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chelle21
05-27-2005, 07:52 AM
I feel like crap right now just when everything is going ok for me someone on this board always has a way to knock me down just because I write differently from the post doesn't mean I write the same when it comes to my articles. I have proof that I wrote the articles and I have proof that I wrote the articles at wwww.imusicshare.com I feel like giving up on my dream of becoming a writer maybe I want be a freelance writer than again who knows what God has in store for me. I feel like I got to prove myself every day that I am a writer but what different its going to make when people still going to treat me the same like I'm not worth being somebody. I do have talent when it comes to my writing well in my poetry. I really thought this board was here for writers like me to learn the basic about writing but I guess I was wrong.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_9_17v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm801YYUS) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_9_13.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm801YYUS)

Cabria
05-27-2005, 08:01 AM
Chelle,

If someone is giving you a hard time, let Jenna know. Or just ignore them. You are a writer - you know that. Don't let anyone take away your dream. Just don't.

Debbie

Rhush
05-27-2005, 08:12 AM
Hey Chelle,

Don't let it get you down. A lot of us understand having those hard days and wanting to give up. It took me a while before I felt like I fit in around here too. I used to feel like people ignored me on the boards. I called myself the "amazing invisable poster"! But it got better. I still feel a little out of joint sometimes because I write in a style that is just my own, but I think eventually you see that as a good thing. Some people can be a little mean, but the most of us are pretty nice. Is a thick skin good when it comes to your work? Oh yes! But it is true that sometimes people are just being mean to be mean. Just shrug them off. You'll be able to tell the differance pretty soon. So stick around. It's all good! :Hug2: Hang in there. Look at the funny banana...:banana: . Better? Good.


Rhush the Mighty

SeanDSchaffer
05-27-2005, 08:14 AM
Don't give up on your dreams, Chelle, whatever you do. A lot of people have a nasty tendency to think that the way someone writes on a post is automatically the way they write their articles. I've read enough of other writers' posts and their works to see that this just isn't true.

I'm sorry that people are giving you a hard time, I hope you'll understand some people are just like that. I'm sure they mean well, Chelle.

Like Debbie pointed out, if people are disrespecting you as a writer, then tell Jenna or one of the moderators about it. We're all people and we're all passionate about certain things, but even the best of us can get carried away sometimes.

I hope you'll forgive those who have hurt you, and please don't ever give up on your dreams. God gave them to you for a reason, and it'd be a mighty shame to see you throw them away.

I hope you feel better soon.
:Hug2:

Celeste
05-27-2005, 08:15 AM
chelle,

It breaks my heart to hear you talking like this. When I read your posts and see how excited you get, how I see you wanting to learn, how I see the passion you have for your writing, I smile every time. I feel proud of you in a way, although I don't really know you. So, you just stop that kind of talk, girl!

You don't have to prove anything to anyone here. The only thing, or person you have to prove yourself to is an editor/publisher that you can write. If you're going to be a writer, and hang out in writing boards, you're definitely going to run into others telling what you should, shouldn't do, what you can't do, etc... You can't let that get to you, or drag you down. You're going to have to be stronger than that and not let anything, or anyone discourage you. I know you're trying. And I told you, the more you write, the better you'll get. So, don't let negativity get you down, or push you to where you feel like giving up. You write and prove all those comments made wrong.

I've read your poetry. I think it's good. And you did get those articles accepted. So, give yourself credit for that, even if others doubt you. Only you know what you're capable of. Just from reading your posts, I know you have the drive and willingness to learn and improve.

Don't give up. You pick yourself back up, keep writing and kick azz! Stay strong.

And I told before, I'll tell you again...I gave my e-mail address. Any time you need help, write me and I'll be more than happy to. :Hug2:


celeste

MacAllister
05-27-2005, 08:18 AM
Chelle--no one wants to discourage you, or take your dreams from you. The situation you're referring to, however, is very troubling and extremely volatile. If you use someone else's words--more than three words consecutively is what I was taught--you MUST give them the credit for having written those words.

Celeste
05-27-2005, 08:56 AM
Chelle,

I just read and compared your article with the article from ''natural products insider". The article you wrote is pretty much word for word compared to the other that was published in March. That's a BIG no, no, sweety. Even if you do change the title. You can use that article as a reference, but you have to write it using your own words, otherwise it's copyright infringement. Is this something you didn't know, or understand?

Do you have any reference books on freelance writing? One I would recommend you buy and read is, "How to Publish your Articles: A Complete Guide to Making the Right Publication say Yes" by Shirley Kawa -Jump. This book explains everything from query letters to legalities/copyright issues -- everything you'll need to know to get you started.

You made a boo-boo. But you can still pick yourself up, brush yourself off and move forward. I really recommend you buy the book and read it. You'll learn a lot from it.


celeste

chelle21
05-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Thanks everybody for your commons in what you said I do hope I can learn from mistakes in stuff.

veinglory
05-27-2005, 01:38 PM
Learning is what mistakes are for. To avoid this problem I always read the references but them put it away and write the material in my own words. If specific statistic are needed I quote and cite. Time to move on to your next article!

Unique
05-27-2005, 05:33 PM
Chelle,

I've purposely stayed out of your threads re: writing. But now I'm going to say something I hope you take as valuable.

Go to your local community college and enroll in some English classes. Even if you think you can't afford it....Do it anyway! They will help you a lot. Besides grammar, punctuation, composition & structure, they will also teach you things like citing sources, bibliographies, and how to do research. Explain to the guidance counselor what you want to accomplish and what you feel your weaknesses are. If you tell them those things, they can help you get your classes in the right order so you can build on your strengths step by step without gaps.
The biggest thing you have going for you right now is your desire to be a writer. We can see the passion that you have to become accomplished. (And believe me, I HATE that 'P' word, because I don't have it.) Technical skills? Yeah, pretty much I do have those....but without that dreaded 'P' word, I might as well be a hockey player. Follow?
Do it, Chelle. Go take those classes and learn what you need to know. I'd love to see you come back and go:wag: 'nanna naana boo boo - told you I could do it.' I can guarantee you, we'll all be congratulating you, 'Hot damn! She did it!'

*I just found out that Chelle got banned last night. I wish I had given her this advice before her situation got to the point it did. I'm leaving my post as is in hopes that someone else with similar issues will read it and take it to heart. Plagarism = Lying = Stealing. It's wrong, it's always wrong, and in this 'Brave New World' of ours, I hope it continues to be wrong....*

maestrowork
05-27-2005, 06:40 PM
I don't know Celle well enough to pass any judgment.

But...



REMEMBER, you can "quote" but you can't steal. Plagiarism is wrong and will not be tolerated here, a writer's board.


Thanks,
Ray

Maryn
06-02-2005, 05:44 AM
Clicked when I should've clacked, or I wouldn't have seen this thread at all.

I know the OP is banned, but I wanted to commend the many people here who were extremely gentle with a wanna-be writer who appeared to have little chance of success. I don't know of another board where someone whose skills were so lacking would have received solid advice and honest encouragement.

Good place to be. Give yourselves an "Ay" on the good deeds thread.

Maryn, pleased to be among such good company

William Haskins
06-02-2005, 08:47 AM
i wonder if we don't do a disservice sometimes by treating people with kid gloves as a guiding principle of the boards.

it's a good policy, don't get me wrong. it makes for a big tent, and anyone out there in internet-land can always find a community here ready to welcome them with open arms. so, in terms of traffic volume and visibility, i can fully understand the "be supportive" mantra of AW.

however, i wonder if sometimes the novice and the hopeless aren't so comfortable here that there is no real impetus for them to grow and challenge themselves to improve.

of course, i shall remain my supremely polite self, but still...

maestrowork
06-02-2005, 09:06 AM
Come over to SYW and offer your most critical but honest critiques. I'm sure the newbies would benefit for some honest insight.

Celeste
06-02-2005, 09:21 AM
I understand what you're saying, William. And I kind of agree.

When I read the two articles, I was shocked. Well, I don't know if shocked is the right word, but...

At first, I wanted to post and say, "Chelle, What the hell are you doing?", but then I wasn't sure how to respond to her because she seemed to want to learn and improve so much. So, I wasn't sure if she even knew what she did was wrong. I later found out, from her, that she knew what she was doing. She told me she felt pressured by so many here to prove that she could write and get published.

At first, I felt sad for her that she'd let herself be so pressured by others that she felt she had do to such a thing. But then I thought, if you're grown up enough to know right from wrong, you knew what you were doing (stealing, deceiving) then you need to act grown up and take responsibilty for your actions. So, yeah, I think that maybe she may have been treated like a child, when she should have been confronted as the adult that she is.

:Shrug:

triceretops
06-02-2005, 02:13 PM
I just caught the fanny-end of this thread and it depressed me. Also did a little research about the main player here. Celeste, you're such a doll babe for helping this person out, and that goes to the rest of you. I do think we need compassion when we don't know what the facts are here. By that, I mean this lady might have been the recipient of a stroke or a slight mental disorder, or just plain not up to par in a skilled and intellectual sense. I have a 50-year-old sister who writes on a sixth grade level, but you would never know it, speaking to her. She was just plain lazy in school. Sometimes we'll get some of these folks here, and honestly its hard to deal with it sometimes. Maybe it's fortunate she got the news at AW. We have less of a tendency to play hard ball with someone who is having trouble playing ping pong. I'm praying for this little lady and I hope she finds the Write path to her dreams.

Triceratops

Sheryl Nantus
06-02-2005, 05:01 PM
fwiw, the articles in question are still up at Associated Content...

:Shrug:

Celeste
06-02-2005, 05:59 PM
I just caught the fanny-end of this thread and it depressed me. Also did a little research about the main player here. Celeste, you're such a doll babe for helping this person out, and that goes to the rest of you. I do think we need compassion when we don't know what the facts are here. By that, I mean this lady might have been the recipient of a stroke or a slight mental disorder, or just plain not up to par in a skilled and intellectual sense. I have a 50-year-old sister who writes on a sixth grade level, but you would never know it, speaking to her. She was just plain lazy in school. Sometimes we'll get some of these folks here, and honestly its hard to deal with it sometimes. Maybe it's fortunate she got the news at AW. We have less of a tendency to play hard ball with someone who is having trouble playing ping pong. I'm praying for this little lady and I hope she finds the Write path to her dreams.

Triceratops


I'm not sure of exactly what she suffers from. I've heard it's dyslexia, but it seems to be a bit more. I've talked to her a few times since she's been banned and edited three articles for her two days ago, so she is still trying. But she has a ways to go. I do hope that she can eventually improve to where she can do it on her own. I think it is probably best that she did get the news here at AW. She's a bit resentful toward the board, saying that people were trying to discourage her. But she fails to see that people were just trying to teach her and let her know that she can't expect to get away with the things she was doing. I think everyone was very patient with her for the most part. She wrote me a long e-mail telling me how much she wants to write, that she's stupid, can't do it and thanked me for believing in her when her own family doesn't. It brought tears to my eyes. I feel so sad for her because she wants it so bad, but I'm not sure that she's grasping what she needs to do to improve herself. I've given her all the advice I can give and have helped her with her articles this week. I just hope that she takes the advice and uses it. I really do wish the best for her. She really is a sweet girl. She sends me thank you e-cards all the time. I just want her to be able to see where she needs to improve and be able to do it on her own. I've let myself get too emotionally close to her and I really don't even know her. It just kills me to see someone want something so bad, but I'm not positive that she'll be able to do it. It just makes me sad. I'll try to encourage her as much as I can. But I hope she doesn't get too used to me editing her work for her and then start to think that I'll keep doing it. I did it just to get her going, hoping that she'd see where I fixed her mistakes and learn from the revisions. But I don't think she is, though. I may be wrong, maybe she is learning from them. I sure hope so. I just wish her the best.

mommie4a
06-02-2005, 06:57 PM
however, i wonder if sometimes the novice and the hopeless aren't so comfortable here that there is no real impetus for them to grow and challenge themselves to improve.

From a purely clinical perspective, you're right on the money, William. One general tenet of therapy is that a person won't get themselves in it unless they become so uncomfortable that they cease to function in a way even they can live with.

I guess the Board issue is, what role do any of us have in helping someone come to realize where they stand, as that position relates to their writing? I don't know the answer. Some of the answer comes from that person him or herself - what do their posts ask for in terms of feedback?

I have to say that I try to err on the side of being too gentle mostly because this is a one-dimensional medium, you can't see facial or body reactions, can't hear tone all that well and we just don't know each other beyond what we've presented here.

That said, for me, I know I much prefer a nasty assessment of my work than kudos all the time because those kudos get diluted without real criticism. Of course, I'm also just hard on myself so I tend to not believe the kudos so much.

Important issues raised - thanks.

veinglory
06-02-2005, 07:00 PM
Good general points but perhaps to be discussed elsewhere rather than in relation to a person who is unable to reply, comment or correct material relating to them?

mommie4a
06-02-2005, 07:01 PM
Good general points but perhaps to be discussed elsewhere rather than in relation to a person who is unable to reply, comment or correct material relating to them?

I'm sorry - what do you mean?

triceretops
06-02-2005, 07:04 PM
Geez, you just about got me blubbering now. That ain't good for a big ex-fed cop either, I'm here to tell ya. My roomates will beat the tar out of me for conduct unbecoming. However, when our humanity stops for another soul we might as well hang it up as a species, eh. That's a right beautiful thing you did, Celeste. Allow LT. Stevenson to award you an Accomodation For Bravery:Trophy:

Tri

veinglory
06-02-2005, 07:06 PM
I was referring to speculations in some earlier posts about the topic starter's disorders and copying. She can't respond anymore so it might be good to extract more general discussion onto a fresh thread?

maestrowork
06-02-2005, 07:11 PM
There's a difference between being supportive and condoning/encouraging wrongful bebaviors.

eldragon
06-02-2005, 07:28 PM
Well, let me put in my two cents here.

The lady had convinced herself that she wrote the article ......

I read it and knew it was professionally written.

Then she backtracked ...became offended.

I'm not sure she learned anything.

Sheryl Nantus
06-02-2005, 09:02 PM
Well, let me put in my two cents here.

The lady had convinced herself that she wrote the article ......

I read it and knew it was professionally written.

Then she backtracked ...became offended.

I'm not sure she learned anything.

and the articles are still up.

'nuff said.

MacAllister
06-02-2005, 09:09 PM
I'm with Veinglory on this one, folks--She can still read the boards, just can't respond.

This was a regretable thing. If we want to talk about the plagiarism issue in general, I'd like to suggest a new thread, where it isn't linked so closely with the OP's name.

Closing this, now...