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View Full Version : I have to rant about this because I love men



scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 09:00 PM
I really do.

They get a bad rap.

I was pootling about in my local branch library looking for some new books and while I was shelf-surfing I heard the library staff chatting away. No, I wasn't eavesdropping; it's just that no-one knows how to talk quietly these days.

They were all complaining about their men. One in particular was seriously annoyed that her boyfriend had just got back from an overseas trip and a) hadn't brought back a present for their son (despite border controls and rules on importing stuff) and b) didn't want to do any family stuff as soon as he got back; he wanted to go upstairs to bed and sleep. Considering he'd just returned from Eastern Europe, I don't see the problem. Slightly different time zone, long flight...what's her problem?

So they all dogpiled, started whinging about how awful their boyfriends/husbands were. (Uh, what does it say about your character judgement that you chose him, love)? One got annoyed at her husband sitting in his computer chair for six hours on Saturday playing games. She apparently got so angry she burst into tears because he wouldn't even come out for a walk with her, or down the pub, or even help her with the shopping, the fiend!

My view on this is - if a man's been working full time all week and he comes home to a raging nag, that'll achieve nothing. Saturday was his down-time for goodness' sake. The wife complained he did nothing around the house, but did she ask him? And I mean ask, not nag. My impression was she just huffed, tutted, nagged and cried. If you want a man - anyone - to do something, you have to let them know. Speak up. Ask. No-one is a mind-reader.

And tell me this - why should a man who's been working full-time all week have to put up with being whinged at as soon as he comes home? What's wrong with playing computer games and doing nothing all weekend? Why should he have to go out for a walk or to a dinner party with people he doesn't even like or scrub the toilet? If his wife works part-time, what's to stop her cleaning the bathroom when she gets in if it's that important? It's only fair, to me. She works p/t, he works f/t...so he has less chance to take care of things at home. And it doesn't take away from her down-time. No-one's saying she can't play video games too, or go for a walk.

I bet she never even asked him. The way she spoke, it was, "What time did you get up today while I was working? Are you going to help me with the shopping? Have you been playing on the computer all day?"

Call me old-fashioned, but my way of playing it would be to simply say, "Could you help me with the shopping, please? I'll be leaving in around half an hour and I'd appreciate an extra pair of hands for the bags; that way it'll get done a lot quicker." No nagging. You state your case and why you're asking. Job done.

I tried not to hear what they were saying because it was grossly disrespectful to their husbands and boyfriends. I really don't like to hear it. Continued my shelf surfing. Another librarian was shelving books near me and she rolled her eyes and I heard her murmur, "See, I can't complain. I'm married to a great man."

I smiled and said, "Even if you weren't, then - you'd do something about it or leave, wouldn't you?" She nodded and I continued. "I mean, what's the point of moaning about it? Do something or get out. Otherwise you sound like a nag." That's one of my greatest fears in a relationship. Turning into a nag.

Me and the librarian (I know her name but won't say for the sake of her own privacy) chatted about relationships for five minutes, putting the world to rights. She said her son got married last year and she loves the fact she's got time with her husband now the kids have all left home. Too many marriage partners look at each other and think, "I don't know you any more," because they've spent decades wrapped up in the kids rather than working on their partnership but not her. She loves it, she loves her husband and she loves their marriage.

Not that I'm saying it's perfect, but I'd guess she's the type of person who, were she to have a gripe with her husband - would go to her husband, not cackle to her workmates over a mug of coffee in the staffroom.

I really, really don't get that sort of attitude. Too many women try to score my-man's-a-bastard points off each other and it's doesn't make them look like martyrs. It makes them look like harpies. One even said, "I do all the cooking. I do all the cleaning. And what thanks do I get? He does nothing."

What do you want? A medal? And why should your man do anything if you already do it all? He probably thinks you get off on being a martyr, then boasting about how hardworking you are with the girls back at the library.

Do women seriously think bitching to other people will turn their husband into the perfect man? Have they never thought of looking at themselves and wondering what they're doing to perpetuate a situation they're so unhappy with?

So on behalf of all nagging women out there, I'd like to apologise to the opposite sex. Sorry that there are so many harpies out there who treat you like incompetents or children. Sorry they don't appreciate what you do rather than keeping a tally of what you don't.

I know there are men out there who are bad 'uns. And there are many good women. I'm not directing my words at those sorts of people. No, I'm talking about women who think that by telling a man how useless he is (or telling their workmates) he'll be inspired to change into their idea of Mr Perfect.

Gah! You keep telling someone (and your work colleagues) how useless they are, why should they make an effort to impress you?

/rant off.

CACTUSWENDY
02-09-2009, 09:30 PM
Since no man in my life....will run off and find new ways, (there were no old ways....) to use the word...pootling. (Love it.)

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 09:36 PM
I frequently pootle. As a single woman, I find it occupies my time quite nicely. :D

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 09:37 PM
You just explained 99.8% of the problems in my previous relationships. Me and nags don't mix.

Fenika
02-09-2009, 09:39 PM
Pootling matches your av. I can see your ovalness pootling between rows and rows of books.

I have nothing to add, other than I'm sick of the whinage crap myself. Save me.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 09:41 PM
Maybe we need a separate 'pootling' thread.

Mr Flibble
02-09-2009, 09:42 PM
There are such easy ways to get a guy to do stuff if you need him to.

A gentle 'If you mow the lawn now, you'll get more beer time at the pub' or 'If I can have a rest while you cook, I'll have more energy later ^^' generally does the trick I find :D

Either that or LEAVE THE BLOODY RADIATOR I BOUGHT SIX MONTHS AGO IN HIS WAY SO HE FALLS OVER IT AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, INSTALLS THE THING!!! *cough*

Sorry - he was watching what I was typing, and I'm subtle like that.

My man ain't perfect by a long shot. But he's got the best bits down pat, so I don't sweat the small stuff.

Although heating in the bedroom would be quite nice this time of year.

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 09:43 PM
The funny thing is, most people don't start out as nags. They "fall in love" and they tolerate each other (or at least, love is blind). It's only after they've been together for some time when the nagging begins, as if the other person has changed. No they haven't. It's just that they start to see the "bad" stuff and decide they won't tolerate them anymore. Also, it shows me that these people (men and women alike) are insecure about themselves and their relationships. It's a bad cycle.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 09:45 PM
Yeah. I agree. Plus, I don't think relationships ought to be hard work. Not that any marriage is perfect, oh no, but...let's go into it with a realistic view of each other. That way when the honeymoon period's over, the disillusionment won't be so jarring! :D

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 09:51 PM
In a way I don't believe in marriage because I feel that marriage changes everything. Suddenly the expectations become high and the rules change. As if there were a switch somewhere. We were happy just the way things were before, but suddenly we're not happy now because new expectations aren't being met -- the husband or wife didn't change for the better to suit this new role as a husband or wife. This kind of stuff is why the divorce rate in this country is close to 50%.

NeuroFizz
02-09-2009, 09:53 PM
My experience (the bad one) comes from the initial hope that one partner can make major changes in the other partner. All is well early on, but as time goes on and the results of the hoped-for change are not panning out as expected, frustration and impatience sets in. That's when a relationship goes one of two ways (may be more). If two people get together and have the attitude "he's (or she's) perfect in every way except this one, but I'll have that tended to in short order" the union will probably find some chuckholes, and may even deteriorate over that issue.

Any woman who thinks a man can be trained (or reverse the genders) may want to consider the impact of the training methods to determine if it is worth it in the long run.

Mr Flibble
02-09-2009, 09:53 PM
In a way I don't believe in marriage because I feel that marriage changes everything. Suddenly the expectations become high and the rules change. As if there were a switch somewhere. This kind of stuff is why the divorce rate in this country is close to 50%.

Marriage changes nothing really

If you had a crap relationship before, you still will after. Made no difference to me and the Old Manl ( the only reason we got married was so the kids could have the same name tbh) It was a good excuse for a party lol, and it didn't change our relationship AT ALL. We waited for the kids for that....:D

dpaterso
02-09-2009, 09:56 PM
At the other end of the spectrum, me and my other half get on just great, she doesn't nag, I offer to do stuff and go shopping with her when she wants me to, everything works out fine. Just thought I'd offer another voice to drown out the bleating.

-Derek

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 09:56 PM
I know so many women who marry boyfriends they're not happy with. You ask why. They say, "But I love him." WHY??? Or, "We'll be all right. He'll change."

Uh...yeah. Good luck with that, sister. Why would he change if he's already got you where he wants you? :D

Glad to know I'm not entirely alone in this. I thought I was terribly old-fashioned in my views on certain things; I even had a bunch of friends burst out laughing at me once because I said something like "I'd want to marry a man who was my best friend."

Hell, it doesn't really matter if no women think that way; I just have to find the one Australian man who agrees with me. *coughThorpeycough*

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 09:57 PM
At the other end of the spectrum, me and my other half get on just great, she doesn't nag, I offer to do stuff and go shopping with her when she wants me to, everything works out fine. Just thought I'd offer another voice to drown out the bleating.

-Derek

And I hope Mrs dpaterso tolerates your dressing up as Darth Vader.

GirlWithPoisonPen
02-09-2009, 09:58 PM
There are such easy ways to get a guy to do stuff if you need him to.



Ask him while naked. ;)

quickWit
02-09-2009, 09:59 PM
Everyone and everything changes over time. The trick is to expect the changes to come, whatever they may be, and choose to see the best in your partner anyway.

:)

James81
02-09-2009, 09:59 PM
Yeah. I agree. Plus, I don't think relationships ought to be hard work.

I've always said that being in a relationship is about FINDING the right person, not BEING the right person. Not that you shouldn't strive to be a good person, but you should strive to be a better person for YOU and YOU alone, not for anybody else.

But that being said, you're right. Relationships SHOULDN'T be hard work. When I hear all these people say "relationships take work," I think to myself "why?"

Granted, there are certain things you should do to work toward the relationship together, but I would call those things "maintenance." A relationship takes maintenance. Go on regular dates together, don't forget to appreciate each other once in a while, etc. And yes, there will be fights and struggles, but take them as they come.

But work? WORK? Why on earth would you stay in a relationship that feels like work? If you have to fight everyday to stay in a relationship and it seems like nothing ever changes, have you ever considered that you are with the WRONG PERSON? The perhaps a long term relationship ISN'T this grueling mind-boggling pain that everybody tries to perpetuate it to be?

NeuroFizz
02-09-2009, 09:59 PM
Well, the other side of it is that people will be willing to change out of their love for their partner. And it can be done without either person losing his/her individual identity, they just add on a "we" identity.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:01 PM
Ask him while naked. ;)

Him or her? ;)

dpaterso
02-09-2009, 10:01 PM
And I hope Mrs dpaterso tolerates your dressing up as Darth Vader.
Eh, actually I'm Princess Leia. My other half wears the shiny helmet and cloak. Hey, don't knock it till you try it.

-Derek

NeuroFizz
02-09-2009, 10:02 PM
Him or her?
Won't matter directly. But it will delay the intended overall result.

maxmordon
02-09-2009, 10:03 PM
Thanks, Peaches. I've met too many women like that in life... I was raised by them

Mom, aunt, grandma, grandaunt and great-grandma smoking and complaining about men... what childhood memories! Grandma is the worst, I love her but she assumes one is psychic and nobody works more than her. Mom works 9 to 5 and has to take care of a 4 years old girl and grandma thinks that's easy and nags her for not visit her that day or if she visits her (which is most of the days) why didn't she bought her her meds (and if mom boughts her meds, she doesn't even say thanks)

Though the other side can be guilty at times, I've seen dad, grandpa, granduncles and regular kind of uncles drinking and complaining about women.

I hope that me or my wife, when I get marry if I marry if some good woman loves me, never fall in these rites.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:03 PM
Won't matter directly. But it will delay the intended overall result.

Well if HE is naked and trips over the radiator...

Noah Body
02-09-2009, 10:04 PM
SP, I'd ask for your hand in marriage, but I don't look anything like Farrell. But I do have a better voice than George Clooney, if that matters. :D

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:06 PM
Heh. Not that I started this thread to collect proposals, but it's a pleasant offshoot.

*ahem*

To make it a bit more personal, I saw what my mother's nagging turned her into and years ago I made a prediction that she'd end up a lonely old woman with no friends and...well, it's come true. Last time I saw her she had years of anger and bitterness etched on her face and that's what makes her ugly. She spent her entire life (or the part I saw anyway) fighting against...well, everyone.

Nagging women give me the heebie-jeebies because they remind me of her. Never happy unless they're miserable.

NeuroFizz
02-09-2009, 10:08 PM
For every nagging woman out there, one can easily find an overly-controlling man. And the two can even be reversed.

Noah Body
02-09-2009, 10:09 PM
For sure, but over-controlling men rarely gather in flocks and discuss it. ;)

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 10:10 PM
For every nagging woman out there, one can easily find an overly-controlling man.

A match made in heaven.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:11 PM
They'd cancel each other out.

Noah Body
02-09-2009, 10:12 PM
Jesus, in a relationship like that, absolutely nothing would get done! :D

NeuroFizz
02-09-2009, 10:13 PM
For sure, but over-controlling men rarely gather in flocks and discuss it.
No, they just go to tittie bars.

Mr Flibble
02-09-2009, 10:13 PM
For sure, but over-controlling men rarely gather in flocks and discuss it. ;)

Oh yes, yes they do. You ever heard a load of old school squaddies talk about their women? *shudder*

But heck, I always wonder what the point is of nagging. I ask nicely once. If it doesn't get done, I try naked bribery. if THAT doesn't work, then things start to blow up mysteriously. Concentrates his mind wonderfully :D

Ok, that's not quite true - I never have to go past the naked bribery. I knew he was a lazy sod laid back chap when I married him, and mostly it works well, cos he calms me down and I rev him up. Doesn't mean there aren't niggles, especially when one or other has had a bad day. But we accept each other for who we are, bad bits and all.

Williebee
02-09-2009, 10:15 PM
I'm kinda walking both sides of the fence on this one. First off (married 26 years now), ANY relationship (be it marriage, a job or a warm puppy) takes work, if you want it to last. Work meaning adjustment, trade offs, communication.

Other side of the fence? Some relationships aren't meant to last. And wasting your energy and heart won't make that not true.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:16 PM
Communication, yes, precisely my point (there was one, I promise). :D

It seems disloyal to complain about your spouse to someone outside the marriage. Similar to emotional infidelity I guess.

escritora
02-09-2009, 10:17 PM
It seems disloyal to complain about your spouse to someone outside the marriage.

QFT.

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 10:18 PM
I have no opinion, but if SP starts a thread with "I love men" then I need to post.,......That's all.

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 10:19 PM
I'd never complain. I'd just go to a tittie bar.

Noah Body
02-09-2009, 10:26 PM
See? A rational reason found!

Don Allen
02-09-2009, 10:29 PM
Scarlett, just thinking about your pootling drives me nuts, but as to your point...You lass, are dead on. ...And just to add a flavor, some women forget that a man needs his alone time as well, The home is the only place I can lock myself away for a few hours and write, scope porn, surf and call people rude things under a different name, and generally unwind. I'l take the fucking garbage out, don't worry, just let me be for a while so that when we have are together time, I'm free to enjoy the girl I truly love...

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 10:30 PM
Scarlett, just thinking about your pootling drives me nuts, but as to your point...You lass, are dead on. ...And just to add a flavor, some women forget that a man needs his alone time as well, The home is the only place I can lock myself away for a few hours and write, scope porn, surf and call people rude things under a different name, and generally unwind. I'l take the fucking garbage out, don't worry, just let me be for a while so that when we have are together time, I'm free to enjoy the girl I truly love...

Ditto the porn thing.

Lyra Jean
02-09-2009, 10:30 PM
When I me and my fiance met my friends said. I don't know if I'm happy or scared. I'm happy that you met someone just like yourself and scared that there is someone else out there like you.

We get along great and can talk for hours. Okay all we really have is the phone so it's not really a choice but people are surprised we voluntarily speak to each for hours. Why wouldn't we? We love each other.

Um, yeah we know we'll disagree and have arguments. We're not the head in the clouds everything will be perfect forever couple. We just aren't into playing head games with each other.

CaroGirl
02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
Long-term, committed relationships require work. If you've never had a personal challenge -- a death, job loss, illness, a child with a disability -- your relationship probably hasn't yet been tested. So anyone who says a relationship isn't work, might not have been through such challenges.

My 75 yo mum is recovering from a very serious illness and I get the feeling my dad hasn't been thusly tested (my mother's had umpteen tests with him, but that's another story). He whined and cried to me on the phone every day that she wouldn't get up and get dressed or make him a meal. Hello? Life's tough. Put on your best attitude and get to work. I'm so weak, though. I gave in and went all the way across the country to help him. :flag:

That said, I've probably done my share of whining about my husband instead of working within my relationship to improve things. I regret it, though, and have recently vowed to stop myself whenever tempted to complain. He's a good man and even if he never cleans the bottom of the toilet, I have relatively little to whinge about. I shall focus on the positive or keep my trap firmly shut.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
A male friend of mine told me I think like a man, but that was mainly due to my love of sports and hatred of shopping.

That said, I can completely understand the need for alone-time. To me, that's completely natural, not even a male/female thing...but then I have lived by myself for eleven years, so I'm used to my own company.

When I'm ill, for instance, with a migraine, I cannot STAND anyone fussing around me. I'm the world's worst invalid. I just want everyone to sod off and let me recover on my own.

And sometimes I like to read, or write, or just woolgather...I've never understood the need to live in your spouse's pocket, but then some people are actually scared to be on their own.

Clair Dickson
02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
I'm so with you scarletpeaches. Those sort of conversations are part of the reason I can barely tolerate hanging out with other women. I'm real sorry that they picked worthless or unpleasant men, but I didn't. I picked one I can talk to (well, for the most part, but that's more my issue than his.)

I ask my husband if he'll help out. He, like most guys I know, WANTS to be a partner in our relationship. But he, like many men people don't like to be wrong in everything they do. It's hard to get him to do something after I've criticized him for doing it wrong... luckily, I learned that lesson early and quickly. If it *really* bothers me, then I can do it myself.

No one likes to be wrong all the time. No one likes to play "guess what I'm thinking." And any relationship where the truth is forbidden ("Honey, do I look fat in this?") is very likely to have trouble in my opinion.

I'm not going to pretend my marriage is perfect. But I do love my husband and like spending time with him. I also figure that if he's not happy with me, there's pretty damn good chance he'll find someone to be happy with.

Dating, to me, is often a big bait and switch scheme. When dating, everything is okay, you always dress up nice, and do your damnedest to make sure the other party is happy. Far too often in marriage, all that goes out the window and gee, no one feels appreciated or taken care of.

Yeshanu
02-09-2009, 10:32 PM
Thanks, Peaches. I've met too many women like that in life... I was raised by them

Mom, aunt, grandma, grandaunt and great-grandma smoking and complaining about men... what childhood memories! Grandma is the worst, I love her but she assumes one is psychic and nobody works more than her. Mom works 9 to 5 and has to take care of a 4 years old girl and grandma thinks that's easy and nags her for not visit her that day or if she visits her (which is most of the days) why didn't she bought her her meds (and if mom boughts her meds, she doesn't even say thanks)

Though the other side can be guilty at times, I've seen dad, grandpa, granduncles and regular kind of uncles drinking and complaining about women.

I hope that me or my wife, when I get marry if I marry if some good woman loves me, never fall in these rites.

That's the big problem, sometimes. We assume that others know what we want without asking. Then when we don't get what we want, we whine and complain and nag, when we have no right because we never asked in the first place.

We all do it, I think, though some much more than others.

A story from this hellish week I've had:

My brother's common-law relationship ended recently, and his wife, after 16 years of being a stay-at-home mom, went to school to get training as a private home care provider, and now works full time.

And she went to my brother (who used to work 60+ hours a week to give her and their son everything they wanted) and told him she finally understood what he went through. He'd been doing all the bill paying, all the income earning, all the little mechanical things around the house to keep it going, and now she's got to do that for herself. She apologized to him for her lack of understanding. And she told her mother to shut up and stop dissing him. :D

As for my brother, he will probably never know the flip side--what she did to keep the home clean, running smoothly, and raise his kid to be the wonderful young man he is today. But if any guys want to know what it's like, here's a song for you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1TTXdsCtvw)...

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:32 PM
Ditto the porn thing.

Thirded.

What? What? You think I use all 160gb of this machine for writing?

nevada
02-09-2009, 10:36 PM
I actually don't understand women asking their men to do stuff for them. Okay, yes i'm single and have been my whole life and probably will be forever and ever (*sigh* lol) but seriously, what am i gonna ask him to do that i can't do myself. Sharing chores is one thing but this "helpless woman" routine that i hear some women do, while pootling lol, drives me bonkers. light burned out? move your ass, grab a chair and do it if it bothers you that much. especially when all you get from nagging him is a fight and hurt feelings and sulking. Why is it automatically his job to fix stuff like that? It doesn't even occur to me to ask for help.

I used to work front desk at a hotel and the bitching and complaining that i heard women do about their men was unbelievable. and then the men,while taking a break from the strip bar, would complain about the nagging the women did and i'd be behind the desk thinking "what about me? I don't nag." lol I agree with peaches. I totally don't get this bitching about your man. or your woman, for that matter. having worked in construction, i am very familiar with the bitching men do about their women.

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 10:36 PM
160 gig? Amateur.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:38 PM
I can understand why asking is annoying. After all, when you love someone you anticipate their needs and want to do stuff for them...so to have to ask can seem like, "I shouldn't have to. You should love me enough to know what I need." But then...no-one's a mind reader. You want, you ask. "When I do THIS, can you respond by doing THAT in future." Or suchlike.

And quit with the pootling obsession people!!

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 10:39 PM
According to my wife I don't complain, I bitch and moan. Rarely about her though.

maestrowork
02-09-2009, 10:39 PM
Back to the communication issue: yes, when one person expects the other person to "read minds" it's a HUGE problem with me. I'm sorry, if I'm psychic I'd go on Oprah. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this: "If you loved me, you would have known what I was feeling and thinking." Whoa.

Kate Thornton
02-09-2009, 10:39 PM
DH & I have been married for 30 years come March (it's almost here!)

I married a good friend, and so did he - but good friendships need work to stay good, and we have both adjusted to a good life of shared responsibility and shared joy and separate alone times and spaces. Now we don't have to work quite so hard and life is even better. I just hope I die first, as I can't imagine life without him.

CaroGirl
02-09-2009, 10:43 PM
I actually don't understand women asking their men to do stuff for them.
Here's an attempt to answer that. I work f/t. My husband works f/t. We have 2 kids, 9 & 11, both kids have nightly homework and are in two activities per week, plus we ski every Sunday all winter. All this leaves a limited amount of time to get household duties and chores completed. I'm good at cooking and prefer doing the laundry. My husband is handy and enjoys fiddling with anything electronic. We recently got a new TV with PVR. I have little interest in figuring out how it works and haven't had the time to play with it. If I want to record a show, I ask him to do it for me. Sure, I should know how and do it myself, but I have homework with the kids, cooking and laundry to do.

I ask you, why wouldn't I ask him to do it for me, and why would he have a problem doing it?

quickWit
02-09-2009, 10:47 PM
I just hope I die first

After 30 years I'm sure he feels the same way.

*rimshot*

Thank you. You're too kind. :D

James81
02-09-2009, 10:49 PM
"If you loved me, you would have known what I was feeling and thinking." Whoa.

I've heard variations of that one myself.

My only answer is that you and her were obviously incompatible.

How funny would it be if she said, "If you loved me, you would have knonw what I was feeling and thinking."

And you replied, "You know what? You're right. Obviously we are incompatible and I don't think we should see each other anymore."

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 10:50 PM
I'd love to know why people who nag and play mind games do so. What do they get out of it? What do they EXPECT to get out of it?

nevada
02-09-2009, 10:52 PM
Here's an attempt to answer that. I work f/t. My husband works f/t. We have 2 kids, 9 & 11, both kids have nightly homework and are in two activities per week, plus we ski every Sunday all winter. All this leaves a limited amount of time to get household duties and chores completed. I'm good at cooking and prefer doing the laundry. My husband is handy and enjoys fiddling with anything electronic. We recently got a new TV with PVR. I have little interest in figuring out how it works and haven't had the time to play with it. If I want to record a show, I ask him to do it for me. Sure, I should know how and do it myself, but I have homework with the kids, cooking and laundry to do.

I ask you, why wouldn't I ask him to do it for me, and why would he have a problem doing it?

in your example i dont see a problem at all. it's about sharing and doing what you're good at. i'm talking about those women who refuse to do anythying, assume he has to do it all, and then nag him about it for weeks and weeks and all they are creating is stress. Seriously, why would you fight someone for weeks over something small that you can easily do yourself, just because of some entitlement issue you have and you think he has to do it and treat you like a princess. you in general, not you specifically.

CaroGirl
02-09-2009, 10:58 PM
in your example i dont see a problem at all. it's about sharing and doing what you're good at. i'm talking about those women who refuse to do anythying, assume he has to do it all, and then nag him about it for weeks and weeks and all they are creating is stress. Seriously, why would you fight someone for weeks over something small that you can easily do yourself, just because of some entitlement issue you have and you think he has to do it and treat you like a princess. you in general, not you specifically.
Actually, I know a woman like that and always feel sorry for the guy. I like him.

I understand your point.

Yeshanu
02-09-2009, 11:07 PM
nevada, I think that when we talk about "asking" someone to do something, we're differentiating it from "nagging."

I ask my sort-of-ex (we separated because I prefer women, not because we're incompatible in any other way, and he's still my best friend), to do things for me all the time. And he asks me to do things for him. But we only nag our kids.

Just kidding on that last, really. We ask our kids as well, and try not to nag.

Communication is really important. Not only do you need to learn to ask, but you also need to listen when the other person says, "No. I don't have time/energy/skills to do that for you."

Compromise and creative thinking are important, too. If he won't install that radiator, for example, maybe you could offer to help him. By helping him carry (it sounds heavy), or fetching his tools, things like that. Just like the shopping example, some things are easier when two people help each other, and some people just plain like company when they're working, as opposed to doing everything alone.

And I keep wondering how a nice guy like Ray keeps ending up with losers. Don't those women know what they've got??? :D

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 11:11 PM
Don't worry Ruth. He hasn't met me yet. His time will come. ;)

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 11:23 PM
I don't get people who can't fight. The most important part of a relationship is the ability to say things you can't ever take back, and then take them back. Today is my turn to be an ass and tomorrow is yours, that kind of stuff.
My all time favorite is "Were you looking at that woman?"
"Of course I was did you see her?"
"Yeah, nice rack."
"Exactly"

James81
02-09-2009, 11:25 PM
The most important part of a relationship is the ability to say things you can't ever take back, and then take them back.

Ha ha, I loved this.

semilargeintestine
02-09-2009, 11:26 PM
I don't get people who have a problem with their partner noticing or being attracted to other people. My girlfriend and I talk about ugly and attractive people all the time, either celebrity or just on the street. I don't see anything wrong with that, but some get so jealous by it. Odd, really.

CaroGirl
02-09-2009, 11:31 PM
I don't get people who have a problem with their partner noticing or being attracted to other people. My girlfriend and I talk about ugly and attractive people all the time, either celebrity or just on the street. I don't see anything wrong with that, but some get so jealous by it. Odd, really.
I think people who are jealous when their partners are attracted to other people are insecure in their relationship. Either that or they're controlling.

I don't get it either.

Sophia
02-09-2009, 11:32 PM
It seems disloyal to complain about your spouse to someone outside the marriage. Similar to emotional infidelity I guess.

Not only disloyal, but cruel - just the thought of doing something hurtful like that feels horrible.

I'm a bit on the other side from some of the women posting here, in that I do ask my hubby to do a lot of things for me, and am basically waited on hand and foot. The division of labour is hugely unbalanced in our relationship. I just asked him if he thought I was a nag, and he said no, and that he had "let me drift into a life of luxury" :D He asked what I'd do if he stopped doing things for me, and I said I'd just do them myself, and it's true. I never expect him to do anything for me, or demand it. We are best friends and get on great.

When I hear about people complaining about their other halves, I tend to think that they've reached a point where they're very unhappy but don't feel they can communicate it properly to the other person, so they just tell anyone who will listen as the nearest substitute in the hope of some help and resolution to the problems they have. I don't think it's something that women imagine themselves doing when they picture a relationship, or something they feel particularly happy about. Hopefully someone they tell will be able to give them some gentle suggestions that will help them turn things around.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 11:38 PM
I don't get people who have a problem with their partner noticing or being attracted to other people. My girlfriend and I talk about ugly and attractive people all the time, either celebrity or just on the street. I don't see anything wrong with that, but some get so jealous by it. Odd, really.


I think people who are jealous when their partners are attracted to other people are insecure in their relationship. Either that or they're controlling.

I don't get it either.

Yes; my attitude would be, "I'm married, not blind!"

As long as it doesn't go too far. But if someone attractive walks past, you're going to notice. You'd be lying if you said it didn't happen.

Seeing or even looking isn't the same as chasing after them and playing hide the sausage.

semilargeintestine
02-09-2009, 11:43 PM
Exactly. It's natural behavior that is rooted (no pun intended) in millions of years of evolution. Plus, just because you notice an attractive person doesn't mean you think your partner is any less attractive. Insecurity can be ugly.

KTC
02-09-2009, 11:57 PM
Maybe it's just me. I've been married twenty some years. We just do what has to be done to get our shit together on any given day. There are things that I do that my wife doesn't, and things that she does that I don't...but we overlap all the time. We work as a team to get shit done. We've gone through the kids in various activities on opposite ends of town thing. We've lived through hectic schedules that would kill others. We just do. Harping gets in the way of doing and neither of us enjoy translating thought. We both pick up things on the way home. We both cook supper. We both do housework. We both do laundry. We don't bitch at each other about it. What would be the point in that. If somebody harped on my to clean a toilet, they'd only find themselves headfirst in a dirty toilet. People CAN work together. It is possible.

KTC
02-09-2009, 11:58 PM
and i have 0 tolerance for jealousy. always have. as a teen i always just broke it off with girls who showed the slightest sign of jealousy. i dont need that shit, thank you very much.

scarletpeaches
02-09-2009, 11:59 PM
I wouldn't say I have zero tolerance. A little is good, otherwise you're borderline taking me for granted. Not full-on I AM A STALKER AND YOU MAY NOT GO ANYWHERE WITHOUT ME jealousy, but enough to keep the spark alive. "Other people find my wife attractive so I should up my game." ;)

Yeshanu
02-09-2009, 11:59 PM
Harping gets in the way of doing and neither of us enjoy translating thought.

Exactly.

KTC
02-10-2009, 12:05 AM
Well, Peaches...for me it's 0. Jealousy, in my opinion, is like an illness. I speak like this because I experienced it once upon a time in full bloom. I decided that full bloom or a tiny bit are equally ugly. I will not tolerate jealousy. I can't even fathom how that translates to taking advantage of someone, but to each his own.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 12:07 AM
Well, it's like not paying someone any attention. Maybe jealousy gives the impression of something bad. But what I mean is if I was with a man and he didn't give a damn where I was or who I was with, he didn't care about me. It's just about giving your love attention, and caring about what they're up to. That level of jealousy. Not laying down the law. Just caring.

thethinker42
02-10-2009, 12:10 AM
I'd never complain. I'd just go to a tittie bar.

My husband and I go together. Maybe that's why our marriage rocks...

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Jealous scares me. I was stalked by a girl once, and we weren't even together. She left creepy messages on my mobile from outside my house. I called the police on her once, and they tore apart her car.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 12:11 AM
See that's above and beyond what I'm talking about. Perhaps I need a word lower down the scale than jealousy.

Appropriate attention. You know what I mean. Giving a frickin' damn about your lover!

Ol' Fashioned Girl
02-10-2009, 12:13 AM
I got nuthin'. Me and Ol' Boy are still havin' a blast after 30 years.

CaroGirl
02-10-2009, 12:15 AM
See that's above and beyond what I'm talking about. Perhaps I need a word lower down the scale than jealousy.

Appropriate attention. You know what I mean. Giving a frickin' damn about your lover!
I know what you're getting at. Just showing that you care when someone else pays attention to your SO. I often thought I'd like my husband to be a little jealous, but he's never been. It's kind of like he just knows I'd never stray. He's right but, well, I mean, I could, right? I'm pretty hot stuff, right?

KTC
02-10-2009, 12:18 AM
Yes, I give a damn about my wife and only her. She knows this and is secure in that knowledge. I have dozens of female friends. I am often on committees for writing related stuff where I am the only guy.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 12:19 AM
I was jealous when I started with my current girlfriend. Two of my previous girlfriends shagged around on me a few times, so she had to deal with my trust issues. It actually helped when she'd tell me about guys hitting on her and how she responded, because it made me realise that she wasn't going to do anything.

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 12:21 AM
Jealous scares me. I was stalked by a girl once, and we weren't even together. She left creepy messages on my mobile from outside my house. I called the police on her once, and they tore apart her car.


Why the car?

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 12:21 AM
Maybe he meant cat?

James81
02-10-2009, 12:23 AM
Maybe he mean "par"?

Writer2011
02-10-2009, 12:23 AM
I've overheard other women complain about their boyfriends/husbands and it drives me absolutely insane. If there's a problem, then why are they with them? Just my thoughts. I'm married and always help my wife when it comes to certain things...We go grocery shopping together and I do things around the house. Yet at the same time, I think it's okay to rest after coming home from a long day at work or play computer games for a while. Honestly I don't see anything wrong with it. Hope this helps!!!

thethinker42
02-10-2009, 12:26 AM
Joining the thread late since scarlet was inconsiderate enough to post it while I was out...


Back to the communication issue: yes, when one person expects the other person to "read minds" it's a HUGE problem with me. I'm sorry, if I'm psychic I'd go on Oprah. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this: "If you loved me, you would have known what I was feeling and thinking." Whoa.


My only answer is that you and her were obviously incompatible.

How funny would it be if she said, "If you loved me, you would have knonw what I was feeling and thinking."

And you replied, "You know what? You're right. Obviously we are incompatible and I don't think we should see each other anymore."

This is something I have no patience with. I am not a mind reader. End of story. My husband has been known to play the passive aggressive "I'm fine" game when I ask if he's upset, etc. I told him after the first couple of times, "I'm not going to play that game. If I ask if you're okay, and you say you're fine, I'm going to assume that you're fine and move on with a clear conscience." It's not such a problem anymore, but it annoys the hell out of me.


I don't get people who can't fight. The most important part of a relationship is the ability to say things you can't ever take back, and then take them back. Today is my turn to be an ass and tomorrow is yours, that kind of stuff.

Amen to that. A good solid relationship means being able to fight and know that when it's resolved, you'll still be okay.


My all time favorite is "Were you looking at that woman?"
"Of course I was did you see her?"
"Yeah, nice rack."
"Exactly"

Hahaha. For us, it's "Dude, check out that chick's rack!" And that can come from either him OR me. He knows full well that I check out both genders, and I know he checks women out. I can't stand when people get bent out of shape because their other half has the audacity to notice another physically attractive person.


I don't get people who have a problem with their partner noticing or being attracted to other people. My girlfriend and I talk about ugly and attractive people all the time, either celebrity or just on the street. I don't see anything wrong with that, but some get so jealous by it. Odd, really.

Amen to that. I know a guy who once LOOKED in a girl's direction...wasn't checking her out, he just turned his head...and his girlfriend FREAKED. She was stunned when about five minutes later, she wasn't his girlfriend anymore.


and i have 0 tolerance for jealousy. always have. as a teen i always just broke it off with girls who showed the slightest sign of jealousy. i dont need that shit, thank you very much.

Amen to that, too. I don't do well with jealousy. I say that if my husband trusted me enough to marry me, then he can trust me enough to look at other men/women, and he can trust me to hang out with men without him. I am still very close to several of my ex-boyfriends, and we'd have a serious problem if my husband told me I couldn't see/talk to/hang out with them. In fact, when I return to Japan later this week, I'll be on the same flight as one of my exes. My husband's reaction? "Cool! You'll have someone to talk to."

All in all, I think people put too much pressure on their own significant others. They expect telepathy, they expect them to stop noticing members of the opposite sex, they expect to say "jump" and have their SO say "how high?" Life doesn't work that way. I don't make any requests of my husband that would piss ME off if the tables were turned, I don't expect him to ONLY look at me, and I certainly don't expect him to be Mr. Perfect. I'm anything but perfect, so that would be just MILDLY hypocritical.

But he damn well better hang pictures straight or let me hang them myself. (Occupational hazard when you marry a woman who's OCD...)

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 12:29 AM
Why the car?

Cause I told them I thought they were hittin' the weed. :D

Clair Dickson
02-10-2009, 12:56 AM
I tell my husband he can look at any one he wants... but any part of him that touches another woman, I cut off. :D

Not that he even would. He felt bad one day when a female coworker hugged him... he came home and told me and needed to know I was okay with it (or maybe wanted to make sure he wasn't going to start losing limbs ;-)

James81
02-10-2009, 12:57 AM
I tell my husband he can look at any one he wants... but any part of him that touches another woman, I cut off. :D

Not that he even would. He felt bad one day when a female coworker hugged him... he came home and told me and needed to know I was okay with it (or maybe wanted to make sure he wasn't going to start losing limbs ;-)

You shoulda been like "Nope, sorry. Off with the torso!"

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 12:58 AM
When I was working full time at my last job, my co-workers and I used to smack each others' arses all the time. My girlfriend never had a problem with it.

Mr Flibble
02-10-2009, 01:04 AM
I actually don't understand women asking their men to do stuff for them. Okay, yes i'm single and have been my whole life and probably will be forever and ever (*sigh* lol) but seriously, what am i gonna ask him to do that i can't do myself. Sharing chores is one thing but this "helpless woman" routine that i hear some women do, while pootling lol, drives me bonkers. light burned out? move your ass, grab a chair and do it if it bothers you that much. especially when all you get from nagging him is a fight and hurt feelings and sulking. Why is it automatically his job to fix stuff like that? It doesn't even occur to me to ask for help.



It isn't automatically his job. It's just he's taller than I am and doesn't have to balance precariously on a chair to reach the top cupboards in the kitchen / lightbulb / whatever. He's also a damn sight stronger than me, and rather than give myself a hernia lifting something, I get him to do it and he manages with one hand.

I do what I'm good at - he does what he's good at. Simple. Plus we both work, so things have to be shared.

As for the looking - he can peruse the menu, as long as he doesn't order anything. And so can I.

KTC
02-10-2009, 01:38 AM
Maybe he meant cat?


Can I watch?

sassandgroove
02-10-2009, 02:35 AM
I try to be a good wife and ask and show appreciation when he helps and I keep in mind he sticks with a job he doesn't like for health insurance etc so we are provided for, even though we both work full time, he makes more. He does things I don't think of like remembering oil changes too. so when I'm feeling resentful that he doesn't clean the bathroom i remember that he does take the trash unasked and does the dishes everyday and makes sure my tires are inflated properly. he's a great guy and I love him.

SusanH
02-10-2009, 03:41 AM
I love men. I just don't want to live with them. Maybe it is because of a horrible marriage with a very untypical man. While the other husbands were watching sports on tv, he was sleeping with their wives.

I definitely agree with what has been said here about hard working guys, but if the woman works equally hard they should share chores.

I am having a problem with the guy I am dating. I have known him for 10 years. He left his wife about three years ago. We started dating last year. I don't want to get married and I like having a casual relationship. He wants to be serious. Last month he called me from his boat (he works off shore) and told me to run an errand for him.....told me? I said no. Now when he comes home, he wants to stay with me all the time and now he has started farting in front of me, like we have been married for 20 years. I am old and set in my ways. He is 15 years younger than me and I am thinking this is really making a big difference...... sometimes he acts like a teenager...sigh.....ok, venting done.

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 03:44 AM
When I was working full time at my last job, my co-workers and I used to smack each others' arses all the time. My girlfriend never had a problem with it.

Are they hiring?

SusanH
02-10-2009, 03:59 AM
I spewed my tea out my nose laughing..... http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/Emerita/Smilies/oregonian_teehee.gif

tjwriter
02-10-2009, 05:29 AM
My cousin was engaged to one chick that was so insecure she went off the chain if he was watching a music video that featured chicks with boobs (She was flat.). It was the most insane thing I'd ever seen. Then she'd try to have these conversations about her nutso behavior like this was just the most normal thing, and I'd feel so uncomfortable.

I complain about my man occasionally. It's mostly something like, "I wish I could give him an NCIS headslap because he's getting on my nerves today." I'm sure he feels the same way sometimes. We've been together for 12 years and it has ups and downs, good times and bad. But we get along pretty well considering we are both firecracker personalities.

The women that nag nonstop are annoying and need to look at their own issues.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 05:55 AM
Are they hiring?

All the hotties are gone. Sorry. :(

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 06:30 AM
All the hotties are gone. Sorry. :(

Shame. They outsourced all the arse slapping jobs around here, unemployment is up, and no one cares.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 06:51 AM
Damn shame.

Beach Bunny
02-10-2009, 07:19 AM
I don't get people who have a problem with their partner noticing or being attracted to other people. My girlfriend and I talk about ugly and attractive people all the time, either celebrity or just on the street. I don't see anything wrong with that, but some get so jealous by it. Odd, really.


Exactly. It's natural behavior that is rooted (no pun intended) in millions of years of evolution. Plus, just because you notice an attractive person doesn't mean you think your partner is any less attractive. Insecurity can be ugly.

Mostly the ones who get jealous have security issues as already mentioned.

However, how the noticing is done is also a factor. If it's just noticing, then that's fine. But, if it's accompanied by "Why don't YOU wear something like that?" said in a snotty tone of voice or something like that, then the partner who is noticing is being disrespectful to the other. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of disrespectful behavior, I can tell you it's not a whole lot of fun. I don't mind a man noticing other women, even flirting with other women, but don't deliberately try to make me feel like shit when you do it. (Yes, this one of the reasons I kicked my ex to the curb.)

Noticing is fine. Deliberately making comments about someone else which you know will make your partner feel undesirable is not. My two cents.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 07:37 AM
Yeah, well that's just responding to a rude comment. If my girlfriend asked my why I didn't do something that another bloke was, and it wasn't obvious that she was joking, I'd be pissed too.

ErylRavenwell
02-10-2009, 08:20 AM
Pootling? Must be a Scottish thing.

nevada
02-10-2009, 08:38 AM
*sigh* Now I wish I had a man to complain about. :(

Lyra Jean
02-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Mostly the ones who get jealous have security issues as already mentioned.

However, how the noticing is done is also a factor. If it's just noticing, then that's fine. But, if it's accompanied by "Why don't YOU wear something like that?" said in a snotty tone of voice or something like that, then the partner who is noticing is being disrespectful to the other. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of disrespectful behavior, I can tell you it's not a whole lot of fun. I don't mind a man noticing other women, even flirting with other women, but don't deliberately try to make me feel like shit when you do it. (Yes, this one of the reasons I kicked my ex to the curb.)

Noticing is fine. Deliberately making comments about someone else which you know will make your partner feel undesirable is not. My two cents.

I had an ex and at the time we were attending a very conservative church. I would ask him about my clothing because I've always gone to a very laid back church. Is this conservative enough? The skirt is a little above my knee is that all right? He'd tell me it was fine and I'd buy it. Then later he would tell me how inappropriate it was. It was very frustrating and just one of the many many many reasons we broke up. We're friends now we just couldn't date apparently.

Note: I was only asking him about clothes to wear to church and church functions. Not every article of clothing I wear.

My man now is super awesome. We love each other so much it makes other people sick.

Darzian
02-10-2009, 09:45 AM
What a thrilling thread.

*takes out notebook and starts scribbling*

ErylRavenwell
02-10-2009, 09:53 AM
I had an ex and at the time we were attending a very conservative church. I would ask him about my clothing because I've always gone to a very laid back church. Is this conservative enough? The skirt is a little above my knee is that all right? He'd tell me it was fine and I'd buy it. Then later he would tell me how inappropriate it was. It was very frustrating and just one of the many many many reasons we broke up. We're friends now we just couldn't date apparently.



That should have been the cue for a double-barreled salute (or showing him the middle fingers, if you prefer).

BenPanced
02-10-2009, 10:58 AM
"I hate it when Artie leaves the seat up."
"Tell him."
"I hate it when Melvin blows his nose on a paper towel but leaves it on the roll."
"Tell him."
"I hate it when Joey brings up our laundry and shows my bras to his parents."
"Tell him."
"WHAT SHOULD WE DO?!"
"Tell me something..."

(A tip o' the pixel to Bill Amend.)

Zoombie
02-10-2009, 11:14 AM
Reading this thread makes me worried about my relationship.

Its my first...but...

I like it. But what if its actually no good? If it is no good, should I end it? How can I tell its no good? Can a sex crazed bisexual man jive with a girl who thinks that you shouldn't have sex before marriage? Is she worried about me being bisexual? Can I communicate my beliefs on sex without putting her on the defensive? Can I figure out something to do for Valentines day? Should I tell her that I love her on Valentines day? Do I actually love her? Does she love me? Should I even have to ask? Do I ask too many questions?

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 01:39 PM
Zoombie. Sweetheart. Put all that sex-energy into writing a werewolf love story.

With zombies.

Samantha's_Song
02-10-2009, 02:48 PM
I wouldn't have laughed, my husband is my best friend, but I do still nag at him, well snap his head off sometimes... it's all for his own good though :D No one's perfect, I know I'm not, and we do change as we get older. I presume everyone does, I know I have since I've gotten older. I want different things out of my life now to what I did 18 years ago, when I got together with my husband. I didn't plan for these changes, they just happened--I have big ideas, big dreams, and am always thinking about the future, whereas my husband is just content to let life drift along with no change whatsoever; he has no dreams, no passion, he doesn't look outside of the box. I find that all stifling, but I have enough dreams and plans for the both of us anyway.

Btw, my husband nags too, usually about other drivers and people in the way when he's shopping, he's a typical Victor Meldrew and I am always shouting at him to shut the fuck up! :D That's okay, we can swear at each other and think nothing of it afterwards; we're both sagittarians and both very impatient people.


Glad to know I'm not entirely alone in this. I thought I was terribly old-fashioned in my views on certain things; I even had a bunch of friends burst out laughing at me once because I said something like "I'd want to marry a man who was my best friend."

Samantha's_Song
02-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Oh, but we do spend more time laughing together, than what we do nagging at one another :)

Samantha's_Song
02-10-2009, 03:05 PM
Agreed. My husband doesn't get jealous when I watch the man of my dreams on the TV, or the fact that I have pictures of him stuck all over the walls of the house. He did call me mental once, when he caught me kissing one of the pictures though :D He likes Demi Moore and Elvira, mistress of the dark, and I don't worry if he wants to ogle them. I just think it's strange that they're both dark-haired and I'm bright blonde? lol.

Oh, and we have great bitching sessions about other women; actresses or women we see in the street, especially the old muttons dressed as lamb. My husband makes a much better bitch than I could ever be too! :D


I don't get people who have a problem with their partner noticing or being attracted to other people. My girlfriend and I talk about ugly and attractive people all the time, either celebrity or just on the street. I don't see anything wrong with that, but some get so jealous by it. Odd, really.

Zoombie
02-10-2009, 03:07 PM
Zoombie. Sweetheart. Put all that sex-energy into writing a werewolf love story.

With zombies.

But I wannit!

<whines about sex some more>

NeuroFizz
02-10-2009, 05:19 PM
Celebrate with that opposable thumb. (Would that make you trisexual?)

StoryG27
02-10-2009, 05:42 PM
Celebrate with that opposable thumb. (Would that make you trisexual?)
:roll:

Okay, onto thread topic.

Where I used to work, it was mainly women, women who would sit and complain about the stupid stuff their hubs and boyfriends did. There was one other woman there I got along smashingly with, and she and I were the only ones who didn't jump on the man-bashing wagon. When we were once asked why, I replied, "Here's a shocker, I love and adore my husband."

Does he do stupid stuff sometimes, sure, he's human. I do many more stupid and annoying things, yet he never bashes me or complains about me to his buddies. Why would I do that to him? My problem is I tend to brag on him a bit, and I actually have to watch that. But when the women would complain, my only response was usually, this sounds like something you need to talk to him about, not me.

I tend to find men very entertaining and fun anyway, and I think women are honestly worse at communication than men. Many of the ones who I found complaining, expected their husband to "just know" why they were upset. I heard a lot of "if he doesn't know why I'm upset, then I'm not gonna tell him." Huh? What kind of sense does that make? Men are a lot of things, my mind reader usually isn't one of them.

Grrarrgh
02-10-2009, 06:21 PM
What do you want? A medal? And why should your man do anything if you already do it all? He probably thinks you get off on being a martyr, then boasting about how hardworking you are with the girls back at the library.
/rant off.

QFT.

The single most relevant piece of advice I got before moving in with my now-husband came from the mother of my best friend. She told me to think very carefully before I do anything at all for the first couple of weeks, because I'd be setting a tone. She said that anything I do for him in the beginning, I will still be doing for him 50 years from now, and she was 100% right.

I'll stick with the working man, cleaning woman theme since that's what the OP was about, but it definitely goes the other way, too.

If a woman moves in with a man, gets married, whatever, and is immediately doing all of the cleaning, all of the cooking, the laundry, the shopping, the car washing, etc, that's the way it will stay. Her husband, boyfriend, whatever, isn't going to suddenly wake up one day and insist she sit down so he can take care of it all from now on. She can't play the martyr if she set the relationship up the way that it is.

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Reading this thread makes me worried about my relationship.

Its my first...but...

I like it. But what if its actually no good? If it is no good, should I end it? How can I tell its no good? Can a sex crazed bisexual man jive with a girl who thinks that you shouldn't have sex before marriage? Is she worried about me being bisexual? Can I communicate my beliefs on sex without putting her on the defensive? Can I figure out something to do for Valentines day? Should I tell her that I love her on Valentines day? Do I actually love her? Does she love me? Should I even have to ask? Do I ask too many questions?

It's good that you question these things, but don't overthink it. "Do I love her?" is the only one that matters. That's the one you better get right.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 06:23 PM
I always thought if you have to ask, you don't.

But then, I look at things in a very pragmatic way. I let my head rule my heart.

StevenJ
02-10-2009, 06:28 PM
I always let my heart rule my head. This is why I'm never disappointed in love; despite the fact that I'm single and my best female friend is a cat named Ruby Tuesday. :D :D

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 06:32 PM
I wonder if a mod could change the thread title to "I love men except for men who love sheep"?

StoryG27
02-10-2009, 06:34 PM
If a woman moves in with a man, gets married, whatever, and is immediately doing all of the cleaning, all of the cooking, the laundry, the shopping, the car washing, etc, that's the way it will stay. Her husband, boyfriend, whatever, isn't going to suddenly wake up one day and insist she sit down so he can take care of it all from now on. She can't play the martyr if she set the relationship up the way that it is.
I agree and disagree with this. I think you shouldn't put up a false front, pretend you're the happy homemaker type if you're not, pretend you love to cook if you hate it, and so on, and don't do things you plan on stopping just as soon as you feel it's safe. And don't set yourself up to be a martyr, if you need help, ask for it, it seems so obvious, but I know women how complain about all their hubs don't do, but won't relinquish any control to let their hubs help, and if the poor men do try to help, they're met with nothing but criticism. DON'T do that. That I agree with. But here's the thing, time passes, and your likes and dislikes may change. I actually enjoy cooking much more now than I used to for one. And there's that time in the beginning, where you're both trying to figure out your role in this twosome. You may think you can handle more than you actually can, and only time and experience will tell you, so you may start out taking care of everything, and then require more help later. I think most men and women are understanding of that. Plus, the relationship changes, like having kids for one, you have a whole new list of responsibilities, and things will constantly shift until it becomes routine. Then, in my case, I've had some recent health issues, and I know when Hubby comes home, he won't mind doing more than he used to, he won't mind taking a night to cook dinner, or doing a load or two of laundry, or taking the kids to soccer practice, things like that. Responsibilities and contributions to the relationship should evolve with the people in it, so I don't think just because one person does the dishes in the beginning, they are expected to do them the rest of their lives.

StevenJ
02-10-2009, 06:45 PM
I wonder if a mod could change the thread title to "I love men except for men who love sheep"?


Sticks and stones, mein Fuhrer, sticks and stones...

You'll regret your jibes when I'm on the front page of the dailies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/lslneon/ABF.png

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 07:02 PM
I wonder if a mod could change the thread title to "I love men except for men who love sheep"?

Where was it that they described as "Where the men are men, and the sheep are nervous"

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 07:02 PM
In our defense, some sheep have real pretty legs.

quickWit
02-10-2009, 07:05 PM
In our defense, some sheep have real pretty legs.

*calls security*

StevenJ
02-10-2009, 07:13 PM
Good work, Wayne - you and I should set up a forum titled 'Absolute Wool'. :D

Grrarrgh
02-10-2009, 07:22 PM
I agree and disagree with this. I think you shouldn't put up a false front, pretend you're the happy homemaker type if you're not, pretend you love to cook if you hate it, and so on, and don't do things you plan on stopping just as soon as you feel it's safe. And don't set yourself up to be a martyr, if you need help, ask for it, it seems so obvious, but I know women how complain about all their hubs don't do, but won't relinquish any control to let their hubs help, and if the poor men do try to help, they're met with nothing but criticism. DON'T do that. That I agree with. But here's the thing, time passes, and your likes and dislikes may change. I actually enjoy cooking much more now than I used to for one. And there's that time in the beginning, where you're both trying to figure out your role in this twosome. You may think you can handle more than you actually can, and only time and experience will tell you, so you may start out taking care of everything, and then require more help later. I think most men and women are understanding of that. Plus, the relationship changes, like having kids for one, you have a whole new list of responsibilities, and things will constantly shift until it becomes routine. Then, in my case, I've had some recent health issues, and I know when Hubby comes home, he won't mind doing more than he used to, he won't mind taking a night to cook dinner, or doing a load or two of laundry, or taking the kids to soccer practice, things like that. Responsibilities and contributions to the relationship should evolve with the people in it, so I don't think just because one person does the dishes in the beginning, they are expected to do them the rest of their lives.

I see what you're saying, and I agree with you. There are always things that will come up that will alter the way the chores are set up. I don't think my friend's mom was talking about specifics, even though she phrased it that way. But I do think that if you go into a living situation like that and you set the expectation that you will martyr yourself and do and take care of everything, then it's set.

As an example, I have a friend who, even when she's so sick she can barely stand up, insists on doing all the cleaning, cooking, and childcare. Her husband doesn't help her at all when she's sick any more than he does on a day when she's not sick. He doesn't even offer. (Ironically, it's the same friend who's mother gave me the advice I mentioned.) She's set it up so that he just expects it, so now when the situation arises, he doesn't even make a phony gesture of help, just sits back and lets her do everything.

I think, and I could be wrong, he could be an even bigger d-bag than I already think he is, but I think that if the first time she got sick, she had told him that he'd have to make his own dinner and wash his own dishes until she felt better, she would have set a completely different set of expectations than she has now.

Libbie
02-10-2009, 07:24 PM
I'm with you, Scarlet. My husband works his ass off to support my less-financially-successful pursuits. When he wants to just sleep all day or play his Atari, he gets to do that. I go amuse myself. It's the least I can do to thank him for all the work he does for me.

At least we have a bargain: When I make it big as a writer, he gets to quit his high-paying job and go become a field biology researcher while *I* bring home the bacon. ;)

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 07:25 PM
My mother used to do that all the time. She'd whine about cleaning until it got to the point where I said, "You know what? If you're so damn perfect, YOU do it all."

I kept to my room, which, ironically, was the tidiest room in the house for as long as I lived there.

And she used to follow my dad into the kitchen and tell him he'd spilled sugar, or dropped something onto the floor and not in a helpful tone of voice, either. Like she was talking to a child. A really, really backward child.

Both of us are a lot better off without her now.

StevenJ
02-10-2009, 07:41 PM
I wonder if a mod could change the thread title to "I love men except for men who love sheep"?

Why don't you just change it to: 'I'm Scarypeaches and I have to persecute Steve Whateverhisnameisthisweek!', oh wicked witch of the west? :D:D:D

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 07:47 PM
You should feel honoured you're my chosen maroon this month.

StevenJ
02-10-2009, 07:51 PM
Indeed I do. :D

For once, I have no wish to derail a thread, so I'll just say this:
In my experience, women are rubbish, but men are even rubbishier.

There you have it, folks, homespun philosophy from a sheep shearer.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 07:53 PM
To be honest I prefer the company of men for precisely the reasons set out in the OP. Men tend to tell you upfront if there's a problem (at least the men I know). Women bitch behind your back.

StevenJ
02-10-2009, 07:58 PM
Oh Gawd, SP, men are so one-dimensional and humourless...
Yep, that's a sweeping generalisation, but I stand by it as does my flock.

Samantha's_Song
02-10-2009, 08:13 PM
LOL This woman doesn't. I say what I have to say about my hubby, to my hubby, and to my sister, but he's always there with us, laughing at me on about him. My hubby love to wind me up, he knows I hate it, that's why he does it, he loves the reaction, he knows I'll always bite. I never wind people up and don't like having it done to me... he's such a sneaky little bastard :D


To be honest I prefer the company of men for precisely the reasons set out in the OP. Men tend to tell you upfront if there's a problem (at least the men I know). Women bitch behind your back.

James81
02-10-2009, 08:16 PM
LOL This woman doesn't. I say what I have to say about my hubby, to my hubby, and to my sister, but he's always there with us, laughing at me on about him. My hubby love to wind me up, he knows I hate it, that's why he does it, he loves the reaction, he knows I'll always bite. I never wind people up and don't like having it done to me... he's such a sneaky little bastard :D

Of course. It's standard message board rules that none of the bitching we do on message boards applies to any of us. We're all the exceptions to the rule.

Samantha's_Song
02-10-2009, 08:21 PM
Not at all, anyone who knows me, knows I don't tell lies either, I'd rather tell the truth, and that gets me into even more trouble :D In fact, every time I write about my hubby on the net, I show him what I've written, and he just laughs, because he loves me, so there :tongue


Of course. It's standard message board rules that none of the bitching we do on message boards applies to any of us. We're all the exceptions to the rule.

James81
02-10-2009, 08:30 PM
I know what you mean. I can't tell you how many times that people have been around me and have wanted to just nail me up to a cross. I have to continously remind people that I am NOT Jesus.

Samantha's_Song
02-10-2009, 08:34 PM
Methinks you're a wind-up merchant, just like Chris, that's my husband btw :D


I know what you mean. I can't tell you how many times that people have been around me and have wanted to just nail me up to a cross. I have to continously remind people that I am NOT Jesus.

Mr Flibble
02-10-2009, 08:45 PM
To be honest I prefer the company of men for precisely the reasons set out in the OP. Men tend to tell you upfront if there's a problem (at least the men I know). Women bitch behind your back.


All my close friends are male. Every one. I just don't seem to have much in common with most women ( apart from drooling over men, but hey I've got a bisexual mate I can do that with :D).

James81
02-10-2009, 09:02 PM
All my close friends are male. Every one. I just don't seem to have much in common with most women ( apart from drooling over men, but hey I've got a bisexual mate I can do that with :D).

A lot of women are like this.

Wish I had a dollar for every girl that I've heard say this.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 10:08 PM
I know what you mean. I can't tell you how many times that people have been around me and have wanted to just nail me up to a cross. I have to continously remind people that I am NOT Jesus.

I have that same problem. People seem to shout "Jesus Christ!" a lot when they're around me. I'm Jewish and everything, but I'm not the messiah.

Zoombie
02-10-2009, 10:34 PM
And then, all my worries vanished and all it took was a few minuets talking to her while we both weren't busy or angsting about something or distracted or something.

I'm in love i'm in love i'm in love!

<dances around>

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 10:38 PM
I have that same problem. People seem to shout "Jesus Christ!" a lot when they're around me. I'm Jewish and everything, but I'm not the messiah.

You're a very naughty boy!

sassandgroove
02-10-2009, 10:46 PM
And then, all my worries vanished and all it took was a few minuets talking to her while we both weren't busy or angsting about something or distracted or something.

I'm in love i'm in love i'm in love!

<dances around>
That's great!

Zoombie
02-10-2009, 10:47 PM
Unless I'm not.

Then I'll be sad.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 10:48 PM
You can be in love with me if you like. I don't mind.

Zoombie
02-10-2009, 10:52 PM
I'm in E-love with like...4 people on the internet.

I give my internet love freely.

<Is an internet whore>

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 11:01 PM
Four? You're an e-prude.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 11:04 PM
If you're Australian, you're in my e-harem.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 11:07 PM
Can we call it a seraglio? It sounds more mythic.

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 11:08 PM
Whatever. I usually just call it a target list.

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 11:10 PM
If you're Australian, you're in my e-harem.

That's it, I'm moving down under. Can I get there by bus?

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 11:11 PM
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/drmg01/2504160790_7b470933d8.jpg

NeuroFizz
02-10-2009, 11:11 PM
concubinubial thoughts
of outlined eyes and
and the men of faraway
lands leave Scarlet
pootling from the corner
of her mouth
and from the corner of
her street, wanting
to Shannonize a
he-of-such-luck

Mr Flibble
02-10-2009, 11:11 PM
If you're Australian, you're in my e-harem.


In that case, I claim allll Kiwis!

Which means I get Karl Urban. You can have ol' Huge.

Zoombie
02-10-2009, 11:12 PM
NO! I WANT THE KIWIS!

Mr Flibble
02-10-2009, 11:16 PM
NO! I WANT THE KIWIS!


BUGGER OFF!

Mine, allllll mine!

Well, you can have the chicks. But the men are MINE!

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 11:18 PM
In that case, I claim allll Kiwis!

Which means I get Karl Urban. You can have ol' Huge.

I KNEW I recognised him.

Those bad, bad wings...Oh Karl, what possessed you? :ROFL:

Mr Flibble
02-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Those bad, bad wings...Oh Karl, what possessed you? :ROFL:

Payday probably :D

There's a few pretty crappy films he's in where the main point of interest is the fact he runs round half naked / spends long time in the bath.

The bath scenes get freeze framed a lot. One day I may find the rubber duck. ;)

scarletpeaches
02-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Second only to that icky bleach job. Like that time I tried doing my own roots with dye bought from Asda. Never again...

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 11:27 PM
My sis did that and had green hair for a month.

sassandgroove
02-11-2009, 01:14 AM
so what's this pootling I've heard so much about?

scarletpeaches
02-11-2009, 01:16 AM
Okay, serious answer. Pootling means wandering almost aimlessly, just...looking around, seeing what you can see. Or walking slowly.

I can pootle to the shops. I can also pootle around them, while there.

quickWit
02-11-2009, 01:17 AM
Okay, serious answer. Pootling means wandering almost aimlessly, just...looking around, seeing what you can see. Or walking slowly.

I can pootle to the shops. I can also pootle around them, while there.

And if you happen to be in Labrador at the time, you can Labrapootle.

*rimshot*

Thank you. Spay and neuter your pets. :D

Mr Flibble
02-11-2009, 01:22 AM
Okay, serious answer. Pootling means wandering almost aimlessly, just...looking around, seeing what you can see. Or walking slowly.

I can pootle to the shops. I can also pootle around them, while there.

Or you can name a Flump :D

scarletpeaches
02-11-2009, 01:23 AM
You remembered! :D

Uh, thanks, by the way. I now have "Pa pa, pa pa, pa ra pa PAH!" in my head.

ETA: AND NOW EVERYONE ELSE WILL TOO, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1mMQtk3IUE

(Pootle is the first one to pop up, in the bobble hat).

Samantha's_Song
02-11-2009, 03:24 AM
That reminds me, I got an e-muff on here once :D


That's it, I'm moving down under. Can I get there by bus?

WittyWordsmith
02-11-2009, 03:34 AM
Well, I'm eternally late to this thread, but I thought I'd jump in any-who.

I got married young (just before my 20th birthday, actually.) But, I married my best friend. As in, for the first time in my life I dated someone who was my friend before he was a potential mate, and that's what changed everything. There was no dating/wooing stage where we weren't real because we had already known each other and liked each other for who we actually were.

We've been together over 7 years now, married 5.5, and I know how spoiled I am. He is not perfect by a long shot, but any time I start to dwell on what ain't so great about him, I have learned to point the finger right back at myself, and I apologize. He puts up with A LOT of flack from me at times (usually due to the Low-Blood-Sugar-Monster I become when not fed...) so I have learned to be forgiving.

The thing that helped us most was learning how the other person fought or argued. Once we worked that out, we knew how to communicate so that we only fight rarely. Now, bickering? That's different. We bicker a lot, but we both know that as long as we're bickering, we're not really fighting. In fact, I read something a while back that said it's healthy for couples to bicker because it means they know they can be honest about being unhappy without it escalating into a relationship-altering fight. So yeah, we bicker.

It really is about the communication. And I find my self keeping my mouth shut an awful lot around girls or friends that just bitch about their men. Unfortunately, when I do pipe in, I'm somehow made to feel like the one with the problem simply because I DON'T have something to complain about. When did THAT become okay?

It's good to read that there are people out there who are willing to put effort into communicating. Nags and martyrs drive me nutso, and it's great to see that there are others out there like myself.

Samantha's_Song
02-11-2009, 03:40 AM
I can honestly say, in my 18 years of being with my husband, we may bicker like a couple of kids a lot of the time, but we have never had a proper argument.

WittyWordsmith
02-11-2009, 03:52 AM
I think bickering diffuses the situation. In SEVEN years, we've had one single argument that lasted more than an hour or so (and it's a real rarity that we raise our voices otherwise...) It was over something stupid I'd never bother to argue about now, but you're stubborn about stupid things when the relationship is still forming.

If I can express that I'm not too peachy and he can give it back that he isn't either, then it's out and said and you can move on before it becomes something else. We have friends that bicker very rarely because they FIGHT so bad so often, EVERYTHING is an argument and people get hurt... it drives me bonkers because my husband and I are always caught in the crossfire.

One thing I requested early on was that we agree to never put the other down for the sake of someone else. In other words, I wouldn't jump in and complain about him just to make my friend feel comfortable about her bad relationship. We just stay quiet and try to offer a positive viewpoint (which is usually shat on by the complaining party, but whatever.)

Lyra Jean
02-11-2009, 09:09 AM
I see what you're saying, and I agree with you. There are always things that will come up that will alter the way the chores are set up. I don't think my friend's mom was talking about specifics, even though she phrased it that way. But I do think that if you go into a living situation like that and you set the expectation that you will martyr yourself and do and take care of everything, then it's set.

As an example, I have a friend who, even when she's so sick she can barely stand up, insists on doing all the cleaning, cooking, and childcare. Her husband doesn't help her at all when she's sick any more than he does on a day when she's not sick. He doesn't even offer. (Ironically, it's the same friend who's mother gave me the advice I mentioned.) She's set it up so that he just expects it, so now when the situation arises, he doesn't even make a phony gesture of help, just sits back and lets her do everything.

I think, and I could be wrong, he could be an even bigger d-bag than I already think he is, but I think that if the first time she got sick, she had told him that he'd have to make his own dinner and wash his own dishes until she felt better, she would have set a completely different set of expectations than she has now.

I'm a horrible a housecleaner. I hate cleaning with a passion. So the second time my fiance came up to see me (he was still my boyfriend) I purposely didn't clean my room. yeah I'm still living at home. I figured if he saw how messy I was and was still wanting to hang around he would be a keeper. And he is. I'm trying to get better though and when he comes to see me I make sure everything is in order. But he knows I suck at cleaning.

sassandgroove
02-11-2009, 07:53 PM
When we got married, I tried to be little Susie HOme Maker, and would get really uptight and upset when things didn't go right and Mr. Groove said, "If I wanted to marry Susie Home Maker, I would have. I didn't. I married you and I love you just as you are." (Ok so I may have paraphrased a little,b ut he did say that.)

Lyra Jean
02-11-2009, 08:29 PM
One thing I requested early on was that we agree to never put the other down for the sake of someone else. In other words, I wouldn't jump in and complain about him just to make my friend feel comfortable about her bad relationship. We just stay quiet and try to offer a positive viewpoint (which is usually shat on by the complaining party, but whatever.)

I have two close galpals and we do this. Where we go something like I'm having a problem with my guy can you give some advice on how to fix the problem. We talk about it some and then move on to something else. But just because one of us has a problem doesn't mean the listener bashes her guy. It's a good system. My guy does the same with me when talking to his friend.

sassandgroove
02-11-2009, 08:31 PM
I have two close galpals and we do this. Where we go something like I'm having a problem with my guy can you give some advice on how to fix the problem. We talk about it some and then move on to something else. But just because one of us has a problem doesn't mean the listener bashes her guy. It's a good system. My guy does the same with me when talking to his friend.
THat is a good idea. It sounds like you have some good friends.

semilargeintestine
02-11-2009, 08:33 PM
Can we get this thread back to group sex? All this talk about relationships is killin my buzz.

Lyra Jean
02-11-2009, 08:33 PM
When we got married, I tried to be little Susie HOme Maker, and would get really uptight and upset when things didn't go right and Mr. Groove said, "If I wanted to marry Susie Home Maker, I would have. I didn't. I married you and I love you just as you are." (Ok so I may have paraphrased a little,b ut he did say that.)

I did the Susie homemaker thing while still dating along with other habits to keep a guy around but it never worked and I got tired of playing a sham. So before I found my guy I'm like if he doesn't like me the way I am screw it. I'm not afraid of being alone for the rest of my life.

James81
02-11-2009, 08:35 PM
Can we get this thread back to group sex? All this talk about relationships is killin my buzz.

I think we should all get naked and lay in a pile.

semilargeintestine
02-11-2009, 08:38 PM
http://members.tripod.com/~EDcatahoulas/dogpile-1a.jpg

James81
02-11-2009, 08:42 PM
I was thinking more like stacks of naked people. Not just a bunch of us laying around naked.

Wayne K
02-11-2009, 08:45 PM
I was thinking more like stacks of naked people. Not just a bunch of us laying around naked.

How about a little bit of both?

CaroGirl
02-11-2009, 11:46 PM
Forget sex. I think we should talk about grammar. Specifically how to conjugate the verb "to lie." That really gets me excited, if you know what I mean.

Although I do enjoy a large pile of dogs on occasion.

James81
02-11-2009, 11:56 PM
Good point. When you string together the perfect words and create wonderful sentences, it's almost orgasmic...better than sex.

semilargeintestine
02-12-2009, 12:02 AM
Better than sex with you maybe.

Wayne K
02-12-2009, 12:38 AM
Forget sex. I think we should talk about grammar. Specifically how to conjugate the verb "to lie." That really gets me excited, if you know what I mean.

Although I do enjoy a large pile of dogs on occasion.

This site just gets hotter and hotter.

James81
02-12-2009, 12:48 AM
Better than sex with you maybe.

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Music/drums-061.gif

semilargeintestine
02-12-2009, 03:33 AM
;)

Samantha's_Song
02-12-2009, 04:37 AM
What? I've never found anything in this world that's better than sex :Shrug:


...better than sex.

Wayne K
02-12-2009, 04:41 AM
What? I've never found anything in this world that's better than sex :Shrug:

You've never had my butterscotch chip cookies.

semilargeintestine
02-12-2009, 04:48 AM
What about butterscotch chip cookies DURING sex? Huh? Huh? Yeah, that's right.

Samantha's_Song
02-12-2009, 05:12 AM
I don't want crumbs in my crack, thank you very much! :tongue :D

No food is better than sex, and no, not even chocolate... I can say that with a straight face, I'm an insulin dependent diabetic.

semilargeintestine
02-12-2009, 05:14 AM
I dunno. I can survive without sex. No food? That's a tad more difficult. Though sex is really good. Good sex probably is better than food.

Samantha's_Song
02-12-2009, 05:20 AM
... and your mama taught you not to talk with your mouth full anyway ;)


Good sex probably is better than food.

Samantha's_Song
02-12-2009, 05:21 AM
When my friend, SP, sees this, she's going to call me a dirty old bag :D

semilargeintestine
02-12-2009, 05:25 AM
... and your mama taught you not to talk with your mouth full anyway ;)

So many things to do with this...can't decide...brain overload...