Horse Euthanasia in Ancient Times

c.e.lawson · Feb 3, 2009

No offense to any horse lovers out there. I am not enjoying writing this scene, but I need to know how a man in ancient Greece would euthanize his horse that just fractured its foreleg. The man would be using a dagger or a short sword to do this.

Thank you,

c.e.

dpaterso · Feb 3, 2009

Cut a main artery, that simple. Just behind the jaw, on either side, or both, will do the trick. Blood pressure drops instantly causing dizziness, maybe the horse would stagger (assuming it's still standing), then drop down onto its knees, then keel over. Blood will spray.

-Derek

c.e.lawson · Feb 3, 2009

I shudder at the thought of letting the poor animal bleed out, but I guess there is no other alternative. Thank you, Derek.

c.e.

Red-Green · Feb 3, 2009

Plus, the bleeding out serves a dual purpose: rendering the meat edible. As unseemly as it seems to our cushy modern sensibilities, the odds of an animal like that being killed and not eaten are pretty small.

veinglory · Feb 3, 2009

Rapid bleeding out is one of the least painful physical methods. However it is possible the horse would be stunned with a hammer blow first. then if the cut is done with a very sharp knife it would effectively kill the animal before it regained consciousness.

Lady_of_Myth · Feb 3, 2009

Or you could stab it in the heart; that would work, and it isn't half as gory. I saw that in a movie once.

Poor horse! that is so sad...

*sniff*

veinglory · Feb 3, 2009

I suspect that might be difficult to accomplish quickly if the horse isn't already prone and pretty close to death.

Lady_of_Myth · Feb 3, 2009

Well you could force the horse to lie down.

dpaterso · Feb 3, 2009

Lady_of_Myth said:
Well you could force the horse to lie down.

Not tryin' to argue, but a horse with a bust leg isn't likely to cooperate.

Given that your protag is a Spartan soldier, c.e., and they had those ruddy big swords with the weighty end, I'm inclined to think he or someone else might give the horse a quick mercy stroke chop to the back of the neck, severing the spine.

-Derek

Tsu Dho Nimh · Feb 3, 2009

Slash its throat with the warrior's dagger and it will be unconscious in 30 seconds and dead in a couple of minutes. But watch out for the thrashing legs.

c.e.lawson · Feb 3, 2009

dpaterso said:
Not tryin' to argue, but a horse with a bust leg isn't likely to cooperate.

Given that your protag is a Spartan soldier, c.e., and they had those ruddy big swords with the weighty end, I'm inclined to think he or someone else might give the horse a quick mercy stroke chop to the back of the neck, severing the spine.

-Derek

Well that's sort of what I was wondering when I asked the question - if there is a known way to "pith" the horse, like one does to a laboratory frog (sorry - I took biology and I hated doing that, but there you have it) where things happen a little more quickly. But the neck seems so strong - I wonder if that's plausible, or where you'd actually go in. The way I have the scene, the horse is sort of lying down, but he's definitely not still and he's struggling to rise - it's only a foreleg fracture, so he's not actually dying yet. Thanks, Derek.

Thanks also to Redzilla, veinglory and Lady_of_Myth - I appreciate your input. Bleeding out the horse seems a likely method. I'll try doing a little more googling - maybe if I look up how to pith, or something like that, I'll get lucky. Or I can call my vet. If not, I'll go with the jab to the artery behind the jaw.

c.e.

c.e.lawson · Feb 3, 2009

Tsu Dho Nimh said:
Slash its throat with the warrior's dagger and it will be unconscious in 30 seconds and dead in a couple of minutes. But watch out for the thrashing legs.

I missed this when I was replying earlier. You sound like you know the subject matter!

Thanks for your help.

veinglory · Feb 4, 2009

You can see the location pretty well on pg 33 and 53 here: http://books.google.com/books?id=CUFN_K0AHgsC
To the present day horse slaughter as general via carotid or jugular bleeding--although now the animal is always stunned first (or should be).

c.e.lawson · Feb 4, 2009

That's a beautiful book, veinglory. Thank you.

I just found that the jugular groove is where a horse's pulse is taken, and the carotid artery, jugular vein and sympathetic chain are in there, so I'm thinking that might be the place to plunge the sword.

http://books.google.com/books?id=b9...k9WkBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result

veinglory · Feb 4, 2009

I would think so. It is important to use a sharp edge as a smooth cut prevents clotting over the ends of the vessels (apologies for getting a bit graphic).

c.e.lawson · Feb 4, 2009

Apologies for getting a bit graphic, veinglory? This is Sparta! You should see my chapter on the ritual flagellation at Artemis Orthia. This horse scene is child's play.

c.e.

Smiling Ted · Feb 4, 2009

There are also plants that are reputed to act as sedatives on horses - chamomile and valerian. And I believe oleander is poisonous.

If the Spartan cares more for his horse than he does for his Helots, maybe he feeds it some valerian first, to sooth it and make the killing stroke more clean.

Leva · Feb 5, 2009

Just as a note, smacking the horse between the eyes isn't likely to work to stun it. The brain is up higher, just below the ears. (If you draw an "x" between the ears and the opposite eyes, the brain's centered in the middle.)

Had an obnoxious gelding who bit a chunk out of my mare's nether regions. When he came back for seconds, she kicked him so hard in the head that she put a dent in his skull between the eyes. He will have a dent (it is at least an inch deep) there for the rest of his life.

Gave him a bloody nose and I assume quite a headache, but he was fine, except for the dent.

If she'd gotten him about two inches higher he probably would have been dead.

Didn't stop him from being a butt, either.

-- Leva

Horserider · Feb 5, 2009

If you want to see it in action, try to find a video of horse slaughter in Mexico. They use knives to severe the spine. It's horrible. Too bad they couldn't have just shot them like they did when guns were invented. Save a lot of suffering.

veinglory · Feb 5, 2009

The Mexican video shows people cutting in completely the wrong place for a quick kill. It seemed to be more to paralyse and not too effective at that. Although it was chosen to be the most horrific possible expert and so probably the least skilled person they saw.

Memnon624 · Feb 5, 2009

Have you checked Xenophon's On Horsemanship to see if he covers putting a wounded horse down? I don't have a copy handy at the moment, or I'd look myself. Xenophon is pretty much the bible of how horses were treated and trained in ancient Greece.

Best,

Scott

c.e.lawson · Feb 5, 2009

Smiling Ted - That's a nice sentiment, but he's also injured himself here, and so the way I envision the scene is that he does what he needs to do to take care of the matter as quickly and cleanly as possible. I may use valerian in another scene with humans, though. Thanks!

Leva - good story! I'm going to avoid stunning the horse, I think. Thank you for the info.

Yikes, Horserider! I don't think I could force myself to watch a video like that. I'm still leaning towards plunging the sword into the jugular groove.

veinglory - I KNEW I'd have nightmares if I watched that. Thank you.

Memnon624 - I looked through an on line version of Xenophon's On Horsemanship through the Gutenberg Project. Excellent stuff I can definitely use elsewhere but unfortunately no section on putting a horse down. Great suggestion - thanks so much.

I think I'm going to email a college professor who might know or who can point me in the right direction to verify.

c.e.

BlueMouse · Feb 5, 2009

I think the jugular groove would be the best idea, for sure. The others are right; it's really hard to stun a horse with the equipment you've described. And make sure he avoids not just the legs but the body when the horse goes down; horses are heavy, and your protag doesn't want to get stuck underneath him.

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