question: contest entry fees

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McCann

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Seeing as I have never entered a writing contest, nor ever had a single item published, the following question occurs to me.

Would any of you more experienced writers give your opinions on entry fees for writing contests?

Here is one specific (hehehe) example
http://www.specficworld.com/contest.html

It just always seemed to me that paying to enter a contest was more of a scam thing than anything else. That's what I was always taught.


Ray McCann


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Cannibals: The other White Meat
 

MacAllister

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Ah--the entry fee is $7, which is not outrageous. There are legit contests out there that have an entry fee, McCann--Glimmer Train comes immediately to mind.

My take on it though, is that if I have a story I think can win a contest--why on earth wouldn't I just submit it to paying markets?

Meanwhile, I'm going to divert this post to Writing Short Fiction--where I think you'll get a bit more action on it. :)
 
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TemlynWriting

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MacAllister said:
Meanwhile, I'm going to divert this post to Writing Short Fiction--where I think you'll get a bit more action on it. :)

Thanks Mac. :) I was trying to figure out where to move it to, because the Paying Markets is intended for editors to post their paying markets. Usually I move discussions to Freelance Writing, but I didn't think it belonged there, either. Fiction was a good choice! Thanks again! :)
 

Jamesaritchie

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Contests

There are legitimate contests where the entry fee is worth paying. There are many, many more contests where it's foolish to pay an entry fee because even if you win, so what?

You have to look at who sponsors the contest, who judges it, what kind of exposure you get if you win, etc.
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
While specficworld is a legitimate site and I would trust their contest to be on the up-and-up, I have to agree with Mac. Why enter a contest? If your story is good enough to win or place in a contest, then it is good enough to be published.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Contests

Birol said:
If your story is good enough to win or place in a contest, then it is good enough to be published.

This is often true, but pubished where? Just because something is published doesn't automatically mean good exposure or a real break. Winning one of the better contests can not only give a writer more exposure than anything except a handful of national mags, but it can also guarantee being published in a great place.

Some of the better contests, such as "Writers of the Future," the St. Martin's Mystery novel contests, and the ABC/Disney Felowship contests don't even charge an entry fee. Some other contests that do charge an entry fee, such as The Writer's Digest Annual contests, and the Golden Heart, etc., can take the winner much further than can ordinary publication.

Most contests are useless, but the good ones can offer writers a real chance to jump miles ahead in their career path. You just have to be highly selective.
 

michaeloppen

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Contest entry fees

I never enter contests that charge fees. I think I've posted my reason in the past, but I'll repeat it because it's so sensible.

Most contests have modest fees - say $10. Most of us can afford that, so what's the big deal? Why shouldn't you enter one now and then?

My response is to ramp up the argument by a factor of 100. Most of us could pay $10 for a contest, but would you pay $1000 to enter a hundred contests? Remember, your chance of winning is still tiny; contests receive an avalanche of entries. How many of you out there would write that check?
 

Jamesaritchie

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michaeloppen said:
I never enter contests that charge fees. I think I've posted my reason in the past, but I'll repeat it because it's so sensible.

Most contests have modest fees - say $10. Most of us can afford that, so what's the big deal? Why shouldn't you enter one now and then?

My response is to ramp up the argument by a factor of 100. Most of us could pay $10 for a contest, but would you pay $1000 to enter a hundred contests? Remember, your chance of winning is still tiny; contests receive an avalanche of entries. How many of you out there would write that check?

Contests aren't a matter of luck, but of skill. At least, the good ones are. It isn't like buying a lottery ticket. Using the word "odds" really doesn't apply at all.

If the contest is a good one, it makes just as much sense to pay a ten dollar entry fee as it does to pay twenty or thirty dollars for material to submit your novel. Or to pay for submitting stories to magazines where the "odds" are far worse, and the competition is teh best writers in the world.

By your logic, you should never pay money to submit a story to a top magazine. The competition is many times tougher at good magazines because you have the best writers and biggest names in the world going against you. Most often, the competition in contests is amateur competition, and while some of these writers will be very good, the talent and skill level almost never approaches the level you face with good magazines and book publishers.

As for an "avalanche" of entries, I don't know of a single contest that receives nearly as many entries as the average paying magazine. Some magazines receive 30,000 manuscripts a year, and even a "small" magazine with a circulation of under 25K will usually receive close to 1,000 manuscripts per month.

Worse, very few paying magazines publish more than one new writer each issue, and many may not publish more than one or two new writers per year.

With paying magazines, you're really competing against the top 4% of all submissions. Nearly 100% of all stories magazines buy come from 4% of submissions, mostly from pro writers with lots of serious credits and significant name recognition. With contests, however, you're usually competing against the top one half of one percent of all submissions, mostly from amateur writers no one has ever heard of. The overall talent and skill level is simply much lower in the vast majority of contests.

"Odds" really is the wrong way to look at it. But if you insist on "odds," then if you're good, your "odds" of winning a contest are far better than your "odds" of being accepted by a good magazine. "Good" often isn't good enough with paying magazines. And you will, on average, spend many, many times that ten dollar entry fee in submission costs long before you get accepted by a top magazine or a mainstream book publisher.

But the better contests absolutely can give a writer the boost he or she needs to break the good magazine barrier, or the mainstream publisher barrier.

I doubt very much there are a hundred good contests out there, I doubt there are half that many, but if there were, and if I were a new writer, I'd write that check and mail it so fast the ink wouldn't be dry when they received it.

If you really want to put the "odds" in your favor, good contests are definitely the way to go.
 
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sjanssens

Writers of the Future is probably the most well known contest. Finishing in the top ten or so will get you in the anthology (which counts as a pro sale if that's a concern). Still, there's not a ton of exposure that comes from winning the grand prize. I could say so and so won the 2002 WotF grand prize and people would know what I was talking about, they might even be impressed (but probably not). But if I asked who won in 2002, no one who didn't make the anthology could tell me.
 

Jamesaritchie

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sjanssens said:
Writers of the Future is probably the most well known contest. Finishing in the top ten or so will get you in the anthology (which counts as a pro sale if that's a concern). Still, there's not a ton of exposure that comes from winning the grand prize. I could say so and so won the 2002 WotF grand prize and people would know what I was talking about, they might even be impressed (but probably not). But if I asked who won in 2002, no one who didn't make the anthology could tell me.

Every magazine and book SF editor will tell you exactly who won and when. So could pretty much every agent who handles SF.

It isn't exposure with readers that matters, and it doesn't matter whether or not most people have ever heard of you. But if you win Writers of the Future, or place in the top ten, you have the most important kind of exposure there is. . .the right editors and agents now know who you are, and what you've accomplished.

The point of good contests isn't to gain exposure with the public, but to put a neon sign on your queries that will impress agents and editors. Winning or placing in the WotF does this better than anything else I know.
 
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