the caveat after I posted initially.

And, I also agree that it is a choice one makes to become a police officer. And, thus, the inherent danger is a risk known and taken by them.

I merely disagreed with the one post stating it was not a "most" dangerous job.

For, it in fact, is a "most" dangerous job.

Christine
 

Williebee

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--LOOK, IT's AN ARBITER HAT --

It is worth noting that Fullback indicated that no denigration was intended, no slight to the truth of the tragedy. As a matter of respect to all involved, we should probably accept that and move on.

Thanks all...
 

Don Allen

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Just for perspective, and I have no desire to promote this any furthur, three cops are dead in the line of duty and people are debating whether or not fishing is more dangerous.

Okay I just had to read that on the screen so I could get the hell out of here, before I shoot myself...... e............Gads.....