Appropriate or not for Young Adults

Basically it's 12 - 18. Anywhere between those ages is YA. MG (middle grade) is about 8 - 12.

And as for YA, almost nothing is inappropriate. Terrorism - definitely not.

I think this forum should be renamed: "NOTHING IS TOO CONTROVERSIAL FOR YOUNG ADULTS. NO, REALLY. NO, WE REALLY DO MEAN IT."

I would read something on terrorism.

Oh, and I've been reading books categorized as YA since I turned nine.

The author of 'boy proof' wrote this graphic novel titled, 'the plain jane's' which came out in 2007. and one of its themes was terrorism.

I am invoking it the second time today, but please oh please read the fabulous and immensely popular YA novel Little Brother, by Cory Doctorow. It's all about (techno)terrorism, righteous and otherwise.

I think this forum should be renamed: "NOTHING IS TOO CONTROVERSIAL FOR YOUNG ADULTS. NO, REALLY. NO, WE REALLY DO MEAN IT."

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YES!

Glenakin said:

I just wanted to know, what is the age range of a young adult: 15 to 17? Or is it something else?

Also, with everything that's happened in the world so far, do you think it's inappropriate for young adult books to have themes that suggest "terrorism" in them?

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I would agree that pretty much nothing is off-limits for YA - provided it suits the story and is done from the perspective of a YA protagonist.

And terrorism has already been included in YA books - for example:

The 2005 Michael L. Printz Award winner, “how i live now,” by Meg Rosoff - that book is narrated by a 15-year-old girl and deals with a post-terrorist attack world.

And last year's Little Brother, by Cory Doctorow - in that book, a seventeen years old finds himself caught in the aftermath of a major terrorist attack on San Francisco. He is detained by the Department of Homeland Security and taken to a secret prison and interrogated for days. When he is released, he and his friends decide to become rebels against the government themselves - arguably home-born terrorists, though I think they'd call themselves rebels.

ANd really almost nothing is off-limits these days. For example, last year's Living Dead Girl, by Elizabeth Scott. It's a YA novel written from the perspective of a teenager who has been held captive and sexually abused for years, and is now being enlisted by her captor/abuser to help him find her replacement before he probably kills the protagonist. It is haunting and hard to read in places, and some were appalled it was a YA book. But I think it's a good example of how even very rough subjects can be included in YA books.

Glenakin said:

LOL!

Thanks for replying everyone. There's this obnoxious 50-something year-old bloke in my class who keeps saying otherwise, so I wanted to clarify from other writers.

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Speaking from the perspective of a nineteen-year-old YA writer - kids KNOW things. They know about terrorism. They know about sex. They know about drugs. They've probably tasted alcohol, even if they're the "good kids" like I was. Am. Ahem.

YA readers hate it when you treat them like they're naive - like you have to cover their ears when you're talking about rape or drug abuse or suicide. They know what the world is like - their high school is probably one of the most violent, terrifying places on the planet sometimes. And they don't want to hear that they're too young to read it on paper. They SEE it. Everyday.

So yeah - that's why nothing's taboo with kids nowadays. Because in our screwed up society, kids are just as experienced as the adults. Should we set a good example in YA? ABSOLUTELY. Should we offer hope in situations like rape or drug abuse? YES. But don't act like it doesn't exist. That's a good way to lose your audience.

*rant over*
Lol.

Lol no problem at all. It felt great.

Actually, YA is from 13-18. MG is from 8-12. The line blurs a little there, but I wouldn't consider a lot of literature for 12 year-olds YA lit.

*nitpicking*

Glenakin said:

Thanks for replying everyone. There's this obnoxious 50-something year-old bloke in my class who keeps saying otherwise, so I wanted to clarify from other writers.

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He likely just isn't aware of how much YA has evolved. When I was a teenager (I recently turned 30), there just wasn't that big of a YA market (at least not in the small town I grew up in). I had S.E. Hinton, Judy Blume, and a handful of Sweet Valley Highs.

I realized YA had grown, but it wasn't until I started actively reading YA and browsing that corner of the bookstore that I realize by how much.

Bring in a few titles for him (Shady has an excellent thread on edgy YA). He'll either get the message or continue to pine for the good old days of wholesome youth literature.

Parametric said:

I think this forum should be renamed: "NOTHING IS TOO CONTROVERSIAL FOR YOUNG ADULTS. NO, REALLY. NO, WE REALLY DO MEAN IT."

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Oh God please.

Esopha said:

Actually, YA is from 13-18. MG is from 8-12. The line blurs a little there, but I wouldn't consider a lot of literature for 12 year-olds YA lit.

*nitpicking*

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Actually, it's been a battle for the 12 year olds for years, but currently most YA experts and YA awards still claim the 12 year olds. And so do the MG and children’s awards and experts. So, 12 year olds are the blurry year, or, if you like, the potential jackpot year: because if your book appeals to 12 year olds, or more accurately is rightfully targeted to 12 year olds, arguably you are eligible for both the Newbery Medal and the Printz award.

The Newbery Medal and the Printz Award, the two probably most well known children's literature awards - the Newbery for Children's and the Printz for YA - both use 12 years old as the cut off for eligibility - Newbery as the ceiling and Printz as the floor.

So, I'd say MG and YA can both still claim the 12 year olds. The decision then becomes one of tone and content and complexity - and whether it's more likely to appeal to 12 years and up or 12 years and down.

~suki

Try reading "After the First Death" by Robert Cormier. Religious extremist terrorists hijack a summer camp bus as driven by a teenage girl. Kids die. The girl dies. The terrorist boy escapes and becomes even more hardcore. Dark dark dark.

It's YA, and was published in 1979. So, no, it's not an untouchable subject.

Suzi, I wouldn't generally classify age range because of awards, but I see your point. I read MG and YA indiscriminately, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. Hence why I said the line blurs between 12 and 13.

'S called "covering your ass."

hehehee.

I said "ass."

Esopha said:

Suzi, I wouldn't generally classify age range because of awards, but I see your point. I read MG and YA indiscriminately, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. Hence why I said the line blurs between 12 and 13.

'S called "covering your ass."

hehehee.

I said "ass."

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Yeah, I agree on the awards do not necessarily make it so point, but given the prestige of the awards and the fact that the eligibility is determined by the respective divisions of ALA, until something more significant or more expert defines it differently, I think you have to leave 12 year olds in both.

I also read MG and YA (though more YA), and I totally agree with your point that often the books that are appealing to 12 year olds I'd consider MG based on feel and content. BUT, I'm also aware that if we follow that old maxim of kids generally read 1-2 years up, 12 year olds are (we generally assume) reading about 13-14 year old protagonists, and those probably would pull up to young YA.

I know, probably a dozen books to disprove these points, and I also know this is all dancing on the head of a pin stuff when discussed in the abstract, but there you have it.

~suki

My opinion (which I think agrees with yours, suki)

12-year-old protag--definitely MG
12-year-old reader--either MG or YA, depending on their reading level/what they happen to be reading.

Shady Lane said:

My opinion (which I think agrees with yours, suki)

12-year-old protag--definitely MG
12-year-old reader--either MG or YA, depending on their reading level/what they happen to be reading.

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Yes, it does, though with far, far less words. You must be an experienced writer. I still yammer on endlessly...wordiness is my vice. Or sin. No vice...

edited to add: I will say I think there is possibility for a YA book with a 12-year-old protag, but that I think it is unlikely in current markets - but, given a complex enough plot or structure, I suppose it is possible.

~suki

suki said:

Yeah, I agree on the awards do not necessarily make it so point, but given the prestige of the awards and the fact that the eligibility is determined by the respective divisions of ALA, until something more significant or more expert defines it differently, I think you have to leave 12 year olds in both.

I also read MG and YA (though more YA), and I totally agree with your point that often the books that are appealing to 12 year olds I'd consider MG based on feel and content. BUT, I'm also aware that if we follow that old maxim of kids generally read 1-2 years up, 12 year olds are (we generally assume) reading about 13-14 year old protagonists, and those probably would pull up to young YA.

I know, probably a dozen books to disprove these points, and I also know this is all dancing on the head of a pin stuff when discussed in the abstract, but there you have it.

~suki

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Agreed.

Red.Ink.Rain said:

Speaking from the perspective of a nineteen-year-old YA writer - kids KNOW things. They know about terrorism. They know about sex. They know about drugs. They've probably tasted alcohol, even if they're the "good kids" like I was. Am. Ahem.

YA readers hate it when you treat them like they're naive - like you have to cover their ears when you're talking about rape or drug abuse or suicide. They know what the world is like - their high school is probably one of the most violent, terrifying places on the planet sometimes. And they don't want to hear that they're too young to read it on paper. They SEE it. Everyday.

So yeah - that's why nothing's taboo with kids nowadays. Because in our screwed up society, kids are just as experienced as the adults. Should we set a good example in YA? ABSOLUTELY. Should we offer hope in situations like rape or drug abuse? YES. But don't act like it doesn't exist. That's a good way to lose your audience.

*rant over*
Lol.

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What she said

Red.Ink.Rain said:

Speaking from the perspective of a nineteen-year-old YA writer - kids KNOW things. They know about terrorism. They know about sex. They know about drugs. They've probably tasted alcohol, even if they're the "good kids" like I was. Am. Ahem.

YA readers hate it when you treat them like they're naive - like you have to cover their ears when you're talking about rape or drug abuse or suicide. They know what the world is like - their high school is probably one of the most violent, terrifying places on the planet sometimes. And they don't want to hear that they're too young to read it on paper. They SEE it. Everyday.

So yeah - that's why nothing's taboo with kids nowadays. Because in our screwed up society, kids are just as experienced as the adults. Should we set a good example in YA? ABSOLUTELY. Should we offer hope in situations like rape or drug abuse? YES. But don't act like it doesn't exist. That's a good way to lose your audience.

*rant over*
Lol.

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I agree but for this part.

I'm not here to set a good example. I'm here to tell a damn story.

I will add that a well written YA can appeal across the board from 9 to 93. I'm a thirty-something mom with five kids, and some of the YA I enjoy I get for my 9-year-old on CDs on tape. I haven't actually read much adult material lately because there's so much good YA to choose from.