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Dreaming
03-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Greetings folks!

So here's the scenario:
You took your friend out for his/her birthday last year. Spent about $60 on the total bill at a fairly nice restaurant. Now YOUR bday is coming up.
Your friend wants to return the favor and invites you out to dinner on Friday. But on Thursday, your friend finds out her job is now at stake. There are no concrete details yet, but there's definitely a reason to be concerned.

Your friend apologizes that she has to cancel dinner given her financial uncertainty, but still wants to go out with you - maybe do something free.
She finds out about a free comedy show and invites you. You get there and discover there's a two drink minimum. Drinks start at $5 and up. You say, "we can leave if you want, I understand." But she tells you it's okay. And to make up for not being able to take her out to dinner, she offers to pay for her drinks which add up to $20. My question is: Would you accept her footing the total bill of $35?

(I'll tell you why I have such a petty question after I get some responses from you guys. Thanks!)

Kitty Pryde
03-03-2009, 10:01 PM
If someone offered to pay, accept it. If she couldn't afford, she wouldn't offer. Also, letting people pay for stuff is in a way a nice thing to do, because it makes them feel generous and good.

Wayne K
03-03-2009, 10:01 PM
A gift is something that we've trned strange (Buy your wife a Jaguar this Christmas) all that. Yeaccch. Why not split it? We're all having a tough time and the only way to tough it out is together.If the bill is going to hurt your friend it's going to make you feel guilty, not happy.
ETA: a cliffhanger post? Very clever.

James81
03-03-2009, 10:06 PM
Absolutely. In fact, I'd probably be upset if she DIDN'T foot the bill.

Well, not upset, but it would make me pay more attention to who's footing what bills when we go out.

Question: Are you male or female?

alleycat
03-03-2009, 10:07 PM
If she had been a close friend of mine, I would have probably told her to forget about buying my drinks since things are iffy for her at the moment. However, there wouldn't have been anything really wrong with taking her up on her offer; in the grand scheme of things the additional $15 or $20 isn't that much. She might be facing a hardship if she loses her job; but not because of this amount of money.

Greenwolf103
03-03-2009, 10:13 PM
I wouldn't worry about it. Your friend might've felt guilty about not being able to do the dinner thing. Besides, maybe she knows you'll be there for her if/when the ball drops.

I hope you both had a good time. :)

regdog
03-03-2009, 10:29 PM
How much a person spends on a good friend isn't a benchmark of the friendship. Being understanding of a friend's possible financial hardship is.

Wayne K
03-03-2009, 10:39 PM
How much a person spends on a good friend isn't a benchmark of the friendship. Being understanding of a friend's possible financial hardship is.
QFT.

Kitty Pryde
03-03-2009, 10:44 PM
How much a person spends on a good friend isn't a benchmark of the friendship. Being understanding of a friend's possible financial hardship is.

yes buuuuuut the friend is an adult. and so able to make up her mind if she can afford a couple of drinks. and also an equal, so she's not being coerced into buying said drinks. sounds like everything was entirely voluntary and the friend was free to say, sorry, I can't pay for you tonight. Or to say, I cooked your favorite meal at home! but instead she CHOSE to offer to buy some drinks.

Also $35 is not the most massive sum. I would give that much to a friend in an instant, should said friend come up $35 short on rent or something.

Clair Dickson
03-03-2009, 11:04 PM
Yes. Though, I would never have bothered to keep track of how much money is spent.

If I had a friend who insisted on paying, then I would allow them to do so. They may be struggling financially, but only they know how bad it is. And I wouldn't want to strip them of pride when they're likely already struggling to save face.

I'm sure there's more here and I am interested in finding out what this is about. =)

Atani
03-03-2009, 11:07 PM
I'd say simply accept or offer to just each pay for your own. Spending time out together was the point anyway, right?

Dreaming
03-03-2009, 11:43 PM
Greetings folks!

Thanks for all of your wise input. This was not meant to be a cliffhanger post. I just didn't want to sway your opinion with my own.

I don't think I told the story right. I am the one actually in the middle of an iffy job situation. The friend knows I don't make a whole lot of money to begin with. But I remember her grumbling about another friend who EXPECTED her to take him out after he took her out, and she says she HATES tit for tat people. But when her bday was around the corner, she found a way to slip that fact in on two totally transparent occassions. "yeah, since my bday is coming up in two more weeks." NO DUH?

In any case, if the shoe were on the other foot, I would've told my friend that I could buy my own drinks knowing that every dime counts (I live in an expensive city, ya'll!) But a good point I got from here is that maybe she didn't want to hurt my pride.

Of course this whole thing wouldn't be an issue if this were a CLOSE friend. I'm much more forgiving (and GIVING) with them. But I've had little incidents with this "friend" before which has me questioning our union at times. *shrug*

But like I said, thanks you guys! :)

Wayne K
03-03-2009, 11:59 PM
she HATES tit for tat people :)
I hate them too. Because they won't tell me what tat is, or how to exchange it for the other.

Dreaming
03-04-2009, 12:32 AM
Haha, you're funny Wayne.

Is it just me, or do you find that people who are VERY vocal and INSIST they are NOT this way - are in fact, that way? Across the board.

Pay close attention to what folks rant against. I tell ya!

Wayne K
03-04-2009, 12:33 AM
That's why I hate loudmouths so much!!!

Shadow_Ferret
03-04-2009, 01:59 AM
You took your friend out for his/her birthday last year. Spent about $60 on the total bill at a fairly nice restaurant.



Of course this whole thing wouldn't be an issue if this were a CLOSE friend.

I'm a cheap SOB. I only take close friends out for dinner. Not just near friends or acquaintances. And since they're close friends, they understand the gesture is one of friendship and no reciprocation is expected.

WittyWordsmith
03-04-2009, 02:09 AM
Haha, you're funny Wayne.

Is it just me, or do you find that people who are VERY vocal and INSIST they are NOT this way - are in fact, that way? Across the board.

Pay close attention to what folks rant against. I tell ya!


I AGREE 10000%.

I have friends like this and it drives me nutso. The louder they squeal the more they are a culprit.

Susie
03-04-2009, 03:23 AM
Haha, you're funny Wayne.

Is it just me, or do you find that people who are VERY vocal and INSIST they are NOT this way - are in fact, that way? Across the board.

Pay close attention to what folks rant against. I tell ya!

You're talkin' about me, Dreaming, aren't you? :D

Wayne K
03-04-2009, 03:26 AM
:D
You're talkin' about me, Dreaming, aren't you? :D
Yes Susie we all know that you secretly hate chocolate and cake and cookies, you want to fatten us all up and you have a book titled "How to serve man":D

Susie
03-04-2009, 03:43 AM
Yep, that's true, Wayne. I thought I mentioned that was our secret? :D That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :D

James81
03-04-2009, 05:38 AM
Greetings folks!

Thanks for all of your wise input. This was not meant to be a cliffhanger post. I just didn't want to sway your opinion with my own.

I don't think I told the story right. I am the one actually in the middle of an iffy job situation. The friend knows I don't make a whole lot of money to begin with. But I remember her grumbling about another friend who EXPECTED her to take him out after he took her out, and she says she HATES tit for tat people. But when her bday was around the corner, she found a way to slip that fact in on two totally transparent occassions. "yeah, since my bday is coming up in two more weeks." NO DUH?

In any case, if the shoe were on the other foot, I would've told my friend that I could buy my own drinks knowing that every dime counts (I live in an expensive city, ya'll!) But a good point I got from here is that maybe she didn't want to hurt my pride.

Of course this whole thing wouldn't be an issue if this were a CLOSE friend. I'm much more forgiving (and GIVING) with them. But I've had little incidents with this "friend" before which has me questioning our union at times. *shrug*

But like I said, thanks you guys! :)

Why did you offer to buy her drinks if you didn't really want to?

CatSlave
03-04-2009, 06:07 AM
Skip the two-drink minimum joint.
They are usually a rip-off.
Find a free art gallery instead.
(I live near DC, and there's plenty of wonderful free stuff here.)

And say, "Kiddo, I know it's your birthday but my money situation forces me to temporarily cancel our dinner. How about I treat you to a (meaning one) drink at your favorite watering hole and a rain check for the dinner when my finances settle down?"

Don't forget to give a raunchy, funny birthday card with the drink.

If your friend feels cheated, then I would rethink the friendship.

If this post is too late, keep it in mind for another time.
Make a sumptuous picnic and take your friend for a day at the park or the zoo.

Joe270
03-04-2009, 06:12 AM
Skip the two-drink minimum joint.
They are usually a rip-off.

Lots of comedy do the two-drink min, but pay no cover charge. It's not a problem for me. I used to go a couple times a month, and it was always worth every penny.

If it was me, I'd say go dutch, each pay for their own choice of drinks.

It's the friendship that matters, really. Then rent a redbox movie for a buck, drinks, and popcorn and make it a real night.

Beach Bunny
03-04-2009, 06:23 AM
You know, there is truth in that old saying "It's not the gift, it's the thought that counts." I question why the there is a tallying of the amount of money spent. What is this, she took me out for dinner on my birthday so I should take her out to dinner on her birthday stuff? Wouldn't it be better to give and receive something meaningful to the recipient instead?

My birthday was less than a month ago. My mom gave me $20. My friends on AW gave me pictures and videos of things they thought I would like. Guess which ones I appreciate more? Guess what is saved on my hard drive? I have no idea where I put the $20 my mom gave me. It's buried in a pile of mail somewhere.

But, to answer the question: In the given situation, I would let the friend pay for the drinks since she (he?) offered and not worry about it.

Dreaming
03-04-2009, 07:24 PM
Why did you offer to buy her drinks if you didn't really want to?
__________________


I claim to be a writer, but I'm rarely clear. This was more of a "moral" question. I offered the drinks, and I meant the offer, but in hindsight, I said to myself: if this were my friend and times were shaky, I'd say no. So again, more of a principles question. Lemmee give you another example about this friend:

One day, we met a random nice guy. He offered to take us out for drinks on the spot. Drinks turned into dinner. When asked by the waiter if we wanted seconds on the wine list, my friend was about to say yes, but I kneed her under the table. If the dude said, "feel free" then I woulda got my drink on. But he didn't. So I felt we should be satisified and GRATEFUL for dinner and ONE glass of wine. Again, my 'hood is expensive!

This friend has shown other selfish (clueless) traits, and I've almost cut her completely off several times. But she loves to hang out, and as most women know, it's hard to find a girlfriend without kids who can hang at the drop of a dime. Also, she does have a sweet side that I concentrate on when I'm fuming at her.

p.s. Allow me to reiterate that she kept hinting about her bday coming up - which to me, didn't seem genuine or fluid. Felt like pressure!


Does this clear things up - just a lil bit?

Toothpaste
03-04-2009, 08:15 PM
I agree with what you are saying, that just because someone offers doesn't mean you suddenly take advantage of the situation. But. In this case, just because you think your friend took advantage of you, or should have suggested otherwise, doesn't make you more right. When you put an offer out there you have to mean it. And to now be upset at someone for taking you up on it, even if she has a history of being disrespectful, is really unfair to your friend. You didn't have to offer to buy the drinks, yes her hinting about her birthday was pressure, so don't succumb to it. This person could be the rudest person on the planet, but if you offered and they accepted you simply can't be bitter towards them for that reason. It's like you created yourself a situation where you could feel superior, "Well if someone offered ME this deal, I would have magnanimously declined. But she said yes, she fell into my trap!"

I'm writing this as a person who really had to learn social graces. I'm not good at games, and always just said what I felt, and if I made any offers or suggestions I meant them. So it's really tough for me to know what is the socially acceptable action. When someone offers to pay for something I'm never sure if I'm supposed to insist not and pay my way, or be grateful and say thank you. You see I know that when I make an offer, I mean it. But there are people out there who are doing the act but don't actually expect the follow through. That makes life very difficult for us who say what we mean, and do what we say. I absolutely hate it when someone offers to pay because I have no idea if they are being sincere or not.

Greenwolf103
03-04-2009, 09:04 PM
You know, there is truth in that old saying "It's not the gift, it's the thought that counts." I question why the there is a tallying of the amount of money spent. What is this, she took me out for dinner on my birthday so I should take her out to dinner on her birthday stuff? Wouldn't it be better to give and receive something meaningful to the recipient instead?

My birthday was less than a month ago. My mom gave me $20. My friends on AW gave me pictures and videos of things they thought I would like. Guess which ones I appreciate more? Guess what is saved on my hard drive? I have no idea where I put the $20 my mom gave me. It's buried in a pile of mail somewhere.

But, to answer the question: In the given situation, I would let the friend pay for the drinks since she (he?) offered and not worry about it.

You are lucky, Beach Bunny. I don't even get a card from my mom on my birthday. Neither do my kids, on theirs. :(

James81
03-04-2009, 09:19 PM
I claim to be a writer, but I'm rarely clear. This was more of a "moral" question. I offered the drinks, and I meant the offer, but in hindsight, I said to myself: if this were my friend and times were shaky, I'd say no. So again, more of a principles question. Lemmee give you another example about this friend:

One day, we met a random nice guy. He offered to take us out for drinks on the spot. Drinks turned into dinner. When asked by the waiter if we wanted seconds on the wine list, my friend was about to say yes, but I kneed her under the table. If the dude said, "feel free" then I woulda got my drink on. But he didn't. So I felt we should be satisified and GRATEFUL for dinner and ONE glass of wine. Again, my 'hood is expensive!

This friend has shown other selfish (clueless) traits, and I've almost cut her completely off several times. But she loves to hang out, and as most women know, it's hard to find a girlfriend without kids who can hang at the drop of a dime. Also, she does have a sweet side that I concentrate on when I'm fuming at her.

p.s. Allow me to reiterate that she kept hinting about her bday coming up - which to me, didn't seem genuine or fluid. Felt like pressure!


Does this clear things up - just a lil bit?

It clears things up, but it still doesn't change the fact the you were the one to make an offer. Even if you made it in haste, you still made the offer. I just think you are getting angry or upset or whatever about something you brought on yourself, and then you are trying to blame your friend for being selfish for accepting your offer.

Yeah, she may be a selfish person. Yeah, she may have been pressuring you. But at the end of the day, you still made the choice to offer to pay for it, and ultimately you are responsibile for the negative feelings you feel about it now.

Not trying to rag on you or be harsh or anything. I'm just trying to be honest about what looks to me like a situation you had complete control over.

Your friend knows you are having job problems. She would have understand if you DIDN'T offer. If she didn't understand, then she's not much of a friend and perhaps she's more of a toxic influence on you and may be someone you want to distance yourself from.

But blaming her for accepting an offer you made? Not her fault, even if it was little insensitive on her part to not recognize your money situation and decline the offer.

Dreaming
03-04-2009, 09:29 PM
I don't think you guys are understanding me.
This was a moral question. I don't regret buying the drinks. I was wondering what other people would've done in the same situation.

Toothpaste
03-04-2009, 09:38 PM
Well it does sound a bit like you are regretting buying the drinks, otherwise I'm not sure why you would care to describe the situation and create this as a moral dilemma for us to respond to. But that aside . . .

If I had no money and wanted to celebrate a friend's birthday, I would buy a bottle, some food, have them over for a meal. Maybe watch a movie (if they liked that kind of thing, for most of my friends we adore watching movies), and have an awesome time. I might also write them a poem. I know that sounds a bit cheesy, but I like to write humourous poems for my friends that are very specific to our relationship, and they do seem to be received well.

If my friend wanted to go out, I'd say that the first drink was on me.

In all, if this person was a really good friend they would understand that I couldn't afford to do any more, and that us spending time together is fun enough. If this wasn't a very good friend I wouldn't feel as obligated to do anything too expensive for them.

Dreaming
03-04-2009, 09:56 PM
Well it does sound a bit like you are regretting buying the drinks, otherwise I'm not sure why you would care to describe the situation and create this as a moral dilemma for us to respond to. But that aside .


Arggghhhh!!! All I wanted was your opinions on the subject. I didn't mean to convey that I was angry, upset, and full of regret. I would've also come here with the "dinner with random dude" scenario asking for your feedback too. (Would you have had enough sense NOT to order a second glass of wine if the guy didn't offer?) And while we're on the subject, would you have known better, or would I have to kick you under the table too?


I'm just curious to know how other folks think about certain things. That is all, my friends. Most of you guys are VERY on top of things here, and I value your thoughts...

James81
03-04-2009, 10:09 PM
(Would you have had enough sense NOT to order a second glass of wine if the guy didn't offer?)

Why would you assume that he's paying?

Toothpaste
03-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Arggghhhh!!! All I wanted was your opinions on the subject. I didn't mean to convey that I was angry, upset, and full of regret. I would've also come here with the "dinner with random dude" scenario asking for your feedback too. (Would you have had enough sense NOT to order a second glass of wine if the guy didn't offer?) And while we're on the subject, would you have known better, or would I have to kick you under the table too?


Wow, considering I know your opinion on that person you had to kick, it sounds a bit like you are insulting me. However I'll just pretend I'm reading too much into that last question and instead take it at face value. No you would not have had to kick me under the table too because I do have enough sense NOT to order a second glass of wine if the guy didn't order it.

And um . . .did you notice I actually did answer your other question in full after the bit you quoted from me?

Dreaming
03-04-2009, 11:19 PM
James, it was clear that he was treating. He asked to take us out to dinner.

Toothpaste, relax. I was not trying to insult you. I was honestly looking for other opinions on how others would've handled it. For your information (respectfully speaking), the reason I ask others is because I DON'T want to be that self-righteous a-hole. My "friend" often acts like her actions are "no big deal" so I like to ask total strangers what they think. kapeesh? :)

James81
03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
He asked to take us out to dinner.



Ha ha, that's still making the assumption that just because he asked you out to dinner, you assume he's going to pay.

Does a man asking you to dinner (or on a date) mean that he automatically has to pay just because he was the one asking?

Clair Dickson
03-04-2009, 11:55 PM
Lots of people hint that their birthday is coming up. Doesn't inherently mean that they want something from others other than acknowledgment of their mere existence. You'd be surprised... some people DON'T keep track of other people's birthdays.

I'm not sure what the issue is and what you are looking for validation on. Your friend may not be paying attention to how much money is spent.

My mom can't keep track of money. She can count it out to pay a bill, but it doesn't register if this is more or less than other times. I've tried to tell her that Red Robin costs more than Big Boy, but she doesn't seem to understand. (The hard part is getting her to leave an appropriate tip... she'll often tip the same couple bucks at an expensive place as she would a cheap place. It's all the same to her.)

Sounds to me like others wouldn't have paid attention to the money.

I never assume anyone's going to pay. I expect I'm going to pay my share unless the person asking offers. To do otherwise is to be presumptuous. My best friend comes into town to visit and invites me for lunch. I offer to pay for my part of the bill, at least, and sometimes the whole thing since she just paid for plane fare. (And she makes more than me.) I invite my mom to dinner. She offers to pay her share. A male friend invite me (a woman) to get ice cream... I don't assume he's going to pay! Maybe that's just because we're both married, but still, it seems archaic to me to assume a man will pay. Now, if he says, "I'd like to buy you ice cream," that's different. Then I can conclude he's paying. But I'd still offer to pay my part because I'm funny that way.

COMMUNICATION. It's an amazing thing. And yet so difficult to do right...

(Sorry... assumptions and presumptions in relationships drive me nuts. Short trip, but still.)

Dreaming
03-05-2009, 12:10 AM
Hey James,

It was pretty much a given, HOWEVER, I had my amex card ready to swipe just in case. ;)

James81
03-05-2009, 12:56 AM
Hey James,

It was pretty much a given, HOWEVER, I had my amex card ready to swipe just in case. ;)

The difference between a swiped amex card and a non-swiped amex card is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug.

Write that shit down and put a little dash with my name after it.

Dreaming
03-05-2009, 01:06 AM
But I made what they call the "gesture" at the end of the meal, and he shook his head nooooo. He also made sure to inform us that he's a doctor.

By the way, speaking of lightning, I'm goin' way off subject here, but am I the only one who wonders if static electricty would kill an ant just as lightning could kill a human? :poke:

scarletpeaches
03-05-2009, 01:08 AM
Ha ha, that's still making the assumption that just because he asked you out to dinner, you assume he's going to pay.

Does a man asking you to dinner (or on a date) mean that he automatically has to pay just because he was the one asking?

If it's the first date, yes. After which we go Dutch. ;)

James81
03-05-2009, 01:09 AM
If it's the first date, yes. After which we go Dutch. ;)

You sound high maintenance.

scarletpeaches
03-05-2009, 01:11 AM
Yep. I probably am.

(But I'm worth it).

James81
03-05-2009, 01:12 AM
(But I'm worth it).

Hmm, fill out a resume and have it in my inbox by Friday. I'll have my people look over it and get back to you.

Dreaming
03-05-2009, 01:43 AM
*interrupting potential love match*

James, you're quite funny. :)

James81
03-05-2009, 02:03 AM
*interrupting potential love match*

James, you're quite funny. :)

Thanks, I'll be here all week.