Stallion or Mare?

AnneMarble · Feb 17, 2009

Which should my characters in my fantasy novel ride -- stallions or mares? Some sources have argued that characters wouldn't ride stallions because stallions are so agressive and would fight with each other or try to mate with nearby females. Other experts say that this is B.S. and depends on the culture, the breed (and training) of horse, the period of history, etc. For example, they argue that in Medieval times, males rode stallions becauses that was more manly and that they rarely rode mares. Still others point out that mares could be used as war horses and males did ride mares. Please help me before I start to shred some reference materials.

This is a fantasy novel with lots of magic and a culture inspired by (but not entirely like) Medieval Europe. The MC is a mage. He's in good shape and is a good rider, but he's far from a burly warrior type

. His lover (a prince and burly warrior type) gives him his favorite fast horse as a present. The mage will eventually be using the horse in battle because he is a battle mage, but he won't be using the horse as a typical war horse. Rather, he'll need something fast and quick to get the heck out of there.

By the way, I haven't decided on a breed yet. That's a whole 'nother question.

Thanks!

TheIT · Feb 17, 2009

Might want to check out the "Horse Sense" thread:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25643

I posed the same question and got some good replies about the differences in behavior between mares, stallions, and geldings. I think I eventually decided on a mare for my MC.

AnneMarble · Feb 17, 2009

TheIT said:
Might want to check out the "Horse Sense" thread:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25643

I posed the same question and got some good replies about the differences in behavior between mares, stallions, and geldings. I think I eventually decided on a mare for my MC.

Thanks.

Actually, I think I want him to ride your avatar.

TheIT · Feb 17, 2009

AnneMarble said:
Thanks.

Actually, I think I want him to ride your avatar.

Only if he's four inches tall and likes polymer clay cats.

Tasmin21 · Feb 17, 2009

For the record, the two gentlest horses I've ever been around were stallions, and the nastiest most spiteful bag of bones I ever wanted to kick in the knee was a mare, so... Even horses have stereotypes.

chevbrock · Feb 17, 2009

I think it would be very hard to keep a good, "useful" bloodline going with just geldings and mares, so there must be some way to keep a stallion focused enough on the job-at-hand to not worry about other stallions and mares.

Having said that, it seems to me that the only time that stallions are used for stud are when they are retired from their sporting pursuit, and that is the time that they "discover" that there's more to life than being a sportshorse.

Two cents.

sunandshadow · Feb 17, 2009

Stallions are generally slightly faster than mares, all other things like breed being equal. On the other hand a really fast stallion is probably in use as a stud, worth a lot of money, would tempt thieves to steal him, and one wouldn't want to risk him getting injured in combat. Geldings are usually the cheapest and most common kind of riding horse but would probably not be a prince's favorite.

Horserider · Feb 17, 2009

Well... It really depends on the horse. You could get the gentlest stallion that gets along with other horses and never acts up or you could get the meanest mare that snaps at anyone who even looks at her funny.

Depending on your character's riding ability, I'd say mare. There's nothing better than a good mare and then you wouldn't have to worry about the stallions fighting. Usually they fight over mares so if there is a mare especially if she's in heat, odds are they will fight.

If your characters are novices, I'd suggest mares or geldings. Stallions do tend to be a bit harder to handle (though there are exceptions as always). Mares sometimes get moody when they're in heat. Geldings are the best for novices though I favored my older mare much more than the greenbroke gelding I once rode. Really it depends on the horse's personality, training and the rider's ability to handle themselves and the horse.

jeseymour · Feb 17, 2009

Couple of things - first, I'm not an expert in medieval horse stuff, but I am somewhat expert in modern horse stuff. That said, I've never run a big breeding operation, so much of this will be secondhand. Breeding stallions are not necessarily retired from whatever they did before, I would think most would be the opposite. Racing Thoroughbreds are "retired to stud" but dressage horses, jumpers and event horses (where most of my knowledge comes from) are not. Most of these stallions are bred using AI, and will compete throughout the season. I've worked with stallions who were being used for breeding and competing and they do know the difference. They know enough to behave under saddle. Stallions who don't learn to behave end up as geldings, unless they are truly exceptional. The dressage stallions I worked with behaved quite well at shows. These are expensive animals with tons of training, so they certainly would not be chasing after mares while being ridden. They were turned out alone, in paddocks away from other horses.

Again, I have absolutely no idea what they did in medieval times. I would think it would be more convenient to ride a gelding or a mare, simply because you wouldn't have to worry about keeping them separated when not riding.

Hope this helps!

AnneMarble · Feb 17, 2009

chevbrock said:
I think it would be very hard to keep a good, "useful" bloodline going with just geldings and mares, so there must be some way to keep a stallion focused enough on the job-at-hand to not worry about other stallions and mares.

Having said that, it seems to me that the only time that stallions are used for stud are when they are retired from their sporting pursuit, and that is the time that they "discover" that there's more to life than being a sportshorse.

Two cents.

Yes, they must have done something with the stallions besides the obvious.

I really wonder where some of the "experts" come from. Maybe the only horses they know are attached to poles and go around in circles. Or maybe the person who wrote that "advice" about never using stallions had a bad experience and drew from that.

sunandshadow said:
Stallions are generally slightly faster than mares, all other things like breed being equal. On the other hand a really fast stallion is probably in use as a stud, worth a lot of money, would tempt thieves to steal him, and one wouldn't want to risk him getting injured in combat. Geldings are usually the cheapest and most common kind of riding horse but would probably not be a prince's favorite.

Not a mage's favorite, either, as my mages tend to be oversexed.

They'd probably be horrified at the idea of gelding.
:e2faint:

Interesting points on the value of the fast stallion. Maybe the prince would keep those for his stables (and betting). Maneuverable might be more important. I can just see him on a Lipizzaner stallion.

Horserider said:
Well... It really depends on the horse. You could get the gentlest stallion that gets along with other horses and never acts up or you could get the meanest mare that snaps at anyone who even looks at her funny.

Depending on your character's riding ability, I'd say mare. There's nothing better than a good mare and then you wouldn't have to worry about the stallions fighting. Usually they fight over mares so if there is a mare especially if she's in heat, odds are they will fight.

If your characters are novices, I'd suggest mares or geldings. Stallions do tend to be a bit harder to handle (though there are exceptions as always). Mares sometimes get moody when they're in heat. Geldings are the best for novices though I favored my older mare much more than the greenbroke gelding I once rode. Really it depends on the horse's personality, training and the rider's ability to handle themselves and the horse.

Hmm, the mage hasn't become a battle mage yet (his father is being too overprotective), so maybe he is still something of a novice. He is privileged, though, so he can ride -- but of course that doesn't mean he can ride well.

Maybe the prince gives him a mare because he knows that's what he needs now, or a very patient stallion.

Soccer Mom · Feb 17, 2009

My favoritest horse ever was a mare. The horse I have now is a gelding and my son's horse is a mare. I've known some incredibly patient stallions though. Men did ride mares. It wasn't necessarily a stigma for a man to ride a mare. It isn't medieval, but George Washington's favorite mount was a white mare named Magnolia.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 17, 2009

I know more about medieval farming than about medieval equitation, so this may be on a tangent.

On medieval farms in what is now the UK and Ireland, it was the norm after the mid-14th century to have one stallion per several mares. Smallholdings often borrowed a stallion from neighbors if they supported fewer than four horses.

By the reign of Henry VIII there were actually laws that mandated the gelding all but exceptional stallions, at least on farms.

Horserider · Feb 17, 2009

By the reign of Henry VIII there were actually laws that mandated the gelding all but exceptional stallions, at least on farms.

Wish that law was around now.

Fenika · Feb 17, 2009

Unless this is a rumor (but it is commonly touted) the Arabs prized their mares the most b/c they could take them to battle and they wouldn't call to the enemy's horses at night.

My main characters ride mares. My baddies, I'm not so sure yet. My elite cavalry rides a mix of stallions and mares. I could see putting someone on a gelding just to mix it up. Maybe the bits came off and the horse turned out to be a GREAT mount (either as the testosterone went down or the horse matured)

*shrugs* I've been at shows/events with stallions. Some were super calm (though might have been tranq'ed) and some were going nuts at the overload of hormones (one stallion called to every horse that passed him. Mare, gelding. Anything. He couldn't tell the difference in the mix of scents, and yeah, it was a courtship call.)

WriteKnight · Feb 18, 2009

It's your world, you get to write it.

Having said that, yes - in medieval era - western Knights favored stallions - but not exclusively. Yes, the eastern cultures favored mares - but not exclusively.

There are issues with riding stallions AND mares... one simply deals with them. I've jousted on an Arab Stallion, but my all time favorite mount was a mare.

(That's a mare I'm riding in my avatar.)

veinglory · Feb 18, 2009

It is fairly easy to keep horses in general going with geldings and mares. After all, a fairly small proportion of stallions is sufficient for breeding purposes and the number number of horses kept in a preindustrial culture is high.

The issue when travelling is that you can't just stable the animals apart ot prevent breeding, so I would expect travelling long distances in groups was done predominantly on geldings and mares.

MumblingSage · Feb 18, 2009

Bahamutchild said:
Unless this is a rumor (but it is commonly touted) the Arabs prized their mares the most b/c they could take them to battle and they wouldn't call to the enemy's horses at night.

Aww, no Romeo/Juliet horses?

BlueMouse · Feb 18, 2009

Point of interest: waaaaay back when, the Andalusian was considered the horse of royalty. And ranking nobles could only ride stallions, because they're the most 'noble' themselves, doncha know. Unfortunately, stallions also tended to be rather hot-headed and unpredictable, especially around mares. So how did they solve their little dilemma?

They bred all the 'studdiness' out of their stallions. Andalusian stallions are known for their calm demeanors, gentle natures, and willing and sweet dispositions. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part, Andies are not only incredibly gorgeous (that Baroque conformation and flowing manes and tails, not to mention their proud carriages and gaits) and something royalty was proud to ride, but also safe and gentle mounts.

So maybe that would be a possible compromise. If not, it's at least an interesting little anecdote, right?

foonting · Feb 19, 2009

Stallions have wonderful dramatic possibilities though!
My wife and I rescued a beautiful 18 hand Irish Draught called Duke of Diamonds....He had been at stud in Ireland and badly abused there.
He was brought to England and gelded...much too late as it happens, as once past a certain age stallion aggression is 'learned behaviour' as much as from the testosterone - Anyway his character today could be described as a lovable bad boy...He is haughty beyond belief at times requiring that you 'ask permission for even the simplest stable tasks around him. If you fail to give him the respect he asks, a bite or a kick will swiftly follow. If you ask nicely he will always agree to things, but 'eye' him the wrong way and you are cursing for a bruising.
He is loyal to the point of almost being dog like once he knows you...however he is completely homicidal with strangers and doom laden warning signs abound around his stable and field.
To ride, his years as a stallion have left him bold almost to the point of recklessness and far more likely to stare down a potential danger than turn and run from it.
Down side? He's hospitalised me more times than I care to tell and broken my heart more than once.
Conclusions? Stallions can be great characters in their own right and are fun to write about......

Rarri · Feb 19, 2009

In some senses, you could go for either a stallion, gelding or mare; they can all be badly behaved or gentle giants. For me, i always got on well with stallions and geldings (or rigs indeed), but mares, they get hormonal.. You can create any temperament you want without it being contraversial. It is slightly dependent on what breed you go for and also, simply, how you want your (character's) horse to behave and see what fits.

Have to agree on the gelding to late part, one of ours was gelded too late (age three if i remember right) and he retained the temperament of a highly strung stallion and caused his fair share of injuries too.

Stallion or Mare?

AnneMarble

Nefarious Ghost Fan

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

AnneMarble

Nefarious Ghost Fan

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Tasmin21

They will come from below...

chevbrock

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Horserider

Ever onward

jeseymour

AnneMarble

Nefarious Ghost Fan

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

Horserider

Ever onward

Fenika

WriteKnight

Arranger Of Disorder

veinglory

volitare nequeo

MumblingSage

Inarticulate Herb

BlueMouse

foonting

Rarri