Gender Prejudice

scullars · Jun 2, 2005

An article in The Guardian, a UK online publication, divulges what I've long suspected: by and large, men do not read fiction authored by women. The one line in the article that particularly struck a nerve with me is:

'Consequently, fiction by women remains "special interest", while fiction by men still sets the standard for quality, narrative and style.'

In a survey, the male respondents were asked to name the "most important" work written by a woman, and many were unable to answer. The stock answer for those who did respond was Monica Ali's Brick Lane, although at least one respondent who offered this answer admitted he hadn't even read the book.

The rest of the article is here: http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,1495060,00.html

Now, my question: Why oh why is there this gender bias by male readers? I read works by both men and women, and appreciate the varied styles of both. Is it that men anticipate sentimentalization? Trite plots? A female-skewered view? What is it? And what is this belief that men's fiction "sets the standard for quality, narrative and style?" This almost harps back to the Oprah/Jonathan Franzen fiasco. I suspect that Franzen believed that by his book being labeled a book for women to read, his validity as a writer would somehow be dimishished.

OK, poll for the men on this board: What recent work have you read by a woman that you truly appreciated by way of plot, style, characterization?

Just curious.

MarkEsq · Jun 2, 2005

Never thought about it...

A fascinating subject, I've never even (consciously) made a distinction between male and female authors. I know I enjoy mysteries as a genre, and like the work of PD James, Agatha Christie.. but also AC Doyle.
Now, it could be that women only write about love stories and sappy stuff that have no real value or meaning, and maybe it's because men are just more gifted and intelligent and therefore in today's busy world, when we have a small amount of time to read for pleasure your odds are better if you pick up a book by a male author.
Seriously, I have no idea. I concede that the two books I am reading now are by men (John Mortimer's Rumpole and Maximum City by Suketu Mehta) but there was no intentional discrimination. I'll be interested to hear other people's theories.

veinglory · Jun 2, 2005

The Guardian says a lot of things and has a gender bias of its own going on (very few women reporters, less even than can be seen on staff at the tabloids).

I see approximately equal numbers of male and female names on the local bookstore shelves and publishers are not know for charity. What may be true is that men read more books by men and women read more books by women. But given that women buy more books than men that doesn't make the female authors 'niche' rather the reverse. 1 of every three books sold world wide is a romance and men don't write very many of these.

As for, oh, can't remember reading anything by a women, JK anyone?

maestrowork · Jun 2, 2005

I don't really think it's true. I read plenty of female authors, regardless of genres. Granted, I read literary/mainstream stuff as well as some genres.

Men do, however, tend to read for entertainment (I'm generalizing here, of course! Sorry): mystery, thriller/suspense, horror, sci-fi. There are many great female writers in these genres -- but males do dominate some (such as thriller/suspense). Men generally don't like to touch romance, chick lit, literary fiction which could be dominated by female writers. Again, there are exceptions.

Women do, by and large, buy more books than men.

How about female readers? Do you have gender bias? Do you prefer female writers over male?

veinglory · Jun 2, 2005

The research is based on self report. Thus it measures the last author a person remembers reading and is willing to admit to. I imagine people said they were reading old white dead men because they are memorable and prestige (despite having JK and Jackie Collins on the bedside table).

I wish reporting of research actually bothered to report how the data was collected and from whom. For a start they seem literary-centric when the vaste majority of books are bought and read for entertainment.

I lean (but by no means exclusively) towards female writers Octavia Butler, Ursula le Guin and a whole lot or erotic romance. I also read a lot of writers identifued by initials who many (esp. men) might assume are men? -- but I am pretty sure they aren't, Bujold, Cherryh?

Liam Jackson · Jun 2, 2005

Everything by Katherine Kurtz- stylistic but not to the point it overwhlems the story. She's got the knack. (Maybe I'm just a sucker for Templars)

Assorted works by: (in no particular order)
Andre Norton- so much talent it's spooky
Barbara Hambly- has moments of brilliance
J V Jones- great story teller
Margret Weiss- another prolific author with moments of pop and sizzle
Victoria Strauss- The Burning Lands ...hell of a book with timeless themes, made fresh

I have prejudices when it comes to shelling out $24.95 for a hardcover, or $7.95 for a paperback, but gender isn't one of them.

JoeEkaitis · Jun 2, 2005

Can't hear you! The "Oh, Puh-Leeze!" alarm is too loud!

Liam Jackson · Jun 2, 2005

Joe, I've always consider you the astute type

I see my opinion has been validated.

CACTUSWENDY · Jun 2, 2005

...and the other side of that coin is...I've read both male and female written books that I have not liked. I tend to write like a guy...with very little fluff...and will use more of a male name when and if I ever get it published. When I read a female written book I think I expect a certain 'flow' that I don't find in male written books. It's real hard to explain. :popcorn:

I don't read much romance...(hum...maybe I should check that out), but do like thrillers/crime/scifi/fan. (all this said...IMO)

robeiae · Jun 2, 2005

Guys can't write romance because they're not sensitive enough. It's easy for chicks to write it 'cause they're born knowing that stuff...it's as natural to them as shopping and crying.

Rob

Gehanna · Jun 2, 2005

I don't read romance or write it. In fact, I don't read fiction at all. Everything I read falls into the non-fiction category. I have approx. 74 non-fiction books in this room with me now. Some I have purchased and others are from the Public Library. I looked at them and all but 5 were written by men.

JoeEkaitis · Jun 2, 2005

LiamJackson said:
Joe, I've always consider you the astute type I see my opinion has been validated.

Why, thank 'e kindly and you have a nice day. :Sun:

jackie106 · Jun 2, 2005

maestrowork said:
How about female readers? Do you have gender bias? Do you prefer female writers over male?

My grandmother almost exclusively reads female writers (Margaret Atwood, Katherine Anne Porter, etc.), but I don't know any other women who share this prejudice.

There are handful of men who write romance novels. Some use their own names, some don't. I could see why an editor might not want a man to write under his own name, but it sure didn't hurt the sales of The Bridges of Madison County.

Then again, I don't read much romance, so I can't speak for the typical reader.

Jackie

BradyH1861 · Jun 2, 2005

I don't read much romance either, but boy do I like to look at the cover art.

Brady H.

Brainerd T. · Jun 2, 2005

LiamJackson said:
Everything by Katehrine Kurtz- stylistic but not to the point it overwhlems the story. She's got the knack. (And maybe, I'm a sucker for Templars)

My absolute favorite author is Kathryn Kurtz, followed closely by Stephen R. Donaldson. A very close third is Mary Stewart. Her telling of the Merlin Quadrilogy is superbly unsurpassable.

Wait. There is also Tolkien as well. Don't judge me too harshly, however, when I say: I'm an Edgar Rice Burroughs fan. He's not in the "Great" league, but he tell a good story. I've got almost all of his 96 books. The Mars ones are the best, not Tarzan.

However, there are a number of women through the years who made their "nom de plume" or alias, to that of a man so the publisher would publish them. Seems as if it may have been true at one time - or was it just the experience of a few select women authors? (One in a row does not set a precedent.)

PattiTheWicked · Jun 2, 2005

I occasionally see articles like this one, and mostly I think it's impossible to give them much credence at all. For it to be accurate, you'd really have to have an enormous control group, equally divided among both male and female readers of many socioeconomic and educational backgrounds.

For my part, I'm a 36-year-old suburban mom with an SUV and a college education, and while a lot of my peers enjoy "chick lit" and the stuff that ends up on Oprah's book club, I'm perfectly happy to putter along reading a healthy combination of Patrick O'Brien, John Grisham and PC Doherty mixed in with Nora Roberts, Anya Seton, Patricia Cornwell, and Jennifer Roberson. Throw in some classics, like Jane Austen, Alexandre Dumas, and William Shakespeare, and I'm perfectly happy.

Bottom line for me: a good book is a good book. A crappy book will not suddenly appeal to me merely because the author has one set of genitalia or the other.

eldragon · Jun 2, 2005

I don't read fiction by male or female.

No matter how interesting the book sounds, I cannot read fiction.

But - if I were to read fiction - I'd try a female writer first.

In fact, I prefer female writers to male writers.

Vanessa · Jun 2, 2005

Gehanna said:
I don't read romance or write it. In fact, I don't read fiction at all. Everything I read falls into the non-fiction category. I have approx. 74 non-fiction books in this room with me now.

It is a known fact that authors do change their names concealing their gender when they have published certain material. Being an avid reader, and still not knowing all of "who is who', it's hard to determine what gender actually wrote the piece. And with that in mind, everyone has a right to choose what they want to read, but it is not fair to an author when certain genders are selected solely because of gender. And perhaps this is why names are changed, to keep the author well fed. Maybe we can consider it all as a form of art. We take whatever creative means in pleasing the reader.

I also don't read romance novels, regardless of who wrote them. I read a lot of non-fiction/reference materials such as computing, and writing books. And honestly, and maybe sadly, I don't search the book stores for the authors of these materials, I look for the content.

That's my lil two cents....

sunandshadow · Jun 2, 2005

I think the gender divide is most blatant in the genre of mystery, where many bookstores divide the books by whether the authors are male or female. I don't read much mystery, but a fan of the genre told me that 'male mystery' and 'female mystery' have different plot types.

Me, I've found that most of my favorite authors are female, because female authors are more likely to focus on the sociology and psychology I'm interested in. But I've read more male authors overall because in the body of published science fiction novels, and of course classics, there just plain are more male authors than female authors.

maestrowork · Jun 2, 2005

I think the gender divide is most blatant in the genre of mystery, where many bookstores divide the books by whether the authors are male or female.

Huh? Which bookstores do you go to?

arrowqueen · Jun 2, 2005

Since I'm going to read the book, not sleep with it, the gender of the author is irrelevant.

Richard · Jun 2, 2005

Can I just point out that I probably wouldn't be able to think of a 'most important' book by a male author either if suddenly approached by a VoxPeep on the street. I've read and enjoyed books by representatives of both genres this week alone, but none of them would really earn that badge. I may or may not have read books that have been deemed important by other people, but I'm not going to namecheck them on spec.

And the writer's gender really doesn't make any difference to my buying (although I'll admit, it does occasionally raise my eyebrows while reading - especially when you glance at the book jacket and realise that a prim looking languages teacher has just segued seamlessly from intergalactic strife to latex clad bondage lesbians...)

scullars · Jun 2, 2005

Regarding pseudonyms, I wonder would J. K. Rowling have been as popular if she had published under her full given name? Sometimes, it is smart to initialize your name and keep the readers guessing.

As for the male authors I like, I gravitate toward horror or fantasy - Preston/Childs; Gary Braunbeck; Guy Gavriel Kay; Terry Goodkind; Tom Piccilli. The one mystery writer I particularly like is Caleb Carr. My fav female authors tend to be either horror or sci-fi/fantasy: Tananarive Due, Octavia Butler, Tess Gerritsen.

I'm just a sucker for excellent writing, whether from the pen of a man or woman. Although this might be a non-issue for some, there are those within the industry who have shown sexism in some of their comments. Case in point, Otto Penzler, known as the "dean of mystery-writing in America," who stated:

“The women who write [cozies] stop the action to go shopping, create a recipe, or take care of cats,” he says. “Cozies are not serious literature. They don’t deserve to win. Men take [writing] more seriously as art. Men labor over a book to make it literature. There are wonderful exceptions, of course—P.D. James, Ruth Rendell.”

He really generalizes and diminishes women when he says that men take writing more seriously as art.

I came across author Nichelle Tramble's blog which cites the same article. She relates her experience with male readers:

"A REPORT states that while women read books by male and female authors, men tend to read books written only by men. Are you surprised by that? I'm not. I can't tell you how many times men approached me on tour to say, "I don't usually read books by women. . ." I never had a response to that even though I heard it on every single leg of my tour. I knew what I wanted to say but in the spirit of being nice, and selling books, I couldn't let go with blue language and hollering in the middle of a bookstore."

It's this type of thinking in the industry and among some (not all) male readers that in some instances curtails women writers being taken seriously.

Richard · Jun 2, 2005

Note that he writes off the idea of taking care of cats, which in my mind, suggests he may not be a writer, but rather a plant from the Planet of the Pod People.

sunandshadow · Jun 2, 2005

maestrowork said:
Huh? Which bookstores do you go to?

This would be used bookstores, not new bookstores. (which separate men's and women's mystery novels) Websters in State College PA did this, last I knew. A Book Rack in Virginia used to do so. There's a lot of variation in the way used bookstores shelve things - some separate out sff romances into their own category, while some lump them into historical, or don't separate romances at all. Some separate science fiction and fantasy from each other, while some lump the two together. Some give graphic novels their own shelf, or combine them with roleplaying materials, or file them in the humor section, or won't carry them at all.

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