Waiting's even worse (warning: rant)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Solatium

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
837
Reaction score
57
Location
Montana
Is it just me, or is just waiting for the rejection even more stressful than actually receiving it?

I kind of enjoy rejection letters, actually -- all kinds of them. There are the really helpful ones that actually give you good advice on the story. There are the misguided, irrelevant "helpful" ones that let you get away with telling yourself the editor as an idiot. There are the crude, insulting ones that let you know she really is. Even form rejection slips mean, at least, that you can send your manuscript out again.

But the time between -- ugh. Especially when the stated response time has come -- or is about to go -- and you begin to wonder exactly what indignities they're inflicting on your manuscript, that it's taking so long.

*bites lip*

.
.
.

Okay. No more. I just wanted to get that off my chest.
 

Kudra

Back and on track
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
383
Location
London
Website
www.TheInternationalFreelancer.com
I hear ya! In fact, I'm like you, too. I'd rather know whether I'm in or out quickly than have to wait months for the final verdict. I think that's the case because like you, rejections don't have any effect on me other than to motivate me to submit elsewhere.
 

Mihoshi

Registered
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
45
Reaction score
4
I hate to wait, but at least when I'm waiting I can convince myself that it's a great book that I'll send out 1000 times if I have to to get it published. But when the rejection comes I just feel like crying and deleting the project. I never do, but I hate that first feeling after you read a rejection letter.

To me, ignorance is bliss and denial keeps me going - as long as I'm not waiting to send the proposal out to another publisher that is.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
Waiting

Solatium said:
Is it just me, or is just waiting for the rejection even more stressful than actually receiving it?

I kind of enjoy rejection letters, actually -- all kinds of them. There are the really helpful ones that actually give you good advice on the story. There are the misguided, irrelevant "helpful" ones that let you get away with telling yourself the editor as an idiot. There are the crude, insulting ones that let you know she really is. Even form rejection slips mean, at least, that you can send your manuscript out again.

But the time between -- ugh. Especially when the stated response time has come -- or is about to go -- and you begin to wonder exactly what indignities they're inflicting on your manuscript, that it's taking so long.

*bites lip*

.
.
.

Okay. No more. I just wanted to get that off my chest.

The trick is to not wait. Stay so busy writing and submitting other projects that you forget all about any specific story. "Submit & Forget." If yu keep working hard, it doesn't take long before you're hearing from someone every week.
 

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
43,746
Reaction score
8,652
Location
Los Angeles
Website
www.amazon.com
Yup. I don't wait anymore. Or at least I try not to. I keep myself busy. Most of the time, I don't even remember until they send me something (rejection, usually).

Edit:
To be fair, though, I've had some good experiences. Most agents did respond within the timeframe they posted. My publisher responded as promised. They told me they would respond to my full ms within 6 weeks. By the end of the 6th week, I got an answer. I was very impressed by their professionalism.
 

clara bow

Li'l Rug Bug
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
2,046
Reaction score
474
Location
Arkham Asylum
Love the rejections; hate the wait. I grew so tired of waiting recently that I decided to convert one of my husband's and my scripts into a chick lit novel, because, oddly enough, it might work better that way. Now I can't wait to send it off!

Visiting this site helps alleviate the wait, too.
 

dragonjax

I write stuff and break boards.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
3,421
Reaction score
370
Age
53
Location
New Yawk
Website
www.jackiekessler.com
Waiting = bad, and probably fattening
Writing = good, and possibly fattening

I'll take the possible over the probable any day.

Now, where's the chocolate...?
 

Solatium

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
837
Reaction score
57
Location
Montana
Jamesaritchie said:
The trick is to not wait. Stay so busy writing and submitting other projects that you forget all about any specific story. "Submit & Forget." If yu keep working hard, it doesn't take long before you're hearing from someone every week.
See, I can't do that. Even when I'm working, even when I get a response back, the knowledge that there are places I haven't heard back from yet gets on my nerves.

Of course, the only permanent cure for that would be to stop submitting -- which is unthinkable.

ETA:
Waiting = bad, and probably fattening
Writing = good, and possibly fattening
So, writing-while-waiting = good, and probably fattening ?
 
Last edited:

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
Solatium said:
See, I can't do that. Even when I'm working, even when I get a response back, the knowledge that there are places I haven't heard back from yet gets on my nerves.

Of course, the only permanent cure for that would be to stop submitting -- which is unthinkable.

ETA:

So, writing-while-waiting = good, and probably fattening ?

It gets easier with time and enough submissions. I once sold a short story that had been out so long (2+ years) that I'd forgotten I even wrote it. When the acceptance letter came, I had to go through my records to make sure there wasn't some mistake because I didn't remember the title or the story.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
Waiting

blacbird said:
Only if there's an acceptance mixed in now and then.

Yes, you're probably correct. I never went through a no acceptance period, but it would seem that knowing you've sold something before would make waiting easier.
 

Solatium

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
837
Reaction score
57
Location
Montana
Yeah. Part of my problem with waiting is the glum knowledge that it's going to get rejected -- and I have to wait four months for that?

Having made one sale doesn't help, at least not in my case -- seeing as it was in another genre and to a market with, well, "different" standards.
 

clara bow

Li'l Rug Bug
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
2,046
Reaction score
474
Location
Arkham Asylum
Solatium said:
See, I can't do that. Even when I'm working, even when I get a response back, the knowledge that there are places I haven't heard back from yet gets on my nerves.QUOTE]

Sometimes I get fixated like that, too. I literally have to ask my husband to tell me to knock it off! No, really! I also try and figure out why I'm so fixated (e.g., financial worries, job stress, whatever). I tend to channel my anxieties into writing/submitting, but when that runs out or a dry spell hits it can be difficult. I think a big part of the issue is how one is thinking about the situation. You are choosing to dwell on certain thoughts more than others. I would challenge you to ask yourself why that is. You are choosing to think these thoughts ten times a day instead of one. What goal is being accomplished by thinking the same thoughts over and over? We have LOTS of control over our thoughts! Find some replacement thoughts to kick out the ones that lead you to dwell on the unreturned rejections.

Now I need to go practice what I preach, har har! ;)
 

smallthunder

Ruled by Dachshunds
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
668
Reaction score
60
Location
New to Portland, OREGON
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhh!

No, anguished cries do not help one deal with the waiting.

(I thought it was worth a try, though.)
 

Birol

Around and About
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
14,759
Reaction score
2,998
Location
That's a good question right now.
blacbird said:
Only if there's an acceptance mixed in now and then.

What can we do to help you get your first elusive acceptance so you can kick yourself out of this semi-permanent pity party you seem to be stuck in?
 

dragonjax

I write stuff and break boards.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
3,421
Reaction score
370
Age
53
Location
New Yawk
Website
www.jackiekessler.com
Solatium said:
Yeah. Part of my problem with waiting is the glum knowledge that it's going to get rejected -- and I have to wait four months for that?
There's something to be said about a self-fulfilling prophecy. Solatium, if you're not positive your work is ready to be published, then it may be that you're not sending out your best efforts.

If this absolutely is your best work, then why are you so positive that it will be rejected?

There's a huge difference between being nervous about rejection (or even dreading/fearing rejection) and "knowing" that your work will be rejected. Why are you being so negative about your work, instead of your own biggest fan?
 

Solatium

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
837
Reaction score
57
Location
Montana
dragonjax said:
If this absolutely is your best work, then why are you so positive that it will be rejected?
Because I am an unseasoned novice without even much natural talent. I may do good work someday, but so far even my best isn't very good.

There's a huge difference between being nervous about rejection (or even dreading/fearing rejection) and "knowing" that your work will be rejected. Why are you being so negative about your work, instead of your own biggest fan?
"Know" might be a rather strong word: let's say that I have good reasons to think that none of my stories-of-now are good enough to be published.

One reason: I know I am constantly improving. The stories I write now are, I believe, better than the ones I wrote even a year ago. But a year ago I thought I was doing just fine! Therefore, it's reasonable to suppose that I'm not as good as I think I am now -- and that even though I think my stories-of-now are publishable, they're actually not. The stories I write in the future very well may be, but I won't find that out until they start getting accepted.

Another, more compelling, reason: Some of these stories have been rejected before, strong, specific rejections that make it plain the story is irreparably flawed -- not merely "just not for us," but "just not for anybody."

So why do I keep submitting? First, because (as I said above) I won't know whether my stories have become publishable until they begin to be published. Second, because I could really use the money, the credit, and the salutary ego boost that would come were an editor to suffer some horrible lapse of judgment and accept one of my stories-of-now.

So how do I "know"? The same way I "know" I'm not going to win the lottery. The odds are incredible, but buying a ticket sure doesn't hurt.
 

Birol

Around and About
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
14,759
Reaction score
2,998
Location
That's a good question right now.
Solatium said:
Because I am an unseasoned novice without even much natural talent. I may do good work someday, but so far even my best isn't very good.

Your posts do not support this statement. Keep submitting. I predict it will be less time than you think until you receive your first acceptance.
 

Solatium

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
837
Reaction score
57
Location
Montana
My posts show only that I'm good at bullshitting on my own behalf. Fiction is about getting the characters to bullshit for you, which is quite another thing.
 

Birol

Around and About
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
14,759
Reaction score
2,998
Location
That's a good question right now.
No, they show you can write. Storytelling is a different skill, but it sounds like if you haven't mastered it yet, you will one day. When you do, stop by and give me some pointers, okay?
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
Birol said:
What can we do to help you get your first elusive acceptance so you can kick yourself out of this semi-permanent pity party you seem to be stuck in?

Dunno. I just tend to have a badreaction to platitudes from writers who have had little trouble breaking into publishing that get echoed down to those of us who have never got there. I know they are well-meaning, but they're not very helpful, and occasionally downright wrong, in my experience. Now, I'm willing to admit that the reason for this disparity is that my writing sucks, at least from any audience or market standpoint, and the writing of those who are regularly published does not, and therein lies the problem. I've about arrived at the conclusion that it isn't a fixable problem.

bird
 

Birol

Around and About
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
14,759
Reaction score
2,998
Location
That's a good question right now.
blacbird said:
Dunno. I just tend to have a badreaction to platitudes from writers who have had little trouble breaking into publishing that get echoed down to those of us who have never got there. I know they are well-meaning, but they're not very helpful, and occasionally downright wrong, in my experience. Now, I'm willing to admit that the reason for this disparity is that my writing sucks, at least from any audience or market standpoint, and the writing of those who are regularly published does not, and therein lies the problem. I've about arrived at the conclusion that it isn't a fixable problem.

I will admit that I had relatively little trouble getting published professionally the first time out, but I aimed small and built on that success. I would also argue that before I ever had the courage to sub anything, I worked hard to perfect my craft. I've learned, too, that the further I climb, the more likely I am to get rejected.

But that's just me. As for some of the other professionally published writers around here, do you know how many times some of them got rejected before getting published professionally as a freelancer? I know the stories behind one or two of them. Some of them that I admire, like aka eraser, I could not tell you the exact path they took to reach the point they are at today. It could be that what you call "platitudes" are merely the voice of experience.

At least a few of us "regularly published" writers have offered to look at your work if you wanted us to do so. All you have to do is post a sample in SYW and let us know it is there to help you figure out if there is something with the writing or if you need to approach different markets or what.

As far as writing sucking, I can tell you mine often sucks. At least I think so. If the publications do not, well, I'll take their money, but I'll also continue to try to learn and grow because one day I want to get it right just once.

Now the question for you is: What are you doing to improve? Are you taking advantage of the opportunities to learn and grow that are presented? I haven't seen any signs of you doing so. I just see you hanging out in Rejection/Dejection and growing increasingly bitter because you haven't had your first acceptance yet.

So what are you going to do next? Make another sulky comment, lash out at me for posting this, or accept the offers of help that have been made?
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
Acceptance

Birol said:
What can we do to help you get your first elusive acceptance so you can kick yourself out of this semi-permanent pity party you seem to be stuck in?

In truth, sometimes nothing helps, and outside of the usual advice of reading, and studying everything you can get your hands on, and writing each and every day, there are only two pieces of advice I'd offer. If you've already done both, sorry, but they works for many.

The first is simple to say, sometimes difficult to do. Go back to school. By hook or by crook, get yourself into some real writing courses run by real published writers who will demand you work and study hard, and who will bpth push and encourage you.

The second piece of advice works better after you've done the first, but I've seen it work for several writers who ignored the first.

Pick one magazine that you really like. Preferably a mid-size magazine.

Now get your hands on as many back issues as possible. At least a dozen, and two dozen is much better. Three dozen is better yet. Read every story straight through. Now go back with pen and paper in hand and dissect every story. Make a list.

1. What does the main character do for a living?
2. Is the main character male or female.
3. What kind of person is the main character?
4. Where does the story take place?
5. Write a one sentence plot of each story.
6. Do the themes of each story seem to be pro this or con that?
7. How many are third person limited, first person, etc.
8. Ignoring novelettes, what is the average length of the stories?
9. Do most stories have happy endings?
10. How are sex and violence handled?
11. Etc. Write down any otehr question that strike you as important.

Now write a story that changes everything except average length and type of story. Come up with a protagonist who does something different for a living, who doesn't have the usual personality, and who make not look like the average protagonist.

Find a setting/location that didn't appear in any of the stories. And I don't just mean one more big city, unless it's a really unusual big city, and you can paint it as such. Where you live might be the perfect setting. So might some unusal workplace you've been. What may be a commonplace job and a mundane setting to you might well be exotic to an editor and her readers.

The truest saying in publishing is that "editors want something just like everything else. . .only different." If you give them the right "different," your story will jump well ahead of other writers who are submitting.

Now, write a story for this magazine based on the differences and submit it. Then write another and another and another and another, all for this same magazine. Send them at least one story a month for a year.

I do not guarantee a sale with this method, but if you aren't getting some solid encouragement from the editor before the year is up, well, you're really doing something wrong.

Writing publishable fiction does come easier for some than for others, and many never can learn to do it. Just a shade over 90% of all who try writing fixtion will never, ever sell anything. But whether it comes easy or hard, the same elements go into it. That's why the platitudes are there. They either work, or it's likely nothing will work.

But the thing is this: Yes, I had no trouble breaking into fiction. As a high school dropout, and with no knowledge of grammar, and with no dream at all of being a writer, I studied grammar for about three wekks, wrote a short story in two days, and it sold first time out to a national magazine.

I don't know why or how I was able to do this, or why the next couple of short stories and a novel written in three weeks all sold just as easily. I don't believe for a second it was because I had talent oozing from my pores. I strongly believe it was because I did have an innate sense of what a story really is, and what editors really wanted.

I don't believe talent can be learned, but I do believe a strong, accurate sense of story and structure and of what editors want can be learned. And I believe much talent is wasted because the writer doesn't put enough importance on education, and on study, dissection, and specific targeting in order to learn more about story, and more about what editors really want.

I also know this beyond doubt; to keep going, to stay successful, to sell to more and more markets, I had to take both pieces of advice. I had to get more education, and I had to read and dissect magazines, and learn how to consistently give editors the kind of stories they wanted, only different.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.