PDA

View Full Version : Dailey Swan Publishing (Casey Swanson)



doctri
03-12-2009, 07:25 PM
Anyone have any experience with them. They (Casey Swanson) seem like a reasonable establishment. Any thoughts out there?

CaoPaux
03-12-2009, 07:36 PM
Adding link: http://www.daileyswanpublishing.com/

priceless1
03-12-2009, 08:19 PM
They sure have a lot of "coming soon" pages on their site. When I get to my office computer, I'll check to see who distributes them. They certainly publish a lot of genres - something that's hard for a small press to do because it requires editors knowledgeable in all those genres. Most small presses specialize.

Anna Magdalena
03-12-2009, 08:25 PM
A quick glance tells me it looks very new. Lots of pages are 'coming soon'. I'd have a lot of questions to ask if I was thinking of approaching them. No mention of any distribution or sales team. And I've never heard of a publisher asking you to bind your manuscript for submission. But I'm willing to be put right on this.

Anna Magdalena
03-12-2009, 08:26 PM
She's done it again. Beat me to it. That lady must have go-faster stripes on her sneakers.

doctri
03-12-2009, 08:26 PM
Thanks priceless. I queried them and they asked for a full manuscript. For some reason, that makes me nervous! I get the impression that it is a fairly straight forward POD type publisher.

doctri
03-12-2009, 08:35 PM
She's done it again. Beat me to it. That lady must have go-faster stripes on her sneakers.


Explain??

c2ckim
03-12-2009, 08:51 PM
Be careful Doctri- they claim everything that is sent to them becomes their property cuz the publisher is just too busy to send it back if they don't want it!

doctri
03-12-2009, 09:05 PM
Be careful Doctri- they claim everything that is sent to them becomes their property cuz the publisher is just too busy to send it back if they don't want it!


I was worried when I read that too. So far, I haven't sent them anything.

I'm sure a lot of you know how I feel. After four months of submitting, twenty rejections and one request for a partial (from whom I have heard nothing and who will not answer emails) you tend to get a little desperate.

My novel is Christian fantasy-fiction...apparently a tough sell even in a strong economy.

M.R.J. Le Blanc
03-12-2009, 09:18 PM
Be careful Doctri- they claim everything that is sent to them becomes their property cuz the publisher is just too busy to send it back if they don't want it!

That would be enough for me to decide not to send them anything. I don't know if that claim would have any weight, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

priceless1
03-12-2009, 09:26 PM
Be careful Doctri- they claim everything that is sent to them becomes their property cuz the publisher is just too busy to send it back if they don't want it!
Yes, I saw that, too, and wondered exactly what they mean by "it's ours." Just because something dumps into their mailbox doesn't mean anything more than you mailed something to them. There is no contract or agreement of publication, so they "own" nothing. It's a noob statement. Hell, I'm busy, too, but so what? That's hardly the author's problem or fault. Deal with it.


She's done it again. Beat me to it. That lady must have go-faster stripes on her sneakers.
Heh, sorry, Anna. I'm operating on an extra cuppa this a.m.

cdoctor13
03-12-2009, 09:39 PM
This is just strange or red flags. You decide. From their "new authors" page:


Dear Writer,
Welcome to Dailey Swan Publishing. At Dailey Swan we’re not just a Giant Monolithic Publishing House, more responsive to their favored agents than a well written story. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.)
That's because their favored agents usually come bearing well written stories. That's why they are favorites.


At Dailey Swan Publishing, we’re looking for just that; an interesting story with a twist. Something that we can work on with the author to fully develop, bringing more to the world of the Written World.So you are looking for a favored agent or a story with an interesting twist?


To submit your novel to us, we give you two choices.
The first is to email us here at Dailey Swan Publishing.
Just use the link on this page and send us your outline, and sample pages from through-out the book. We need a good random selection, maybe half a dozen pages. Please, it's hard to tell what might catch our attention so don’t worry about which ones.
What the...? Random pages? What does that tell an editor?

All submissions will be reviewed by me, personally. Nice thing about being the publisher of a small publishing house. I get to choose what I publish. I do tend to get bored if everything looks the same though.And this means what to a submitter?


The second way would be to submit the entire book, in a binder, to the Pinole address. Again, everything we get will be looked at. However, don’t send me your only copy. All submissions do remain our property. In other words, with everything I have to do, there’s just not the time to return every submission that gets rejected.In a binder. Okay, that's a first for me. All submissions do not remain your property! You did not contract for it and claiming so is a violation of copy right law.

Rejections do happen, and when they do I will personally contact you by phone or e-mail and tell you why. Who knows, maybe we’ll like it after changes.
I look forward to seeing your work,
Casey Swanson
Publisher
Well, a personal rejection is OK but still the whole submission process is just odd.

Stacia Kane
03-12-2009, 09:49 PM
I think they mean the physical pages you send become their property--meaning they won't return them--not that everything sent to them becomes their intellectual property.

Not that it matters. There are enough red flags here to decorate a barn.

doctri
03-12-2009, 09:49 PM
I had a feeling my gut instinct regarding this was right. You guys have been really helpful. I will keep my ms and keep logging rejections from agents!

priceless1
03-12-2009, 10:55 PM
At my office computer. They appear to be distributed by Midpoint.

doctri
03-12-2009, 10:59 PM
At my office computer. They appear to be distributed by Midpoint.

Could you explain to me exactly what that means.

priceless1
03-12-2009, 11:11 PM
Midpoint is an independent distributor whose clients consist of small trade presses who don't have their own sales teams. Their sales folks pitch their catalogues to the genre buyers of chain stores, indies, and libraries. Midpoint is one of the larger indie distributors.This is a good thing because it's how we get our books on store shelves.

victoriastrauss
03-12-2009, 11:36 PM
I think they mean the physical pages you send become their property--meaning they won't return them--not that everything sent to them becomes their intellectual property.

I agree. They just mean the paper. They don't want to have to hassle with returning manuscripts.

The fact that they're distributed by Midpoint is a decent sign, as is the fact that they're keeping their list small (I first got a question about them in August 2007, so they've been around for at least a year and a half).

But I have to say their covers look pretty bad, and the random pages submission thing...well, that's just strange (it's also a classic newbie mistake). Plus, the owner's own book is published by the company. So while this seems like a well-intentioned publisher that's doing some things right, there's enough question to inspire caution, IMO.

- Victoria

doctri
03-12-2009, 11:52 PM
I am aware that they are working on titles for 2011. For what it's worth.

David McAfee
03-13-2009, 12:00 AM
Actually, having an actual distributor (as opposed to just being listed in Ingrams, etc.) is a good step, as far as I know. It means they are trying to sell books to readers, not the author's friends and family.

In my admittedly inexperienced opinion, it seems like while they might be a little clueless, they are not altogether crooked. If I'm wrong, veinglory, please feel free to correct me.

Anna Magdalena
03-13-2009, 12:39 AM
I don't think anyone here suggested it was a crooked operation. Not at all.

doctri
03-13-2009, 12:45 AM
No. I never thought that. I was just interested if anybody knew anything about it. I don't. Perhaps I should have thought of that before I queried her, but I never really expected her to ask for a full ms so quickly. It sort of caught me unprepared. I suppose I should have expected it when it says right on the website that you can send a full ms right off the bat. But, I didn't want to do that. I wanted to give her the option of rejecting the book from the query before dealing with the hassle of copying and sending an entire ms.

frandavea
03-14-2009, 04:34 AM
It is odd they would request random pages from throughout a ms. I went ahead and did it, anyway. We'll see what happens.

doctri
03-14-2009, 04:40 AM
It is odd they would request random pages from throughout a ms. I went ahead and did it, anyway. We'll see what happens.


When you say you "did it anyway", do you mean you sent random pages, or you sent a full ms? I sent the random pages and she asked for the full ms. Now, I have cold feet. I'm not sure why.

triceretops
03-14-2009, 05:40 AM
I exchanged several emails with her and it's confusing to say the least. I must have asked her three times if email/pages were okay, but she said, finally, that she wouldn't get around to printing up the sample pages until around July. She says she gives priority to hardmail fulls because the "the writers went to the trouble of doing it."

Throughout all three exchanges, she did not make a lot of sense to me. Perhaps somebody else can have a go and find out what these random pages mean. I asked her if she wouldn't prefer consecutive chapters sent email via my agent, and she never answered the question.

However, she did express interest in two of my queries. And right now, I just can't afford the shipping/postage/printing/paper and everything that goes with it to mail off two fulls.

Saundra Julian
03-14-2009, 06:07 AM
Thanks, Chris...enough said!

frandavea
03-14-2009, 06:21 AM
When you say you "did it anyway", do you mean you sent random pages, or you sent a full ms? I sent the random pages and she asked for the full ms. Now, I have cold feet. I'm not sure why.


I did as the guidelines requested. I sent three random chapters.

caseyrobert
08-17-2009, 09:47 AM
I just found this site. As the publisher, dailey swan publishing, now 3 years old, i'm still amazed by the feedback we're still discovering.
We're still a mom and pop operation, trying to create a publishing family, not just a publishing house. Do try to get back to people, right now about 6 months behind. We ask for random pages, If we like it, then we ask for a full manusript. From non-agents we accept about 1 in 200 submisssions. But a lot of the rejects do get notes explaining why.

When we luanched this, we never dreamed of how much material we would recieve. It's been overwelming at time. And unfortunately, our fist master ditributor went under costing us a lot of money. Forced me to return to work full time to support what we were trying to do. Back to full time this next month, so by the end of the year I should be caught up with all submissions.

Celebrated our 3rd anniverasry in new york. A lot of fun and a lot more notice for us. About 100,000+ books are published each year by legitimate distributors ( as opposed to vanity press's, though I love them, found a few titles we've published through iuniverse among others). Of those 8-12,000make in to some extent into the bookstores. I've been lucky enough, all of our titles have made it to a book store somewhere.
And now Deadline was named best fiction 2009 by the Hollywood book festival.

Anyway, that's enough for now. I just thought this would be a good chance to thank all of you who have submitted stuff to us. I will get to it.

Casey

priceless1
08-17-2009, 06:12 PM
Hi caseyrobert, I had mentioned upstream that you are with Midpoint, and I wanted to ask if they are doing just your fulfillment or whether you signed a full contract with them. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, Midpoint, along with all the other independent distributors, have a fulfillment side their businesses, and many smaller publishers sign on with that side so they don't have to deal with fulfilling orders and doing the bookkeeping.

The other option is the full service side, where their sales forces pitch their catalogs to the genre buyers and libraries. You have to be accepted by meeting the distributor's guidelines - lineup, cash flow, advertising and promotion, and earnings.

It's an important distinction because in one case, Midpoint is simply acting as your fulfillment center, and the other is getting the books on shelves.

caseyrobert
08-21-2009, 04:42 AM
priceless

We we Midpoint in many different capacities. They are both a distributor and master distributor, providing our product to all of the major distributors and well as independent and chain book store buyer.
We use their warehouse as a fulfillment center. All of our product is printed through digital press ( not on-demand) and we beleive in just in time manufacturing.

By midpoint providing our logistical support, we are able to invest more in time and marketing.

We just won our second book award, best fiction for 2009, from the Hollywood Book Festival. For Paula Tutman's book Deadline!

Currently we have distibution through north america, and english speaking europe and africa. We are curently speaking with possible ditributors in the middle east and southeast asia.

best wishes.

casey

Emily Winslow
08-23-2009, 06:32 PM
We we Midpoint in many different capacities. They are both a distributor and master distributor, providing our product to all of the major distributors and well as independent and chain book store buyer.
We use their warehouse as a fulfillment center. All of our product is printed through digital press ( not on-demand) and we beleive in just in time manufacturing.


Hi Casey--Thanks for answering questions!

Can you clarify--do you use Midpoint to pitch your catalog to bookstores and libraries? That part of Priceless's question interested me, and I didn't see that specifically addressed in your answer. It sounds like you use them for providing product, but not pitching product. Do I understand that correctly?

caseyrobert
10-05-2009, 11:09 PM
We use midpoint to reach bookstores and libraries, as well as the IPBA, and the the Jenkins Group Review direct. We also do our own direct marketing pieces.

caseyrobert
10-05-2009, 11:52 PM
By the way, i did notice a few posts referring to me 'she'. Afraid that would be news to my wife and family :). Get that confusion a lot. Not sure why, name means brave or valient warrior in old celtic. Not sure why somebody would name their daughter Casey with that in mind, but c'est le vie.

By the way, just to clarify.

I ask for sample pages and a synopsis to see if 10 the idea is one were interested in, and 2) is the manuscript ready. If those two are a yes, when then ask for the hard copy. If it's not worth the authors time to submit, then we figure their not somebody we want to deal with.

I read the manuscripts at the local coffe shop and make notes on them, both for future edits if we decide to publish, and for the authors review if we thinks it's something worth doing in the future, but not yet ready. We currently have 4 authors under contract, coming out between 2010-12 where we saw something worthwhile and spent time working with the author to make it happen.

I know in the first 25 pages of a manuscript what we will do with it.
Then it goes to my wife for review if I like it.
rejections are then notified,
acceptance are offered a contract, with an approximate published date.
We are currently working on 2011-12.

It cuurently takes 12-18 months to get a titles ready for publication.
Interior design and edits, cover design, and marketing.

We have so far won 2 awards (we do not pay for submissons to award contests--we feel there is way to much of that, to much like POD/Vanity Press's)
We won in 2006 a Golden Duck Award for Young Adult Science-Fiction with Apers by Mark Jansen (since discontinued)
We won the Hollywood Book Festivals Best Fiction Award for 2009 for Deadline! by Paula Tutman.

Thanks

Eirin
10-06-2009, 09:17 PM
We use midpoint to reach bookstores and libraries, as well as the IPBA, and the the Jenkins Group Review direct. We also do our own direct marketing pieces.

So you have the full service deal Priceless mentioned with Midpoint, yes?

DaveKuzminski
10-06-2009, 10:04 PM
We have so far won 2 awards (we do not pay for submissons to award contests--we feel there is way to much of that, to much like POD/Vanity Press's)

We won in 2006 a Golden Duck Award for Young Adult Science-Fiction with Apers by Mark Jansen (since discontinued)

We won the Hollywood Book Festivals Best Fiction Award for 2009 for Deadline! by Paula Tutman.

Thanks


If I'm not mistaken, the Hollywood Book Festival has an entry fee.

jsouders
10-12-2009, 04:50 PM
Hi Has anyone had any personal experiences with this publisher? Or know why this publisher is listed as a Not Recommended by P&E? The authors I spoke with, who are published by him, seem very happy with him.

priceless1
10-12-2009, 06:06 PM
We use midpoint to reach bookstores and libraries, as well as the IPBA, and the the Jenkins Group Review direct. We also do our own direct marketing pieces.
Casey, I'm still unclear as to your relationship with Midpoint due to the ambiguity of your statement. Midpoint, like other distributors have two sides of the biz. One is order fulfillment and getting titles listed with the online databases - hence "reaching bookstores and libraries."

The other side is full distribution, for which you must qualify and have large print runs. This side has their clients' titles listed in their cataloge and their sales teams pitch the titles in a personal meeting with genre buyers of the store chains, indies, and the libraries.

Now, if you're using Jenkins Group Review direct mailing services that's available through IBPA, this makes me believe that your relationship with Midpoint is for the fulfillment side. Otherwise you wouldn't use the Jenkins Group Review mailing services because you'd be doubling up on what Midpoint's sales teams are are already doing. And you know what the bookstores do with those big white boxes? They toss them. I can't tell you how many store managers I've talked to about this expensive program, and all they do is laugh. It's sad.

Since you're using digital runs, this tells me that you're not printing large enough numbers of books to meet potential purchase orders from Midpoint's sales side. And this is what makes me believe that you are contracted with them for order fulfillment only.

Can you please clarify?

priceless1
10-12-2009, 06:08 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the Hollywood Book Festival has an entry fee.
It's also well known for being, ah, how to put it...dubious.

doctri
10-12-2009, 06:36 PM
Casey, I'm still unclear as to your relationship with Midpoint due to the ambiguity of your statement. Midpoint, like other distributors have two sides of the biz. One is order fulfillment and getting titles listed with the online databases - hence "reaching bookstores and libraries."

The other side is full distribution, for which you must qualify and have large print runs. This side has their clients' titles listed in their cataloge and their sales teams pitch the titles in a personal meeting with genre buyers of the store chains, indies, and the libraries.

Now, if you're using Jenkins Group Review direct mailing services that's available through IBPA, this makes me believe that your relationship with Midpoint is for the fulfillment side. Otherwise you wouldn't use the Jenkins Group Review mailing services because you'd be doubling up on what Midpoint's sales teams are are already doing. And you know what the bookstores do with those big white boxes? They toss them. I can't tell you how many store managers I've talked to about this expensive program, and all they do is laugh. It's sad.

Since you're using digital runs, this tells me that you're not printing large enough numbers of books to meet potential purchase orders from Midpoint's sales side. And this is what makes me believe that you are contracted with them for order fulfillment only.

Can you please clarify?


Dont know if it helps or not, but I can tell you that one of Dailey Swan's titles, "Deadline" has been on the shelf of my local Barnes and Noble. It's currently out of stock, but it has actually, physically been in the store, on the shelf. And I live about 1800 miles from Dailey Swan's headquarters in San Francisco.

Is this helpful info?

priceless1
10-12-2009, 06:42 PM
Sure it's helpful. It means one of his books is on a store shelf. This is a good thing! And not to stick a fork in anyone's eye, I once saw a PA book on a shelf, too. So my question is focused on how the book got there - hence my questions regarding his relationship with Midpoint. One can get a few books out here and there, and the other can get many copies out to a widespread area.

caseyrobert
11-24-2009, 04:41 AM
Sorry it took a while to get back to this site regarding questions.

As far as our status with midpoint, we avail ourselves of all of there services. From distribution, to marketing, to sales. It's been a wonderful relationship to have.

The IPBA and Jenkins group are seperate entities. We use the services of the IPBA ( A Trade association) for all of it's marketing on a direct basis to book buyers (Bookstores, Libraries, and schools). The Jenkins Group is a marketing group that helps us expand our reach. Much the same can be said of our relationship with Publishers Weekly. Somewhat of a cross between the other two. We are also a supporting affiliate of the Indi-Bound Independent Bookstores organization.

Among others, our books are distibuted by Baker and Tyalor, Ingram Books, Gazelle, and other fine regional distributors.

Hope this helps.

As an aside, we are cuurrently looking for short stories to post on our website. Authors will be paid a nominal fee, and the best, as voted by the readers, wil be published in a compilation each year.

Casey

The Grump
02-14-2010, 03:04 AM
Question. Does anyone have any info on their current response times?

Vandal
02-14-2010, 03:21 AM
I sent a query and 5 pages on August 27 and received a full request on September 25. Mr. Swanson called to offer me a contract less than a month later. I got an agent for another story about a week before, so I had to put his request on hold. He went ahead and sent me the contract and it is a lot better than most of the small press contracts I have seen or heard about.

DSP is looking for 2012 placements.

doctri
02-14-2010, 04:08 AM
Vandal,

My experience with DSP to date has been very good. I have a book pending release in 2011 with them and according to may agent, Al Longden, the contract with DSP is a good one. It bears mentioning that I actually secured the publishing deal with DSP before I signed on with Mr. Longden. He has decades of experience as a literary agent and is very satisfied with DSP's marketing plans and distributorship. I am very pleased.

Vandal
02-14-2010, 05:43 AM
Vandal,

My experience with DSP to date has been very good. I have a book pending release in 2011 with them and according to may agent, Al Longden, the contract with DSP is a good one. It bears mentioning that I actually secured the publishing deal with DSP before I signed on with Mr. Longden. He has decades of experience as a literary agent and is very satisfied with DSP's marketing plans and distributorship. I am very pleased.

Thanks, that's good to know. We're going to shoot for the moon, but this just may be where it ends up.

shops4cash
06-29-2010, 06:15 PM
Hello, I came across this link after googling the publisher and Casey Swanson and I am curious if those of you who had pending book deals and have had contact with Mr. Swanson are still satisfied. I see that P&E has not recommended this publisher yet this thread sounds positive and I also have found that they are ITW recognized.

I sent a query and subsequently had a request for a full MS. I tried PA once, just for the fun of it, with a very inferior MS and sure enough, I received a an offer to publish. I am just hoping this one is legit. Any updates or new information on them?

doctri
06-29-2010, 07:42 PM
shops4cash,

I can give you a little more info as my situation moves forward. Casey Swanson of Dailey Swan Publishing continues to have intermittent contact with me, keeping me up to date with any news regarding the company. They are presently "gearing up" for 2011 releases. They tend to publish about 10 new titles per year and though it is a small, independent publisher, nothing either I or my agent can find suggest that they are anything but a legitimate, royalty paying publishing house. They're just relatively new and small. In addition to their prior marketing strategies, Dailey Swan has begun much more aggressively utilizing social networks (scribd, facebook, etc) as a way to market their books. Of course, I don't have access to their numbers, but according to Casey, this has paid dividends to the extent that the last few months of sales have been some of their best ever. It is apparent to me that they don't offer every MS a publishing contract and it is also apparent that they are trying to do things the right way. I have been asked to deliver an edited version of my initial MS (due within 30 days) and I expect things to really speed up pending a May 15, 2011 release date. Again, they're small but they're not POD or vanity publishing. They don't pay advances (which are typically given against future book sales anyway, unless you're John Grisham) but do pay royalties in a manner that my agent describes as "standard". He goes on to advise me that their initial delivery of free books to the author is "generous". I am encouraged that, as a first time author nobody has ever heard of, Dailey Swan will turn out to be a nice place to have landed.

shops4cash
06-30-2010, 07:24 PM
That's great, Doctri. Thank you for replying and best of luck with your novel.

Saanen
08-07-2010, 01:29 AM
Their website plays music. Ick. You can turn it off, but every time you go to a new page it starts again. That screams "amateur website" to me.

Their covers are pretty horrible and they don't have any kind of preview of first chapters or pages. Based on those two things alone, I'm giving them a miss.

Theobalddavid
08-23-2010, 05:32 PM
Saanen- just because you don't like music with your web sites is no reason to cast dispersions uspon this publisher. If you think it's amateurish, fine - you don't need to look at it. Probably good you gave them a miss. I like what Casey has done and the fact that he is encouraging first time authors. Maybe you haven't run into this problem, but it's hard to get your material in front of a publisher if you are an unheard of author. Remember, John Grisham - he was unheard of at one time and started with a small publisher. I guess my point is don't knock someone who is trying to get his business growing and is willing to take on first time authors, unless you have personally had a bad experience with them. I personally have found them very easy to deal with and willing to work with me on refining my manuscript and hopefully publishing it. That is still to be determined, but he is one of the few that responded to me and gave me ideas on what he'd like to see changed to make the book more readable. I applaud what he is doing and I would encourage any author - especially a new author to check out Dailey Swan publishers.

agentpaper
08-23-2010, 06:06 PM
Saanen- just because you don't like music with your web sites is no reason to cast dispersions uspon this publisher. If you think it's amateurish, fine - you don't need to look at it. Probably good you gave them a miss. I like what Casey has done and the fact that he is encouraging first time authors. Maybe you haven't run into this problem, but it's hard to get your material in front of a publisher if you are an unheard of author. Remember, John Grisham - he was unheard of at one time and started with a small publisher. I guess my point is don't knock someone who is trying to get his business growing and is willing to take on first time authors, unless you have personally had a bad experience with them. I personally have found them very easy to deal with and willing to work with me on refining my manuscript and hopefully publishing it. That is still to be determined, but he is one of the few that responded to me and gave me ideas on what he'd like to see changed to make the book more readable. I applaud what he is doing and I would encourage any author - especially a new author to check out Dailey Swan publishers.

Bolding mine.

Why does this ALWAYS come up when someone is trying to defend a small publisher? This just isn't true. If you've written a superb story, then it doesn't matter if you're unheard of. And if you're not sending out a superb story, why not? You should always send out your best stuff and keep writing to improve, then send THAT out and so on and so forth.

I'm not bashing this publisher or this poster or even small presses, I'm just amazed at how many people think this to be true, and then spread it around like this.

As far as John Grisham, he's the exception that proves the rule. The only reason we even know about it, is because it's news worthy (ie it happens very rarely. If it happened all the time, would we care?).

And music played on a business website is very unprofessional, IMHO. You don't see any of the big commercial publishers doing this and there's probably a reason for it.

~AP--who's done venting.

priceless1
08-23-2010, 06:28 PM
Maybe you haven't run into this problem, but it's hard to get your material in front of a publisher if you are an unheard of author.
This is one of those wives tales that circulate around all the time. It's old and moldy and really needs to be put to bed once and for all. Publishers read material from unpublished authors all the time. Debut authors are published all the time. Just because someone is new is no reason to ever settle for less. If you write like the wind, an editor will sit up and take notice.

JulieB
08-23-2010, 07:07 PM
And music played on a business website is very unprofessional, IMHO. You don't see any of the big commercial publishers doing this and there's probably a reason for it.


The number one reason: If you haven't licensed it, you shouldn't be using it. Of course, they may have licensed it, which would have been the right thing to do. But...

The number two reason: Unless you're in the business of selling music (you're a band, a record label) you're probably driving customers away. Nothing makes me click away (or hit the mute button) faster than music or video that starts when a page is loaded. If you've annoyed your customer, you're less likely to make a sale. Period. I give them points for being reader-facing, but they really should ditch the music.

Sheryl Nantus
08-23-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm smelling a drive-by posting.

We'll see if the poster comes on back to make more sense out of his/her original statement.

Stacia Kane
08-23-2010, 09:02 PM
Bolding mine.

Why does this ALWAYS come up when someone is trying to defend a small publisher? This just isn't true. If you've written a superb story, then it doesn't matter if you're unheard of. And if you're not sending out a superb story, why not? You should always send out your best stuff and keep writing to improve, then send THAT out and so on and so forth.

I'm not bashing this publisher or this poster or even small presses, I'm just amazed at how many people think this to be true, and then spread it around like this.

As far as John Grisham, he's the exception that proves the rule. The only reason we even know about it, is because it's news worthy (ie it happens very rarely. If it happened all the time, would we care?).

And music played on a business website is very unprofessional, IMHO. You don't see any of the big commercial publishers doing this and there's probably a reason for it.

~AP--who's done venting.


Ditto, ditto, ditto, this entire post. New authors get published every day, John Grisham's story is highly unique (ad if memory serves, the house that bought his first book wasn't that small, and had been in business for a long time; it was a military publisher, wasn't it?), and music on a website is terrible and unprofessional.

Survey after survey and article after article has shown that when music starts as soon as a website loads, people click away immediately and don't return. It's unprofessional and amateurish, and just generally a bad idea. I don't understand why a professional publisher would want music on their website.

Momento Mori
08-23-2010, 09:19 PM
Theobalddavid:
Maybe you haven't run into this problem, but it's hard to get your material in front of a publisher if you are an unheard of author.

Bollocks. Plenty of first-time, unknown authors are published by big commercial publishers. Best way to do it is to get an agent first.


Theobalddavid:
John Grisham - he was unheard of at one time and started with a small publisher.


Wynwood Press (who published John Grisham's A Time To Kill) paid him an advance for that book and did an initial print run of 5,000.

Does Dailey Swan pay advances and/or do print runs?


Theobalddavid:
I guess my point is don't knock someone who is trying to get his business growing and is willing to take on first time authors, unless you have personally had a bad experience with them.

No-one's knocking them. People are asking questions and raising potential concerns.

As for waiting until someone has a bad experience, the whole point of this site is to enable authors to make an informed decision before signing with a publisher - that way they can avoid that bad experience.


Theobalddavid:
I personally have found them very easy to deal with and willing to work with me on refining my manuscript and hopefully publishing it. That is still to be determined, but he is one of the few that responded to me and gave me ideas on what he'd like to see changed to make the book more readable.

While it's great that Casey is willing to do that, most publishers don't because they lack the time as they're focusing on running a business.

A good critique group or beta reader could equally help to make your manuscript more readable.

MM

Momento Mori
08-23-2010, 09:23 PM
Stacia Kane:
John Grisham's story is highly unique (ad if memory serves, the house that bought his first book wasn't that small, and had been in business for a long time; it was a military publisher, wasn't it?)

According to John Grisham himself, they were a new house in 1989 - http://www.slushpile.net/index.php/2006/03/01/interview-john-grisham-author/


John Grisham Interview:
Wynwood Press was a new, small unknown publishing company in New York in 1989. Everybody else had passed on A Time to Kill, Wynwood Press took the gamble. Printed 5,000 hardback copies, and we couldn’t give them away. Wynwood later went bankrupt, or out of business.

Apparently, when the company went out of business he bought up the remainder of the books and sold them himself (hence the infamous "John Grisham kept his books in the trunk of his car" story that keeps doing the rounds).

What's interesting is that on his website, he says that he wrote The Firm next, sold the screenplay rights and then got the book deal with Doubleday, who bought the hardback republishing rights for A Time To Kill.

Erm ... not that I'm obsessed with John Grisham or anything. I just decided to do a bit of research because I got fed up with reading about how he'd self-published.

MM

Stacia Kane
08-23-2010, 09:49 PM
Thanks MM! I couldn't remember the details and didn't have time to google. :)

profen4
08-23-2010, 09:56 PM
Erm ... not that I'm obsessed with John Grisham or anything. I just decided to do a bit of research because I got fed up with reading about how he'd self-published.

MM

Yeah right, stalker!!! You're watching him right now, aren't you?

IceCreamEmpress
08-23-2010, 09:59 PM
Stacia, I think you're thinking of Tom Clancy, who published The Hunt for Red October first with a specialty naval press.

Stacia Kane
08-23-2010, 11:28 PM
Stacia, I think you're thinking of Tom Clancy, who published The Hunt for Red October first with a specialty naval press.


YES! Doh. Thanks, that was indeed who I was thinking of. :)

Momento Mori
08-24-2010, 04:47 PM
swhibs123:
You're watching him right now, aren't you?

No.

:puts down binoculars and edges away looking shifty:

:goes to polish shrine:

MM

Theobalddavid
08-26-2010, 12:57 AM
Glad to see my post generated so much interest!

Just like anything in life, what Casey has done for his WEB site will be liked by many, make no difference to others and be abhorrent to some. My point was simply, don't knock it just because you don't like it. What's that old axiom; “Don't judge a book by its cover”? As to unheard of authors if you have written the most recent best seller - sure agents and publishers are going to want to take it on. However, if the manuscript is just good and the author is unknown it's hard to get it published.

I’m happy for all of you who are so good that you got your first manuscript published with so little effort – it’s quite obvious you are brilliant writers.

No drive by here!

Katrina S. Forest
08-26-2010, 02:08 AM
Pick up any book on basic website design and you will find that music in the background is discouraged for the reasons already mentioned. It annoys visitors. So, yes, if I'm visiting a professional website, I expect it to look nice and sound silent. (Now I will say I think the design of the site aside from the music is rather nice, so it's got that in it's favor.)


I’m happy for all of you who are so good that you got your first manuscript published with so little effort

No one said that writing a publishable manuscript is easy. It's insanely hard. The only thing anyone said was that once you *have* written an awesome book, you can get it published regardless of how known you are. If it's "just good," but not good enough that strangers will pay money to read it, why should anyone (large or small press) pay you for it?

Publishers of any size don't buy books to be nice to the authors - they buy them because they think they'll make money. Even presses that specialize in niche markets only want the best of what comes into their slush pile. Anything less should raise an immediate red flag, because it means the press is either going to close shop very quickly or they're making money some other way.

I totally understand the frustration of feeling like your work is good but not good enough, and it's so easy to blame it on unknown status. But the problem is if you use this reason too often, you stop looking for flaws in your work and you stop improving.

Stacia Kane
08-26-2010, 02:13 AM
Glad to see my post generated so much interest!

As to unheard of authors if you have written the most recent best seller - sure agents and publishers are going to want to take it on. However, if the manuscript is just good and the author is unknown it's hard to get it published.

Well, sure, if the book is "just good." Lots of books are "just good." Publishers want to publish excellent books, because that's what the public expects and what they're willing to spend their money on. Again, new writers get published every single day, with major houses. They don't care if you're known or not; if your book excites them and they love it, they will buy it.



I’m happy for all of you who are so good that you got your first manuscript published with so little effort – it’s quite obvious you are brilliant writers.

See, I would think you were being nice here, except for the line about "with so little effort." Who says it wasn't an effort? Who says the first ms that got published was our first ms ever? My first ms certainly didn't get published; it was awful. My first NY sale was actually the ninth novel I'd ever written; it took me several years to get to that point. Most books you see on shelves are the result of years of work for an author until they had the right idea, the right character, and the skills and abilities to do them justice.

I work incredibly hard on all of my books. I put everything I can and everything I have into them, until I'm exhausted, and then I do it again. My hands hurt, my fingers hurt, my back hurts, my head hurts from being nearsighted and squinting to read the screen because of the eyestrain that makes my eyes hurt. I lose sleep, I miss out on chances to do things with my family. Don't tell me it was "so little effort," or that I didn't have to put in a lot of hard work to get even the moderate semi-success I've achieved.

I'm not a bestseller by a long shot. I was completely unknown when my agent sold my series to Del Rey. So were most of the writers on this board. It happens every day. I'm sorry, but what you're saying is patently and provably false, and I don't understand why you keep repeating it as if it's true.

RoseColoredSkies
08-26-2010, 02:19 AM
Stacia, I think you're thinking of Tom Clancy, who published The Hunt for Red October first with a specialty naval press.

*Shudder* That was like the first case we read in Contracts class last year. Guess it helped make him famous. And go on and publish with bigger houses.

Okay...going now.

Theobalddavid
08-26-2010, 02:41 AM
See, I would think you were being nice here, except for the line about "with so little effort."

.

Ah - see how the mind reads what it wants - I was being nice as well as envious!

Saanen
08-26-2010, 03:48 AM
Ah - see how the mind reads what it wants - I was being nice as well as envious!

You were being snarky. You're being snarky now by saying that Stacia Kane was reading something into your words you hadn't intended.

Of course, I'm being snarky too and I shouldn't be. Sorry about that. I suggest you look around the AW forums and get involved. We're always happy for a fresh voice and there's a ton to learn and discuss. I hope you don't limit your activity to this particular post.

As for Dailey Swan, I stand by my original statement that the website's music is amateurish. I didn't say anything about the books, just the website--but as others have said, the music is undoubtedly driving potential book-buyers away before they even glance at the first title.

Momento Mori
08-26-2010, 02:22 PM
Theobalddavid:
what Casey has done for his WEB site will be liked by many, make no difference to others and be abhorrent to some.

The one issue with Casey's website is whether the book purchasing public is ever going to see it because if he's relying on it to make sales, then it needs to be well publicised. Whether it's got photos, nice script or plays Stevie Wonder when you click on it doesn't matter if no one is ever going to go there.


Theobalddavid:
My point was simply, don't knock it just because you don't like it.

My point is that if there are potential issues with a publisher that a writer should be aware of/consider before signing with them, then those potential issues should be pointed out.

Pointing out a potential issue is not knocking the publisher. I don't have any reason to think that Dailey Swan is anything other than a well-intentioned publisher trying to do the best for its authors. However, as the old axiom has it - good intentions pave the way to hell and there are plenty of other threads on this Forum for similarly minded publishers which have ended up being a terrible idea for writers.


Theobalddavid:
As to unheard of authors if you have written the most recent best seller - sure agents and publishers are going to want to take it on.

This is still bollocks.

How does an agent or publisher know that a book is going to be a bestseller? The answer is that they don't. It's like William Goldman said "Nobody knows anything". All an agent or publisher can do is make a decision, based on their experience as to whether they can sell the book.

In the case of an agent, the risk they take is that they can't then sell that manuscript.

In the case of a publisher, the risk that they take is that they don't sell the book in sufficient copies to make the anticipated profit.

While everyone goes into the deal hoping that the book will do really well, no one can guarantee it. That's what makes it a commercial enterprise.


Theobalddavid:
However, if the manuscript is just good and the author is unknown it's hard to get it published.

This is also still bollocks.

Plenty of unknown authors with good manuscripts get agents and sell their books to publishers.

If your skewered view of the world was true, then no one would have published Dan Brown, J K Rowling, Stephen King, Nora Roberts, or a host of other big name authors because their first books were not instant bestsellers.


Theobalddavid:
I’m happy for all of you who are so good that you got your first manuscript published with so little effort

I'm happy for you that you live in a little bubble that no amount of logic or common sense can apparently penetrate.

Writing is hard. Getting an agent is hard. Getting a publisher is hard.

No one walks into it.

No one is guaranteed instant bestseller success.

No one with an ounce of common sense goes into writing expecting instant commercial success.


Theobalddavid:
No drive by here!

On the contrary, you have 3 posts - all in this thread depending a publisher against the big internet meanies. That's pretty much the definition of a drive-by.


Theobalddavid:
see how the mind reads what it wants - I was being nice as well as envious!

Uh-huh.

MM

Nya RAyne
08-26-2010, 06:44 PM
Be careful Doctri- they claim everything that is sent to them becomes their property cuz the publisher is just too busy to send it back if they don't want it!


For that reason alone, I wouldn't query them.

Daddyo
08-26-2010, 06:54 PM
Their property means that they'll shred it, burn it or put it in the bird's cage.

priceless1
08-26-2010, 07:18 PM
My point was simply, don't knock it just because you don't like it. What's that old axiom; “Don't judge a book by its cover”?
That may be a great thing to say in a Sunday school class, but in the publishing industry, appearances are our life's blood - along with being able to deliver the goods. I've heard many of my agent friends talk about the cruddy websites of publishers while holding their noses. However, if that publisher is selling tons of books, they could have their site on a sheet of toilet paper, and agents would flock.

But a cruddy website for an unproven publisher is a death knell because it screams noob.


As to unheard of authors if you have written the most recent best seller - sure agents and publishers are going to want to take it on. However, if the manuscript is just good and the author is unknown it's hard to get it published.
This statement is naive. Editors and agents look for good books that they believe is marketable. Period. It's wrong to believe new writers don't get good publishing deals. We have several bestsellers, and they were all debut writers.

New writers do not get shut out, yet this excuse is consistently rolled out in order to justify going with a publisher who can't get off first base.

Momento Mori
08-26-2010, 07:49 PM
priceless1:
But a cruddy website for an unproven publisher is a death knell because it screams noob.

I agree with this and I'd say that it's not only the music that identifies the publisher as a n00b, it's also statements like this:


Dailey Swan Website:
send us your outline, and sample pages from through-out the book. We need a good random selection, maybe half a dozen pages. Please, it's hard to tell what might catch our attention so don’t worry about which ones.

The reason why agents/publishers ask for the opening pages/chapters first is because it gives them an indication as to whether the writer (a) can write and (b) write something that grabs and sustains interest.

Asking for a random 12 pages of someone's book is not an effective way of managing the slush pile because in all probability, a writer will send the best 12 pages, which might be incredible but mean nothing if the intervening pages are standard slush.


Dailey Swan Website:
our books including the aforementioned genre fiction (science-fiction/fantasy, mystery/suspense, and horror), general fiction, non-fiction, self-help/motivational, and poetry, with the launch in the fall of 2009 of our second imprint Earl Henry Books, (a source for new poets with something to say).

Most start-up publishers find it easier to concentrate on one or two specific genres because they can build up their reputation in that field before expanding into other genres.

A publisher who accepts poetry is almost always a red flag because there is no real market out there for poetry collections, making it financially unviable for many.

MM

Marian Perera
08-26-2010, 08:09 PM
Asking for a random 12 pages of someone's book is not an effective way of managing the slush pile because in all probability, a writer will send the best 12 pages, which might be incredible but mean nothing if the intervening pages are standard slush.

Who would a publisher ask for random pages? If I pick up a book in a store or library, I don't read pages 3, 29 and 285 - that would be pretty disjointed and probably confusing. I read the first few pages to have an idea of how the story begins and what the pacing is like.

agentpaper
08-26-2010, 10:01 PM
No one with an ounce of common sense goes into writing expecting instant commercial success.

Well, maybe you go into it expecting hoping for instant commercial success, but you learn pretty quickly that probably just isn't going to happen. ;)

Theobalddavid
08-27-2010, 01:58 AM
You were being snarky. You're being snarky now by saying that Stacia Kane was reading something into your words you hadn't intended.

Of course, I'm being snarky too and I shouldn't be. Sorry about that. I suggest you look around the AW forums and get involved. We're always happy for a fresh voice and there's a ton to learn and discuss. I hope you don't limit your activity to this particular post.

As for Dailey Swan, I stand by my original statement that the website's music is amateurish. I didn't say anything about the books, just the website--but as others have said, the music is undoubtedly driving potential book-buyers away before they even glance at the first title.


SNARK, SNARK - actually I wasn't being SNARKY - Now I will be - Who knows what lurks in the Hearts of men? That would be Snarky Lamont not Saanen.

I am actually quit envious of those who have gotten published. My first manuscript is rather long and hence in need of trimming. It is a sortie into reminiscence and thus probably not something that those of cerebral urbanity will find sensible. However, it has brought contentment to those of my era that have ventured back with me to a time less encumbered. A century of my peers have read and encouraged me to seek publication. But alas, our pleas have thus far fallen only on deaf ears.

So yes, I am envious of those whose writing faculties outshine mine. SNARK, SNARK.

Rest assured young Saanen this out of touch essayist has reviewed other forums upon this site and will chime in when Mrs. Cranston will have me do so.

epicdave
10-27-2010, 11:25 PM
Does anyone have a current query turn-around time for these guys? I've checked their website and blackhole and came up empty.

victoriastrauss
10-28-2010, 01:20 AM
On Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_st?qid=1288213632&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_30%3Adailey+swan&sort=daterank), Dailey Swan's two September releases both show with long shipping dates--2-4 weeks and 2-5 months. On B&N.com (http://productsearch.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?SRT=DA&WRD=dailey+swan&STORE=BOOK&BOX=dailey+swan&SZE=10&SAT=21), these two books aren't listed at all. This is odd for a publisher that says it has distribution through Midpoint Trade (it would actually be odd even if distribution was just through Ingram and/or B&T).

Slow shipping and inconsistent availability can be trouble signs. I'd suggest watching the two books scheduled for October 31, and the one scheduled for November 15, to see if they get released on time.

- Victoria

Invincibility
10-28-2010, 03:21 AM
BR&BC is a godsend.


words
You're not as subtle as you think you are, Dailey Swan employee. People acting as immaturely as you have in defending publishers really doesn't send a good message to writers. They see someone who whines and complains at people with valid concerns, and go, "Gosh, why would I ever want to publish with them?"


By the way, i did notice a few posts referring to me 'she'. Afraid that would be news to my wife and family :). Get that confusion a lot. Not sure why, name means brave or valient warrior in old celtic. Not sure why somebody would name their daughter Casey with that in mind, but c'est le vie.
Oh, and this was precious too. So very, very precious. No, why would anyone give their daughter a name meaning brave or valiant warrior? The 19th century called, Mr. Robert, it wants its ideals back.

epicdave
10-31-2010, 07:27 PM
On Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_st?qid=1288213632&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_30%3Adailey+swan&sort=daterank), Dailey Swan's two September releases both show with long shipping dates--2-4 weeks and 2-5 months. On B&N.com (http://productsearch.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?SRT=DA&WRD=dailey+swan&STORE=BOOK&BOX=dailey+swan&SZE=10&SAT=21), these two books aren't listed at all. This is odd for a publisher that says it has distribution through Midpoint Trade (it would actually be odd even if distribution was just through Ingram and/or B&T).

Slow shipping and inconsistent availability can be trouble signs. I'd suggest watching the two books scheduled for October 31, and the one scheduled for November 15, to see if they get released on time.

- Victoria


what this a response to me, or a general comment? I'm sent them a query and am just trying to get an idea as to how long they tend to take to accept/reject. As I said earlier, there's nothing (that I found) on their website and nothing on BlackHole

priceless1
10-31-2010, 08:20 PM
On Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_st?qid=1288213632&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_30%3Adailey+swan&sort=daterank), Dailey Swan's two September releases both show with long shipping dates--2-4 weeks and 2-5 months. On B&N.com (http://productsearch.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?SRT=DA&WRD=dailey+swan&STORE=BOOK&BOX=dailey+swan&SZE=10&SAT=21), these two books aren't listed at all. This is odd for a publisher that says it has distribution through Midpoint Trade (it would actually be odd even if distribution was just through Ingram and/or B&T).

Slow shipping and inconsistent availability can be trouble signs. I'd suggest watching the two books scheduled for October 31, and the one scheduled for November 15, to see if they get released on time.

- Victoria
Vic, Midpoint has a couple options: order fulfillment and full representation with the sales teams going out to push their catalogue. We don't know for certain which option they have - which could explain the long ship dates.

Another reason for those ship dates is if the books aren't at Ingram or B&T. I know we've had a run on books and ran out at Ingram. Since Amazon couldn't get the books, that long ship date automatically shows up until more books get shipped to Ingram, then on to Amazon.

As for why the titles aren't listed on B&N, this is troublesome, which leads me to think that Midpoint dropped the ball (unlikely if Daily Swan has the full distribution relatiohship), or Daily Swam did by not getting it listed with B&N.

harperconlon
11-01-2010, 12:10 AM
Hi,

I'm actually here looking for info on Midpoint and found this thread about Dailey Swan. I was at an event where Dailey Swan had a booth. One of his authors was signing copies of a trilogy.

First off, if anyone is interested in basic production values, which is kind of my thing--the books are almost impossible to read without breaking the spine in multiple places. The inner margins look to be about a half-inch and the spines are glued too tightly to open the books, much less hold open and read.

The most recent book in the trilogy, published in July 2010, is 442 pages, 5x8, with what looks like a .6 inch inner margin, tightly glued spine, and a font size that would almost qualify as large print. I compared the font size to several middle grade books I picked up at the same event and it's much larger than the print in those books.

The layout and typesetting make no sense. I mean no sense at all. They seem to be almost anti-clear in the presentation of the text and anti-reader in the choice of margins, font size, formatting, and packaging. The attention to detail is also extremely sloppy. There are so many typos in the chapter headings and subheadings, I'm almost afraid to delve into the actual text.

These books are almost textbooks on what not to do when typesetting and laying out a book.

As far as the actual text . . . there are a lot of novice writer errors. Lots of expositional redundancy and rampant head-hopping (As in, point of view? What's that?) jump off the page. The books are so hard to hold open, I'm not even going to attempt to actually read them.

The owner of the company comes off as being very opinionated and very sure of his information on publishing, which he freely voiced to anyone who would listen. I overheard him insist that major publishers were returning the advances for books that don't pay out. To tell you the truth, I walked away after hearing that, and pitied the poor person who seemed to be believing whatever he was spouting.

Harper

priceless1
11-01-2010, 01:46 AM
Harper, this is interesting on a couple fronts. For starters, independent distributors such as Midpoint, IPG, Consortium, etc. require that prospective clients send in about five different titles with the idea of checking out their product. They check cover design, binding, interior design, page layout, the whole package. They won't represent junk because they can't sell it.

However, some indie distributors have a fulfillment side, which means that they send out book orders that may come in through the publisher's online bookstore, or send books to Ingram and B&T. This side doesn't have sales teams who are pitching their catalogue. It's strictly fulfillment.

If the book was as horrendous as you say, then I'm doubly curious as to their distribution relationship with Midpoint. And this is something authors need to think about. Just because someone says, "I'm with Midpoint," you need to ask them the capacity of that relationship. Order fulfillment means squat to distribution.

Additionally, I can't imagine any publisher whose company is at a point to where they're represented by a Midpoint, etc, would be that woefully undereducated regarding the industry. Which makes me even more dubious about their relationship with Midpoint.

harperconlon
11-01-2010, 04:53 AM
Harper, this is interesting on a couple fronts. For starters, independent distributors such as Midpoint, IPG, Consortium, etc. require that prospective clients send in about five different titles with the idea of checking out their product. They check cover design, binding, interior design, page layout, the whole package. They won't represent junk because they can't sell it.

However, some indie distributors have a fulfillment side, which means that they send out book orders that may come in through the publisher's online bookstore, or send books to Ingram and B&T. This side doesn't have sales teams who are pitching their catalogue. It's strictly fulfillment.

As I originally said, I came upon this thread while researching Midpoint. After seeing these books and hearing Dailey Swan's owner's ideas on publishing, I couldn't help but be less inclined to recommend Midpoint to the publisher I'm doing research for. Not because they're not good or legitimate, but because they might not apply the same level of quality control for all their services. It could potentially harm the credibility of the publishers who have passed their quality control and have full distribution.

Is this really a potential problem? Or am I just over analyzing?


Additionally, I can't imagine any publisher whose company is at a point to where they're represented by a Midpoint, etc, would be that woefully undereducated regarding the industry. Which makes me even more dubious about their relationship with Midpoint.I can verify they're with Midpoint in some way because I also talked to the Midpoint rep at this event as a part of my research. He mentioned Dailey Swan as one of their clients.

Harper

epicdave
11-01-2010, 06:16 PM
for anyone interested - Casey Swan got back to me with an ETA of 6-12 months for a response to queries.

priceless1
11-03-2010, 01:16 AM
I can verify they're with Midpoint in some way because I also talked to the Midpoint rep at this event as a part of my research. He mentioned Dailey Swan as one of their clients.

Harper
Um. Wow. There are no words.

epicdave
11-03-2010, 05:42 PM
Um. Wow. There are no words.

really? that's a funny thing for a writer to say :-P why are there no words in response to a statement pointing out Dailey Swan is with Midpoint?

priceless1
11-03-2010, 07:46 PM
really? that's a funny thing for a writer to say :-P why are there no words in response to a statement pointing out Dailey Swan is with Midpoint?
I'm commenting about what harperconlon had to say about the quality of DS's books. It's true that I'm a writer, but more importantly, I'm a publisher, and I understand the stringent standards we are held to in terms of putting out a quality product. The fact that Midpoint would allow such a substandard book to grace their catalogue leaves me speechless.

CaoPaux
11-03-2010, 09:19 PM
To be fair, it's only been confirmed that they're "a client", not that they're in the catalog for distribution. I think it's safe to bet it's the fulfillment-only side of things.

priceless1
11-03-2010, 09:41 PM
I would agree with this, Cao, as I am familiar with Midpoint's policies. I believe I said somewhere upstream that I suspected they were fulfillment only.

harperconlon
11-03-2010, 10:33 PM
I would agree with this, Cao, as I am familiar with Midpoint's policies. I believe I said somewhere upstream that I suspected they were fulfillment only.

Which leaves me on the fence about recommending Midpoint.

I now wish I had looked at Dailey Swan's other books while I was getting the autographed freebies. I did browse through some of the books at Midpoint's booth and they seemed fine. But they would only have on display their full distribution books.

priceless1
11-04-2010, 04:14 AM
Harperconlon, it's important to establish which relationship DS has with Midpoint. If it's strict fulfillment, then you have no worries because that has nothing to do with sales representation.

I know Midpoint to have some pretty stringent requirements, so if they have the full distribution/sales relationship, then I'm puzzled since you say the quality of the book was so inferior.

Like I said, you need to find out before you nail Midpoint to the wall.

ETA: I retract my earlier comments about Midpoint's stringent standards of operation. Nothing that I can talk about openly, but, well, I take it back.

Vandal
12-05-2010, 06:11 AM
I found an interesting article (http://www.go4funding.com/startup-capital/Manufacturing-and-Production/Growing-Publisher-needs-expansion-capital/P19733.html)about Dailey Swan on Go4Funding.com. It sounds like a positive step, but I'll leave that to the more experienced types:




Growing Publisher needs expansion capital

Funding Needed:
$100k - $250k

Description:
The reason for this for funding request is to fuel our growth and expansion through increased levels of marketing, higher inventory purchase levels, the hiring of 5-12 people over the next year, and to cover seasonal cash flow shortages inherent in the publishing industry. The long term goal for would be a line of credit of up to 1 million dollars that would be seasonally paid off.

Initiative for Business

I’ve been involved with books from an early age. I guess I got that from my dad. When he died my mom passed on to me several stories he had written as a child, she also had some I had written when 7-9 years old. It was hard to tell them apart.

I remember as a kid, it wasn’t just the writing and reading that appealed to me, but putting together collections of other kids work. The genesis of a company was born, even if it did take me another 40 years to realize it.

While in college I began work on my first published piece, “Beyond the fears of tomorrow”. My inspiration for this was Longfellow and Pushkin. I had just finished reading Pushkin’s “Eugene Onegin” for a Russian Literature and said to myself, why not a novel length Science-Fiction poem.

I worked on this piece off and on from 1979. Finally, in the winter of 2004 my wife said “Take some time off and finish your book.” So I did. And Dailey Swan Publishing was born.

Company Description
So what is Dailey Swan Publishing, Inc and what will we be doing?
Welcome to the world of Dailey Swan Publishing. We will be bringing you the best of new authors in the genres we all love. Join us as we search out new lands, ideas, mysteries, and journeys through the universe around us. And we hope, always with a little twist, to keep our lives from becoming mundane.
Publisher Casey Swanson developed the business plan with the support of the West Contra Costa Business Development Center. This built in part on Casey Swanson’s two years running U.S. operations for a Canadian publisher and three years as a publisher’s representative. Since that time new thought has gone in as well concerning the changing conditions of the publishing industry.

Launched in 2006 at the BayCon science fiction convention in San Jose, Dailey Swan Publishing now has over 40 authors under contract for 50 titles; 30 titles are available now, with 12 scheduled for 2011, and 5 so far scheduled for 2012.

The company distributes trade paperback books primarily through MidPoint Trade Books, Ingram Books, Baker and Taylor, and other regional distributors. In Europe our books are distributed through Gazelle. Although the books are available through the large chains and Amazon, the company emphasizes sales through independent bookstores and is an active member of Indie-Bound, the independent bookstore organization. Dailey Swan is currently a member of 4 regional bookstore trade groups and plans on being a member of all 14 by the end of 2011. As part of this, Dailey Swan will be taking advantage of a new program where copies of our 4 major releases for 2011 will go to the 450 largest indie stores for review and recommendation.

Not unique, but still being embraced by the industry, is our use of the latest technology. We are trying to look beyond the dinosaur age of the publishing industry to embrace new changes in technology that will allow us to continue to grow and prosper. We begin with the digital world. No longer do we use rotary presses but digital presses, printing not of plates but digital PDF templates of the books. Not to be confused with the vast and growing world of self-publication, where there are thousands of digital copiers printing books on demand for authors, these are multi-million dollar printers using inkjets. For this we are lucky to have a close relationship with our printer, Total Print Systems, located in Southern Illinois.

E-Books in over 150 formats, including Kindle, Barnes and Noble, Borders, and all major US, European, and Asian formats, are available through Scribd. We will our own proprietary pdf’s of the 6 major formats of e-books for sales of the Dailey Swan and other sites for all titles by mid-2011.
The company intends to be a major player in publishing with titles in multiple genres categories; including Science-Fiction, Fantasy, Mystery, Horror, New Poets, Non-Fiction, Euro-Fiction (2012 releases), Children’s (2013), and Golden Age (2014 ).
With gross profit margins running to 50 per cent in the publishing industry, Dailey Swan projects selling 200,000 books in 2011, excluding our offering of our titles as e-books. We will be using the Internet for publicity and promotion, including podcasting books.

Target Market and Marketing Strategy
The target market for Dailey Swan Publishing will be readers from 12 and up interested in reading books. Because of the large carryover to the graphic novel industry, we will be using known graphic novelists for our cover and interior illustration work. In 2012 we are introducing a hybrid Young Adult (YA)book, it reads like a graphic novel with limited illustrations.
To help achieve our goals we are enlisting a network of independent publishers’ reps through the national organization of which we are a member. This should be in place for 2011.

We are a member of Independent Book Publishers Association, a source of knowledge and publicity.
Our competition exists primarily of a complementary nature. At the conventions we have attended the other more established small press’s were eager to help and share there knowledge and experiences. It’s in everybody’s interest the market for books, in all of their formats, continue to grow.

A network of reviewers interested in covering our line is being established and the first reviews are coming in.

We are pursuing a steady growth strategy of working primarily with different markets each year; in year 1 developing an initiative with the independent book stores around the country. In year 2 we added Borders and Barnes and Nobles chains and their affiliates. Ingram joined us in 2009 after our attendance at the national trade show in New York. We have since had our first sales to Books-a-million and Hastings. All books are available through Amazon.com and other e-bookstores and through Scribd as e-books.

Podcasting of selections will begin in 2011 as well on ours and affiliated web-sites. (Podcasting is a voice reading of a 3-5 minute selection of each title. This is then available on the website. We have a professional voice who is willing to do it for $50.00 per title.) A short sample is now up on our website.
In 2010 we began our short story program. Our goal is to publish 40-50 short stories on-line per year with the readers favorites published in an annual mixed genre anthology. Both Publishers Weekly and Midpoint are excited to see how it turns out. The program has already dramatically increased traffic to our site and our Scribd site www.scribd.com/daileyswan (http://www.scribd.com/daileyswan).

Also for 2011, Dailey Swan is working to build a national sales force through the National Association of Independent Publisher Representatives
The book market is unique in that we are dealing with two intertwined buying entities, the Bookstores and the buying public.

Social marketing through the internet has become a huge source of marketing opportunities for authors. From the giants such as Facebook and Scribd, to the hundreds, if not thousands of author and fan based sites; this expansion of the internet has brought new forces into play that we plan on taking full advantage of through our authors. At the same time we will not be ignoring the traditional author outlets of book signing and fan based events, both of which we plan major expansions of in 2011 and beyond. Our authors take an active part in this, planning signing, finding fan based events, participating in the shows introducing and selling their books.

Business Operations

The publishing industry runs on cycles based on the production cycle of books and the seasonal buying cycles of the industry.
Our business is based to a large part on the continuously expanding nature of today’s technology enabling us to fully utilize the concept of just in time marketing.

With our printer in Southern Illinois and our Master Distributor across the state of Missouri in Kansas City, we can maintain minimum inventory levels bases on projected need, and for first runs on preorders, and know we can always get product to the stores in a reasonable time.

The Book Project Time Line

Continuous Reading manuscripts
18 months to publication Title is chosen
Contract sent to author
Social marketing begins by author
12 months to publication ISBN Number assigned
Authors Word File Arrives
Cover artist is selected (1/2 Paid)
9 months to publication First editing
8 months to publication Book build begins
7 months to Publication Cover is finished
Marketing Synopsis is prepared
Presentation to major buyers
Marketing to bookstores begins

4 months to publication Book back to author for review
3 months to publication Line editor reviews build w/Any author changes done
Galley Proof to Publishers Weekly and MidPoint
PDF files to Total Print
Galley Proofs reviewed
Prepress run done and sent to author (100) and Indie Bound reviewers (450)
2 months to publication Order to printer based on preorders
1 month to publication Books received at midpoint
Books to Ingram, Baker and Taylor and other preorders
Books sent to reviewers
Publication date Book for sale in stores
4 months from release First receivables
5 months from the release First midpoint receivables

October each year a catalogue is prepared for bookstores and reps highlighting the next year’s releases and back list titles.
(October is when regional associations hold there events.)

April each year, finish marketing preparations for that years BEA (National Book Show)


Management and organization

Casey Swanson

From 1978 to 1980 I ran the US distribution center for a Canadian Publisher.
From 1980 to 1983 I worked as a publisher’s representative. Unfortunately at that time there was no national organization of reps to coordinate things. I remember I went to my first National Book Association convention with two book lines in hand and no room to stay. I ended up being put up in a suite by a publisher and leaving with eight lines to represent when I left.

I have a BA in History and Russian Area Studies from the University of Washington.
Among other programs I have been through professional and managerial training programs with Keebler, Prudential, Providian, Aflac, and Lithia Motors.
I have 20+ years of experience managing sales units and companies

Gordon Swanson

Gordon has won numerous awards in design and is our leading force in book design and graphic marketing needs. With his Windward Design graphic art’s company he has remained on the edge of current tools and development.


Outside Help

We contract out with our cover artist on a per project basis.


Manpower Needs

We look to hire 5 people over the next year to help with the following;
event planning, book building, graphic design and cover layout, editing, accounting, marketing, web design and maintenance, and internet marketing.
Positions will range in salary for $25,000 to $45,000 per year ( current industry averages per PW, July issue)

Critical Risks and issues

Including all aspects of sales, the publishing industry remains strong with its multiple formats of hard-cover, paperback, trade-paperback, e-book and audio book sales. Even during this recessionary period we have seen sales in the categories we do business in, trade paperback and e-books, increase in volume.
The main risk, being an entertainment item, is the reception of our titles by the book buying public. The risk in minimized by several factors; a strong backlist, using the principles of just in time to maintain minimum inventory levels for all titles, Publishing 12 titles a year (we would like to see this number increase over time), and not paying authors advances for titles the publish. That last idea may seem out of place in the industry, but advances can tie up huge cash reserves for the publisher with no guarantee of results. And we have been able to sign several notable authors such as John Baker of CNN and Pulitzer Prize winner William Beecher , author of The Acorn Dossier, without them.

Throughout our process risk is minimized and with our strategies in place we can move our resources quickly from a failing title to one which needs more marketing help.

DreamWeaver
12-05-2010, 06:52 AM
Leaving out the ideas, and going from a purely publishing-mechanics point of view, I wish he'd had one of his editors go over that before he posted it. A publisher sells writing, so anything written acts as a sample of their competence. A publisher's proposal should not contain typos, missing words, incorrect punctuation and run-on sentences.

I'm sorry if that sounds snarky, but it's like a surgeon referring to a scalpel as "that sharp cutty thing." He might be an excellent surgeon, but it just doesn't instill confidence.

priceless1
12-05-2010, 07:04 AM
Personally, I don't find this all that positive because they don't have an established, solid business plan or stellar track record that will attract investors. To me, this reads like, "if you give me all this money, I'll be able to do all these really cool things that will make us successful." First thing I'd be saying is, "prove it to me." Investors want a darn sure deal, not a cross-your-fingers endeavor. Publishing is one risky business, and I wonder what will become of this company if they don't get their investors.

victoriastrauss
12-05-2010, 09:08 PM
I've received information that strongly suggests that Dailey Swan has had financial trouble, resulting in delayed publication dates...so looking at the funding request in that light, it may not be so positive.

I checked Amazon again (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_st?qid=1288213632&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_30%3Adailey+swan&sort=daterank). All Dailey Swan's most recent releases (5 books with pub dates in September, October, and November) have long shipping times: 4-6 weeks, 1-4 months, and 2-6 months (by contrast, books with pub dates through August are in stock). I found just one of those 5 books on Barnes & Noble's website (In Lieu of Light by Wayne Jackson, with a different cover and a pub date over 2 years earlier than on Amazon). Of the other four, there's no sign.

It looks to me as if whatever circumstances have caused shipping delays for Dailey Swan's most recent titles hasn't changed or been fixed. Financial problems? Troubles with the distributor? Have these books actually even been published? There's no way to know. But it doesn't look very positive, IMO--and I'm also concerned that despite these issues, Daily Swan has scheduled 3 new books to be published in 2011.

- Victoria

priceless1
12-05-2010, 11:52 PM
Amazon won't stock titles with low demand in their own warehouse. If orders come in, they rely on Ingram and Baker & Taylor to fulfill those orders. If there is no stock at Ingram or Baker & Taylor, then the delivery delay notice kicks in on Amazon's site.

It's possible DS lacks enough money to provide print runs. This will be compounded if they aren't coordinating with the Ingram and B&T buyers. All the databases will simply show out of stock. These facts should make any investor extremely wary.

DreamWeaver
12-06-2010, 01:09 AM
It's possible DS lacks enough money to provide print runs. I have to admit, when I read about "just in time" supply plans in their funding proposal, I assumed that meant they were printing their books on demand, without print runs at all.


using the principles of just in time to maintain minimum inventory levels for all titles

I guess it's in how one defines "minimum".

MartinD
01-29-2011, 07:44 PM
Has anyone heard about this publisher lately?

Vandal
02-16-2011, 07:58 AM
Has anyone heard about this publisher lately?


According to the publisher, they are currently moving all of their titles' epub editions to IndieBound.org

victoriastrauss
02-16-2011, 11:09 PM
According to the publisher, they are currently moving all of their titles' epub editions to IndieBound.org

What this appears to mean is that the Dailey Swan website's buy buttons now lead to Indiebound, rather than to Amazon or B&N. (They don't appear to have any e-editions, just print.)

- Victoria

Vandal
10-12-2011, 07:09 AM
The publisher recently sent a letter to all his authors saying Dailey Swan is declaring bankruptcy. At the last minute, he changed his business model to an author/publisher co-op in which the author can fork over $1200 to $3500 for the privilege of being published by Dailey Swan.

Those who choose not to join in this venture can be released from their contracts.

IceCreamEmpress
10-12-2011, 10:03 AM
The publisher recently sent a letter to all his authors saying Dailey Swan is declaring bankruptcy. At the last minute, he changed his business model to an author/publisher co-op in which the author can fork over $1200 to $3500 for the privilege of being published by Dailey Swan.

I would think that a major change of business model like that would not be allowed once bankruptcy proceedings had been commenced, which makes me wonder if he is actually declaring bankruptcy or simply threatening bankruptcy.


Those who choose not to join in this venture can be released from their contracts.

Everyone should ask to be released from their contracts! Also, if a Dailey Swan author felt comfortable sharing the letter itself here, I would be excited just to witness such a breathtaking example of chutzpah in action.

priceless1
10-12-2011, 06:18 PM
he changed his business model to an author/publisher co-op in which the author can fork over $1200 to $3500 for the privilege of being published by Dailey Swan.


Just to be very clear here, there is nothing "co-op" about this. This is straight vanity/pay-to-play publishing.

Momento Mori
10-12-2011, 06:34 PM
Vandal:
The publisher recently sent a letter to all his authors saying Dailey Swan is declaring bankruptcy. At the last minute, he changed his business model to an author/publisher co-op in which the author can fork over $1200 to $3500 for the privilege of being published by Dailey Swan.

I would love to get an opinion from a Washington State insolvency practitioner on this. Under English law, if a company knows that it's about to go bankrupt then there are certain things that it has to do for its creditors - it can't simply try shaking down people for cash.

If I was a Daily Swan author, I'd tell Casey to give me my rights back and then take a flying jump.

MM

victoriastrauss
10-12-2011, 08:01 PM
The publisher recently sent a letter to all his authors saying Dailey Swan is declaring bankruptcy. At the last minute, he changed his business model to an author/publisher co-op in which the author can fork over $1200 to $3500 for the privilege of being published by Dailey Swan.

Honestly, I'm not surprised at this turn of events. I would be surprised if he actually declares bankruptcy, though. That's not typical with small press failures.

Edited to add: Just blogged about the changes at Dailey Swan (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2011/10/alerts-lobster-press-and-dailey-swan.html), with details of the new business model.

- Victoria

WilRadcliffe
03-12-2013, 08:54 PM
If you browse the Dailey Swan Publishing Web Site you may stumble across this sentence in their About Us section: "Eric Smith and Wil Radcliffe have provided a frequent added help to our marketing efforts."

While I can't speak for Eric Smith, I must clarify that I am no longer associated with Dailey Swan Publishing. Additionally, any marketing I may have done for them was exclusively for my own novel, Noggle Stones, which was briefly published by Dailey Swan from 2008 to 2010. I severed my relationship with Dailey Swan in 2011. Dailey Swan Publishing no longer represents Noggle Stones or any of my other interests.

I was never employed or contracted by Dailey Swan to provide any marketing services. Additionally, I do not endorse Dailey Swan Publishing, nor do I recommend doing business with them.

annetookeen
08-17-2013, 09:28 AM
Anyone have recent experience with this pub? Thanks!:)

Polenth
08-17-2013, 11:02 AM
Anyone have recent experience with this pub? Thanks!:)

There's threatening bankruptcy, charging authors fees, not listing that fees are charged on the website and poor editing that introduces errors (see this review left by the author (http://www.amazon.com/Why-Fall-Sabotage-Career-Relationships/product-reviews/0982976917/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0)). Even if someone posted an experience from last month that didn't sound too bad, it wouldn't make this press a good idea.

annetookeen
08-19-2013, 11:04 AM
Whoa, angry author on that page!

WilRadcliffe
08-28-2013, 05:57 PM
It's also worth noting that while Dailey Swan is still listed as a publisher on the Midpoint web site, their publisher page says: "No books active."

http://www.midpointtrade.com/publisher.php?id=101

WilRadcliffe
09-09-2013, 08:51 PM
Well, straight from the publisher's web site...

http://www.daileyswanpublishing.com/

"As of September 1, 2013 Dailey Swan Publishing, Inc. has ceased operations."

Vandal
09-10-2013, 08:42 PM
Good riddance!