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LeeFlower
02-06-2009, 07:22 AM
This is some serious blowing off of steam. Please feel free to boot it to TIO or delete it if it doesn't belong on AW. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Onward:

I attended a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery today. Guess who was standing outside the Metro gate holding "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" signs?

I'm disinclined to find hate groups charming at the best of times, but picketing funerals? That's just ****ed up. Truly, deeply ****ed up. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can profess to love God when they spend their days dehumanizing and disrespecting people who've never done them an injury in this life. I'm not a biblical scholar, but I'm pretty sure that Christ was pretty clear on that point. Maybe I've just got a bad translation, and "love your neighbor as yourself" was supposed to read "There's not enough misery in the world, so please be as big an a-hole as possible to people who are grieving." Someone want to check their copy for me and report back? I looked around at a few others, but all I could find was "That which you have done to the least of these, you have done to me."

At least his family didn't arrive on the train. When the United States Marine Corps is handing you the purple heart they couldn't pin on your son, the last thing you need to deal with is total wackos exercising their first amendment right to be the unwashed bottom of humanity's bell curve.

Beach Bunny
02-06-2009, 07:37 AM
:Jaw:



I thought we learned NOT to do this kind of thing during/after the Vietnam War.

While I don't necessarily support the war, I do support the troops. Those people are just sick. Sick and twisted. And the irony is that American Soldiers swear an oath to defend the enemies of the constitution so assholes like that can stand out there with their signs.

TerzaRima
02-06-2009, 07:53 AM
This was Fred Phelps and his gang of knuckle draggers, yes?

LeeFlower
02-06-2009, 07:53 AM
Terza: Yup*. The picketers weren't even protesting the war. They were those Westboro wackjobs who believe that God kills troops to punish America for tolerating homosexuality.

People who can't summon up enough basic human empathy to be respectful of those who are mourning are not in a terribly good position to call others immoral.

(ETA: *just his knuckle-draggers, actually--he wasn't there. Isn't he dead?).

William Haskins
02-06-2009, 08:17 AM
they're despicable.

free speech is a hell of a thing.

Greenify13
02-06-2009, 08:29 AM
I am one for free speech and all, trust me. But I believe with it becomes personal responsibility and self-restraint. This sickens me to my core, I have-lets say I know people serving, who have served and who have died; just so these backstabbing 'Americans' can have their preserved civil rights. You would think the least they can do, if they have these feelings, is keep their mouth shut. And respect the dignity of the buried, and their grieving families. (yes I realize this particular family did not arrive, but many more have felt the sting of 'free speech')

Joe270
02-06-2009, 10:22 AM
Please feel free to boot it to TIO or delete it if it doesn't belong on AW. I'm not trying to offend anyone.

There's no way you can offend anyone here with this, the offense is Phelps and his crowd's doing.

I seethe with hatred toward them. I want all the worst of pestilence to infect them and for them to suffer the worst of deaths. I long for a special circle of hell for them, where they will suffer for all eternity, 'til the last flower blooms, the last sunset, the last star blinks out which they won't see because they are writhing in agony in a pit of fire.

The worst of the irony is that those soldiers they disrespect are those who gave their lives supporting their right to disrespect those same soldiers.

kct webber
02-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Are these ridiculous monkeys still doing that? Damn. I hadn't heard anything about them for a while. They were in my town a while back. I wanted to speed my car through the group of them.

I was a soldier. I've been shot at. I've been wounded. Twice. I've had a lot of friends and co-workers get killed in various places during their service.

I wouldn't be even a little sad if these asshats suffered a very pinpointed asteroid strike. And then went to hell.

And yet... I support their right to say every damn dispicable word of it. Though I'd cheer like a maniac when some soldier's father punched one of them in the neck.

KTC
02-06-2009, 04:20 PM
It's beyond contempt. Disgusting.

KTC
02-06-2009, 04:28 PM
Here's the treatment our military dead receive upon arriving back to Canada.


http://www.citynews.ca/images/2007-08/aug2307-highway.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v122/7/105/514284167/n514284167_101275_2079.jpg


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a131/shutterbug666/Drive/Heroes11.jpg

Send those filthy bastards up here. We'll figure out something nasty to do with them!

Angie
02-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Send those filthy bastards up here. We'll figure out something nasty to do with them!

I'm sure they'd never go up there. Canada, being a different country and therefore "foreign", is Bad, meaning "destined for hell", as all countries other than the US are. :rolleyes:

StevenJ
02-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Apart from all their other offences against decency, Phelps's lot seem more interested in controversy than their supposed beliefs. And (judging by documentaries I've seen) the younger members appeared to cajoled, if not intimidated into holding those beliefs.

Whatever one's views on the various wars going on, or even on military service itself, it's utterly despicable to intrude on someone else's mourning.

Wayne K
02-06-2009, 04:46 PM
Did none of our snipers survive Iraq? I'd throw a few rounds at or near these people as a show of free speech of my own.

KTC
02-06-2009, 04:48 PM
Maybe you can forcibly draft them and set them down into a high danger zone.

Yeshanu
02-06-2009, 06:26 PM
Maybe you can forcibly draft them and set them down into a high danger zone.

Don't we wish.

There was a thread about Phelps a while back wherein it was postulated that he does what he does for money.

He exercises his "right to free speech" in a despicable manner, someone attacks him physically, and he sues them for assault.

The way to extinguish unwanted behaviour is to ignore it. They couldn't stand that--money or no, Phelps is an attention whore.

Perks
02-06-2009, 06:33 PM
What I hope is that these families don't feel any hurt over it. And I actually think that's possible. Phelps and his loonies are inconsequential (and incomprehensible) enough, that I can't even muster up real offense. It's like getting angry at birdshit.

I'm trying to put myself in the family's position and I think I might be able to ignore them and focus on what's important. Maybe.

I hope so.

Susie
02-06-2009, 06:43 PM
Really awful that the picketers do that.

May the soldier who fought for our country to protect us R.I.P. and may his or her family find peace.

Yeshanu
02-06-2009, 06:43 PM
Sometimes I feel sorry for the guy. Just a little bit, mind you. He truly is mentally ill.

Williebee
02-06-2009, 06:53 PM
Hmm, here's a thought. Send them after Perks' mailbox. ;)

Mr. Haskins pretty much nailed it down. Free speech can be a challenging thing. I would defend their right to be such asshats, but asshats they are. And getting in their face to tell them so wouldn't accomplish a thing.

hmm, I do miss living in D.C.

regdog
02-06-2009, 07:02 PM
Fred Phelps and his mindless drones followers should remember the saying "It's better to say nothing and have people think you're stupid, than open your mouth and prove them right"

Small, ignorant pathetic people will use any opportunity to promote their views.

That said those fools would make wonderful SuperSoaker/Paintball targets

Wayne K
02-06-2009, 08:50 PM
If anyone here lost someone they know in a war, whether they're lurking or what have you. This is my picket line, and I say THANK YOU!

AmyDoodle
02-06-2009, 09:20 PM
I work for a small Methodist church in the South. Because we have new facilities that were appropriate to be able to serve the purpose, we had the funeral of a local fallen soldier here a year or so ago. Some of Phelps gang were here. There was a small group of them who set up shop on the corner across from the church.

But also, the Patriot Guard was here. This a group of veterans who ride motorcycles. They gathered from several states away and, armed with American flags, sat on their bikes and formed a barricade between the protesters and the church. Local newspapers gave coverage to them and the Phelps gang had to go without the fun of upsetting people or the joy of publicity.

It still gives me chills to remember the Patriot Guard holding the line of honor. God bless'em.

TerzaRima
02-06-2009, 09:46 PM
Last year, a banker and scion of a prominent local family bludgeoned his wife and four young children to death, then committed suicide by driving his car into the guard rail on the highway. This is a smallish community, and people were devastated.

Anyway, the Phelps people showed up to picket the mass funeral, which was pretty unspeakable and included four small white coffins being borne out of the church. Why? Their press release said that because this is a university town known for being gay friendly, the murders were "God's judgment" on the city. They are asshats of the very first water.

LeeFlower
02-06-2009, 09:56 PM
As a motorcyclist myself, I've considered joining the Patriot Guard. They're not exclusive to veterans--they welcome anyone, regardless of bike, service, or politics, to stand with them in protecting the sanctity and dignity of funeral services.

Though I wanted to flip the Westboro Wackos the bird as I passed them, I recognize that there's no point in feeding the trolls. I settled instead for a nodding my thanks to the police officers present for standing outside in the freezing cold to defend the constitution.

I honestly don't wish those wackos any ill will. Refusing to forgive is like drinking rat poison and expecting the rat to die, as they say. But I didn't see them outside when I was walking back from the service, and the station manager was yelling at someone to get on the train or get out of his station (I didn't see who he was yelling at), so in my own little head I like to imagine that somebody Got Told.

benbradley
02-06-2009, 10:02 PM
This is some serious blowing off of steam. Please feel free to boot it to TIO or delete it if it doesn't belong on AW. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Onward:

I attended a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery today. Guess who was standing outside the Metro gate holding "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" signs?

I'm disinclined to find hate groups charming at the best of times, but picketing funerals? That's just ****ed up. Truly, deeply ****ed up. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can profess to love God when they spend their days dehumanizing and disrespecting people who've never done them an injury in this life. I'm not a biblical scholar, but I'm pretty sure that Christ was pretty clear on that point. Maybe I've just got a bad translation, and "love your neighbor as yourself" was supposed to read "There's not enough misery in the world, so please be as big an a-hole as possible to people who are grieving." Someone want to check their copy for me and report back? I looked around at a few others, but all I could find was "That which you have done to the least of these, you have done to me."

At least his family didn't arrive on the train. When the United States Marine Corps is handing you the purple heart they couldn't pin on your son, the last thing you need to deal with is total wackos exercising their first amendment right to be the unwashed bottom of humanity's bell curve.
I've got my own sign for them:
"Thank God <or Random Chance> These Brave Men Gave Their Lives To Protect Our Freedom To Live As We Want And Protest What We Want, No Matter How Stupid We Are."

So where was the Patriot Guard? I've mentioned this group in previous threads about Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist church family protesting military funerals:
http://www.patriotguard.org/

Is Phelps and gang not announcing what funerals they'll go to anymore, and showing up as a surprise?

AmyDoodle
02-06-2009, 11:10 PM
They had to apply for the proper permits, etc. here. Even so, being new to this sort of blasphemy, we didn't know about them until the week of the funeral. By then the Patriot Guard was already on it and ready. They are awesome.

brainstorm77
02-06-2009, 11:18 PM
Why the hell would anyone even do that?

Ol' Fashioned Girl
02-07-2009, 12:19 AM
I can only hope there's a widespread news flash when one of Phelps' menagerie dies. I'm betting there will be quiiiiite a turnout for that funeral.

KTC
02-07-2009, 12:21 AM
OFG...I was expecting you to come in here with your gun ablazin'. Consider yourself dispatched.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
02-07-2009, 01:07 AM
Colonel, if I'd said the things I want to say about these numnutz, Mac would have no other choice but to give me a time out... perhaps even ban me for the balance of my natural life. It's best I just alluded to what might happen when Fred or one of his progeny shuffles off this mortal coil. It can't be bad enough.

KikiteNeko
02-07-2009, 01:12 AM
Oh, you must be talking about the www.godhatesfags.com people. Yeah, they're everywhere. Don't worry; they'll get theirs.

Kate Thornton
02-07-2009, 01:25 AM
Despicable and cowardly.

Interrupting any funeral - but especially a soldier's funeral - well, words fortunately fail me or I guess I'd get banned, too.

We all knew when we put the uniform on that we might come home in a box. And we all knew when we took that oath that we would uphold - at any cost - those freedoms we cherished, for ourselves, our families, all of you and yes, even for those who use them so badly.

But this is just beyond ugly. I'm so sorry for those poor families.

Kate
CW3, US Army (ret.)

Snowstorm
02-07-2009, 01:49 AM
I'd like to exercise my freedom of speech by pissing on his grave. But then, the scum wouldn't know about it. Personally, I like the idea of, if and when Phelps comes to my neck of the woods, holding up a sign:

I believe
PHELPS IS GAY

I do believe this and that he's consumed by self-hatred.
ETA: Please understand my little sign is not meant to be an insult to gays. I do honestly believe he is and that's a reason for why he does what he does so venomously.

brainstorm77
02-07-2009, 04:31 AM
phelps needs a good kick in the ass among other things!

William Haskins
02-07-2009, 04:59 AM
I'd like to exercise my freedom of speech by pissing on his grave. But then, the scum wouldn't know about it. Personally, I like the idea of, if and when Phelps comes to my neck of the woods, holding up a sign:

I believe
PHELPS IS GAY

I do believe this and that he's consumed by self-hatred.

we need to move beyond calling someone gay as an insult.

look, the first amendment wouldn't be necessary if everyone was inoffensive and thought along the same lines. the freedom for phelps to spew his hatred, as ugly as it is, guarantees all of you the freedom to express yourselves without fear of retribution.

i personally do not believe phelps is gay, but i do believe that he is driven by power of the most personal and brutal variety.

this is a rather lengthy article that phelps fought long and hard to suppress, but i guarantee if you start reading it, you'll be glued to it until the end.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/michael_haggerty/expose3.htm

Snowstorm
02-07-2009, 05:15 AM
we need to move beyond calling someone gay as an insult.

i personally do not believe phelps is gay, but i do believe that he is driven by power of the most personal and brutal variety.


Whoa! William Haskins, I do NOT mean, nor did I intend to insinuate, that being gay is an insult. Not at all. (I'll edit my post above to indicate that.) I meant it that I do--honestly--believe he's gay, and because of that I believe he is full of self-loathing. Which lends itself to your second sentence as his rationale for his "driven by power of the most personal and brutal variety."

brainstorm77
02-07-2009, 05:18 AM
Whoa! William Haskins, I do NOT mean, nor did I intend to insinuate, that being gay is an insult. Not at all. (I'll edit my post above to indicate that.) I meant it that I do--honestly--believe he's gay, and because of that I believe he is full of self-loathing. Which lends itself to your second sentence as his rationale for his "driven by power of the most personal and brutal variety."

Well its like that stupid saying alot of youth use, ' thats so gay' which implies something is stupid or useless. I really dislike that and my gay friends do take offense to it.

William Haskins
02-07-2009, 05:18 AM
i don't believe you were being malicious in the slightest. but when someone chooses and extra big font size for the "he is gay" part, it is (to me) symptomatic of a cultural propensity for seeing the accusation of being gay as a bombshell gotcha that "explains" a variety of deviant and unsavory behavior.

Snowstorm
02-07-2009, 05:27 AM
Never heard of this saying. If the saying's intent is to slam homosexuals, then taking offense is understandable.


Well its like that stupid saying alot of youth use, ' thats so gay' which implies something is stupid or useless. I really dislike that and my gay friends do take offense to it.

Pagey's_Girl
02-07-2009, 05:37 AM
Snowstorm's probably right. It's what they call "reaction formation." He's closeted and not man enough to come out of the closet, so he goes to these pathetic - and repulsive - lengths to deny it. Like the girl who can't get a date to the prom, so she tries to get the prom banned because it's "insulting to women" or something.


There's no shame in being gay. There is in being a hypocrite, especially when you're doing something so hateful with it.

brainstorm77
02-07-2009, 05:40 AM
Sometimes I think certain people just hate because its born into them... Evil abounds in this world.

Snowstorm
02-07-2009, 05:49 AM
Snowstorm's probably right. It's what they call "reaction formation." He's closeted and not man enough to come out of the closet, so he goes to these pathetic - and repulsive - lengths to deny it. Like the girl who can't get a date to the prom, so she tries to get the prom banned because it's "insulting to women" or something.

There's no shame in being gay. There is in being a hypocrite, especially when you're doing something so hateful with it.

Thanks, Pagey's Girl. I never knew such behavior had a proper name.

And I totally agree with everything you wrote, particularly your last paragraph.

Yeshanu
02-07-2009, 04:32 PM
this is a rather lengthy article that phelps fought long and hard to suppress, but i guarantee if you start reading it, you'll be glued to it until the end.

[Link removed by me for reasons which will become apparent]

I thought long and hard before I made this post, but unfortunately, it has to be made.

William, I'd ask that you remove the link to that article, and for those who have read it, that you not send the link to ten of your friends as requested. Here's why:

It became apparent to me when reading the preamble that the reason the author filed suit in court was not to get compensation for his work, but to have the work published by a "back door" route that would keep him from getting sued by his former employer.

It is extremely clear to me that the work in question is work-for-hire, that the author does not and never did own copyright, and that the owner of the copyright therefore has the right to publish or not publish the work as they desire.

To put it bluntly, what the author did to get his work disseminated, though perhaps not illegal, was highly unethical. The use of unethical methods to point out the lapses in someone else's ethics is something I abhor, and find to be singularly unproductive. If you want others to abide by laws and norms, you'd better do it yourself.

I believe that the owner of the copyright was right not to publish the work for two reasons:

1) It's extremely poorly written. I would expect better prose from a high school student. I certainly wouldn't expect it of professionally published work. I'd be ashamed to submit something that poorly written.

2) Though I'd like to believe what this author says about Phelps, I have to admit that pretty much everything he's said in the article is unsubstantiated. He backs nothing up with citations of any kind, even when he could. In a work of this type, where it's almost certain that publication would mean ending up in court, fighting a lawsuit, it's critical to have those citations in place.

I don't agree with Phelps or his message--to those of you who know me well, that should be obvious.

But I don't agree that "Phelps bashing" is the right way to deal with him, nor do I believe that the dissemination of poorly-written, unsubstantiated allegations is either right or helpful to the cause of shutting this man up.

Once again, please remove the link, don't forward it to your friends, and remember that the only effective way to fight hate is not with more hate, but with love.

William Haskins
02-07-2009, 07:51 PM
you're welcome to petition the mods to remove the link.

Romantic Heretic
02-08-2009, 04:49 PM
Whenever I see people like Fred Phelps, or any person who uses the 'Word of God' to excuse hateful and evil actions I just think, "Somewhere, Satan is smiling."

I should write that story someday, where a Phelps like character gets to meet the deity he really worships. http://bestsmileys.com/evil/11.gif

Wayne K
02-08-2009, 05:38 PM
I personally think God loves gay people. Every time in my life that someone came to help and asked for nothing in return, they were gay, Jewish, black, hispanic. All the people I was taught to hate.

When someone keyed my car, or sprayed swastika's on a temple in the next town I didn't think "Fags!"

It's a shame that church's are using a common hatred as a way of building a congregation, but I guess they can't ramble on about greed, or go into detail about the higher ups in the church who covered up the child sex abuse in the catholic church for obvious reasons.

God hates a lot of things that these haters don't want us to focus on.

Libbie
02-08-2009, 05:55 PM
Sadly, Phelps is still alive. He's a scumbag. One of his sons who left the family wrote a book--freely available online--about life in the Phelps compound. The man (Phelps, not his son) is criminal in many ways, and he thrives off of humiliating and abusing others. It gets him off. I don't believe in simple concepts like "good" and "evil" as absolutes, but Fred Phelps comes as close to pure, unadulterated evil as I've ever seen.

Edited: I see it's in vogue to avoid Phelps on this forum. Well, if anybody in interested in reading the e-book, PM me and I'll send you the link.

Yeshanu
02-08-2009, 06:39 PM
It's a shame that church's are using a common hatred as a way of building a congregation, but I guess they can't ramble on about greed, or go into detail about the higher ups in the church who covered up the child sex abuse in the catholic church for obvious reasons.


It's especially a shame that people who don't know much about the church think that "church" is synonymous with hatred and prejudice, and use the word in a derogatory way. I really don't mind that Phelps hates gays and lesbians--it's his right to be wrong. But that he should get so much media coverage that people think of him when they think of church, instead of the millions upon millions of loving, caring people who represent the vast majority of Christians is truly upsetting.

I'm a lesbian, and I'm not ashamed of that fact. But I'm also a Christian, and it's as basic to my identification as my sexual orientation and gender, and I do not go to, nor have ever gone to, a church that preaches hate instead of love.

Wayne K
02-08-2009, 07:13 PM
It's especially a shame that people who don't know much about the church think that "church" is synonymous with hatred and prejudice, and use the word in a derogatory way.

I was referring to the ones who do preach hate.

Yeshanu
02-08-2009, 07:26 PM
I realize that, Wayne.

However, I've come across many who see the "church" as a monolithic group of people who are all right-wing bible-thumping fanatics. It helps, when talking about specific groups within the church, to be a bit more specific.

HeronW
02-08-2009, 07:59 PM
Even if you don't respect the dead person, respect those who are there for the passing.

Funeral picketers should be arrested.

brainstorm77
02-08-2009, 09:10 PM
I personally think God loves gay people. Every time in my life that someone came to help and asked for nothing in return, they were gay, Jewish, black, hispanic. All the people I was taught to hate.

When someone keyed my car, or sprayed swastika's on a temple in the next town I didn't think "Fags!"

It's a shame that church's are using a common hatred as a way of building a congregation, but I guess they can't ramble on about greed, or go into detail about the higher ups in the church who covered up the child sex abuse in the catholic church for obvious reasons.

God hates a lot of things that these haters don't want us to focus on.

I just don't judge why someone is gay or whatever.. It does not affect my life so why should it bother me?

Jean Marie
02-08-2009, 09:16 PM
they're despicable.

free speech is a hell of a thing.
Incredibly so.

Yes, it is.


Why the hell would anyone even do that?
Such is evil.


I can only hope there's a widespread news flash when one of Phelps' menagerie dies. I'm betting there will be quiiiiite a turnout for that funeral.
One can only hope. Also, one can only hope that it will be more dignified than what they afford those who have died in the name of this country. That would be a real kick in their collective asses.


Whoa! William Haskins, I do NOT mean, nor did I intend to insinuate, that being gay is an insult. Not at all. (I'll edit my post above to indicate that.) I meant it that I do--honestly--believe he's gay, and because of that I believe he is full of self-loathing. Which lends itself to your second sentence as his rationale for his "driven by power of the most personal and brutal variety."
Using "gay" as an insult, or insinuating it, is the same as saying one is full of "self-loathing" due to one's heritage/lineage. It doesn't follow.


Sometimes I think certain people just hate because its born into them... Evil abounds in this world.
Yup.


I realize that, Wayne.

However, I've come across many who see the "church" as a monolithic group of people who are all right-wing bible-thumping fanatics. It helps, when talking about specific groups within the church, to be a bit more specific.
Yup. Otherwise, it could be quite confusing as can be clearly seen by Phelps and his clan which is entirely hate-filled. Not nearly the same as the church that I attend.

See the difference, Wayne. Hope so. It's rather imperative to not lump us church-goer's together.


Even if you don't respect the dead person, respect those who are there for the passing.

Funeral picketers should be arrested.
Sadly, arresting funeral picketers negates free speech.

brainstorm77
02-08-2009, 09:19 PM
Incredibly so.

Yes, it is.


Such is evil.


One can only hope. Also, one can only hope that it will be more dignified than what they afford those who have died in the name of this country. That would be a real kick in their collective asses.


Using "gay" as an insult, or insinuating it, is the same as saying one is full of "self-loathing" due to one's heritage/lineage. It doesn't follow.


Yup.


Yup. Otherwise, it could be quite confusing as can be clearly seen by Phelps and his clan which is entirely hate-filled. Not nearly the same as the church that I attend.

See the difference, Wayne. Hope so. It's rather imperative to not lump us church-goer's together.


Sadly, arresting funeral picketers negates free speech.

Makes one wonder when the ' free speech' button is used once to often.

Jean Marie
02-08-2009, 09:21 PM
I personally think God loves gay people. Every time in my life that someone came to help and asked for nothing in return, they were gay, Jewish, black, hispanic. All the people I was taught to hate.

When someone keyed my car, or sprayed swastika's on a temple in the next town I didn't think "Fags!"

It's a shame that church's are using a common hatred as a way of building a congregation, but I guess they can't ramble on about greed, or go into detail about the higher ups in the church who covered up the child sex abuse in the catholic church for obvious reasons.

God hates a lot of things that these haters don't want us to focus on.
Can we not lump everything all together into one post.

I'm Catholic, however I realize that you don't have the inside track on what occurred inside the church, nor do I.

Thank you.

Jean Marie
02-08-2009, 09:23 PM
Makes one wonder when the ' free speech' button is used once to often.
Yeah, well unfortunately we all get to use it even when we want to smack the crap out of the ones who we feel use it inappropriately :) Referring to Phelps, of course.

brainstorm77
02-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Yeah, well unfortunately we all get to use it even when we want to smack the crap out of the ones who we feel use it inappropriately :) Referring to Phelps, of course.

Agreed! There will always be a few who will take advantage of it. But just once I would LOVE to see him get his ass beaten!

Thank God he did not get into Canada. From what I hear he tried really hard too.

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 12:02 AM
Can we not lump everything all together into one post.

I'm Catholic, however I realize that you don't have the inside track on what occurred inside the church, nor do I.

Thank you.


We all kniow what happened and Bill Mahr was right. If the catholic church was a daycare center, they would all be in jail. I'm a catholic but no I'm not going to defend what God does hate.

semilargeintestine
02-09-2009, 12:07 AM
This is some serious blowing off of steam. Please feel free to boot it to TIO or delete it if it doesn't belong on AW. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Onward:

I attended a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery today. Guess who was standing outside the Metro gate holding "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" signs?

I'm disinclined to find hate groups charming at the best of times, but picketing funerals? That's just ****ed up. Truly, deeply ****ed up. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can profess to love God when they spend their days dehumanizing and disrespecting people who've never done them an injury in this life. I'm not a biblical scholar, but I'm pretty sure that Christ was pretty clear on that point. Maybe I've just got a bad translation, and "love your neighbor as yourself" was supposed to read "There's not enough misery in the world, so please be as big an a-hole as possible to people who are grieving." Someone want to check their copy for me and report back? I looked around at a few others, but all I could find was "That which you have done to the least of these, you have done to me."

At least his family didn't arrive on the train. When the United States Marine Corps is handing you the purple heart they couldn't pin on your son, the last thing you need to deal with is total wackos exercising their first amendment right to be the unwashed bottom of humanity's bell curve.

I know it's completely hypocritical, but I absolutely hate these people. They are the scum of the Earth and hide behind religion to try and justify the prejudice and hate they preach, when in fact their religion says nothing about killing people for believing something different than them. They have the right to do it, I guess, but that doesn't mean I wish they wouldn't.

At the same time, I feel bad for them because they're spending their whole lives aggravated about something that doesn't affect them in the slightest. That must suck to wake up and go to bed angry and ignorant every day. I also feel bad because they're going to be in for a huge shock when they die, afterlife or not.

johnnysannie
02-09-2009, 02:34 AM
We all kniow what happened and Bill Mahr was right. If the catholic church was a daycare center, they would all be in jail. I'm a catholic but no I'm not going to defend what God does hate.

Not true. The majority of Catholic priests are and were innocent; the bad ones got a lot of media publicity. Clery/kid abuse happens in all faiths but most are not under one umbrella like the Catholic Church so the stats are not as easily available.

And for the record, I'm Catholic too.

Jean Marie
02-09-2009, 05:31 AM
We all kniow what happened and Bill Mahr was right. If the catholic church was a daycare center, they would all be in jail. I'm a catholic but no I'm not going to defend what God does hate.
That's the most lopsided argument I've ever heard...and Bill Mahr has what to do w/ this? Oh wait, I thought this was a logical debate, I'm sorry...carry on.

Like I said, lump it all together so it will make sense to...I don't know...no one...


Not true. The majority of Catholic priests are and were innocent; the bad ones got a lot of media publicity. Clery/kid abuse happens in all faiths but most are not under one umbrella like the Catholic Church so the stats are not as easily available.

And for the record, I'm Catholic too.
Right.

The Catholic Church does not have an exclusive on abuse. It did, however garner an awful lot of publicity. Abuse happens in all faiths, underneath all frocks, sadly. Unfortunately, some want to pin it only on the Catholics.

It's sort of like saying only white people commit incest/rape. It's an equally stupid/uneducated statement.

benbradley
02-09-2009, 05:47 AM
Can't decide whether to post, just sit here and eat popcorn, or what...
:popcorn:
I thought it wasn't that some priests were abusers per se, it's that priests reported to the church as abusers were sent off to the same positions of trust in other parishes rather than being turned over to the police or at least being removed permanently from positions of trust.

Jean Marie
02-09-2009, 06:15 AM
Actually, this thread's supposed to be about Phelps clan protesting funerals. How the hell the Catholic church got dragged into this, I'll never know. It doesn't belong here. However, the priests were in fact used a bit like chess pieces, Ben, in that they were moved from parish to parish instead of being turned over to the police. In that fact, you're absolutely correct. Had that been done from get go, there never would have been a problem, or at the very least, it would have been properly taken care of.

Romantic Heretic
02-09-2009, 11:11 AM
When I'm pissed about Phelps or any of the other evil people or things in the world I just take a deep breath and remember Matthewson's 23rd Edict from The Book of Universal Truths and other Humorous Anecdotes.

Ahem.

"To be angered by evil is to partake of it, stupid."

;)

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Can't decide whether to post, just sit here and eat popcorn, or what...
:popcorn:
I thought it wasn't that some priests were abusers per se, it's that priests reported to the church as abusers were sent off to the same positions of trust in other parishes rather than being turned over to the police or at least being removed permanently from positions of trust.


Exactly. In any other walk of life they're called co conspirators. But if you say so you're anti religion or anti church, or a nut. I'm a catholic and I go to church, but I'm also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, so I see it for what it is, and call it what it is.
I get child molestors, it's what they are. But the ones who moved them around and soiled the church by allowing it to go on are still there and have never had to answer for their crimes.
Of course I'm a devil worshipper for saying so. If we all whistle in the dark about it, it'll go away right?

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 04:57 PM
Silence Dogood letter. Words to live by.

I am an Enemy to Vice, and a Friend to Vertue. I am one of an extensive Charity, and a great Forgiver of private Injuries: A hearty Lover of the Clergy and all good Men, and a mortal Enemy to arbitrary Government & unlimited Power. I am naturally very jealous for the Rights and Liberties of my Country; & the least appearance of an Incroachment on those invaluable Priviledges, is apt to make my Blood boil exceedingly. I have likewise a natural Inclination to observe and reprove the Faults of others, at which I have an excellent Faculty. I speak this by Way of Warning to all such whose Offences shall come under my Cognizance, for I never intend to wrap my Talent in a Napkin. To be brief; I am courteous and affable, good-humour'd (unless I am first provok'd,) and handsome, and sometimes witty...[

Jean Marie
02-09-2009, 06:52 PM
Exactly. In any other walk of life they're called co conspirators. But if you say so you're anti religion or anti church, or a nut. I'm a catholic and I go to church, but I'm also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, so I see it for what it is, and call it what it is.
I get child molestors, it's what they are. But the ones who moved them around and soiled the church by allowing it to go on are still there and have never had to answer for their crimes.
Of course I'm a devil worshipper for saying so. If we all whistle in the dark about it, it'll go away right?
Guess you missed the Papal apology, the first one, ever, btw. The millions in lawsuits that were given out, as well. That's known as restitution, not perfect and not meant to be, nothing in that situation is.

It was brought to light, a number of parishs have closed their doors as a result of paying the lawsuits. What more would you like? A number of priests went to jail. What more would you like?

Church membership has dropped. What more would you like?

Nothing in this world has a perfect solution, deal w/ it. But carrying around an armload of anger is not the answer.

I had a brother who contested my mother's trust. (he also stole her things that she left for me and has them for sale, among other things, I may or may not get them back) She passed away in August. He's a tad on the demented side, but continuing to be angry at him gets me nothing. Attempting to pray for him, sort of does. Try it. It may not change the fact that he's mental, but in the long run it will help me get over what he's done to me.

Samantha's_Song
02-09-2009, 07:05 PM
Whilst I am totally against the Iraq war, and am old enough to remember Vietnam being played out on the news and against that too, I think those sentiments are disgusting. A soldier goes where he's ordered to, he doesn't get to choose his wars. His family and friends are the ones left to grieve and they really don't need to see this shit outside of any cemetery.


I attended a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery today. Guess who was standing outside the Metro gate holding "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" signs?

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 07:41 PM
Guess you missed the Papal apology, the first one, ever, btw. The millions in lawsuits that were given out, as well. That's known as restitution, not perfect and not meant to be, nothing in that situation is.

It was brought to light, a number of parishs have closed their doors as a result of paying the lawsuits. What more would you like? A number of priests went to jail. What more would you like?

Church membership has dropped. What more would you like?

Nothing in this world has a perfect solution, deal w/ it. But carrying around an armload of anger is not the answer.

.

I don't carry around anger about it at all, and I don't see how you assume that. The people who run the church are not the church and anyone who looks at the subject reasonably can see what I see. Calling me anti church and an angry rambler doesn't change the fact that these people belong in jail.

jst5150
02-09-2009, 07:50 PM
Just some notes on this, as a fellow service member (about to retire) like Kate:

-- My father, a former Navy SEAL who served in Vietnam, rides with the Patriot Guard. He's confronted a couple of loons and disposed of them. He was given a misdemeanor assault ticket for one and nothing for the other.
-- Rather than getting caught up in the vitriol, ask yourself this: how is the church so well funded that it can send people across the nation to disrupt these events? Religious conviction is powerful, but what other agenda does the church have for doing this -- money, fame, power? Finally, what does the church hope to gain from its actions.
-- Based on what the church does and how people are forced to react to their actions, is the church really a domestic terrorism organization? Sure, it gets a tax break from the government. So do scientologists. So, is what the church is doing a form of terrorism (i.e., quite literally, is the organization spreading terror)?
-- Finally, does the church have merits beyond going to and disrupting funerals? It's based in Kansas. The politicians and business people there allow it to hang around. So, what else does the church do aside from heisting the emotion at a funeral?

In closing, send them ALL to my funeral. While you're at it, play every DVD and video ever made by Ron Jeremy, Vivid Video and the Cabellero Corporation. Bring in every environmentalist, ever Vegan and every single one of those guys at the airport who tries to sneak you a pamphlet. Wheel in the flag burners and the gun owners Also, Bring in every blogger who will attend, every one who makes post on this forum and every single other American person who cares about free speech.

I gave 21 years supporting and defending -- fighting for -- the Constitution of the United States. They have the right to use it.

KTC
02-09-2009, 07:56 PM
Yeah, Jason...therein lies the rub. I would fight for everybody to have the right to free speech. I would. I cringe at the way it is sometimes used and how it sometimes infringes on others, but I would fight for that right. It's a bitter pill to swallow. Irony of Ironies. I'd love to see this guy and his people wiped from the face of the earth for what they are doing, but they have a right to do it.

jst5150
02-09-2009, 08:03 PM
Yeah, Jason...therein lies the rub. I would fight for everybody to have the right to free speech. I would. I cringe at the way it is sometimes used and how it sometimes infringes on others, but I would fight for that right. It's a bitter pill to swallow. Irony of Ironies. I'd love to see this guy and his people wiped from the face of the earth for what they are doing, but they have a right to do it.

It is a shame the writers could not have added a End-User License Agreement or Terms of Service on the bottom of the page, in agate type, as other companies do:

"Please use product for its intended use. Not liable for unintended or unspecified uses beyond those mentioned here. Any intended use voids the warranty and cedes power back to Great Britain. Not valid in New Hampshire."

Jean Marie
02-09-2009, 08:45 PM
in my recent travels across the country, I ran into a guy who rides for the Patriot Guard (he was riding his motorcycle, so it was kind of hard to miss) and had a chance to speak w/ him...he fought in the Vietnam War...what a guy. I thanked him for what he's doing and his service, too.

Naturally, the discussion turned to the freak, Phelps and he said that's why he has to continue riding at each and every funeral that he possibly can. He considers it to be his duty.

benbradley
02-09-2009, 09:12 PM
...
I gave 21 years supporting and defending -- fighting for -- the Constitution of the United States. They have the right to use it.


Yeah, Jason...therein lies the rub. I would fight for everybody to have the right to free speech. I would. I cringe at the way it is sometimes used and how it sometimes infringes on others, but I would fight for that right. It's a bitter pill to swallow. Irony of Ironies. I'd love to see this guy and his people wiped from the face of the earth for what they are doing, but they have a right to do it.
Thanks, guys. There's a quote a teacher told us in high school in the 1970's (she was older, and I suspect quoting from her earlier education rather than the textbook), that went something like "I may strongly disagree with your opinion, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." I've actually heard that several times, but not recently.

There's a point made by a rightwing nutjob talkshow host I often listen to: The Constitutional guarantee of free speech is NOT needed for polite or popular speech. It's needed for the extreme speech, the unpopular speech that would otherwise be silenced.

MaryMumsy
02-09-2009, 09:22 PM
Not too long ago I saw a funeral procession on a major street near me. They were heading in the direction of going to our national cemetary. In addition to the hearse and maybe a dozen cars/trucks there had to have been at least three dozen motorcycles. They were all flying flags. American flags, service branch flags, unit flags. It was a sight to behold. I was waiting to make a right turn from a parking lot and they were going past on the other side of the street. When the idiot behind me honked because I wasn't turning, I put the car in park so they would know I wasn't moving until the procession was past. My Dad served in the Pacific in WW II, Germany during the Cold War, and one tour in Viet Nam. Our vets deserve all the respect we can show them.

MM

LeeFlower
02-09-2009, 09:32 PM
Just some notes on this, as a fellow service member (about to retire) like Kate:

-- Based on what the church does and how people are forced to react to their actions, is the church really a domestic terrorism organization? Sure, it gets a tax break from the government. So do scientologists. So, is what the church is doing a form of terrorism (i.e., quite literally, is the organization spreading terror)?
-- Finally, does the church have merits beyond going to and disrupting funerals? It's based in Kansas. The politicians and business people there allow it to hang around. So, what else does the church do aside from heisting the emotion at a funeral?

Well, the Southern Poverty Law Center does classify them as a hate group. I'm not sure it's really fair to call them a "church," either, as most reports indicate that the vast majority of members are in some way related to Phelps. It's more like a compound.

As far as why it's allowed to stay around: because we're fortunate enough to live in a country that doesn't lock up its obnoxious wackos until they start breaking laws. Which the Westboro people have done repeatedly, and for which they've been arrested repeatedly, but that doesn't negate their right to assemble. For which I thank everyone who's protected the US constitution and the first amendment.

Jean Marie
02-09-2009, 09:44 PM
Well, the Southern Poverty Law Center does classify them as a hate group. I'm not sure it's really fair to call them a "church," either, as most reports indicate that the vast majority of members are in some way related to Phelps. It's more like a compound.

As far as why it's allowed to stay around: because we're fortunate enough to live in a country that doesn't lock up its obnoxious wackos until they start breaking laws. Which the Westboro people have done repeatedly, and for which they've been arrested repeatedly, but that doesn't negate their right to assemble. For which I thank everyone who's protected the US constitution and the first amendment.
Thanks for pointing out that they're not really a church, in the true sense of the word, since they're all related. More like a family compound traveling show/circus.

Why they're allowed to do what they do is b/c we have freedom of speech. Weird as it is and sick as it seems to us. It's very tough to wrap my mind around it.

LeeFlower
02-09-2009, 10:20 PM
Why they're allowed to do what they do is b/c we have freedom of speech. Weird as it is and sick as it seems to us. It's very tough to wrap my mind around it.

I think Neil Gaiman said it best when he said that the law is a blunt instrument, not a scalpel. The only way to ensure that people have the freedom to say all the good and necessary things that preserve our democracy and celebrate the wonderful diversity of our beliefs and opinions is to defend also the obscene nonsense people like Phelps use to prop up their flacid messages of hate.

Jean Marie
02-09-2009, 10:23 PM
I think Neil Gaiman said it best when he said that the law is a blunt instrument, not a scalpel. The only way to ensure that people have the freedom to say all the good and necessary things that preserve our democracy and celebrate the wonderful diversity of our beliefs and opinions is to defend also the obscene nonsense people like Phelps use to prop up their flacid messages of hate.
Well said.

brainstorm77
02-09-2009, 11:36 PM
My friend who killed himself on the 29th of Jan was gay. I know if anyone had been there picketing his funeral and throwing slurs around like the Phelps crowd have done... Well there would have been war that day.

I'm not a lesbian, but whomever one chooses to love is their business. And hiding behind God to make some stupid personal point which is what that A-hole is doing is wrong. If he hates Gay people then so be it... But going public in such a way .. I really do think he will pay for it in the end.

Karma I hope will bite him in the end. And there will be a time when he will be judge by a power which is higher then us all.

Wayne K
02-09-2009, 11:55 PM
My friend who killed himself on the 29th of Jan was gay. I know if anyone had been there picketing his funeral and throwing slurs around like the Phelps crowd have done... Well there would have been war that day.

I'm not a lesbian, but whomever one chooses to love is their business. And hiding behind God to make some stupid personal point which is what that A-hole is doing is wrong. If he hates Gay people then so be it... But going public in such a way .. I really do think he will pay for it in the end.

Karma I hope will bite him in the end. And there will be a time when he will be judge by a power which is higher then us all.

I'm not gay ( Sometimes I wish I was, I'd have done well) but I marched in the AIDS memorial parade they had in place of the Gay Pride day parade ten years ago, and some people dressed up like skeletons. What they didn't get was that any other group would have killed them. Just the fact that they felt comfortable doing it makes gay people better than them.

johnnysannie
02-10-2009, 01:18 AM
Can't decide whether to post, just sit here and eat popcorn, or what...
:popcorn:
I thought it wasn't that some priests were abusers per se, it's that priests reported to the church as abusers were sent off to the same positions of trust in other parishes rather than being turned over to the police or at least being removed permanently from positions of trust.

And you actually believe that other faiths including Protestant sects do better? They don't....abusers generally just quietly leave if caught or accused and go somewhere else to begin again with new victims.

johnnysannie
02-10-2009, 01:20 AM
Guess you missed the Papal apology, the first one, ever, btw. The millions in lawsuits that were given out, as well. That's known as restitution, not perfect and not meant to be, nothing in that situation is.

It was brought to light, a number of parishs have closed their doors as a result of paying the lawsuits. What more would you like? A number of priests went to jail. What more would you like?

Church membership has dropped. What more would you like?

Nothing in this world has a perfect solution, deal w/ it. But carrying around an armload of anger is not the answer.

I had a brother who contested my mother's trust. (he also stole her things that she left for me and has them for sale, among other things, I may or may not get them back) She passed away in August. He's a tad on the demented side, but continuing to be angry at him gets me nothing. Attempting to pray for him, sort of does. Try it. It may not change the fact that he's mental, but in the long run it will help me get over what he's done to me.


And they may have also missed recanted statements, ones where someone claimed abuse decades later to get large sums of money, then felt guilty about it and recanted...after destroying the lives and reputation of innocent individuals.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 01:25 AM
I'm not gay ( Sometimes I wish I was, I'd have done well) but I marched in the AIDS memorial parade they had in place of the Gay Pride day parade ten years ago, and some people dressed up like skeletons. What they didn't get was that any other group would have killed them. Just the fact that they felt comfortable doing it makes gay people better than them.

I'm not gay either, but I have plenty of friends who are, and I have marched in parades and protests. Seeing people come out to shout things about eternal damnation and all that really gets me nacked, but I just have faith (which is funny really) that they'll get theirs.

KTC
02-10-2009, 01:42 AM
I'm not gay either, but I have plenty of friends who are, and I have marched in parades and protests. Seeing people come out to shout things about eternal damnation and all that really gets me nacked, but I just have faith (which is funny really) that they'll get theirs.

I think natural selection will curse all bigots. I hope it doesn't take a million years for it to happen. The 'To Each His Own' Utopia will come. As soon as the asshats all die.

semilargeintestine
02-10-2009, 01:43 AM
Too right, KTC.

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 03:58 AM
And they may have also missed recanted statements, ones where someone claimed abuse decades later to get large sums of money, then felt guilty about it and recanted...after destroying the lives and reputation of innocent individuals.

Those people pissed me off to no end because it turned the public against the thousands of actual victims. It doesn't negate what happened either.

Carole
02-10-2009, 04:26 AM
We've been discussing the free speech thing in US Gov't & Politics over the past week or so, and it's stunning to me that what these nut jobs do isn't universally considered a hate crime. Free speech does have limits! Why aren't there limits for hate-filled people whose sole intention is to inflict pain on people who are already suffering the loss of a loved one? They aren't trying to get across any freaking message. They intend to cause harm. Period. I think they ought to be considered a danger to our society.

Jean Marie
02-10-2009, 05:01 AM
And they may have also missed recanted statements, ones where someone claimed abuse decades later to get large sums of money, then felt guilty about it and recanted...after destroying the lives and reputation of innocent individuals.
and they also may have missed the false accusations against priests who actually did nothing wrong. that happened to a friend of mine whom I went to grammar school w/ and went on to be a priest. wonder how he and his family felt. goes both ways, you know. nearly destroyed both him and his family. fortunately both have a strong faith.

nothing's perfect is my point.

back to the topic; Phelps is an asshole, however we do have free speech in this land, therefore he's allowed to spew his hatred, sad but true. that's what our forefather's fought and died for.

LeeFlower
02-10-2009, 07:35 AM
Hey, if we could maybe not talk about church sex abuse scandals in this thread, I'd appreciate it. There are other threads for that (or start one), but for this particular thread, it's off-topic, and it keeps dragging the thread off-topic. Muchos Gracias/Many Thanks.

Back to the subject at hand: Carole, I wouldn't want to see what they're doing labeled a hate crime at all. They're obscene, and they're disrespectful, and their attention-grubbing whores who'd do anything for a few seconds of news coverage. But if we label what they're doing a crime, we're letting them win. We're saying "Yes, you can destroy our constitution and the freedoms we hold dear if you complain about them loudly enough, and are a big enough jerk when you do it."

It pisses those people off that people in this country disagree with them. It makes them so mad that they put their whole lives on hold and travel the country to stand outside in below-freezing weather just to harass people they've never met. If we see them coming and try to bar their path, we're giving them an awful lot of power. If instead we look them in the eye and say "That's right, ***holes, this is a country where even your dumb*** opinion gets a fair hearing, and there's nothing you can do about it," we're turning their hate-fueled diarrhea of the mouth into a celebration of the very freedoms they're protesting: our right to worship, gather, and speak as we please, without seeking permission from religious extremists first.

Carole
02-10-2009, 05:44 PM
I have to disagree. There are real limits to free speech and the right to assemble--not everything one says or does in our society is protected by the 1st amendment. I think this ought to be one of those things. For many, a funeral is a religious service.

StoryG27
02-10-2009, 05:57 PM
I also had first hand experience with this when I attended a funeral for a fellow soldier of Hubby's who died in combat. This young man had been a very close friend of my husband's, my husband had been there when he died. It was a very emotional experience, and my husband was still deployed. I couldn't believe those people were allowed to stand around with their "Thank God for dead soldiers" signs. The actual funeral was on post and they weren't granted access, but they picketed near the gate. What really mad me made was the news coverage of these people, and that the news anchor actually gave them a voice, stuck the microphone in their faces and let them spew their hatred across the airways to a very raw audience. It really tainted what should have been a solemn, honorable ceremony, but it could never change the respect, love, and gratitude we all held for that amazing young soldier. If those people want to picket with their signs, the best we can do is ignore them, and really pressure the media not to give them so much attention, mentioning them is fine, or even a picture, but don't give them any extra attention, they're not worth it, and they don't deserve a moment of our time.

Wayne K
02-10-2009, 06:08 PM
I have to disagree. There are real limits to free speech and the right to assemble--not everything one says or does in our society is protected by the 1st amendment. I think this ought to be one of those things. For many, a funeral is a religious service.

I feel you, but I disagree. The reason I disagree isn't becauuse I want to picket these people's funerals, it's because when you open free speech up to litigation you start to open doors that you can't later close. Hate speech is perfectly legal, it's when it inspires action that it crosses the line, and even that is a blurry line. Thomas Paine said it best "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself."

Jean Marie
02-10-2009, 07:30 PM
I have to disagree. There are real limits to free speech and the right to assemble--not everything one says or does in our society is protected by the 1st amendment. I think this ought to be one of those things. For many, a funeral is a religious service.
Which is why the best they could do is to back these butt wipes up, I believe, 100 yards. Feel free to correct me on the exact yardage.

That way, they're still within the constraints of free speech but not within ear shot, supposedly of family/friends of the fallen soldier.

I do agree a funeral is a religious service, Carole. Generally speaking, prayers of some kind are involved making it so.

johnnysannie
02-12-2009, 04:10 PM
Few people do this any more but I always pull over to show respect for any funeral procession.

My dad passed away in January and as a veteran had military rites at the cemetery. Had any idiot chosen to picket his funeral for any reason, he or she would have had to deal with male relatives, all of which are formidable including a law enforcement officer.

I respect the right to free speech only until it crosses into my personal space.

Carole
02-23-2009, 04:56 PM
Few people do this any more but I always pull over to show respect for any funeral procession.



I always do that too. Not only that, but if I pass a procession and can't pull over or if I pass by a cemetery where a burial is happening, I turn off my radio even though they can't hear it. Dad taught me to do that out of respect, sort of like taking off your hat. Just a gesture like a moment of silence for them.