Protester Tristan Anderson Shot in The Head by IDF

indiriverflow

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Video here

(graphic footage of an extremely bloody head wound included)

Peaceful ISM demonstrator Tristan Anderson was shot in the head by with an extended-range tear gas canister by unprovoked Israeli Defense Forces. The protesters, on the Palestinian side of the West Bank, were engaged in weekly nonviolent actions against draconian checkpoint policies.

According to Gabrielle Silverman, his partner and a witness to the entire incident, Israeli forces delayed the departure of the ambulance bearing the wounded activist, who was bleeding profusely from a head wound. One IDF soldier "stood smirking" as he blocked the closing of the ambulance door and had to be pushed aside.

These are not defensive actions.

May he recover without permanent head injury. Tristan and Gabrielle, you are my heroes of the day.
 
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William Haskins

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i hope he recovers.

however, i can't imagine that, given the weaponry available to them, the IDF went for a head shot with a tear gas canister.

protesters that venture into military zones with rock-throwing demonstrators definitely put themselves in harm's way.
 

indiriverflow

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i hope he recovers.

however, i can't imagine that, given the weaponry available to them, the IDF went for a head shot with a tear gas canister.

protesters that venture into military zones with rock-throwing demonstrators definitely put themselves in harm's way.

Witnesses say no rocks were being thrown. They were just "standing around." Tristan was taking footage to document conditions at the border.

His crime was recording the deplorable treatment Palestinians are subjected to every day.

The footage is live, you can see there was no rock throwing.

Whether they intended to hit him in the head is beside the point. These canisters are dangerous weapons and being used on unarmed civilians.
 
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Bird of Prey

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He WAS shot in the head, Rob. And look at the footage. Does that look like it wasn't deliberate to you??
 

indiriverflow

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Well no, it's not. Especially when you say "shot in the head" in your thread title.

He was shot in the head. It was quite severe. If I shoot someone in the head, even with a weapon which is not a gun, I am not able to defend myself by saying it was a warning shot or that I was aiming for his camera. I would be guilty of attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon. If the victim died, I would be up for murder. I might also be liable in a civil sense.

Mind you, these soldiers fired on Palestinian territory.

Live ammunition was also used, injuring a Palestinian in the leg.
 
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Bird of Prey

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That was an American citizen that was shot at close range, Dm. To my mind - being that Israel is taking a billions a year in American aid - that's what's called an "international incident."

And I have another comment. It would really be super if some Americans here- despite their adoration of Israel to the detriment of their own country - are actually concerned, maybe even a tad upset, when an Israeli shoots their fellow American.
 

robeiae

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That was an American citizen that was shot at close range, Dm. To my mind - being that Israel is taking a billions a year in American aid - that's what's called an "international incident."
As Dm's links note, this is going on frequently. As William noted, putting yourself in this situation--no matter what your nationality--means putting yourself in harm's way.
 

dpaterso

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Video title: "US Consul General Says Awaiting Israeli Report on IDF Shooting of American Citizen"

-Derek
 

Bird of Prey

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I can't watch it from the given link.

Regardless, "shot in head" implies a gunshot to the head, to me.

Given the fact that he's in critical conditon and has had extensive brain surgery, I think it's safe to say that the wound amounts to the same. He may not live. I hope he does, but assuredly he's had brain damage. I'm glad you couldn't watch it. It was sickening.
 

robeiae

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A high-pressure projectile capable of causing a hole in the skull doesn't qualify?
You said "shot in the head" and I told you what I think that implies and why--therefore--the title is misleading.

But look, that's okay. You're free to say it how you want to say it.

Of course, you're spinning all of it from one side in your first post:

You say "weekly nonviolent protests," yet there have been injuries to both sides.

You say "draconian policies" as if it was fact when it is just your opinion.
 

dmytryp

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Protests in Ni'ilin are anything but peaceful.
For ISM I don't even have enough expletives. They are provocateurs. You think the "Free Gaza" boats were about anything but creating provocations? Or do you still think Racheal Corry didn't defend a bloody smuggling tunnel (the girl was practically brainwashed by ISM)?

EDIT: Anyone who thinks you can actually aim that weapon very well, is deluding himself. I shot it.
 

Bird of Prey

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As Dm's links note, this is going on frequently. As William noted, putting yourself in this situation--no matter what your nationality--means putting yourself in harm's way.

That is an absurd justification for firing on unarmed protesters. Look, the IDF is supposed to be a trained military unit, not a bunch of trigger-happy protest haters.

And I dare say, that if an American officer or soldier fired on anybody's kid here that happened to be protesting with a bunch of rock throwers - and that officer killed or wounded the kid - I seriously doubt old mom or dad would say, "See? That's what sonny gets for hanging out with a bunch of hoodlums."

Because that's exactly what happened at Kent State, and I'm willing to bet that our "when-it-comes-to-Israel, que-sera,-sera" crowd here didn't think that Kent State was "oh well. . . understandable."
 
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indiriverflow

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You said "shot in the head" and I told you what I think that implies and why--therefore--the title is misleading.

But look, that's okay. You're free to say it how you want to say it.

Of course, you're spinning all of it from one side in your first post:

You say "weekly nonviolent protests," yet there have been injuries to both sides.

You say "draconian policies" as if it was fact when it is just your opinion.

Of course it is my opinion. You waste debating air saying so.
I posted this because I believe it deserves attention. If I were of a mind to defend the IDF at every turn, I'd have refrained from doing so.

Now that we've settled that, I think it is typical-and predictable-that the victim is blamed. Of course he knew there was danger. That's what makes him heroic. Would you be this contemptuous of a US soldier injured in a war you support? Tristan was acting on behalf of human rights for a group halfway around the world.

His injuries are no less heroic than those suffered by any other kind of soldier wounded in battle-except, of course, that Tristan was armed only with a camera. He signed up for possible repression, not combat.
 
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cethklein

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Witnesses say no rocks were being thrown. They were just "standing around." Tristan was taking footage to document conditions at the border.

His crime was recording the deplorable treatment Palestinians are subjected to every day.

The footage is live, you can see there was no rock throwing.

Whether they intended to hit him in the head is beside the point. These canisters are dangerous weapons and being used on unarmed civilians.

Somewhat off-topic: Just out of morbid curiosity, does anyone know if this person planned on doing a documentary about the deplorable conditions Palestinians suffer due to Hamas, or will he solely blame Israel, ignoring the fact that Hamas uses milliions of dollars of money to fund mortar attacks that could be used to feed people.

Somehow I bet he doesn't get around to that. Any takers?
 

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I'm no great apologist for Israel -- I think they frequently act thuggish, and show consistent disregard for Palestinians' rights.

That said, I believe the articles arguing that this is all scripted, that every week the anarchists and the hard left organize a shouting match and get more and more belligerent until provoked soldiers strike back, and then run to the media crying of repression. It's a very solid, effective tactic for undermining and wearing down opposition, in the long run.

We (the Western world, including Israel) don't draw a strong enough line between protest and harassment. Being in a secure area when you aren't authorized, or trying to batter down or cut through a border fence is not free speech or "peaceful protest". If you persist in this, and the military has to stop you, and this encounter plays out again and again, someone's going to end up getting badly hurt -- and it won't be the soldiers with the machine rifles and body armor.

What YouTube videos don't usually show is what it's actually like for soldiers and police to withstand this continual bullying, limit-testing and provocation for months or, in some situations, years. Snapping and shooting someone at point-blank is not excusable, but it doesn't make the soldier a monster, either -- merely human.

Note that I freely admit my biases in this area -- I get immediately skeptical when I hear about "peaceful protesters", because I hold a broader definition of "peaceful" than merely "not actively physically attacking other human beings right now."

EDIT: Let me add my voice to the chorus saying that "shot in the head" is purposefully inflammatory language when the weapon is a tear gas canister. I'll grant that it's definitely not a non-lethal attack, and very likely wasn't meant as one, and given how bad that is already I'm puzzled by the need to "dress it up" even more.
 
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robeiae

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Video title: "US Consul General Says Awaiting Israeli Report on IDF Shooting of American Citizen"

-Derek
Thanks, Derek.

EDIT: Anyone who thinks you can actually aim that weapon very well, is deluding himself. I shot it.

From what I see, the soldier fired from the hip. The Democracy Now! reporter says the range was 200 feet.

Sorry, I don't see that supporting the idea that Tristan was shot in the head intentionally with the canister.

Now, that doesn't automatically justify the use of tear gas, to me. Of course, I'm not there. But I don't think I'll be taking the word of Tristan's partner re what was going on at the time, i.e. no rock throwing and the like.

So, I'd say it's a horrible accident and maybe one that should never have happened.
 

Bird of Prey

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I'm no great apologist for Israel -- I think they frequently act thuggish, and show consistent disregard for Palestinians' rights.

That said, I believe the articles arguing that this is all scripted, that every week the anarchists and the hard left organize a shouting match and get more and more belligerent until provoked soldiers strike back, and then run to the media crying of repression. It's a very solid, effective tactic for undermining and wearing down opposition, in the long run.

We (the Western world, including Israel) don't draw a strong enough line between protest and harassment. Being in a secure area when you aren't authorized, or trying to batter down or cut through a border fence is not free speech or "peaceful protest". If you persist in this, and the military has to stop you, and this encounter plays out again and again, someone's going to end up getting badly hurt -- and it won't be the soldiers with the machine rifles and body armor.

What YouTube videos don't usually show is what it's actually like for soldiers and police to withstand this continual bullying, limit-testing and provocation for months or, in some situations, years. Snapping and shooting someone at point-blank is not excusable, but it doesn't make the soldier a monster, either -- merely human.

Note that I freely admit my biases in this area -- I get immediately skeptical when I hear about "peaceful protesters", because I hold a broader definition of "peaceful" than merely "not actively physically attacking other human beings right now."


Well, if I'm holding an AK47, and you're holding a rock, there's a lot of abuse I should be able to endure, don't you think?

Especially if you aren't even throwing a rock, and these people weren't. It's clear as day on the tape.
 

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Well, if I'm holding an AK47, and you're holding a rock, there's a lot of abuse I should be able to endure, don't you think?

Especially if you aren't even throwing a rock, and these people weren't. It's clear as day on the tape.

We must have seen different tapes. There's nothing clear about it at all.
 

indiriverflow

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Thanks, Derek.



From what I see, the soldier fired from the hip. The Democracy Now! reporter says the range was 200 feet.

Sorry, I don't see that supporting the idea that Tristan was shot in the head intentionally with the canister.

Now, that doesn't automatically justify the use of tear gas, to me. Of course, I'm not there. But I don't think I'll be taking the word of Tristan's partner re what was going on at the time, i.e. no rock throwing and the like.

So, I'd say it's a horrible accident and maybe one that should never have happened.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the soldier aimed for the head. This is the result of indiscriminate fire on a crowd. As such, these weapons should not be used for crowd control.

As far as the headline...I had to cut for length, and "shot" is short. "Extended-range tear gas canister" is not.

I felt it was sufficiently descriptive, and his injuries certainly resemble a gunshot wound, albeit at 200 yards. At close range, I expect it would be lethal.
 
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dmytryp

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That is an absurd justification for firing on unarmed protesters. Look, the IDF is supposed to be a trained military unit, not a bunch of trigger-happy protest haters.

And I dare say, that if an American officer or soldier fired on anybody's kid here that happened to be protesting with a bunch of rock throwers - and that officer killed or wounded the kid - I seriously doubt old mom or dad would say, "See? That's what sonny gets for hanging out with a bunch of hoodlums."

Because that's exactly what happened at Kent State, and I'm willing to bet that our "when-it-comes-to-Israel, que-sera,-sera" crowd here didn't think that Kent State was "oh well. . . understandable."
Police doesn't shoot tear gas at violent protesters all over the world, only in Israel?
It is also interesting that as far as you are concerned, the international incident had begun with this injury, not, say with the fact that an American citizen participated in violent demonstrations against Israeli troops, or American citizens, including a member of the Congress trying to break the blockade on Gaza.
 

robeiae

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that the soldier aimed for the head.
Gah! That's exactly what your thread title suggests, to me. And BoP is certainly suggesting it was intentional.

"Shot in The Head by the IDF."

How about "accidentally wounded by a tear gas canister"?