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Bravo
02-11-2009, 07:02 AM
a lot of times, psychiatrists like to explain that we have mental gates in our head which channel our thoughts and feelings, while keeping certain things safely blocked off.

for some people, those gates are open, and they're driven insane by all the thoughts and images running through their heads.

do you ever wonder what that makes the rest of us? that we have to block off our empathy for others and our bad memories in order to be "sane" and survive?

Just Jack
02-11-2009, 07:22 AM
Maybe we're just selfish?

Or perhaps the "insane" ones are actually the normal ones. And we're the ones with the problem.

Red_Dahlia
02-11-2009, 07:41 AM
Maybe that's why they say there's a fine line between genius and insanity?

I mean, geniuses must have an awful lot of those gates open, right?

Shadow_Ferret
02-11-2009, 08:15 AM
What?

Don Allen
02-11-2009, 08:16 AM
I sometimes wonder if insanity isn't miscalculated, is it insane to enjoy killing and torturing for example, or is it just an act of regressive anger? I have no clue as to the answer so please don't break my balls, i've just wondered these things before.

Mumut
02-11-2009, 04:58 PM
The guard to the mind. Wasn't that Freud's Id? Anyway, the thought of insanity sends me crazy.

CaroGirl
02-11-2009, 05:07 PM
Isn't it just unconscious self-preservation? Who would choose to be insane? Most insane people don't look particularly happy or productive to me. I'm glad my unconscious, or subconscious, protects me from psychosis, aren't you?

NeuroFizz
02-11-2009, 05:09 PM
I suspect "normal (?)" people are able to balance their experiences (good and bad) and extract useful information from them as experiential value that can be applied to future endeavors. In other words, they are able to close the gate so as not to inordinately dwell on any experiences, and let them control behavior out of proportion to the real events. So, maybe its a problem of proportion of attention and the resulting apportion of behavior.

Don Allen
02-11-2009, 05:15 PM
I do think truly insane people are noticably insane, i mean that their actions are outwardly off. People say Dahlmer, Bundy, and Manson are, or were insane, I personally think they just enjoyed what they did.

Wayne K
02-11-2009, 05:21 PM
a lot of times, psychiatrists like to explain that we have mental gates in our head which channel our thoughts and feelings, while keeping certain things safely blocked off.

for some people, those gates are open, and they're driven insane by all the thoughts and images running through their heads.

do you ever wonder what that makes the rest of us? that we have to block off our empathy for others and our bad memories in order to be "sane" and survive?

You need to read my book A Life Gone Awry: A Soliloquy of Love and Hate. It's almost like you wrote an intro for it. I heard that movie guy's voice in my head as I read it.

ErylRavenwell
02-11-2009, 05:31 PM
The guard to the mind. Wasn't that Freud's Id? Anyway, the thought of insanity sends me crazy.

No, it's the ego. If we use the analogy of the horseman and the horse for the ego and the id respectively, then the ego is the horseman who checks the superior power of the horse, the id.

NeuroFizz
02-11-2009, 05:32 PM
giddyup

scarletpeaches
02-11-2009, 05:42 PM
Too many people think various mental 'disorders' are to be cured but if one can live with them and not lose touch with reality to their own or others' detriment, who cares?

Don Allen
02-11-2009, 05:54 PM
...and that couldn't be more true with what they're doing to kids in schools nowadays, at least here in the states where half a fucking classroom is on riddlin

ErylRavenwell
02-11-2009, 05:56 PM
...and that couldn't be more true with what they're doing to kids in schools nowadays, at least here in the states where half a fucking classroom is on riddlin

Blame it on the eggheads and their ridiculous theories. Wonder why I'm an anti-intellectual.

Don Allen
02-11-2009, 05:58 PM
Blame it on the eggheads and their ridiculous theories. Wonder why I'm an anti-intellectual.

or drug companies.....

ErylRavenwell
02-11-2009, 06:02 PM
or drug companies.....

Boils down to the same thing. They are the ones designing the drugs in the first place.

CaroGirl
02-11-2009, 06:03 PM
I know! My son struggles with attention problems in school so we sent him for psychological testing, mainly to fast-track him toward the extra help he needed. The psychologist concluded that he has ADHD and should be immediately put on Ritalin. WTF? He's not disruptive, has loads of friends, and is generally a pleasant boy who just struggles academically, mostly in math. I want my boy to be himself, not some drugged up version of himself (not unless totally necessary). Of course, we declined the "medication."

brokenfingers
02-11-2009, 06:04 PM
Blame it on marketing and the culture of greed.

Money trumps all. No matter how it's gotten.

Even at the expense of our future generations.

Don Allen
02-11-2009, 06:11 PM
Not to derail Bravo's fine thread, but this drug thing and kids is really insane, my sister who lives in a rural community was telling me that at least 1/3 of the kids are on some kind of med program at the school. I couldn't believe it but its true. They get these kids popping pills instead of trying to deal with their issues, and before you know it they're hooked in the cycle. I just read and damn if I can't find the link, some outrageous number of kids between 8-16 are commiting suicide, tell me that drugs aren't related to this picture, and I'm not talking about illegal ones.

NeuroFizz
02-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Blame it on the eggheads and their ridiculous theories. Wonder why I'm an anti-intellectual.
Yup. String up all the eggheads. Never mind the medical profession and the drug companies. The eggheads don't write the prescriptions. The eggheads don't get kickbacks (or other perks) from the drug companies if they prescribe certain medications. The eggheads don't do the testing of the various drugs. The eggheads only get all the blame because of their perverted theories. Right?

Shadow_Ferret
02-11-2009, 06:32 PM
Wow. the misinformation in this thread is appalling.

NeuroFizz
02-11-2009, 06:38 PM
You guys (intellectuals) created the system from ground up. So you tell me, bud.
We did not create the medial profession. We did not create the drug companies. Otherwise, we'd be in the money stream.

A colleague works on the toxins in red tide poisoning. His group recently found a chemical that has has positive benefits for the symptoms of a horrible disease--cystic fibrosis. The chemical is now in the testing phase (which is totally out of his control). So what if the FDA approves this as a prescribable drug and it turns out it is later over-marketed by drug companies and over-prescribed by the medical profession. Skewer my colleague?

CaroGirl
02-11-2009, 06:40 PM
Wow. the misinformation in this thread is appalling.
I'm not against Ritalin, per se. My gf's daughter verges on manic and is totally incapable of being in a classroom without it. It works for her. She needs it. My son is only mildly afflicted with ADHD tendencies. He needs classroom accommodations, not medication. If he couldn't function and were very troubled, I wouldn't hesitate to try anything to help him. What parent wouldn't do everything in their power to help their own child?

Ritalin is a great drug for the children who need it. My point is, not every child needs it.

Shadow_Ferret
02-11-2009, 06:41 PM
Skewer my colleague?
Mmm. Rotisserie doc. That's good eats. :)

Shadow_Ferret
02-11-2009, 06:48 PM
I'm not against Ritalin, per se. My gf's daughter verges on manic and is totally incapable of being in a classroom without it. It works for her. She needs it. My son is only mildly afflicted with ADHD tendencies. He needs classroom accommodations, not medication. If he couldn't function and were very troubled, I wouldn't hesitate to try anything to help him. What parent wouldn't do everything in their power to help their own child?

Ritalin is a great drug for the children who need it. My point is, not every child needs it.
No, not every child needs it. And believe me, I thought the same as you. I didn't want my son taking drugs, I didn't want his personality to change. But we went to our pediatrician and asked for a recommendation. We trusted his judgement and the doctor we took our son to is a good friend, associate, and trained under the top ADHD man in the country, Dr. Russell A. Barkley. We learned everything we could about ADHD and the drugs used to treat it and came away with a better understanding of what is going on inside the brain.

I'm not saying you don't understand, I'm just bringing up that there is a lot of misunderstanding about ADHD, what it is, and there is a lot of fear about Ritalin when there shouldn't be.

Our son had trouble keeping on task, he couldn't sit in class, he wasn't disruptive, per se, but he was struggling in his school work. At home getting him to read, heck, a 5 minute reading assignment took over an hour!

Since we put him on the medication he's become one of the top kids in his class. And his personality hasn't changed. He still knows what buttons to push to get me to explode. :)

ErylRavenwell
02-11-2009, 06:54 PM
We did not create the medial profession. We did not create the drug companies. Otherwise, we'd be in the money stream.

A colleague works on the toxins in red tide poisoning. His group recently found a chemical that has has positive benefits for the symptoms of a horrible disease--cystic fibrosis. The chemical is now in the testing phase (which is totally out of his control). So what if the FDA approves this as a prescribable drug and it turns out it is later over-marketed by drug companies and over-prescribed by the medical profession. Skewer my colleague?

I get your point. But what piss me off is that an awful amount of money and time is wasted on conjectures and research that leads nowhere while millions are dying, say, of malaria.

CaroGirl
02-11-2009, 06:59 PM
Not putting the boy on Ritalin was a tough decision. I have more than one friend whose child struggles with ADHD and learning disabilities. The one whose daughter has a severe disability had a lot of difficulty finding the right medication at the right dose. I watched the poor child fall asleep in the middle of the day, become lethargic and not "herself" at all. I watched her lose an alarming amount of weight. She still has little to no appetite but they have found the dose and combination that works for her, so she can enjoy some learning success in the classroom.

My son is doing better this year. He has an individual education plan and is learning strategies to cope with his attention problems, strategies that I hope will carry him into adulthood. ADHD is for life, and one of my worries was that he wouldn't learn how to manage his issues if they were masked by medication. Rightly or wrongly, it was a concern I had.

Parents must be armed with knowledge and a clear understanding of their own child and his needs.

Shadow_Ferret
02-11-2009, 07:01 PM
To be honest, I'm 51 and still haven't learned to manage my issues. I'm thinking of going on meds myself since they're doing my son so well.

NeuroFizz
02-11-2009, 07:05 PM
I get your point. But what piss me off is that an awful amount of money and time is wasted on conjectures and research that leads nowhere while millions are dying, say, of malaria.
Most of the modern medical advances have their origin in basic research on animals (or plants) far removed from humans. My colleague is a perfect example. Cut off basic research that doesn't directly address a human condition and you'll essentiall cut off all future medical advances. No one knows what chemical isolated from an obscure plant or animal will be the next medical miracle. No one knows how studying the learning abilities of a sea slug could possibly lead to advances in the study of the human mind (see the 2000 Nobel Prizes in Physiology and Medicine). No one knows how the escape response of a squid could possibly improve the human condition (everything we know about how nerve cells work comes from research on squid, and it resulted in Nobel Prizes in the 1950s). This is one of the main misconceptions, on the part of the public, about how science works. One can't build a house without laying a good foundation. And you may want to trace the background research that led to the discovery of the vectors of malaria infection (why should we have funded mosquito research?), and the discovery of the drugs that combat malaria. The bacground discoveries came from basic research and led to the applied research on malaria.

Note added edit: So sorry for the derail, but I can't let the misconceptions go, and I really do appreciate Eryl's comments because they underline how the public sees basic research, and how wrong that view (public's view) really is in terms of improving the human condition.

Bravo
02-11-2009, 08:08 PM
I suspect "normal (?)" people are able to balance their experiences (good and bad) and extract useful information from them as experiential value that can be applied to future endeavors. In other words, they are able to close the gate so as not to inordinately dwell on any experiences, and let them control behavior out of proportion to the real events. So, maybe its a problem of proportion of attention and the resulting apportion of behavior.

but here's the thing:

how do "normal" people decide what's proportionate?

when you have something like a massive disaster or a brutal war, how do you put that into perspective? you had +250K people wiped out by the asian tsunami, that's a number that most minds can't understand. so to remain normal, we took it in for a brief moment and then tucked it behind a gate. we had to do that, because if we didn't, if we actually thought and comprehended the loss, we'd go nuts.

and that's just one example of the massive amounts of compartmentalizing we do, just think about how often you do it in your day to day life. how often you keep quiet (or at least restrained) when a person cuts in front of you or says a hurtful remark. you have to block it off in order to function.

crazy.

Libbie
02-11-2009, 08:36 PM
do you ever wonder what that makes the rest of us? that we have to block off our empathy for others and our bad memories in order to be "sane" and survive?

I don't block them off. I just channel them in ways that society finds acceptable.

Beach Bunny
02-11-2009, 08:58 PM
Before getting back to the point of this thread, I want to say something about this:




I know! My son struggles with attention problems in school so we sent him for psychological testing, mainly to fast-track him toward the extra help he needed. The psychologist concluded that he has ADHD and should be immediately put on Ritalin. WTF? He's not disruptive, has loads of friends, and is generally a pleasant boy who just struggles academically, mostly in math. I want my boy to be himself, not some drugged up version of himself (not unless totally necessary). Of course, we declined the "medication."


Not to derail Bravo's fine thread, but this drug thing and kids is really insane, my sister who lives in a rural community was telling me that at least 1/3 of the kids are on some kind of med program at the school. I couldn't believe it but its true. They get these kids popping pills instead of trying to deal with their issues, and before you know it they're hooked in the cycle. I just read and damn if I can't find the link, some outrageous number of kids between 8-16 are commiting suicide, tell me that drugs aren't related to this picture, and I'm not talking about illegal ones.


I'm not against Ritalin, per se. My gf's daughter verges on manic and is totally incapable of being in a classroom without it. It works for her. She needs it. My son is only mildly afflicted with ADHD tendencies. He needs classroom accommodations, not medication. If he couldn't function and were very troubled, I wouldn't hesitate to try anything to help him. What parent wouldn't do everything in their power to help their own child?

Ritalin is a great drug for the children who need it. My point is, not every child needs it.

Unfortunately in the US we have a mindset of take a pill to cure everything. It's a synergistic relationship between doctors AND patients. So many people would rather take a pill to address the symptoms of their problem rather than tackle the root cause of their problem. For example, most people would rather take a pill for high blood pressure than stop smoking, reduce caffeine intake, lose weight, reduce salt intake. Taking a pill is easier than any of that.

If your medical doctor and someone comes to you with a problem, you'll probably prescribe the remedy which has the greatest chance of success; ie taking a pill.

You can find doctors in the US who are open to alternative therapies. However, in my experience, it requires the patient do the work on figuring out the alternatives to conventional medicine. US doctors aren't trained in it and generally know little about it.

Personally, I would like to see US doctors trained not only in conventional medicine, but alternative therapies as well. Maybe one day they will be, but until that time comes, we're stuck having to do our own research on alternative therapies.

The flip side of this are the people who think that because something is natural that it is also safer than manufactured drugs. Nothing could be further from the truth or more dangerous. There are plenty of plants that will kill you if you have certain medical conditions and you eat them. I've seen extracts of them in the Health Food stores with no warning labels on them. So, if you are trying alternative and herbal remedies, do your homework.


Most of the modern medical advances have their origin in basic research on animals (or plants) far removed from humans. My colleague is a perfect example. Cut off basic research that doesn't directly address a human condition and you'll essentiall cut off all future medical advances. No one knows what chemical isolated from an obscure plant or animal will be the next medical miracle. No one knows how studying the learning abilities of a sea slug could possibly lead to advances in the study of the human mind (see the 2000 Nobel Prizes in Physiology and Medicine). No one knows how the escape response of a squid could possibly improve the human condition (everything we know about how nerve cells work comes from research on squid, and it resulted in Nobel Prizes in the 1950s). This is one of the main misconceptions, on the part of the public, about how science works. One can't build a house without laying a good foundation. And you may want to trace the background research that led to the discovery of the vectors of malaria infection (why should we have funded mosquito research?), and the discovery of the drugs that combat malaria. The bacground discoveries came from basic research and led to the applied research on malaria.


Quoted for truth.

Many scientific discoveries of great benefit to humanity were accidents in the laboratory.


but here's the thing:

how do "normal" people decide what's proportionate?

when you have something like a massive disaster or a brutal war, how do you put that into perspective? you had +250K people wiped out by the asian tsunami, that's a number that most minds can't understand. so to remain normal, we took it in for a brief moment and then tucked it behind a gate. we had to do that, because if we didn't, if we actually thought and comprehended the loss, we'd go nuts.

and that's just one example of the massive amounts of compartmentalizing we do, just think about how often you do it in your day to day life. how often you keep quiet (or at least restrained) when a person cuts in front of you or says a hurtful remark. you have to block it off in order to function.

crazy.
Blocking off a painful memory is not necessarily crazy. It can be necessary and appropriate depending on the situation.

Never taking those memories out and dealing with them at an appropriate time and place. And in a manner which does not endanger self or others, can be very dangerous and crazy-making. I'm thinking of the quiet person who has so much rage stuffed down that they suddenly explode and go on a killing spree. That kind of thing.

In my experience, people who need the most psychological help are those who think that there is nothing wrong with them and that they don't need help. They will not seek it and they scorn those who do.

The sanest and mental healthiest people are those who know they are in pain, seek help for it, and actually do the work needed to deal with their emotional upsets. The last part of it is the key. There are a lot of techniques for dealing with psychological traumas, some work, some don't. It is up to the individual to find what works for them and do it. Whatever a person chooses to do: it is not easy and it is not pleasant. Just as having surgery is not pleasant. Dealing with psychological issues is not pleasant. It's messy and bloody and it takes time to recover.

NeuroFizz
02-11-2009, 09:00 PM
but here's the thing:

how do "normal" people decide what's proportionate?

when you have something like a massive disaster or a brutal war, how do you put that into perspective? you had +250K people wiped out by the asian tsunami, that's a number that most minds can't understand. so to remain normal, we took it in for a brief moment and then tucked it behind a gate. we had to do that, because if we didn't, if we actually thought and comprehended the loss, we'd go nuts.

and that's just one example of the massive amounts of compartmentalizing we do, just think about how often you do it in your day to day life. how often you keep quiet (or at least restrained) when a person cuts in front of you or says a hurtful remark. you have to block it off in order to function.

crazy.
It's an excellent question, B. Maybe it's a matter of proximity. We've become hardened to violence, so we can watch some pretty horrific things on the television (even enjoy them if they they are in movies or video games). But if we directly experience them, some of us will develop post-traumatic stress disorder. The proximity of an event probably can alter the perception of reality so there are realities from a distance that are threats, but maybe not directly to us, and their are immediate realities--those that directly threaten us. And maybe at least one type of mental disorder has that proximity property all screwed up. And I think BB is on to part of it--having to do with coping abilities.

Don Allen
02-12-2009, 02:57 AM
No, not every child needs it. And believe me, I thought the same as you. I didn't want my son taking drugs, I didn't want his personality to change. But we went to our pediatrician and asked for a recommendation. We trusted his judgement and the doctor we took our son to is a good friend, associate, and trained under the top ADHD man in the country, Dr. Russell A. Barkley. We learned everything we could about ADHD and the drugs used to treat it and came away with a better understanding of what is going on inside the brain.

I'm not saying you don't understand, I'm just bringing up that there is a lot of misunderstanding about ADHD, what it is, and there is a lot of fear about Ritalin when there shouldn't be.

Our son had trouble keeping on task, he couldn't sit in class, he wasn't disruptive, per se, but he was struggling in his school work. At home getting him to read, heck, a 5 minute reading assignment took over an hour!

Since we put him on the medication he's become one of the top kids in his class. And his personality hasn't changed. He still knows what buttons to push to get me to explode. :)


...And to be fair, I'm sure there are children that benefit from the drug, but my point, and it sounds like you agree since you went to great lengths with your boy, is that are these drugs the only answer in every case? Are we as parent (in general following your example and exploring all the options) or just throwing every kid with a behavior problem on a pill. That's my question.

Wayne K
02-12-2009, 04:19 AM
...And to be fair, I'm sure there are children that benefit from the drug, but my point, and it sounds like you agree since you went to great lengths with your boy, is that are these drugs the only answer in every case? Are we as parent (in general following your example and exploring all the options) or just throwing every kid with a behavior problem on a pill. That's my question.

I'm troubled by the fact that we do that and these pills cause more problems than they cure, if they cure anything at all. "Rare instances of death" should not be considered a side effect.

stormie
02-12-2009, 04:29 AM
Meds--proper psychiatric meds--don't cure anything. They just make the person able to deal with day-to-day life. There are a few good psychiatrists who know how to properly treat children. Or not. A good psychiatrist will not throw pills at any child entering his or her office and will monitor that child each week or month. And there are a handful of children who do exhibit psychiatric tendencies. Notice I say "handful." And in that case, meds will help.

Bravo
02-12-2009, 10:19 AM
one thing about medication that's always been interesting, is that drugs that block certain things out in the mind are considered safe and are widely available, but most drugs that open up channels (like LSD) are criminalized and banned.

CaroGirl
02-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Meds--proper meds--don't cure anything.
I assume you aren't referring to such medications as antibiotics, which do, in fact, cure bacterial infections. So, to what class of medications are you referring? Specifically psychiatric?

Wayne K
02-12-2009, 04:49 PM
one thing about medication that's always been interesting, is that drugs that block certain things out in the mind are considered safe and are widely available, but most drugs that open up channels (like LSD) are criminalized and banned.

Because any drug that you enjoy is a crime against humanlty to the medical community. When I sprained my shoulder it was a muscle that wrapped around the lungs and was keeping me from breathing, and they gave me a pain killer that tricks the mind into thinking the pain isn't there. Of course it didn't work for me, but they held back from giving me real pain killers. It was absurd to me that they have drugs that actually work, and they wont use them because certain people abuse them. In the end a doctor gave me what I needed, but not until I walked out of two emergency rooms.

stormie
02-12-2009, 07:10 PM
I assume you aren't referring to such medications as antibiotics, which do, in fact, cure bacterial infections. So, to what class of medications are you referring? Specifically psychiatric?
Sorry--I wasn't clear. Psychiatric meds.

Shadow_Ferret
02-12-2009, 07:24 PM
Meds--proper meds--don't cure anything. They just make the person able to deal with day-to-day life. There are a few good psychiatrists who know how to properly treat children. Or not. A good psychiatrist will not throw pills at any child entering his or her office and will monitor that child each week or month. And there are a handful of children who do exhibit psychiatric tendencies. Notice I say "handful."
My son's doctor, the psychiatrist, puts it this way. The child is in a "box." The four corners represent, her, our pediatrician, the teacher, and us, the parents. She believes in constantly monitoring the child, sends someone to his class every now and again to observe, the teacher herself writes in a daily notebook on how he did that day (grades from 1 to 5) and if he starts to slip then we know the medication isn't working properly.

To understand how well he's doing no his meds, he was in T-ball last year. First time, never played before. He enjoyed it, he was an average player, but made a lot of mental errors, over running bases, not paying attention to the ball as it rolled past him.

After he started on his meds he became one of the team's top players. Started hitting homeruns. Actually hit for the cycle. And was one of the best defensive players on the team.

stormie
02-12-2009, 07:32 PM
Yes. With a good child psychiatrist and the right meds (and this can take time to find the proper med and dosage), the child can be treated successfully.

Rarri
02-12-2009, 07:33 PM
I'm troubled by the fact that we do that and these pills cause more problems than they cure, if they cure anything at all. "Rare instances of death" should not be considered a side effect.

But virtually every medication out there lists fatality as a side effect.

I don't know, mental illness is a spectrum really: we all have mental health, we're all capable of having mental illness; whether that's the psychiatric equivelent of the sniffles or chronic life-limiting diseases.

Rarri
02-12-2009, 07:34 PM
Oh, for what it's worth, it's the people who were once 'insane' that then get a certificate stating their sanity, how many sane people can claim that?

writerterri
02-13-2009, 12:43 AM
a lot of times, psychiatrists like to explain that we have mental gates in our head which channel our thoughts and feelings, while keeping certain things safely blocked off.

for some people, those gates are open, and they're driven insane by all the thoughts and images running through their heads.

do you ever wonder what that makes the rest of us? that we have to block off our empathy for others and our bad memories in order to be "sane" and survive?


I wish mine were blocked! I don't know which is worse, having the memories always parked at the dock or having them locked away.

Amnesia from my past would be great. I would welcome it with open arms. Then I would love to be reshaped by some fine human beings. Create good, strong memories. Sure good times and bad times come and go, but I would choose no more trauma. I don't think I could handle anymore, emotionally. I think I would crack up for good. I mean really lose touch with reality.

I've tried everything to live a normal life and carry on like a person should but I'm haunted by uncontrolled memories. No one knows though. I pretend I'm okay around people because that's how they want me to be because they love me. But if they can see the movies that play back in my head they would probably run from me. No one should have to go through the things I went through, or hear the things I've heard or see the things I've seen.

I probably need a therapeutic tune up. I had electric shock therapy in the 90's and it did a wonderful thing in my brain. I was able to function again. I'll probably have a tune up. Because after some years it all starts to come back.

I probably can't say this for sure but from where I stand, locked up memories are a good thing. Why would you want to remember something that is locked up? Leave it there!

I wish I could say, "Gee, there's something about my childhood that I can't put my finger on. I don't remember the first 16 years of my life."

There's probably a good reason for that. And if your brain locked it up, I'd say fortune is on your side.

One doesn't need to remember crap like that. Because, once you dig it up there's no going back. Your crap will follow you around like a silent ghost. It waits patiently beside you tapping you on the shoulder, unexpectedly like an old enemy, "Hey, remember me?" And if you don't keep up on your mental health, it'll take you down and you won't even realize it until everyone is asking you what the hockey sticks is wrong with you.?! It'll take you to depths you didn't even know existed. I always imagined the blood spilling from my dad's temple was a relief for him. I actually understand the peace he must of felt dieing; even though it was the most selfish thing he could have done to me. He left his future prison cell to put me in mine permanently because I don't have the guts to do what he did.

Fix your life as it is right now. Don't try to remember stuff. And use my words to learn empathy for another human being.

C.bronco
02-13-2009, 08:13 AM
Someone mentioned food, so I showed up....

Anyhow, to get back on topic: I turn off the radio and turn my back on newsstands when there's anything that involves hurting children. It is not because I don't want to acknowledge that it is out there, but because once I see it, I cannot get it out of my head for days and it tortures me. Anything about harming children makes me ill, and I need to function on a daily basis.

We have to block things out to be productive on occasions, or we would overload.

brainstorm77
02-13-2009, 01:55 PM
I like to call myself ' eccentric' :)

KTC
02-13-2009, 02:26 PM
a lot of times, psychiatrists like to explain that we have mental gates in our head which channel our thoughts and feelings, while keeping certain things safely blocked off.

for some people, those gates are open, and they're driven insane by all the thoughts and images running through their heads.

do you ever wonder what that makes the rest of us? that we have to block off our empathy for others and our bad memories in order to be "sane" and survive?

Some of us learn to live with the curtains open. We walk among you and smile.

Phoebe H
02-13-2009, 02:41 PM
I probably can't say this for sure but from where I stand, locked up memories are a good thing. Why would you want to remember something that is locked up? Leave it there!

I wish I could say, "Gee, there's something about my childhood that I can't put my finger on. I don't remember the first 16 years of my life."

There's probably a good reason for that. And if your brain locked it up, I'd say fortune is on your side.

One doesn't need to remember crap like that. Because, once you dig it up there's no going back. Your crap will follow you around like a silent ghost. It waits patiently beside you tapping you on the shoulder, unexpectedly like an old enemy, "Hey, remember me?" And if you don't keep up on your mental health, it'll take you down and you won't even realize it until everyone is asking you what the hockey sticks is wrong with you.?! It'll take you to depths you didn't even know existed. I always imagined the blood spilling from my dad's temple was a relief for him. I actually understand the peace he must of felt dieing; even though it was the most selfish thing he could have done to me. He left his future prison cell to put me in mine permanently because I don't have the guts to do what he did.

Fix your life as it is right now. Don't try to remember stuff. And use my words to learn empathy for another human being.

Sadly, it doesn't work that way. At least it didn't for me. All the things my brain wouldn't let me realize or remember haunted me just as much when I didn't know what they were. But when you don't know what's going on, you can't figure out why you feel so bad, so you can't even try to fix it. You start figuring that you're making everything up.

And then when you do remember, you are always waiting for the next shoe to drop. "If I could hide *that*," you think, "what else might be in there?"

It may not be true for everyone, but for me, I couldn't start getting better until I started remembering things. The not knowing was the worst of all.

Ken
02-13-2009, 04:22 PM
"blocking off empathy for others," a requeim for survival in civilization?
Not sure I'd agree with this, viewpoint of those psychiatrist's, in view of all the charity people engage in and commiseration for others. Just look at this site, for example. Whenever anyone here posts that something in their lives is not working out so well other members, and sometimes complete strangers, immediately rush in and try to cheer that person up. This happened to me just recently. Got back a couple of rejections in the mail, as I told a fellow member, who proceeded to cheer me up and lift my spirits. Swell world we live in. Got it's problems, but overall a pretty cool place :-)

Wayne K
02-13-2009, 05:05 PM
I wish mine were blocked! I don't know which is worse, having the memories always parked at the dock or having them locked away.

Amnesia from my past would be great. I would welcome it with open arms. Then I would love to be reshaped by some fine human beings. Create good, strong memories. Sure good times and bad times come and go, but I would choose no more trauma. I don't think I could handle anymore, emotionally. I think I would crack up for good. I mean really lose touch with reality.


I did the same. I blocked out a horror from the past, but it kept haunting me until I sat down and wrote about it. The fine human beings you mention, I was lucky enough to meet more than a few. I don't think I'm really a sociopath as I claim in the book either, because I go to the far extreme if I like you. Emotional trauma I can deal with, it's loss that I cannot. I'm convinced that the next person to die on me is going to take me with them.

Bravo
02-13-2009, 07:59 PM
One doesn't need to remember crap like that. Because, once you dig it up there's no going back.

actually, from what i understand, you are not supposed to drudge up traumatic events from the past, and those counselors who keep probing there are failing at their job. if things come out slowly, that's much more effective in dealing with pain.

good luck, terri.



"blocking off empathy for others," a requeim for survival in civilization?
Not sure I'd agree with this, viewpoint of those psychiatrist's, in view of all the charity people engage in and commiseration for others.


i definitely think we have to block off (or at least, limit) our empathy; we can't sit around internalizing other people's trauma and pain. it becomes much too much to bear then.

and a lot of times, charity is done for your own peace of mind, for you to believe that you are doing something that is worthwhile so you can move on with your own life. i'm not saying that's right or wrong, just saying we have to be careful about the limit we reach out and feel others' pain, because if we cross that limit, things can spiral out of control.

Ken
02-13-2009, 08:27 PM
i definitely think we have to block off (or at least, limit) our empathy; we can't sit around internalizing other people's trauma and pain. it becomes much too much to bear then.

...you've got a point here, to a degree. And I think we all do this to a limited extent, as you say. Reminds me of that Robin William's movie when he was a teacher. At first caring and taking real interest in his students, and at the end emotionally distancing himself from students, so as not to have to go through that experience he had again.

Sean D. Schaffer
02-13-2009, 08:49 PM
Isn't it just unconscious self-preservation? Who would choose to be insane? Most insane people don't look particularly happy or productive to me. I'm glad my unconscious, or subconscious, protects me from psychosis, aren't you?


I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but this one post caught my eye. I tend to agree with CaroGirl on this assessment. Living with some mental issues myself, I can tell you all that I'm not having fun. But also, I like what she said at the very top. I have talked with a friend who is also a caregiver, a PCA, I think, and she says that many times the subconscious mind will actually supress bad memories until we're mentally or emotionally capable of handling them. Sometimes we're never ready, and in my case, although I have had some memories trickling back into my mind, I know that I must not be fully ready to handle these memories yet because they're not coming out all at once. I'm sure that, if they did come out all at once, I would cease to have any sense of sanity left, because I've only recently been told of some of the heinous things that are kept inside my repressed memories.

Cranky
02-13-2009, 08:58 PM
I remember very little from before the age of eight, but I know why I don't remember, and I have no urge at all to remind myself.

Knowing what was going on is enough for me, along with the little I do remember, since it had nothing to do with me, specifically.

As far as closing the gates, yeah, I think we kind of do have to do something like that. I can only take so much, and internalizing others' pain, as was mentioned above, can be the straw that broke the camel's back. It's easier to handle, for me, to get angry at the wrongdoer, especially when it comes to crimes against children and innocent people. I can almost literally feel the gates in my brain slam shut.

writerterri
02-17-2009, 09:06 PM
I realize it must be torture to not know what happened, but some people try to remember too hard and have false memories. My mom remembered hers and she fell apart in treatment and later did more drugs over it. She just couldn't deal with it. Then her own mother didn't believe her. I think she was better off not knowing why she was the way she was and worked on her life at the moment. On the other hand, some people are better for it, it depends on the person, the amount of trauma and the support system. If you have no support system, remembering can be catastrophic. I think that most people should work on the present moment, find a balance in their lives, create good memories, take care of the here and now. To say that one needs to remember to get better is just not true, you may never remember and the end result is still the same. You need to work on what's happening now. One could be searching for something to put the blame on as to why they act this way. It could be that you inherited some sort of mental illness and nothing really didn't happen. Depression can cause delusions past, present and future. Not remembering a number of years of your childhood could very well mean something happened but what if it's just that you don't remember your life? It happens.

Take it from someone who can't ever forget, work on what's happening now. Find a balance in life to make it better, you'll have to anyway. And to make it better without remembering is bonus. And if you do remember, you'll be healthier and better equipped when the memory unlocks.

For the empathy people, a balance of that is healthy too. I, too, can be overwhelmed with the bad things of this world. If we balanced it out with forwarding a good deed then our world will be a better place for some. If it hadn't been for some people in my life giving a damn, I would have left a long time ago.

Kate Thornton
02-17-2009, 09:47 PM
I like to pack in as many good experiences as I can - I find that memories, especially the unpleasant traumas and ourtright horrors of my experience are pushed away into the more dim recesses by newer, better memories.

The more I pack into my brain, the less room there is for the bad stuff. I read, do stuff, meet people, go places, live with as much fullness as possible, and the bad stuff recedes. No, it doesn't go away - everything you experience is part of what you are - but you can change your composition through new experience.