Episcopal Cathedral and Clergy

Jodotha · Feb 23, 2009

Hi all,

Forgive me if this comes across as vague - I'm still at that point in the story where I'm not even sure which questions to ask.

One of my characters is a teenager, but I'm hoping to have him already training to be a member of the clergy - a priest, if that fits - in 1900 NYC. What would those steps be?
Also, how would a large cathedral - Trinity in NYC, for example - be run? Who would be there? Is there someone there at all hours?
What kind of rooms might be in a cathedral like that? Most descriptions only mention the nave/narthex/etc - but wouldn't there be some other rooms? An office? Somewhere for the priest to prepare? Etc?

BTW, I found this thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112817 which is very helpful. As almost half my story takes place within a cathedral in 1900 NYC (tentatively Trinity, until I can research more on the locations), any additional information that can be provided would be greatly appreciated!

waylander · Feb 23, 2009

He would train for the priesthood in a seminary like these
http://www.ny-archdiocese.org/seminary/st-josephs-seminary-dunwoodie/
http://www.ny-archdiocese.org/seminary/cathedral-preparatory/

Don't know how much time he would spend around the cathedral

Sarpedon · Feb 24, 2009

Unless there's one thats got a seminary associated with it.

Church buildings, vestements, and such like among Episcopalians are very similar to those of Catholics, to the point where the only way to tell an Episcopal church from a Catholic one is that the former has red doors. It is quite likely that there would be other buildings attached; there might even be a small theological seminary associated with a large cathedral. The bishop would probably live on site or nearby, along with his domestic servants and clerical assistants. Unlike other protestant branches, the Episcopalians have monks and nuns (though they are not so-called) who might also be present. Likewise, offices are expected, perhaps even a crypt, smaller, more private chapels, meeting rooms, maybe even a garden and cloister, refectory, and so forth.

Mike Martyn · Feb 24, 2009

Sarpedon said:
Unless there's one thats got a seminary associated with it.

Church buildings, vestements, and such like among Episcopalians are very similar to those of Catholics, to the point where the only way to tell an Episcopal church from a Catholic one is that the former has red doors.

*** THe Anglican Cathedral (Episcopalian to you Americans) that I sang in as a boy did not have red doors. It did not have stations of the cross, niches with statues of saints nor candles for people to light to them nor confessionals. So no, the interior of an Anglican Cathedral is not like a Catholic one.

To the left of the altar, there was a door to a seperate chapel for smaller funerals and weddings. To the right was the robing room for the choir plus offices and a side door which allowed us choir boys to sneak out and smoke cigarettes behind the tomb stones or pick fights with each other.
*******************************
It is quite likely that there would be other buildings attached; there might even be a small theological seminary associated with a large cathedral. The bishop would probably live on site or nearby, along with his domestic servants and clerical assistants.

Unlike other protestant branches, the Episcopalians have monks and nuns (though they are not so-called)
************ snip***************
My sister was a novice in an Anglican nunnery and yes, they called them nuns.

Mind you all that was back in the '60s and things may have changed since then but I'm sure things had not changed between 1900 and 1960 or between 1960 qnd 1700 for that matter!

I was in the Cathedral choir and I was part of this incredibly long and ornate service at the Cathedral in 1965 when 4 priests were ordained at the same time. If you need the details for that service let me know.

As for the service itself, you willl find it in the Book of Common Prayer which is probably on line. Make sure you check out the pre 1970's version which uses the old form of language (thees and thou's etc.) In terms of little details, back then, they would have knelt while praying as well as crossing themselves. If you crossed the aisle, you always paused to bow to the altar.

Google "St. John's Cathedral" and "Winnipeg" and you can do a virtual tour of the Gothic style Cathedral I'm talking about. Drop them an email with any questions and I'm sure someone will be happy to answer your questions.

johnnysannie · Feb 24, 2009

Sarpedon said:
Church buildings, vestements, and such like among Episcopalians are very similar to those of Catholics, to the point where the only way to tell an Episcopal church from a Catholic one is that the former has red doors.]

Actually, there would be quite a few differences beyond door color between an Episcopal and Catholic Church. I don't know where the door color thing comes from but until our Catholic parish replaced the door last year, we had a red door and the local Episcopal church didn't/doesn't.

Sarpedon · Feb 25, 2009

Oh, in the USA episcopalian churches often have red doors. I see 'em all over. Maybe its a regional thing.

I was raised episcopal and I still sometimes have trouble telling the difference. My impression has always been that the difference is more political than religious. One of the more dangerous things for an episcopalian is to go to a catholic church, and get in the 'church zone' where you mechanically recite the prayers. They are 90% the same. Its that 10% that gets me every time. And I'm sure that a clergyman could spot the differences in vestments. For me they look very similar; collar, cassock, robe, stole, miter, crook, etc. ETA: Oh! I forgot; Episcopal clergy can have facial hair, while Catholic clergy can not.

I can also say that architecturally there's really no major distinctions, at least here in the States. Not in the same way that one can easily tell an Eastern Orthodox church, or a Congregationalist church, or a Mormon church that generally have distinctive architectural features. Catholic and Episcopalian churches tend to be similarly conservative with a strong preference for Gothic architecture (christofer Wren's St Pauls aside, and even that closely resembles a french catholic church (or should I say, former catholic church)). My local catholic cathedral is a fine neoclasical edifice, and my local episcopalian cathedral is a similarly fine gothic building, but nothing about either one screams out 'Catholic!' or 'Episcopalian!' except, perhaps, for the Catholics' fondness for putting their churches in commanding positions. Hmm, now that I think of it, other than St Pauls I don't know of any Neoclassical Episcopalian cathedrals (not that I've made an extensive study). So perhaps one could say that Catholics might be more likely to be neoclassical, though they are also often gothic.

ETA: Another thing I thought of is that a Catholic church is more likely to have depictions of saints in sculpture. Duh, thats obvious. Episcopalians have saints too, but they are looked upon more as role-models rather than guardians and intercessionary figures, and are thus less likely to be honored in sculpture form.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Feb 25, 2009

http://www.stjohndivine.org
http://www.cathedral.org

Here's the typical lineup, from St, John the Divine in NYC
The Right Reverend Mark S. Sisk, D.D. Bishop of New York (head of the diocese, based at the church)
The Very Reverend James A. Kowalski, D.Min. Dean of the Cathedral Church (Dean is in charge of the cathedral, while the Bishop is in charge of the diocese)
The Reverend Canon Alan G. Dennis, M.Th.Sub-Dean
The Reverend Canon John B. Luce, M.Div.Canon Residentiary (canons are basically department heads)
The Reverend Canon Thomas P. Miller, S.T.M. Canon for Liturgy & the Arts
The Reverend Canon Victoria Sirota, D.M.A. Pastor & Vicar of the Congregation of St. Saviour
The Reverend Canon Patti Welch, M.Div., Chaplain, The Cathedral School & Canon for Education

(and a bunch of priests for various services - they have a lot of them and the duty gets rotated. Priests might also teach in the associated school) In 1900, the girls and boys would be in separate classes.

The MAJOR difference between Catholic and Episcopalians is that Episcopalian priests can marry, and are encouraged to marry.

Jodotha · Feb 25, 2009

You all rock my socks so very much. Thank you for taking the time to help me! I'll go through these again tomorrow when my head is less mushy from exhaustion LOL
Again, thank you so much!

Episcopal Cathedral and Clergy

Jodotha

Oh hey, I've been here before...

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Sarpedon

Mike Martyn

johnnysannie

Sarpedon

Tsu Dho Nimh

Jodotha

Oh hey, I've been here before...